Making an IF game
Torbjørn G. Dahle
1. So there's TADS and Inform. What are the differences? Inform makes Z-code
files, right?
2. Are there some resources on making IF games, like tutorials, program
examples and so on?
3. Does making a little IF game take years and years of hard work? Is it
dangerous and scary?
Thanks.
Roger Firth
news:3ff70dec$1...@news.wineasy.se...
> So, I have some questions regarding making my own IF game:
>
> 1. So there's TADS and Inform. What are the differences? Inform makes
Z-code
> files, right?
There are few /significant/ differences between TADS and Inform (and Hugo)
-- they're all industrial-strength IF development systems in which you write
your game in a specialised language, compile it, and then play it by means
of an interpreter program (versions of which run on PCs, Macs, Unix boxes,
etc etc). There are also some simpler (and less powerful) systems, like
Alan,
and some PC-only systems like Quest and ADRIFT. Look at the Cloak of
Darkness site (my URL below) for examples of the systems in use today.
> 2. Are there some resources on making IF games, like tutorials, program
> examples and so on?
Yes. All of the systems have such resources; those for TADS and Inform are
probably most comprehensive, but almost every system provides some sort
of tutorial assistance.
> 3. Does making a little IF game take years and years of hard work? Is it
> dangerous and scary?
Yes, and yes. No, of course not! You can make a little IF game after a few
day's careful study. To make a /good/ little IF game is rather harder, but
still perfectly feasible. You'll have to be prepared to invest some effort
in learning how your chosen system works, and you may find things
easier if you've some idea of what programming means. It's fun, and
the harder you try, the more fun it gets.
Cheers, Roger
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
You'll find my Cloak of Darkness, Parsifal, Informary
and more at http://www.firthworks.com/roger/
Torbjørn G. Dahle
news:107315905...@iris.uk.clara.net...
> and some PC-only systems like Quest and ADRIFT. Look at the Cloak of
> Darkness site (my URL below) for examples of the systems in use today.
That site is great. Thanks! I think I'll give TADS a go first, and try
making a simple test game.
Dave Bernazzani
>1. So there's TADS and Inform. What are the
>differences? Inform makes Z-code files, right?
There are other systems as well. I recently looked into a few of
the more popular systems (TADS, Inform and Alan) and found all to
be more than adequate for the craft. However, I chose Inform for
several reasons - not the least of which was the phenomenal
documentation associated with it. The Inform Beginners Guide was
a nice easy step for me to get up and running and the Inform
Designer's Manual (4th Edition, Graham Nelson) is top notch (both
on the detailed use of Inform and the 30+ pages on the Craft of
Adventure). Inform creates fairly portable Z-Files that can be
fairly gargantuan in size - the V8 512K model is adequate for the
types of adventure games I would likely design. And then there
is always Glulx which would extend the system further should you
need it. TADS would have been a (very close) second choice - and
Mike Roberts seems ever helpful to answer questions about his
system on this newsgroup.
>3. Does making a little IF game take years
>and years of hard work?
Others will undoubtedly give you a better feel for how long it
takes to craft an adventure (though even here things clearly are
related to how big and how complex you want your If game to be).
I'm happy to give you what little knowledge I know about things
from my limited experience. My first game was probably 7 rooms
and 3 very easy puzzles that I made for co-workers as a small
gift this past holiday. It was really fun to work on and took me
about 20 hours of development and debug time (most of this was
spent learning the ins and outs of Inform and clever ways to code
something - often I would code and learn that something was too
difficult, read more in the designer's manual and then go back
and recode to simplify based on what I learned). An experienced
Inform designer could probably have coded my 7 room 3 puzzle
adventure in a few hours. My second game has taken me almost
twice as many hours designing/coding (and reading my creative
fiction books to brush up on creative writing skills) and is only
a third done but the work is really fun and I'm picking up steam
as I gain confidence. My Inform coding appears to be working
solidly for me (though I may rethink some of my design after
playtesters tear it apart!). I would suggest starting off with a
small game that you won't delve too deeply into (5-10 rooms at
most) just to get a feel for the design process and the tools you
choose (Inform, TADS, Alan or one of the others). This short
game will be invaluable in experience. I looked back at that
first ultra-short "trial" game (now only 1 month old) and
realized how much better I could have done and how much I've
learned during the process. I can see the confidence I now have
going into my new work.
--
Dave Bernazzani
dav...@gisNOSPAM.net (remove NOSPAM to use)
Paul Allen Panks
are writing and your intended audience. If you want a simple game, it
would only take a few weeks or even days if you are diligent enough.
TADS and Inform are great. I'd recommend them highly. I think TADS is more
of a personal choice, but that's because it seems more robust in my
opinion. Inform also has nice qualities as well. It boils down to what you
are trying to do, what tweaks you need to make, and why they need to be
done. If you can tell a semi-interesting story, you are halfway across
homeplate. The rest boils down to word choices, verb usage considerations,
puzzles, and imagination.
P.S. If you want to use a more traditional language -- such as C++ or
BASIC -- you should search Google for skeleton adventures to adapt your
own coding style towards. And if you don't code much, a good tutorial is
always available somewhere.
Regards,
Paul Panks [a/k/a "Dunric"]
dun...@yahoo.com
Cedric Knight
> 3. Does making a little IF game take years and years of hard work? Is
> it dangerous and scary?
'Dangerous' and 'scary' are hard to quantify, but you deserve at least
one honest ersponse. There have been some close shaves recently when
newbies have read the TADS2 documentation but failed to take notice of
the safety drill. And while Inform has improved its safety record, we
don't try to hide the small number of fatalities over the years.
There shouldn't be any adolescent machismo about writing IF, so if you
are scared, I'd suggest less risky pursuits such as motor racing,
navigating waterfalls in a barrel, or building a hobbyist's nuclear
reactor in your garage.
But maybe the greatest danger is developing haemorrhoids from sitting at
the computer for too long.
CK
Torbjørn G. Dahle
news:MVXJb.9004$tQ6.1...@wards.force9.net...
> 'Dangerous' and 'scary' are hard to quantify, but you deserve at least
> one honest ersponse. There have been some close shaves recently when
> newbies have read the TADS2 documentation but failed to take notice of
> the safety drill. And while Inform has improved its safety record, we
> don't try to hide the small number of fatalities over the years.
That's what I thought. I knew there had to be some downsides to this whole
"interactive fiction" business.
Ah well, accidents never happen to _me_, right?
Paul Drallos
that there is no TADS interpreter for PALM devices at this time,
whereas there are several for Z-code.
Mark J. Tilford
I'd add that TADS separates actions into (IIRC) verify / check / do
methods, while Inform uses before / during / after stages.
Also, Inform is a bit more limited wrt array sizes and dynamically
allocating arrays.
--
------------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
til...@ugcs.caltech.edu
Jayson Smith
Remember that the Z-machine was designed so that the Infocom games could be
played on the home computers available back in the early 1980's. In those
days, a 12-MHZ 286 with 1 meg of ram and a 100 MB hard disk would have
seemed like a supercomputer.
That having been said, I personally like Inform better, and I really can't
say why. I tried to get into Tads before I found Inform, but at that point
my favorite system was AGT. Heh! Almost the first day I started coding up
a small test game in Inform I fell in love with it. I really can't say why
that was, but something about Inform just struck me the right way.
Jayson
"Mark J. Tilford" <til...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnbvhhcp....@ralph.earthlink.net...
Jayson Smith
Imho, there is much to be said for making a test game. This is the first
game you make when trying out a new system to see if you like it and if so,
learning about it. This game, if yours are anything like mine, will never
be shown to anybody else, ever. Or maybe it might if I can think of a way
to turn it into a real game. But basicly what I do, when trying out a new
system or brushing up on my Inform, is to write a game, usually a one-room
game although it doesn't have to be, and just adding stuff as I learn it.
For full realistic learning, write a small game that can actually be won.
E.G. a simple puzzle probably anybody could solve. My first ever test game
in Inform was a one-room affair for a long time. I only added in a second
room when I wanted to play with darkness I think it was. Once again, just
for testing purposes it doesn't matter if the game is so
dumb/silly/stupid/whatever that you never give one single copy to any other
creature, on Earth or otherwise, and request that all copies of the game, in
any form, be totally destroyed at your death, in order to keep others from
saying, "Oh my gosh, he wrote that? How stupid can you get!". Or something
like that. The point is to learn the system and get used to it. Once that
is done you can start work on something real.
I currently have two such winable games. One of them is a reasonable though
pointless game, and the other one is downright stupid. I don't plan on
releasing either game. They're just too silly, pointless, etc. But hey, I
used them to learn some Inform!
By the way, if anybody wishes to post this message of mine on a website, or
include it in any guides, books, manuals, how-tos, etc. on IF design and
learning a new system, I, Jayson Smith, do hereby give you permission to use
any or all of this message in any form you want, with or without notifying
me.
Jayson.
"Dave Bernazzani" <dav...@gis.net> wrote in message
news:k07fvv8h5ms9c001k...@4ax.com...
L. Ross Raszewski
>The restrictions on arrays, etc. probably go back to the Z-machine format.
Well, that's not exactly right; inform limits the ways you can
allocate objects, arrays, etc. because inform does all its memory
allocation at compile time, not, really, because of the
Z-machine. TADS, on the other hand, does loads of allocation at
run-time. This is really a language (and, to some extent, library)
decision, not a VM decision; you could write an inform library that
did dynamic allocation of arrays (or objects. In fact, I did.)
Now, the fact that you'd be limited to a total dynamic pool of 64k
*is* a VM limitation, but the fact that TADS lets you allocate lists
on the fly whereas inform requires you to allocate them at compile
time isn't.
In a sense, though, it does stem from the Z-machine's philosophy, in
that a legal TADS game will simply *not run* on some machines which
support TADS -- you allocate too many dynamic objects or too much
dynamic list space to fit in the actual memory of the machine running
it, and the program will unexpectedly crash. On the other hand, every
legal Z-machine game which runs on one platform runs on every platform
with a properly working interpreter (Note qualifications 'properly
working' and 'legal'. There are several Z-machine games which aren't
quite portable either due to the author's doing something
illegal-but-acceptable-on-his-home-system, or due to the prevalence of
terp bugs. And, of course, the whole 'optional capability' thing
muddies this, but it's really a different discussion)