I can't learn Inform
Justin Butterfield
I read the whole Inform manual all the way through and didn't
understand most of it, it seemed like parts of it were missing,
anywhay, I read that and the tutorials and don't understand it,
could someone tell me what to do?
P.S. I was using the PDF version of the designers manual
THanks,
Justin
Jason Hebron
>Hi,
> I read the whole Inform manual all the way through and didn't
>understand most of it, it seemed like parts of it were missing,
>anywhay, I read that and the tutorials and don't understand it,
>could someone tell me what to do?
Hmm, summarise a 200 page manual in one post? Too easy - I'll do it
in a haiku :)
start with ancient ruins
then compile it bit by bit
each failure reveals
>P.S. I was using the PDF version of the designers manual
> THanks,
> Justin
corollary: As long as you understand how to compile games and run
them, the best way to learn is to use either the ruins example, or
your own similar set up. Start with one location and one object and
observe how different features are added. Try your own, then figure
out why they don't work. If you're anything like me, this will take a
little while, but when you're done, you're richer for it.
Once you get the hang of some of the structure of the language, things
will proceed nicely. Of course, you'll need to use the manual as a
reference - but to begin with, just focus on the first few chapters -
the later bits get more specific and unless you have a brain like a
sponge (mine is more like a dishrag) they're of more use when you're
trying to implement specific objects/situations.
If you have any specific questions - just ask here on r.a.i-f or (if
they're fairly simple) mail me and I'll give you them benefit of my
not very extensive experience.
Tangle
bout...@wcc.govt.nz
PS. I'm still in the process of writing my own manual for
non-programmers - but it's a big job. As it currently only expands
when I discover something new for my competion entry, I wouldn't hold
your breath :).
Andrew C. Plotkin
> ad...@rgfn.epcc.edu (Justin Butterfield) wrote:
> > I read the whole Inform manual all the way through and didn't
> >understand most of it, it seemed like parts of it were missing,
> >anywhay, I read that and the tutorials and don't understand it,
> >could someone tell me what to do?
There have been many complaints about the Inform manuals. It's hard
for beginners to get started with them. Unfortunately, everyone who
reads them either A) gives up or B) becomes proficient at Inform on
their own, and thus loses the ability to explain it to other
beginners. :-)
> Hmm, summarise a 200 page manual in one post? Too easy - I'll do it
> in a haiku :)
>
> start with ancient ruins
> then compile it bit by bit
> each failure reveals
Pretty much. There's a lot of other sample code on ftp.gmd.de. But the
only way you'll get a hold of it is to create a room, put the player
in it, make that work, add an object, and continue from there.
Whenever you get stuck, read the relevant chapter of the manual, and
the two following chapters. :-)
> PS. I'm still in the process of writing my own manual for
> non-programmers - but it's a big job. As it currently only expands
> when I discover something new for my competion entry, I wouldn't hold
> your breath :).
There's also a Web-based Inform tutorial, which I have forgotten the
URL of.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Christopher E. Forman
: There have been many complaints about the Inform manuals. It's hard
: for beginners to get started with them. Unfortunately, everyone who
: reads them either A) gives up or B) becomes proficient at Inform on
: their own, and thus loses the ability to explain it to other
: beginners. :-)
A great many of the complaints about Inform's manual are, IMHO,
unjustified. Graham really has done an excellent job with them. The
problem with writing I-F is that you have to learn everything at once --
you need to learn how to create rooms and objects, handle compass
directions, build actions, create puzzles, set up timers and daemons,
develop NPCs, and plan a scoring system. Admittedly, this isn't all
done at the same time, but until a programmer learns maybe half of these
things, there's really not much he/she can do.
: > Hmm, summarise a 200 page manual in one post? Too easy - I'll do it
: > in a haiku :)
: >
: > start with ancient ruins
: > then compile it bit by bit
: > each failure reveals
I rather like "mostly harmless" myself.
: Pretty much. There's a lot of other sample code on ftp.gmd.de. But the
: only way you'll get a hold of it is to create a room, put the player
: in it, make that work, add an object, and continue from there.
: Whenever you get stuck, read the relevant chapter of the manual, and
: the two following chapters. :-)
Precisely. And start with something simple first, rather than trying to
write a huge game at the outset. (The competition is great for short games
of this sort.)
And if you're stuck on anything specific, you can always ask here. (All
of us, even Graham to a certain extent, were Inform newbies once. Many
of us still are.)
: There's also a Web-based Inform tutorial, which I have forgotten the
: URL of.
Hmm...it's at http://www.cam.cl.ac.uk/gdr11/somethinerother.html. Do
a websearch on "Inform programming" and you'll find it.
--
C.E. Forman cef...@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu
Read the I-F e-zine XYZZYnews, at ftp.gmd.de:/if-archive/magazines/xyzzynews,
or on the Web at http://www.interport.net/~eileen/design/xyzzynews.html
George Caswell
> Hi,
> I read the whole Inform manual all the way through and didn't
> understand most of it, it seemed like parts of it were missing,
> anywhay, I read that and the tutorials and don't understand it,
> could someone tell me what to do?
>
Join the club... <g>
Seriously: It helps to have some familiarity with programming and
object-oriented programming theory. Inform doesn't make the claim of
AGT- that anyone can do it with just a little imagination. I think
Inform tries, and in some ways succeeds, some ways possibly fails, to be
a complex, but very powerful and versatile tool for writing adventures.
I'm a programmer with experience in Pascal/ OOP Pascal and C, and it's
taken me about a month to learn what little I know so far. At this
point, I'm just starting to understand the basic techniques used to
create complex devices (IE anything that performs any sort of interaction
beyond simple responses to the basic verb set..), new verbs, etc... but I'm
still not that good. (I'm hoping I will be good at it by this summer,
and that my entry for the IF contest will be ready and cool)
I guess the best way to start is to try working on something small.
Start with the included Inform 'empty room' source. Put objects in the
room. Compile the source and see what you've made. Pick an object that
doesn't behave the way you like (for example, create an object, and call
it a light switch. If you don't define it any more than that, it will
just be a light switch that you can pick up or drop, but not turn on or
off... use the attributes static and switchable, and it will be stuck in
place and switchable. Then you could use before and after rules to make
the light switch turn on or off the lights in the room.. example:
(supposing you have a game with one room, called hall)
Object light_switch "light switch" hall
with name "light" "lights" "switch",
description "It's a light switch",
before [;
SwitchOn: give parent(self) light;
SwitchOff: give parent(self) ~light;
],
after [;
SwitchOn: "Click!";
SwitchOff: "Click!";
],
has static switchable;
This will create a simple light switch. Note that with the default name
parsing, you will be able to identify this object by any combination of the
words "light", "switch", or "lights" (so "lights light lights switch
light" would identify the light switch at runtime.. there are ways
around this. See the inform manual about Parse_Name and changing
ParseNoun.)
The before rules are fairly simple here - I think they might actually
work. <g> The idea is that before you switch the switch on, the switch
will give the light attribute to the room (turning the lights on).
Before you turn it off, it takes the light away.
Implement things, simple things for a while: With luck you will be
able to make some things, and -not- be able to make some others: So you
will learn as you implement the little challenges..
BTW- As a matter of convention and courtesy, place the tag [Inform]
in your message subject when you post Inform related questions. (Same
goes for [TADS], [AGT], etc... some people want to filter out such
messages, and this is the easiest way.
....T...I...M...B...U...K...T...U... ____________________________________
.________________ _/>_ _______......[George Caswell, CS '99. 4 more info ]
<___ ___________// __/<___ /......[http://the-eye.res.wpi.edu/~timbuktu]
...//.<>._____..<_ >./ ____/.......[Member LnL+SOMA, sometimes artist, ]
..//./>./ /.__/ /./ <___________.[writer,builder.sysadmin of the-eye ]
.//.</.</</</.<_ _/.<_____________/.[____________________________________]
</.............</...................
Kenneth Fair
(Christopher E. Forman) wrote:
>Andrew C. Plotkin (erky...@CMU.EDU) wrote:
>: There have been many complaints about the Inform manuals. It's hard
>: for beginners to get started with them. Unfortunately, everyone who
>: reads them either A) gives up or B) becomes proficient at Inform on
>: their own, and thus loses the ability to explain it to other
>: beginners. :-)
>
>A great many of the complaints about Inform's manual are, IMHO,
>unjustified. Graham really has done an excellent job with them. The
>problem with writing I-F is that you have to learn everything at once --
>you need to learn how to create rooms and objects, handle compass
>directions, build actions, create puzzles, set up timers and daemons,
>develop NPCs, and plan a scoring system. Admittedly, this isn't all
>done at the same time, but until a programmer learns maybe half of these
>things, there's really not much he/she can do.
I'll speak as one who is currently learning Inform. (Just started two days
ago!) Learning Inform is like learning any other programming language;
you have to learn about 3/4 of the language sorta all at once. It's
very important to start very very small and build on to that core bit
by bit.
I'd heard a number of complaints about Graham's manual before I started.
I've found them to be mostly unjustified myself. I must add the
disclaimer that I'm not a complete programming novice. I have sorta
taught myself C/C++ and taken a course in object-oriented programming
using Scheme (a LISP derivative). While I'm certainly no programming
whiz, I at least understand most of the concepts of OO and know basic
C syntax.
The one thing that is maybe a bit misleading is the exercises. I tried
to do the first few and found I couldn't. The reason was of course
that they often made use of tricks that weren't really covered until
later in the manual. But then I stopped trying to solve the exercises.
Instead, I tried to figure out in my mind what the solution might sorta
look like, without worrying about crossing all of the i's and dotting
the t's (or vice versa), and instead used the answers as more code
examples to tear apart and decipher.
I have a feeling that the manual will be more valuable to me as time
progresses, since Graham seems to have included many practical problems
and their solutions in the manual (how to code a light source, for
example).
Actually, the biggest problem I have with the manual right now is that
I haven't printed it out yet.
>: Pretty much. There's a lot of other sample code on ftp.gmd.de. But the
>: only way you'll get a hold of it is to create a room, put the player
>: in it, make that work, add an object, and continue from there.
>: Whenever you get stuck, read the relevant chapter of the manual, and
>: the two following chapters. :-)
>
>Precisely. And start with something simple first, rather than trying to
>write a huge game at the outset. (The competition is great for short games
>of this sort.)
I just took some place that I knew (my alma mater, Rice University),
drew a map of it, and started coding locations. I just took the "Ruins"
code from the manual and substituted my own description and voila!
Instant Main Quadrangle. Then I thought I'd add the hedges, so I
took the mushroom, changed it to "hedges", and boom! There they are.
Then I added a location, and another, and another.
Then I got ambitious. I thought I'd add a routine to have a random
message appear when you cross the street from one location to another.
So I created a function CrossStreet, had it pick a random message like,
"You wave to a friend as you cross the street," and had n_to, etc., call
it before they returned the place being traveled to.
Actually, I think what I'm going to do is create the whole map first.
Just make it more of a wandering travelogue. First the rooms, then
a few static objects, then some stuff to pick up and drop, maybe a
backpack, maybe put in a couple of doors to open and close, a key or two,
and so on. Then I'll try playing around with light sources. (Right
now my player is glowing!) Then I'll code a squirrel. A nice, simple,
stays in one place and only does a couple of things squirrel.
All along the way, I'm trying to throw in my bits of knowledge about Rice
that I got as a tour guide. A joke here, a humorous reference there.
Maybe throw in an "xyzzy" verb just to learn how to change the grammar.
Perhaps then I'll put in a simple "find x object and use it at y place"
puzzle. I'll leave NPCs for last.
The nice thing about Inform programming is that the libraries give you
and amazingly complex world right out of the box. I can already walk
around, look at stuff, climb a couple of things, save, quit, and restore
without much effort on my part at all. Once you get the hang of looking
at the program as an exception to the default rules, it makes the problem
much easier to deal with in your mind. You just have to think, what
do I want this to do special?
It also makes it easier to look at other source code. Generally, most
of the "normal" exceptions you want to do have been done by someone
else and can be referred to in their code. Plus, because of the
object oriented nature of Inform, you can get quite a lot out of
20-30 lines of code.
Anyway, expect to be hearing more from me (probably pathetic newbie
questions) in the near future!
Ken
--
KEN FAIR - U. Chicago Law | Power Mac! | Net since '90 | Net.cop
kjf...@midway.uchicago.edu | CABAL(tm) Member | I'm w/in McQ - R U?
"I'm sorry to have written such a long letter. I did not have
time to write a short one." - George Bernard Shaw
Kenneth Fair
I forgot to add that the one main problem I have with Inform is the
use of UK vs. US English. I don't know if this is possible, but
could "Initialise" have a synonym, "Initialize"?
--
KEN FAIR - U. Chicago Law | Power Mac! | Net since '90 | Net.cop
kjf...@midway.uchicago.edu | CABAL(tm) Member | I'm w/in McQ - R U?
Technology is a way of organizing the universe so that man
doesn't have to experience it. --Max Frisch
George Caswell
> heb...@matai.vuw.ac.nz (Jason Hebron) writes:
>
> There have been many complaints about the Inform manuals. It's hard
> for beginners to get started with them. Unfortunately, everyone who
> reads them either A) gives up or B) becomes proficient at Inform on
> their own, and thus loses the ability to explain it to other
> beginners. :-)
>
Maybe I'm a rare case then--- I didn't give up, but I'm not entirely
proficient... maybe I'm in Implementor Purgatory...
>PRAY TO HIGHER IMPLEMENTORS
(!O ye higher implentors, bless this, my Inform code, that with it
!I may sweep the IF competition for your glory, and to thine be the
!Quendor, and the Frobozz, and the Treasure forever, amen...)
PAZ SALGADO
I have just started to read this newsgroup yesterday and a very
large lot of questions and answers talk about Inform (I expect to write
it in correct way). I suppouse that Inform is a very popular, and useful
object-oriented language to develope I-Fs.
How or Where can I obtain more information about Inform?
Over which platform does Inform run? Any? PC? Unix? or what?
Thank for all...
Meliton Rodriguez, from 115 room
Gareth Rees
> I read the whole Inform manual all the way through and didn't
> understand most of it, it seemed like parts of it were missing,
> anywhay, I read that and the tutorials and don't understand it, could
> someone tell me what to do?
Start writing a game. When you get stuck, post to rec.arts.int-fiction
describing what you're trying to do that won't work. Someone will
answer your question. After four or five rounds of this, you'll get the
idea...
--
Gareth Rees
Kenneth Fair
>Hello!
>
> I have just started to read this newsgroup yesterday and a very
>large lot of questions and answers talk about Inform (I expect to write
>it in correct way). I suppouse that Inform is a very popular, and useful
>object-oriented language to develope I-Fs.
>
> How or Where can I obtain more information about Inform?
>
> Over which platform does Inform run? Any? PC? Unix? or what?
I suggest looking at the IF Authoring FAQ [Parte Corporeal] for lots
of answers on how to write IF. (*What* to write is covered in the
[Parte Spiritual].) If it has expired on your news server, I think
you can find a copy on the Interactive Fiction archive, ftp.gmd.de.
Here's a quick summary about Inform. Inform is a freeware (under the
GNU Public License, if I'm not mistaken) object-oriented programming
language for creating Interactive Fiction. There are others, TADS
being its main rival. There are several Inform compilers, of which
I know ones exist for Unix, DOS, and Macintosh. These compilers
take Inform source and produce Z-Machine code, the same code produced
by Infocom. This code can then be played using a Z-code interpreter,
of which many free versions exist for lots of platforms. The Z-code
produced by Inform is therefore effortlessly portable to any machine
for which a Z-interpreter has been written.
The best part about Inform (and TADS as well) is that much of the
work of writing interactive fiction has already been done for you.
The compiler comes with libraries that contain a parser, a whole set
of predefined actions, and knowledge about much of the universe.
You basically only need to define the exceptions to the general rules.
You can create an amazingly complex world with only a few hundred lines
of code.
I would suggest, if you haven't already, that you get a copy of a
a Z-interpreter for your machine (JZIP for DOS and MaxZIP for Macintosh
are both well regarded). Then get a couple of story files and play
them (they have filenames that end with ".z3" or ".z5" or ".z8"). If
you have time, I'd suggest the large but masterful "Curses", written
by Graham Nelson, the author of Inform. This will (hopefully) be fun,
but it will also give you some experience with the format of Inform
games and how the system works. Post questions about the games
themselves to rec.games.int-fiction.
Then, once you've played around with it for a while, get the Inform
compiler for your machine. Make sure you get the documentation:
o The Inform Designer's Manual - tutorial and language specification
for Inform.
o The Inform Technical Manual - additional technical Inform details
o The Specification of the Z-Machine - the "assembly" language
o The Craft of Adventure - Tips on writing _good_ interactive fiction
Of these, you definitely need the Designer's Manual right away to
learn the language. Go through the manual step by step and try out
the example code as you go along. Be sure to start simple, with just
one room and a couple of simple objects. Get a bunch of other source
code and steal ideas from that.
If you have any more questions about Inform or how to use it, post
them here in rec.arts.int-fiction with a subject line that starts
with "[Inform]" so people can filter your question properly.
Good luck, and happy Infocomming!
Ken
--
KEN FAIR - U. Chicago Law | Power Mac! | Net since '90 | Net.cop
kjf...@midway.uchicago.edu | CABAL(tm) Member | I'm w/in McQ - R U?
George Caswell
> Hello!
>
> I have just started to read this newsgroup yesterday and a very
> large lot of questions and answers talk about Inform (I expect to write
> it in correct way). I suppouse that Inform is a very popular, and useful
> object-oriented language to develope I-Fs.
>
> How or Where can I obtain more information about Inform?
>
go to the if-archive on ftp.gmd.de.. there's an inform directory.
> Over which platform does Inform run? Any? PC? Unix? or what?
>
The compiler is portable source, also with binaries provided for a
bunch of platforms. I know for a fact that it runs under Dos and Unix..
(Use Unix.. Use Unix...) The games compiled with Inform will run on
practically any system, including certain pocket organizers.. (It
compiles code in the same format used by Infocom, so if you have a
working infocom interpreter, you can run inform v3-v5 games, and if it's
modified to do so it will also run the larger v8 games...)
Ralph Hilton (aka Lazarus)
>
>>
> Maybe I'm a rare case then--- I didn't give up, but I'm not entirely
>proficient... maybe I'm in Implementor Purgatory...
>>PRAY TO HIGHER IMPLEMENTORS
> (!O ye higher implentors, bless this, my Inform code, that with it
> !I may sweep the IF competition for your glory, and to thine be the
> !Quendor, and the Frobozz, and the Treasure forever, amen...)
ROFL!
Ha ha ha ha ha hah ahahaaahahahah!
-=[*]=-
"NYN is coming!" -- My entry in the '96 IF contest.
Developed with TADS and World Class
-=[*]=-
Laurel Halbany
>There's also a Web-based Inform tutorial, which I have forgotten the
>URL of.
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/gdr11/inform/index.html
I'm collecting Inform-related resources for my Web list (my page can
be found at http://www.rdrop.com/users/mythago/), so please send along
information about any you know of.
JJF
timb...@the-eye.res.wpi.edu (George Caswell) waffled about:
> On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Justin Butterfield wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I read the whole Inform manual all the way through and didn't
> > understand most of it, it seemed like parts of it were missing,
> > anywhay, I read that and the tutorials and don't understand it,
> > could someone tell me what to do?
> >
> Join the club... <g>
>
> Seriously: It helps to have some familiarity with programming and
> object-oriented programming theory. Inform doesn't make the claim of
> AGT- that anyone can do it with just a little imagination. I think
> Inform tries, and in some ways succeeds, some ways possibly fails, to be
> a complex, but very powerful and versatile tool for writing adventures.
Errr - I think you're turning people off here! Familiarity with programming
is a great boon with Inform but I don't think detailed knowledge of
object-oriented programming theory is vital. I'd personally advise people
to take the more intuitive approach - that the "Inform" world is, like ours,
made of lots of individual objects, perhaps combined into one "super-object";
a bottle and a bottle cap being an example.
The "programmer" would define the world by creating objects, as if he/she
had an infinite amount of clay. These "clay" objects would react to default
rules and laws (e.g. the law of gravity!), but if you wanted them to do
anything special then you would have to add extra bits (code) to make them
actually do this. (e.g. it's no good expecting to be able to watch Doctor
Who on your clay television set if you haven't actually put a CRT inside
it!)
But that's only my opinion. What do I know?
--
*******************************************************************************
* Email: jai...@spuddy.mew.co.uk * The internet merely allows you to *
* J.J.Farm...@cs.bham.ac.uk * look foolish in front of a lot *
* WWW: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jjf/ * more people. *
Joe Mason
JH>Hmm, summarise a 200 page manual in one post? Too easy - I'll do it
JH>in a haiku :)
JH>start with ancient ruins
JH>then compile it bit by bit
JH>each failure reveals
:-) Okay, smart guy: now let's see you do it in a sonnet!
Joe
-- Coming soon: "In the End", a work of Interactive Fiction --
-- More about the 1996 IF Contest at rec.arts.int-fiction --
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9550 þI am Pentium of Borg...division is Futile...you will be Approximated
Julian Arnold
<mailto:kjf...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> In article <316A64...@tid.es>, PAZ SALGADO <ja...@tid.es> wrote:
>
> >Hello!
> >
> > I have just started to read this newsgroup yesterday and a very
> >large lot of questions and answers talk about Inform (I expect to write
> >it in correct way). I suppouse that Inform is a very popular, and useful
> >object-oriented language to develope I-Fs.
> >
> > How or Where can I obtain more information about Inform?
> >
What Ken said is right. Just to expand slightly, the IF Authoring FAQ, which
is posted to this group is available from
<ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/rec.arts.int-fiction/FAQ>. It gives an overview
of all the authoring systems currently available from the if-archive, as well
as a fair bit of general info relevant to this group. Also, pick up a copy
of the "Which authoring system is better?" FAQ, which contains expert
analysis and criticism of a lot of systems--
<ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/info/whichsys.zip>. In fact, grab everything
from this directory, as it's good stuff. There's also a fair amount on the
WWW (details in the IF Authoring FAQ). Finally post your remaining questions
to this group.
Jools
George Caswell
> In article <Pine.LNX.3.91.96040...@the-eye.res.wpi.edu>,
> timb...@the-eye.res.wpi.edu (George Caswell) waffled about:
>
> > Seriously: It helps to have some familiarity with programming and
> > object-oriented programming theory. Inform doesn't make the claim of
> > AGT- that anyone can do it with just a little imagination. I think
> > Inform tries, and in some ways succeeds, some ways possibly fails, to be
> > a complex, but very powerful and versatile tool for writing adventures.
>
> Errr - I think you're turning people off here! Familiarity with programming
So be it... it's just my humble opinion-- I feel it takes
considerable skill and familiarity with the library to produce much with
Inform.. if people lack the skill or can't learn the library, they can
use two-word AGT games...
> is a great boon with Inform but I don't think detailed knowledge of
> object-oriented programming theory is vital. I'd personally advise people
I don't think it's vital. I think it's very helpful to be
capable of programming in structured, unstructured, and/or object
oriented programming.. Inform uses the styles of all three. Being
familiar with such programming is more useful in the sense that you know
how to manage it than in the sense that you wouldn't be able to pick it
up otherwise... I'm not saying someone who's never programmed before
couldn't write Inform, I'm saying that, if they're not familiar with the
creation of algorithms and the various idioms of OOP, they're going to
have a hell of a time figuring out which object should handle the rules,
or how to make anything complex... And if you're familiar with OOP it
certainly helps with the library calls, which at first seem to make
little sense at all.
Like I said: I believe Inform is a programmer's tool for writing
advenures. For a simpler approach you could go AGT, but the end product
would reflect that decision...
> to take the more intuitive approach - that the "Inform" world is, like ours,
> made of lots of individual objects, perhaps combined into one "super-object";
> a bottle and a bottle cap being an example.
>
Maybe... but what happens when you twist off the cap? is it a
condition of the bottle, the cap, or the soda inside when the shaken
contents spray across the room as pressure is released? When you try
screwing on a cap that doesn't fit, is it the bottle or the cap which
bars you from doing so?
Laurel Halbany
> I guess the best way to start is to try working on something small.
I find it also helps to steal code. :*
By that, I mean rather than beating yourself to death trying to figure
out code to (say) make a two-way door, look at the source available on
ftp.gmd.de and the Manual to see how others did it. Then you can try
modifying the code, trying new things to see how it works, etc.
The Manual is actually pretty good, but there's no substitute for
sitting down and writing code to learn.
The Ur-Grue
: Like I said: I believe Inform is a programmer's tool for writing
: would reflect that decision...
I myself have some, but very little, experience in C and Pascal.
I only started learning Inform a few days ago and I believe I could already
make a complete, albeit very simple (ie find this object and use it there)
game.
I agree that Inform is far harder to learn than, say, AGT, but I
think it is not inherently too hard. the way it works is rather simple,
unless we're talking about complex NPCs/objects which aren't necessary
for a good game, although they help make the world more appealing.
I think the main problem with learning inform is the manual.
It's very good, I think, but it's not too comprehensive, and it seems
to be aimed at programmers who wish to make complex games.
It would be great if someone wrote a inform manual aimed at
people like myself, that gave lots of examples, and plenty of help
in creating a more or less 'normal' game. right now it deals a lot
with things which i don't understnad and haven't any use for, either.
a more comprehensive glossary including not only all the attributes,
properties, etc, but also a small example of how its used would help me
greatly, as right now most of my problems occur in wording and punctuationm,
not concepts or even how to do something, but rather how to write it.
: Maybe... but what happens when you twist off the cap? is it a
: condition of the bottle, the cap, or the soda inside when the shaken
: contents spray across the room as pressure is released? When you try
: screwing on a cap that doesn't fit, is it the bottle or the cap which
: bars you from doing so?
This is perhaps an example of where the current inform manual
is very good. it explains this sort of complex object very well (from a
programmers point of view, but then again, coding smoething like that
isnt easily explained without having to resort to programming).
the way i would code something like that (which is completely
adequate for your normal game), is simply a bottle that can be opened
or closed.
Cardinal Teulbachs
> It would be great if someone wrote a inform manual aimed at
>people like myself, that gave lots of examples, and plenty of help
>in creating a more or less 'normal' game. right now it deals a lot
>with things which i don't understnad and haven't any use for, either.
The best primer is sweat.
Here's how the "experts" learned to program i-f:
Code
Compile
Playtest
Swear
Code
Compile
Playtest
Swear
...
--Cardinal T
[ I mean, what the hell kind of villain thwarts the hero's ]
[ progress with soup cans in the kitchen pantry? ]
[ ]
[ --Russ Bryan ]
Gareth Rees
> It would be great if someone wrote a inform manual aimed at people
> like myself, that gave lots of examples, and plenty of help in
> creating a more or less 'normal' game. right now it deals a lot with
> things which i don't understnad and haven't any use for, either.
I wrote a tutorial aimed at people who've read the Designer's Manual and
want to see how a game is constructed:
<http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/gdr11/inform/tutorial.html>
You should also look at the example games. There are many features
illustrated perfectly by existing bits of code:
<http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/gdr11/inform/examples.html>
<ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/source/inform/>
<ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/programming/inform/examples/>
--
Gareth Rees