New to Inform
Mike Ward
I've played interactive fiction for years and have made a few failed
attempts to create my own. First with AGT when I was a teenager and didn't
no beans about programming and later with TADS 2 which I never could get
the hang of in spite of knowing a little about C++.
Recently, I got the hankering to try again and after spending about 30
minutes with Adrift (a horrid experience) I picked up Inform.
All is proceding very nicely and I've really taken to it.
After read the DM4 and the Inform Beginner's Guide I've got a pretty could
feel for the basics and can do a fair amount of stuff.
My question is are there any other useful resources for Inform that I
should get.
Thanks,
Mike
SimonW
Hi Mike,
Like you I am starting to learn Inform.
One of the nicest things about Inform is the quality of the
documentation.
I would suggest (If you haven't done so) that you checkout Roger
Firth's web site at http://www.firthworks.com/roger/
Rexx Magnus
> After read the DM4 and the Inform Beginner's Guide I've got a pretty
> could feel for the basics and can do a fair amount of stuff.
>
> My question is are there any other useful resources for Inform that I
> should get.
http://www.geocities.com/mjperlini/ For a pretty good IDE for inform
coding (IFIde)
Roger Firth has numerous pages - notably an extensive FAQ on various
problems you may come across when coding in Inform, along with creative
solutions to those problems. Find one of his posts for the URL for those,
well worth a look.
--
UO & AC Herbal - http://www.rexx.co.uk/herbal
To email me, visit the site.
Jessica Knoch
> After read the DM4 and the Inform Beginner's Guide I've got a
> pretty could feel for the basics and can do a fair amount of
> stuff.
>
> My question is are there any other useful resources for Inform
> that I should get.
In addition to his website, already mentioned at
http://www.firthworks.com/roger/index.html,
Roger Firth wrote a great article spelling out how to set up
TextPad to use for editing IF files. It's easy to use and easy
to set up, thanks to the article on OnyxRing.com at:
http://www.onyxring.com/InformGuide.aspx?article=14
One of my favorite things about Roger's site is his Parsifal,
the list of links to just about every other IF-related site.
It makes it easy to find stuff.
--
Jess K.
David A. Cornelson
news:qFQ2b.116121$3o3.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
That great documentation is also available in paperback from
http://www.iflibrary.com.
Dave
Rexx Magnus
>> After read the DM4 and the Inform Beginner's Guide I've got a pretty
>> could feel for the basics and can do a fair amount of stuff.
>>
>> My question is are there any other useful resources for Inform that I
>> should get.
>>
>
> That great documentation is also available in paperback from
> http://www.iflibrary.com.
>
> Dave
>
Which I heartily recommend buying!
*nurses his copy*
Harry
cornelson at iflibrary.com> made the world a better place by saying:
And coming soon: DM4: The Movie!
Directed by Peter "I can now adapt ANY book to film" Jackson,
Starring: Johnny Depp as Graham Nelson,
McCauly Culkin in his first adult role as The Mayan Priest
and
Starring Marlon Brando as The Packing Crate
also featuring a special appearance of Michael Jackson as 'The Grue'!
Coming soon, to a cinema near you!
Harry
-------------------------------------
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be."
http://www.haha.demon.nl
(To send e-mail, remove SPAMBLOCK from address)
Rexx Magnus
> And coming soon: DM4: The Movie!
>
> Directed by Peter "I can now adapt ANY book to film" Jackson,
>
> Starring: Johnny Depp as Graham Nelson,
> McCauly Culkin in his first adult role as The Mayan Priest
> and
> Starring Marlon Brando as The Packing Crate
>
> also featuring a special appearance of Michael Jackson as 'The Grue'!
>
> Coming soon, to a cinema near you!
Don't forget the cameo guest stars, such as Lara Croft. :)
Can I supply the appendix?
*chop*
I don't think I'll be needing that.
*wields a piece of useless flesh*
Nikos Chantziaras
>
> I've played interactive fiction for years and have made a few failed
> attempts to create my own. First with AGT when I was a teenager and
> didn't no beans about programming and later with TADS 2 which I
> never could get the hang of in spite of knowing a little about C++.
> Recently, I got the hankering to try again and after spending about
> 30 minutes with Adrift (a horrid experience) I picked up Inform.
>
> All is proceding very nicely and I've really taken to it.
How on earth someone can pick up Inform easier than Tads is a mystery to me.
--
Niko <realnc--(AT)--lycos--(DOT)--de>
http://members.lycos.co.uk/realnc
SimonW
<for....@manager.de> wrote:
>Mike Ward wrote:
>>
>> I've played interactive fiction for years and have made a few failed
>> attempts to create my own. First with AGT when I was a teenager and
>> didn't no beans about programming and later with TADS 2 which I
>> never could get the hang of in spite of knowing a little about C++.
>> Recently, I got the hankering to try again and after spending about
>> 30 minutes with Adrift (a horrid experience) I picked up Inform.
>>
>> All is proceding very nicely and I've really taken to it.
>
>How on earth someone can pick up Inform easier than Tads is a mystery to me.
For me it was all down to the documentation.
TADS's documentation is excellent, but Inform's is outstanding.
I was surprised at the amount of time I invested choosing between
Inform and TADS.
I coded a simple game in each language and felt more comfortable with
inform, thanks to the Inform Beginner's guide (I have always liked
linear tutorials) and the Inform designer's manual.
So for the time being, I am sticking to Inform!
Shadow Wolf
news:6k8qkv0j85ccgpun5...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:31:09 +0300, "Nikos Chantziaras"
> <for....@manager.de> wrote:
>
>>Mike Ward wrote:
>>>
>>> I've played interactive fiction for years and have made a few failed
>>> attempts to create my own. First with AGT when I was a teenager and
>>> didn't no beans about programming and later with TADS 2 which I
>>> never could get the hang of in spite of knowing a little about C++.
>>> Recently, I got the hankering to try again and after spending about
>>> 30 minutes with Adrift (a horrid experience) I picked up Inform.
>>>
>>> All is proceding very nicely and I've really taken to it.
>>
>>How on earth someone can pick up Inform easier than Tads is a mystery
>>to me.
>
> For me it was all down to the documentation.
>
> TADS's documentation is excellent, but Inform's is outstanding.
Yes. While programmers can easily learn a language from the TADS docs and
sample programs, TADS has nothing like Inform's Beginner's Guide and
Designer's Manual. These two books make Inform _much_ easier to pick up for
someone without much programming experience.
Experienced programmers, on the other hand, are likely used to picking up
new languages quickly based on technical documentation (like the TADS docs)
and a few examples. I picked up both Inform and TADS quickly, but decided
on TADS for a few reasons:
1. Lists -- My programming experience, particularly in LISP, Python, and
Lua, has given me a lot of respect for the use of dynamic lists to solve a
wide variety of problems. TADS has excellent facilities for manipulating
lists. The Z-machine is extremely limited in this area, and Inform reflects
this limitation.
2. String Manipulation -- I also prefer the way TADS allows you to actually
manipulate strings, thus providing more output variability. Again, the Z-
machine is extremely limited in this area.
3. adv.t -- the fact that the library is object-oriented, well-organized,
easy to understand, and easy to extend is probably what sold me faster than
anything else. I am an OO programmer by trade. The TADS library bases
behavior of an object on the class (or classes of that object). The Inform
library, by contrast, rarely provides classes, and instead bases behaviors
on whether a particular bit (attribute) is set or not. I don't like this
particular paradigm.
For a non-programmer or beginning programmer, though, Inform, with its
excellent documentation, is probably the best choice.
I didn't encounter Hugo until later. It's another excellent language, but
I'm too stuck on TADS lists and strings to switch. If Hugo had docs like
the DM4 and IBG, I would actually consider it superior to Inform for
programming novices.
--
Shadow Wolf
shadow_wolf1 at hotpop dot com
Stories at http://www.asstr.org/~Shadow_Wolf
AIF at http://www.geocities.com/shadowolf3400
Mike Ward
news:bij4ed$a3r82$1...@ID-151409.news.uni-berlin.de:
> Mike Ward wrote:
>>
>> I've played interactive fiction for years and have made a few failed
>> attempts to create my own. First with AGT when I was a teenager and
>> didn't no beans about programming and later with TADS 2 which I
>> never could get the hang of in spite of knowing a little about C++.
>> Recently, I got the hankering to try again and after spending about
>> 30 minutes with Adrift (a horrid experience) I picked up Inform.
>>
>> All is proceding very nicely and I've really taken to it.
>
> How on earth someone can pick up Inform easier than Tads is a mystery
> to me.
>
The DM4 and the Inform Beginners Guide where a lot more informative than
anything I could find on TADS.
Mike
Mike Ward
news:c9mnkv45862996c30...@4ax.com:
Thanks, I hadn't seen this page. It is very useful.
Mike
SimonW
<shadow...@NOSPAMhotpop.com> wrote:
*snip*
>Yes. While programmers can easily learn a language from the TADS docs and
>sample programs, TADS has nothing like Inform's Beginner's Guide and
>Designer's Manual. These two books make Inform _much_ easier to pick up for
>someone without much programming experience.
But I am a programmer, with 5 years commercial experience!
*snip*
>I didn't encounter Hugo until later. It's another excellent language, but
>I'm too stuck on TADS lists and strings to switch. If Hugo had docs like
>the DM4 and IBG, I would actually consider it superior to Inform for
>programming novices.
I haven't looked at Hugo at all. From what I can gather it's very much
like Inform?
Quintin Stone
>
> Yes. While programmers can easily learn a language from the TADS docs
> and sample programs, TADS has nothing like Inform's Beginner's Guide and
> Designer's Manual. These two books make Inform _much_ easier to pick up
> for someone without much programming experience.
So I want to ask: what kinds of documentation is there for TADS 2 beyond
the TADS Author's Manual? Is there a need/call for more? I would be
interested in starting something akin to the Inform's Beginner's Guide,
but I'd hate to start it and then watch everyone abandon TADS 2 for TADS 3
once it's finished and documented.
/====================================================================\
|| Quintin Stone O- > "You speak of necessary evil? One ||
|| Code Monkey < of those necessities is that if ||
|| Rebel Programmers Society > innocents must suffer, the guilty must ||
|| st...@rps.net < suffer more." -- Mackenzie Calhoun ||
|| http://www.rps.net/ > "Once Burned" by Peter David ||
\====================================================================/
Al
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:23:20 GMT, Shadow Wolf
> <shadow...@NOSPAMhotpop.com> wrote:
>
> *snip*
>
> >Yes. While programmers can easily learn a language from the TADS docs and
> >sample programs, TADS has nothing like Inform's Beginner's Guide and
> >Designer's Manual. These two books make Inform _much_ easier to pick up for
> >someone without much programming experience.
>
> But I am a programmer, with 5 years commercial experience!
>
The TADS2 Manual was more of a techie thing. You really needed to look at source
code
hopefully Mike will do a much much better implementation on the T3 Manual when
he
gets to it.
Shadow Wolf
news:99lskvg6da23ug1t7...@4ax.com:
>>I didn't encounter Hugo until later. It's another excellent language,
>>but I'm too stuck on TADS lists and strings to switch. If Hugo had
>>docs like the DM4 and IBG, I would actually consider it superior to
>>Inform for programming novices.
>
> I haven't looked at Hugo at all. From what I can gather it's very much
> like Inform?
It is. But the library is more object-oriented than Inform's, and I find
the language to be much cleaner in general.
SimonW
wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:23:20 GMT, Shadow Wolf wrote:
>>
>> Yes. While programmers can easily learn a language from the TADS docs
>> and sample programs, TADS has nothing like Inform's Beginner's Guide and
>> Designer's Manual. These two books make Inform _much_ easier to pick up
>> for someone without much programming experience.
>
>So I want to ask: what kinds of documentation is there for TADS 2 beyond
>the TADS Author's Manual? Is there a need/call for more? I would be
>interested in starting something akin to the Inform's Beginner's Guide,
>but I'd hate to start it and then watch everyone abandon TADS 2 for TADS 3
>once it's finished and documented.
That is always the problem writing documentation.
But I would read if it was written, to me that is what TADS is lacking
and because of this I am sure many budding authors do not see the true
power of TADS.
Quintin Stone
> That is always the problem writing documentation.
Partially true. I mean, in this case, TADS 3 is a complete rewrite, it's
pretty much done (from what I can tell), and we all know it's coming. I
just don't know the timetable, or what kind of activity TADS 2 will see
once its successor is declared "ready for prime time".
Shadow Wolf
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.03082...@yes.rps.net:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, SimonW wrote:
>
>> That is always the problem writing documentation.
>
> Partially true. I mean, in this case, TADS 3 is a complete rewrite, it's
> pretty much done (from what I can tell), and we all know it's coming. I
> just don't know the timetable, or what kind of activity TADS 2 will see
> once its successor is declared "ready for prime time".
I'm sure there will continue to be some activity with TADS 2 for quite a
while, but it will mostly be by those already familiar with TADS2, who
either don't want to switch or just want to finish their current projects
first.
New programmers, however, will probably be more interested in TADS 3, as it
will be the "current" version.
Quintin Stone
> I'm sure there will continue to be some activity with TADS 2 for quite a
> while, but it will mostly be by those already familiar with TADS2, who
> either don't want to switch or just want to finish their current
> projects first.
>
> New programmers, however, will probably be more interested in TADS 3, as
> it will be the "current" version.
I think you're probably right.