Help a Newbie (Please!)
AngelGirl
games. I downloaded an Inform compiler thing and WinFrotz and
something called IFStory. I was basically wondering if anyone had some
hints on getting started. I know almost nothing about programming so
I'm kinda lost. So I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.
:)
-Laura
--
****************************************************
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The quiet words of the wise are more to be
heeded than the shouts of a ruler of fools.
-Ecclesiastes 10:6
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Jonadab the Unsightly One
<36212E74...@waymark.net>...
> I'm a teenager who loves IF and have decided to try writing my own
> games. I downloaded an Inform compiler thing and WinFrotz and
> something called IFStory. I was basically wondering if anyone had
some
> hints on getting started. I know almost nothing about programming
so
> I'm kinda lost. So I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks in
advance.
Get the Designer's Manual. It's virtually a tutorial, and it's
great.
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/infocom/compilers/inform5.5/manuals/
designers_manual.txt
(Or, if you don't like plain text, it's available in
other formats as well, same directory.)
-- jonadab
(email the above name at bright.net)
David Glasser
Of course, if you don't insist on using a buggy outdated version of
Inform (as friend Jonadab here does), try in:
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/infocom/compilers/inform6/manuals/
You can post any questions you want here at rec.arts.int-fiction.
Extra help can be found at ifMUD; see http://fovea.retina.net:4001/
Some information can be found at
http://onramp.uscom.com/~glasser/raiffaq/ This is the Frequently Asked
Questions list for this newsgroup. I'm in the middle of updating it;
the section on the various IF programming languages has not been updated
yet, though it is my project for this weekend.
--David Glasser, yay teenagers!
gla...@NOSPAMuscom.com | http://onramp.uscom.com/~glasser
DGlasser @ ifMUD : fovea.retina.net:4000 (webpage fovea.retina.net:4001)
Sadie Hawkins, official band of David Glasser: http://sadie.retina.net
"We take our icons very seriously in this class."
Stephen Griffiths
> .... have decided to try writing my own
> games. I downloaded an Inform compiler thing and WinFrotz and
> something called IFStory. I was basically wondering if anyone had some
> hints on getting started. I know almost nothing about programming so
> I'm kinda lost. So I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.
There's a tutorial and two beginner's guides for Inform accessible from
the Inform WWW page:
http://www.gnelson.demon.co.uk/inform.html
You'll also need the Inform "Designer's Manual" which you can get from
that site along with lots of other useful info.
I'm of the opinion (though maybe some other rai-f regulars may disagree
with me) that Inform is very difficult to learn if you have no
programming experience. By all means have a go at it if you wish but if
you feel Inform is overwhelming you - it is a very powerful and complex
programming system so this could happen - then you may wish to look at
some of the other I.F. systems available.
Of the other well-known systems, I think TADS and Hugo have similar
complexity to Inform while Alan and AGT are easier to learn.
I'm currently learning to write IF games in Alan. Alan is a modern
system but uses a much simpler language than TADS, Inform and Hugo. I
think it is the best choice for potential IF authors with little
programming experience. A WWW page for Alan is at:
http://www.pp.softlab.se/thomas.nilsson/alan/
AGT is an old system. It is probably the easiest of all to learn but not
widely used nowadays. There's a WWW page about AGT at:
http://netnow.micron.net/~jgoemmer/agt.html
As with IF games, the Interactive Fiction Archive is the most
comprehensive source for IF authoring software, manuals, FAQs etc:
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/
The latest FAQ for rec.arts.int-fiction can be obtained from:
http://onramp.uscom.com/~glasser/raiffaq/
I hope this information is useful. If you have any more questions, don't
hesitate to post them to the raif newsgroup (or email me, if you prefer,
if anything in this post needs clarification.)
Good luck writing your own IF. I think its a great, though time
consuming :-), hobby.
Regards,
SteveG.
s...@nojunk.xtra.co.nz
(remove nojunk. to reply via email)
Doeadeer3
In article <362164...@nojunk.xtra.co.nz>, Stephen Griffiths
<s...@nojunk.xtra.co.nz> writes:
>I'm of the opinion (though maybe some other rai-f regulars may disagree
>with me) that Inform is very difficult to learn if you have no
>programming experience.
Probably, since I am a programmer it is kind of hard for me to say. I looked at
Inform with programmer's eyes from the beginning. Also I know C.
But a newbie should really look first at contributed code (not manuals,
libraries and sample games) for all the systems: Inform, Tads, Alan, Hugo and
see what looks like something they can read/sort of understand from the
beginning. Manuals won't tell one if the format of the code is something they
will have an intuitive feel for.
Personal preference is the key, if you feel you already sort of understand some
code, your learning curve for that particular system will most likely be much
lower.
Doe :-)
Doe doea...@aol.com (formerly known as FemaleDeer)
****************************************************************************
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain
Jon Petersen
>
> I'm of the opinion (though maybe some other rai-f regulars may disagree
> with me) that Inform is very difficult to learn if you have no
> you feel Inform is overwhelming you - it is a very powerful and complex
> programming system so this could happen - then you may wish to look at
> some of the other I.F. systems available.
I don't agree. :) I got a D+ in the only C++ class I ever took (even
though I begged for a D++! har, har, I'm a funny one, matey!), but I can
find my way around Inform pretty well, especially with the occasional
aid of my august compatriots at r.a.i-f. C'mon--give yourselves a hand.
You deserve it. The lurkerized Graham Nelson also deserves credit for
writing a very easy-to-follow Designer's Manual, especially if you play
around with the RUINS example. Of course you could argue that I do have
programming experience, since in third grade I used to use Apple BASIC.
For example, I used Input A$ to write witty and urbane programs such as
the one that would ask the user for their name, at which point it would
retort, "Fuck you, A$!" Even funnier'n Mad Magazine! Perhaps I could
even upload these fascinating proto-games to ftp.gmd.de, were consumer
interest high enough!
On another note, the beginning of yodel.exe is the perfect game to play
at two in the morning. It cracked me up.
Jon
Paul F. Snively
doea...@aol.com (Doeadeer3) wrote:
>In article <362164...@nojunk.xtra.co.nz>, Stephen Griffiths
><s...@nojunk.xtra.co.nz> writes:
>
>>I'm of the opinion (though maybe some other rai-f regulars may disagree
>>with me) that Inform is very difficult to learn if you have no
>>programming experience.
>
>Probably, since I am a programmer it is kind of hard for me to say. I looked at
>Inform with programmer's eyes from the beginning. Also I know C.
>
>But a newbie should really look first at contributed code (not manuals,
>libraries and sample games) for all the systems: Inform, Tads, Alan, Hugo and
>see what looks like something they can read/sort of understand from the
>beginning. Manuals won't tell one if the format of the code is something they
>will have an intuitive feel for.
>Personal preference is the key, if you feel you already sort of understand some
>code, your learning curve for that particular system will most likely be much
>lower.
This is a good point. I was just in a local bookstore the other day--a
Barnes and Noble, not even the local technical bookstore. Browsing around
the computer section, it occurred suddenly to me that if I were just
starting out at this, today, as opposed to starting out in programming
around 1978 or so and that only after having soldered togeter my own binary
adders and the like, that I'd be utterly overwhelmed. I mean, when I got
into it seriously, you could having any computer you wanted as long as it
was a TRS-80 Model I, an Apple II, or a Commodore PET. And you could
program in anything you wanted, as long as it was BASIC or assembly
language for your chosen machine. There were few resources, so it didn't
make sense to ask "What book is best?" because, heck, you were grateful
there was _a_ book.
This is problematic, because now I have a 10-year-old stepson who's
interested and has the aptitude, but it's so hard to see what the right
road to set him on, and facing which direction, is.
So my heart goes out to the new programmers, in any domain.
Having said that, if there's any way I can help anyone, newcomer or not,
please let me know.
>Doe :-)
>
>
>
>
>Doe doea...@aol.com (formerly known as FemaleDeer)
>****************************************************************************
>"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain
Paul
P.S. I'm aware that Doe was quoting someone who quoted someone else, etc...
doubt very much that Doe needs my help with anything. ;-)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Snively
<mailto:ch...@mcione.com>
"I had the sense, too, of the illicit side of the casbah, of a kind of
trade in human (or, in this case, executive) flesh." -- Michael Wolff,
"Burn Rate"
ne...@norwich.edu
ange...@waymark.net wrote:
> I'm a teenager who loves IF and have decided to try writing my own
> games. I downloaded an Inform compiler thing and WinFrotz and
> something called IFStory. I was basically wondering if anyone had some
> hints on getting started. I know almost nothing about programming so
> I'm kinda lost. So I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.
Graham Nelson's own Inform 6 site:
http://www.gnelson.demon.co.uk/inform.html
contains lots of information, including one tutorial (Alice Through the
Looking Glass by Gareth Rees), and also a list of web sites with other
tutorials aviallable on them:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/8200/contents.htm
(Inform for Beginners by Jeff Johnson)
http://www.placet.com/int-fiction
(Inform for New Writers by David Cornelson)
--
Neil Cerutti, turtle in ice
ne...@norwich.edu
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Joyce Haslam
Paul F. Snively <ch...@mcione.com> wrote:
> This is problematic, because now I have a 10-year-old stepson who's
> interested and has the aptitude, but it's so hard to see what the
> right road to set him on, and facing which direction, is.
> So my heart goes out to the new programmers, in any domain.
Give him the opportunity to program and the friends (on the net,
probably) to program with. Subscribe to yourmachine.programmer and
other likely n/gs, and watch the sigs for any mentions of groups of
programmers. Learning your second programming language (that includes
inform and cobol) makes learning the third easier.
My son is now a computer engineer and my daughter IT specialist at
her primary school partly because there was a computer in the living
room from the time she was 8 and he was 3. (Our phone bills when they
were teenagers don't bear thinking about - local calls are not free
in the UK.)
Joyce.
--
Joyce Haslam
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/dljhaslam/ for Gateway to Karos [INFORM]
Powerbase is for RiscOs only
c o m u s @ a r g o n e t . c o . u k
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> > ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/infocom/compilers/inform5.5/manuals/
> > designers_manual.txt
> Of course, if you don't insist on using a buggy outdated version
of
> Inform (as friend Jonadab here does), try in:
>
> ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/infocom/compilers/inform6/manuals/
Oopse. I didn't even think about that. I just searched the master
index (which I keep on my hard drive) for "designer's" and posted
the first URL I found...
Actually, I'm using Inform 6 now, but with a modified version
of Library 5/11. My beta testers are going to either love me
or hate me, I'm sure. Possibly both.
Jonadab the Unsightly One
<3621B731...@ucla.edu>...
*I* think Inform's *great*, but in spite of not knowing any C or C++
before learning it, I really can't claim "non-programmer" status.
"non-C-programmer", perhaps, although I'm now learning C++.
> On another note, the beginning of yodel.exe is the perfect game to
play
> at two in the morning. It cracked me up.
I'm not aware of it...
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> This is a good point. I was just in a local bookstore the other
day--a
> Barnes and Noble
Oh, if I were a millionaire I could blow the whole wad in one of
those places...
> , not even the local technical bookstore. Browsing around
> the computer section, it occurred suddenly to me that if I were
just
> starting out at this, today, as opposed to starting out in
programming
> around 1978 or so and that only after having soldered togeter my
own binary
> adders and the like, that I'd be utterly overwhelmed. I mean, when
I got
> into it seriously, you could having any computer you wanted as
long as it
> was a TRS-80 Model I, an Apple II, or a Commodore PET. And you
could
> program in anything you wanted, as long as it was BASIC or
assembly
> language for your chosen machine. There were few resources, so it
didn't
> make sense to ask "What book is best?" because, heck, you were
grateful
> there was _a_ book.
Don't ask "which book is best" because you'll get too many answers.
Ask "name one really good introductory book". Get one of the books
mentioned on interlibrary loan and read it. If it doesn't help, get
one of the others.
> This is problematic, because now I have a 10-year-old stepson
who's
> interested and has the aptitude, but it's so hard to see what the
right
> road to set him on, and facing which direction, is.
Pick one. One thing about programming is that the more languages
you
know the easier they are to learn (same as with foreign languages).
So learn one. Then learn another. Meanwhile, just make sure he's
learning to think analytically like a programmer -- that's the main
thing. If you can devise your own algorithms instead of looking
them
up in a book then you'll be a decent programmer in almost any
language, once you learn it.
Alex Warren
> I'm a teenager who loves IF and have decided to try writing my own
> games. I downloaded an Inform compiler thing and WinFrotz and
> something called IFStory. I was basically wondering if anyone had some
> hints on getting started. I know almost nothing about programming so
> I'm kinda lost. So I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.
> :)
If you're new to the slightly insane world known as IF, you might want to try
out a new IF authoring system called "Quest", designed for ease-of-use *and*
power.
Version 1.0 Beta 3 is currently available at:
with full documentation and a sample game.
The final version will be available soonish. I've been a bit busy lately so I
haven't had much time to put into completing it, though Beta 3 doesn't differ
very much from what I anticipate will be in the final version.
If you have any questions, feel free to email me at alexw...@writeme.com, or
just post a message to this newsgroup (I am but a lurker, but will post an
answer to anything Quest-related).
Hope this helps,
Alex Warren
email: alexw...@writeme.com ยท ICQ: 4043750
http://come.to/axe - Axe Software: freeware for DOS & Windows
http://come.to/basixfanzine - Basix Fanzine: magazine for BASIC programmers
http://members.tripod.com/~perditionproductions - mods (IT format)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(please reply to the newsgroup - if you must reply by email, change the anti-
spam rubbish to the email address above)
Neil K.
Okay, well while everyone's singing the praises of their favourite game
development system, I should mention TADS. :)
I found TADS pretty easy to learn as a newcomer with very little
programming experience. It took a little time to learn the complex inside,
but if you're just starting out and want to create a simple game with a
few rooms and objects, TADS is pretty easy. Despite that you aren't
constrained if you want to write big complex games. Plus TADS allows you
to add graphics and sound very easily using HTML, the language for making
Web pages.
There. End of plug. If you want to check it out:
http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/tads/
The online manual is at:
http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/tads-manual/
- Neil K.
--
t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada
web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ * email: tela @ tela.bc.ca
jgoe...@my-dejanews.com
s...@nojunk.xtra.co.nz wrote:
> I'm of the opinion (though maybe some other rai-f regulars may disagree
> with me) that Inform is very difficult to learn if you have no
> programming experience.
I wholeheartedly agree with Steve. Learning AGT first taught me how to
implement basic concepts like flags, timers, and the like, which made
tackling a new system that much less arduous.
> By all means have a go at it if you wish but if
> you feel Inform is overwhelming you - it is a very powerful and complex
> programming system so this could happen - then you may wish to look at
> some of the other I.F. systems available.
Getting several screenfuls of Inform error messages can be pretty
intimidating for a newbie, especially if you're not sure where to start
correcting your source code.
> Of the other well-known systems, I think TADS and Hugo have similar
> complexity to Inform while Alan and AGT are easier to learn.
IMO, I find Alan to be somewhat stiff in comparison to AGT (which is
rather odd, given that Alan is relatively newer).
> AGT is an old system. It is probably the easiest of all to learn but not
> widely used nowadays. There's a WWW page about AGT at:
>
> http://netnow.micron.net/~jgoemmer/agt.html
Thanks for the plug, Steve!
> Good luck writing your own IF. I think its a great, though time
> consuming :-), hobby.
And *how!* ;-D
Gome
--
The Gome Page: Downbelow Station
http://netnow.micron.net/~jgoemmer/
Sam Powell
www.gnelson.demon.co.uk
Its long, and gets complex but its a good read and aids procrastination for
years....
P.S How old are you?
AngelGirl wrote in message <36212E74...@waymark.net>...
>I'm a teenager who loves IF and have decided to try writing my own
>games. I downloaded an Inform compiler thing and WinFrotz and
>something called IFStory. I was basically wondering if anyone had some
>hints on getting started. I know almost nothing about programming so
>I'm kinda lost. So I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.
>:)
>
Sam Powell
Im not sure exactly how much you do and do not know so Ill start with the
basics. NOTE: However I cant teach you how to program in Inform, that'd take
an age.
The Compiler Thingy is the program used to produces the *.z? files, the
actual z-code story files. The compiler takes your source code (your IF
game) and translates it into the byte-code format of these files, it then
outputs it in the format of (usually) *.z5 - which you and anyone else can
play using WinFrotz.
So what you need to do is learn the language - Inform. It is quite a complex
language, so it helps if you have experience in C, or a similar language -
If your pretty intelegent you'll be able to pick up the principals of
programming as you learn Inform, however I suugest it would be a VERY good
idea to read a beginners book on C first, it'll stand you in good stead for
learning any programming languages.
If you think you can manage in stepping straight in then download the Inform
manual from Graham Nelson's (the writer of Inform) web site at
www.gnelson.demon.co.uk , alternatively, since you downloaded WinFrotz I
presume you ARE using Windows, do it may help you to instead get the
designers manual in a zip file from
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/programming/inform-6/manuals/ the file itself is
pretty obvious - if you cant find it then look in the Index file. Read it,
then read it again, and if you want, again, its quite entertaining. If you
want follow the exersizes - I compile them on your computer as you read the
manual - though there is a steep learning curve in the manual - especialy
when it comes to the exersizes included.
Sam Powell wrote in message <70dl43$r34$6...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
AngelGirl
Sam Powell wrote:...
>
> The compiler takes your source code (your IF
> game) and translates it into the byte-code format of these files, it then
> outputs it in the format of (usually) *.z5 - which you and anyone else can
> play using WinFrotz.
I'd wandered what on earth that .z5 was for. Is Zip also a translator
or whatever you call them?
>
> So what you need to do is learn the language - Inform. It is quite a complex
> language, so it helps if you have experience in C, or a similar language -
Is Turbo Pascal similar to C or Inform?
> If your pretty intelegent you'll be able to pick up the principals of
You spelled intelligent wrong. Sorry, I had to say it. ;)
> >P.S How old are you?
16.
Thanks again for all the helpful info. I really do appreciate it. But
I still can't decide which language to start with, so I just
downloaded all of them and am gonna try em all out to see which works
for me. :)
-Laura
Joe Mason
>>
>> So what you need to do is learn the language - Inform. It is quite a complex
>> language, so it helps if you have experience in C, or a similar language -
>
>Is Turbo Pascal similar to C or Inform?
Yes. And no. As far as programming languages go, no. But knowing ANY
language will help a lot. Its more of a mindset than anything else - if you
can think like a programmer, you can do any language.
I actually learned Inform after Pascal, and because of that I was able to pick
up C in about 24 hours when I started my co-op job last summer.
Joe
--
I think OO is great... It's no coincidence that "woohoo" contains "oo" twice.
-- GLYPH
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> > The compiler takes your source code (your IF
> > game) and translates it into the byte-code format of these
files, it then
> > outputs it in the format of (usually) *.z5 - which you and
anyone else can
> > play using WinFrotz.
>
> I'd wandered what on earth that .z5 was for. Is Zip also a
translator
> or whatever you call them?
Mark Howell's Zip and the various ports thereof (Frotz, jzip, ...)
all do
*essentially* the same thing, yes. They let you *play* the (for
example)
z5 games. We call them "interpreters".
Inform is the program that lets you *make* the z5 games.
We call it the "compiler".
> > So what you need to do is learn the language - Inform. It is
quite a complex
> > language, so it helps if you have experience in C, or a similar
language -
>
> Is Turbo Pascal similar to C or Inform?
Somewhat.
Actually, the complexity of Inform is sometimes overstated.
Inform *contains* complexity. If you want to do complex things
then you'll need that complexity. But for simple objects Inform
is pretty simple. I'd say a background in Pascal should stand
you in good stead. You'll want the Designer's Manual for
Inform, though.
> Thanks again for all the helpful info. I really do appreciate it.
But
> I still can't decide which language to start with, so I just
> downloaded all of them and am gonna try em all out to see which
works
> for me. :)
*All* of them? You'll be busy for a *long* while. There've got to
be
two dozen IF languages out there, some less obscure than others.
--
"The main drawback of Inform is that it lacks
the facility for computed COME FROM statements."
-- jonadab
ri...@cstone.net
ange...@waymark.net wrote:
> I'd wandered what on earth that .z5 was for. Is Zip also a translator
> or whatever you call them?
.Z? extensions are used to indicate ZIL code (Zork Interpretive Language),
which is interpreted by a ZIP (Zork Interpretive Program) :-). More properly
the various "interpreters" are actually _emulators_ of a machine called the
Z-machine, but that detail usually just confuses things, so we'll put it
aside for the moment.
> Is Turbo Pascal similar to C or Inform?
Pascal has some structural simularities to C and Inform, but syntactically
they are fairly different. If you understand Pascal you will understand the
defined variable types and modular structure of C, but many of the flexible
points of C won't be immediately evident, for the simple reason they don't
exist in Pascal (Pascal is in many ways a more structured and limiting
environment than C). This is why Pascal is so often used in teaching
programming and almost never used for real world applications :-).
> > >P.S How old are you?
>
> 16.
Oh my. I find your literary bent at such a young age laudible, and I'm
enthusiastic that people get a kick out of interactive fiction (this was,
after all, what motivated me to make WinFrotz) but do be please be aware that
even in a friendly newsgroup like this one announcing you are a 16 year old
female is tantamount to painting a large, glowing bullseye on yourself that
attracts unsavory attention.
> Thanks again for all the helpful info. I really do appreciate it. But
> I still can't decide which language to start with, so I just
> downloaded all of them and am gonna try em all out to see which works
> for me. :)
They are different enough that this will be quite a task in of itself. I
believe Inform would give you the widest audience, so I would recommend it
over the others, but you will find people to argue one over the other ad
nauseum. Regardless of which you choose I would concentrate on just that one,
create a small, contained "adventure" and completely program it before you
switch to another language. There are some subtle capabilities of each system
that would not be immediately evident from a cursory session or two, but
creating a complete, albeit small work should give you a fair idea of what
you are dealing with.
-Rich
Frank Filz
> > Is Turbo Pascal similar to C or Inform?
>
> Pascal has some structural simularities to C and Inform, but syntactically
> they are fairly different. If you understand Pascal you will understand the
> defined variable types and modular structure of C, but many of the flexible
> points of C won't be immediately evident, for the simple reason they don't
> exist in Pascal (Pascal is in many ways a more structured and limiting
> environment than C). This is why Pascal is so often used in teaching
> programming and almost never used for real world applications :-).
As someone who has written 1000's of lines of real world Pascal code, I
have to disagree a bit...
Borland's variants of Pascal are virtually as powerfull as C++ (in fact
Borland C++ and Delphi share the compiler back end, there have been
claims that Pascal actually ends up compiling to faster code than C++
here - one of my guesses is that the additional structure of Pascal
allows the compiler to do better optimization, rather than being limited
by the semantics of a specific hand optimization a C++ programmer made,
one example might be:
void func(char *c) {
char *d, *e;
d = c;
e = c + 10;
while (d < e) dosomethingwith(d++);
}
vs
void func(char *c) {
for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++) dosomethingwith(c[i]);
}
In the second case, the compiler may have an easier time recognizing
that the local variables don't need to exist in memory at all (and then
the compiler optimizes the 2nd case into what the programmer actually
thought he was doing in the 1st case.
).
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ff...@us.ibm.com
Home: mailto:ff...@mindspring.com
Jonadab the Unsightly One
Frank Filz <ff...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<362E51...@mindspring.com>...
> As someone who has written 1000's of lines of real world Pascal
code, I
> have to disagree a bit...
>
> Borland's variants of Pascal
Yes, Borland's variants of Pascal are more powerful
than the standard by quite a wide margin.
The main problem is that they're totally unportable.
That's dandy if you're developing inherently
system-specific stuff, like TSRs (DOS only),
DLLs (Windoze only), and so forth.
It may even be okay if you decide to limit
yourself to the DOS/Windoze segment of
the market, but you should be aware that
that is what you are doing.
It leaves something to be desired if what you're
writing might ever want to be ported to a
non-Borland-supported OS (Unix, for example).
So the usefulness of Pascal rather depends
upon the purpose.
--
[Insert hilarious quote here.]
-- jonadab
Frank Filz
Don't know how its progressing, but GNU Pascal has a goal of being
capable of being Borland Pacal/Delphi compatible...
John Francis
Frank Filz <ff...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>ri...@cstone.net wrote:
>
>> > Is Turbo Pascal similar to C or Inform?
>>
>> Pascal has some structural simularities to C and Inform, but syntactically
>> they are fairly different. If you understand Pascal you will understand the
>> defined variable types and modular structure of C, but many of the flexible
>> points of C won't be immediately evident, for the simple reason they don't
>> exist in Pascal (Pascal is in many ways a more structured and limiting
>> environment than C). This is why Pascal is so often used in teaching
>> programming and almost never used for real world applications :-).
>
>have to disagree a bit...
We used Pascal to write an operating system (Apollo Computer, late lamented
maker of *real* network workstations . . .)
It was a better OS than Solaris . . . :-)
(Oooh! the os.wars thread seems to have spilled into this one ...)
--
John Francis jfra...@sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc.
(650)933-8295 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd. MS 43U-991
(650)933-4692 (Fax) Mountain View, CA 94043-1389
Hello. My name is Darth Vader. I am your father. Prepare to die.
Alan Conroy
wrote:
>Don't know how its progressing, but GNU Pascal has a goal of being
>capable of being Borland Pacal/Delphi compatible...
Also, FPK Pascal is available. It doesn't compile Delphi code, but it
does compile Borland Pascal 7.0 and is available for DOS, OS/2, and
Linux.
- Alan Conroy
I don't want to say a word against brains--I've
a great respect for brains--I often wish I had
some myself...
- Lord Mountararat