First Person adventure games?
Neil K. Guy
Anyone out there with opinions on having the text descriptions in
text adventures being in the first person instead of the traditional
second person? I was thinking of the normal text adventure dissonance
between issuing commands to the computer, which responds with what you
can see and such. So instead of:
>north
Large Chamber
You stand within the echoing darkness of a huge chamber. The high
ceiling is barely visible in the gloom, and you can hear the sound of
your bare feet slapping cold marble.
you might get:
>north
Large Chamber
I'm standing within the echoing darkness of a huge chamber. I can
barely see the high ceiling through the gloom, and I can hear the
sound of my bare feet slapping cold marble.
You'd thus be commanding this sort of roving presence in the game,
who reports back what he or she sees. The character could be
completely obedient or maybe partly autonomous. It could talk back,
for instance:
>down
There's no damn way I'm jumping into that pit of molten lava, buddy!
Does anyone have any comments on this idea? I think it's interesting
and certainly makes a change from the traditional text IF style,
although I don't know if it would really fit the game I'm working on.
It would also solve that kind of weird dissonance between issuing
commands in the imperative and having responses in the second person.
Here you're just ordering the computer about! I suppose the second-
person thing really came from the original Adventure, which in turn
was influenced by role-playing games, wasn't it? The model of having
the game master or DM or whoever describe to the player what's up.
It's traditional but doesn't *have* to be like that.
- Neil K. (n_k...@sfu.ca)
David Rees
or not.
--Dave
Neil K. Guy
emotional impact of the game (if there is, in fact, one) would be
altered by a first person perspective?
Some people cite Trinity (yeah, I know it always comes up :) as a
game that people get quite into and feel squeamish about committing a
certain act in, because it's *them* in the game doing it. If you're
just sort of controlling a robot would it make a difference?
Another strength I can see with first person games concerns the
motive of the character. I've always been irritated by games that
describe how you're thinking and such. Some I can stand: "You suddenly
remember..." but some are obtrusive: "You feel a sudden twinge of
guilt for having done xxxx, and decide not to do it again...".
Obviously these are often barriers to prevent the player from doing
certain things outside the parameters of the game, but it can shatter
any illusion I think.
However with a first person game these blocks could be designed as
objections by the game entity itself. Somehow: "I don't want to do
that.." seems less annoying than the traditional adventure game
putting ideas into the player's head. Of course then you start getting
into how much autonomy the game entity has. Maybe it'll object to
certain things, but will it actively do stuff in order not to die or
can the player lead it to an obedient death? If it starves to death in
a room with food, or in a room with food next door, does that further
dent the illusion? You start getting into path seeking and perhaps
even kind of AI issues quickly.
Anyway, just some random thoughts...
- Neil K. (n_k...@sfu.ca)
Marc Sira
> Scott Adams' games did this. Can't say as if it really made any difference
>or not.
It might have done if they did it consistently. They wavered between first
and second person in an annoying way, not that it stopped me from playing
them all.
--
Marc Sira |
aa...@freenet.carleton.ca | "Your god drinks...p-p-peach nectar."
t...@micor.ocunix.on.ca '
David Librik
>In article <2cgkka$p...@news.bu.edu>, David Rees <re...@csa.bu.edu> wrote:
>> Scott Adams' games did this. Can't say as if it really made any difference
>>or not.
Yep. This was common in many early adventures. The following excerpts
from the documentation to Lance Micklus' Dog Star Adventure (Softside,
May 1979), typifies their rationale:
"I, your computer, am your puppet. I'm hidden aboard the Princess'
ship.... Sometimes you may only have enough time to give me one
command, which if not the appropriate action to take, could easily
end the game for both of us.
I understand ordinary English in one- or two-word commands. If
you want me to go somewhere, just give me a direction. I can GET
or DROP something just by your typing GET or DROP plus the name of
the object.... Other words I understand include, HELP, INVENTORY,
LOOK, SCORE, and QUIT. In addition to these, there are many other
words in my vocabulary. The fun of playing ADVENTURE is not only
trying to figure out what to do, but how to explain it to me."
This whole "puppet" concept makes the real relationship between the player
and the game a lot clearer. It's been lost with the shift to second-person
("you") descriptions, which try to increase the sense of "presence", but
decrease the feeling of realism when you are told "You can't do that!"
On the other hand, Infocom's SUSPENDED took this idea to its limit...
>Marc Sira |
>aa...@freenet.carleton.ca | "Your god drinks...p-p-peach nectar."
>t...@micor.ocunix.on.ca '
^ Where is this line from?
- David Librik
lib...@cs.Berkeley.edu
Tom O Breton
> Anyone out there with opinions on having the text descriptions in
> text adventures being in the first person instead of the traditional
> second person?
I once played a game in the first person plural. The thing was that
there was a sort of demon (with a funny bad attitude) that accompanied
you everywhere, and you would tell it what to do and it would comply or
argue. It would say (For instance) "Why did we do that?" after it didn't
like something you did.
It was interesting, but a bit too convoluted a device for
general-purpose use.
Tom
--
The Tom spreads its huge, scaly wings and soars into the sky...
(t...@world.std.com, TomB...@delphi.com)
Adam Justin Thornton
_my_ games in the first person, but it never mattered a whole lot.
Something that really bugs me is the way hunger is handled, usually, in IF.
I know that I can go for 24 hours, without food, without getting
significantly weaker. I even did it while carrying a 40 pound pack in
Paris once (why I chose to starve myself in Paris is another story).
So why do IF characters get hungry at 2PM, get _REALLY_ hungry by 2:30,
bitch and moan loudly at 3:15, and then keel over dead at 3:30? It tends
to be the same way with sleep--don't tell me IF designers have never pulled
an all-nighter!
Adam
--
ad...@rice.edu | These are not Rice's opinions. Nor are they those of IS,
the Honor Council, Tony Gorry, God, or Kibo. They're mine. Got it? Good.
"The object of life is to make sure you die a weird death."--Thomas Pynchon
Save the Choad! | Keep electronic privacy legal; support EFF. | 64,928 | Fnord
Erik Max Francis
> Anyone out there with opinions on having the text descriptions in
> text adventures being in the first person instead of the traditional
> second person? I was thinking of the normal text adventure dissonance
Something like this was done with SUSPENDED, wasn't it? The personas of
the robots that you ordered around _did_ report back in the first person
from their perspective, as I recall.
Erik Max Francis, &tSftDotIotE ...!apple!uuwest!max m...@west.darkside.com __
USMail: 1070 Oakmont Dr. #1 San Jose, CA 95117 ICBM: 37 20 N 121 53 W / \
-)(- Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt. All things that are, are lights. -)(- \__/
R. Dominick
> I once played a game in the first person plural. The thing was that
> there was a sort of demon (with a funny bad attitude) that accompanied
> you everywhere, and you would tell it what to do and it would comply or
> argue. It would say (For instance) "Why did we do that?" after it didn't
> like something you did.
...this kind of reminds me of a half-lame graphics adventure I bought for
$1.26 a long time ago (about the same time I acquired all of the early
Magnetic Scrolls/Level 9 games in three-packs for the same price... never
did finish Snowball 9 or any of it's sequels! Tough games...), called "I,
Damaino" (sp?), based on the books by R. A. MacAvoy... in the game, you
were controlling the actions of the main character, but (almost) all of the
text was written from the viewpoint of his/her dog familiar. (Why, I'm not
sure; the book was from Damaino's viewpoint exclusively! I think they just
thought it was a neat device.)
Playing the game was kind of neat, but it did remove you from feeling
empathy for the main character a bit. Some of the responses were quite
funny, especially when you got rude with the dog. (Hey, when you're
frustrated, you'll try almost anything... [pun intended, I guess])
I (physically) lost the game a long time ago, however.
If anyone knows where I can get a copy of it, it'd be most appreciated...
--
don't be alarmed, it's only a kiss
Greg Ewing
Does anyone remember the TV series called (as far as I remember)
"Search", in which there was an undercover agent in communication
with headquarters by video, due to a camera hidden in his ring.
That kind of scenario could translate very well into an IF story,
where you are the commander giving orders to the agent. If the
link is audio-only, it becomes very naturally text-based as well.
The style of player would need to be somewhat different in some
cases. E.g. it would make sense for the player to ask the agent
questions:
> Where are you?
I'm in what looks like a deserted warehouse. It's fairly
dark, and it's full of large packing crates.
> Can you hear anything?
I can hear a rustling sound... It seems to be coming from
somewhere up in the rafters.
> Can you see any way of getting up there?
Yes, there's a ladder attached to the wall.
> Climb the ladder.
Etc... Could pose some interesting problems in natural language
parsing that IF hasn't tackled before.
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+
University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a |
Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of Japan Inc.|
gr...@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+
James Wallis
> Another possible use for the first-person mode:
>
> Does anyone remember the TV series called (as far as I remember)
> "Search", in which there was an undercover agent in communication
> with headquarters by video, due to a camera hidden in his ring.
>
> That kind of scenario could translate very well into an IF story,
> where you are the commander giving orders to the agent. If the
> link is audio-only, it becomes very naturally text-based as well.
>
> The style of player would need to be somewhat different in some
> cases. E.g. it would make sense for the player to ask the agent
> questions:
>
> > Where are you?
>
> I'm in what looks like a deserted warehouse. It's fairly
> dark, and it's full of large packing crates.
>
> > Can you hear anything?
>
> I can hear a rustling sound... It seems to be coming from
> somewhere up in the rafters.
>
> > Can you see any way of getting up there?
>
> Yes, there's a ladder attached to the wall.
>
> > Climb the ladder.
>
> Etc... Could pose some interesting problems in natural language
> parsing that IF hasn't tackled before.
Plus also the problem of believability -- somehow "There's a guard ahead of
me. He's spotted me and is about to shoot me" loses the dramatic tension it
ought to have. On the other hand, if you could build some personality into
the person who's supposed to be reporting back to you, that could be very
amusing: tell him to climb one too many electric fences and he'll quit on
you, or drop his microphone into a tank of piranha or something.
--
James Wallis
(ja...@wonder.demon.co.uk++++Writer/Editor++++The Wonderful Pig of Knowledge)
sez: There is good sex and there is bad sex but chocolate is always chocolate
Greg Ewing
(James Wallis) writes:
|> Plus also the problem of believability -- somehow "There's a guard ahead of
|> me. He's spotted me and is about to shoot me" loses the dramatic tension it
|> ought to have.
There'd have to be quite a lot of autonomy built into the character
for situations like that - you hardly want to have to order your
agent to shoot back or dive for cover!
Also how to describe what's happening during such action. Over the
radio you'd probably hear something like "Hey, what are you doing
here?" - scuffle - scuffle - plod - BANG! BANG! BANG! - "Ooof..." -
thud. Would there be enough dramatic tension in that?
Player input into such encounters could be by means of advice
given previously:
> If you meet any guards, don't try to do anything
heroic - get under cover.
Okay.
> Take a look outside.
There's a guard out there... He's coming this way!
<scuffle - thump> I'm behind a drum - I don't think
he's seen me.
Or alternatively
> If you meet any guards, shoot first and ask questions
later.
Okay.
> Take a look outside.
There's a guard out there... <BANG! BANG!> Euuurgh...
<thud>
> How are you?
I'm hit in the leg... <sounds of agent being taken
captive...>
It would make for a very different style of game!
|> tell him to climb one too many electric fences and he'll quit on
|> you, or drop his microphone into a tank of piranha or something.
And think of all the things you could try threatening him with if
he refuses to obey your orders...
THE SHADOW LIVES
remember their names(the quote about going down spurred the memory but not
the name:) )
Signed The Shadow
ActiVision
"I'm in a vast cave filled with bat guano."
Implies a third person game. I.E. you are NOT in the game,
some one else is, and he's (she's) telling you about it.
William Volk
Neil K. Guy
Well, I could have written "Adventure Games with Written Descriptions
in the First Person, Thereby Implying a Third Party Aside from an
Omniscient Narrator" but I thought that the subject line I used was
pretty straightforward and easy to understand despite being
technically inaccurate.
So, Activision has a net.presence, eh? Hmm... I have no particular
opinions concerning the company, but I know *some* people do... hope
you have an asbestos mailer. :) (assuming we're talking the same
Activision here)
- Neil K. (n_k...@sfu.ca)
Fred the Wonder Worm
In article <neilg.7...@sfu.ca> ne...@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy) writes:
[ ... stuff deleted ... ]
> You'd thus be commanding this sort of roving presence in the game,
>who reports back what he or she sees. The character could be
>completely obedient or maybe partly autonomous. It could talk back,
>for instance:
>
>>down
>There's no damn way I'm jumping into that pit of molten lava, buddy!
I like this idea.
>down
There's no damn way I'm jumping into that pit of molten lava, buddy!
>it's an illusion
That don't look like no illusion to me!
>trust me. would I lie?
What about the time with that Wizard?
>that was an accident. how was I supposed to know his ferret was carnivorous?
Yeah, right. You knew all along.
>look, just do it, OK? It'll be all right.
Oh, all right. >AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH< You bastard.
>so long, sucker.
Cheers,
Geoff.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Bailey (Fred the Wonder Worm) | Programmer by trade --
ft...@cs.su.oz.au | Gameplayer by vocation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred the Wonder Worm
In article <CGqzp...@rice.edu> ad...@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton) writes:
>I never found that I/You perspective made much difference. I usually wrote
>_my_ games in the first person, but it never mattered a whole lot.
>
>Something that really bugs me is the way hunger is handled, usually, in IF.
>I know that I can go for 24 hours, without food, without getting
>significantly weaker. I even did it while carrying a 40 pound pack in
>Paris once (why I chose to starve myself in Paris is another story).
>
>So why do IF characters get hungry at 2PM, get _REALLY_ hungry by 2:30,
>bitch and moan loudly at 3:15, and then keel over dead at 3:30? It tends
>to be the same way with sleep--don't tell me IF designers have never pulled
>an all-nighter!
What they neglect to tell you is that you are a diabetic, and if you don't
eat you'll do something really strange which will probably kill you. Oh,
and you're also narcoleptic. Yeah, that's it. ;-)
Bob Newell
>remember their names(the quote about going down spurred the memory but not