Textfyre presents Eric Eve's Nightfall
ChicagoDave
competition game as a guinea pig.
We've still got some technical issues to resolve, but the game is
mostly playable at this point. There is a map for Nightfall at <http://
ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=3a4kqs374jqu2li6> if you need one.
Without further ado, here is an Interactive Fiction presented in
Textfyre's FyreVM using Channel IO published in Microsoft Silverlight
and of course thanks to Eric Eve for the gracious use of his second
place IFComp 2008 game.
Note: Silverlight works on Windows XP, Vista, and Intel Mac's using
any of the common browsers.
Nightfall: <http://www.textfyre.com/nightfall>
Cheers,
David C.
Erik Temple
Very nice. Very slow on the pathfinding, though--the delay was so long
I thought the game had crashed. Is this a speed issue with all
computationally complex operations?
Also note that the tab says "Table of Content" rather than "Contents";
and "Continue Game" from the TOC brings you to the intro page, rather
than the gameplay page. These minor issues aside, FyreVM looks
extremely promising--thanks for sharing it!
--Erik
Eric Eve
news:fcfda271-02f8-495a...@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 17, 4:18 pm, ChicagoDave <david.cornel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very nice. Very slow on the pathfinding, though--the delay was so
> long
> I thought the game had crashed. Is this a speed issue with all
> computationally complex operations?
It's *very* slow the first time it uses pathfinding. After that it
should it be a bit quicker.
-- Eric
ChicagoDave
> Very nice. Very slow on the pathfinding, though--the delay was so long
> I thought the game had crashed. Is this a speed issue with all
> computationally complex operations?
We're going to profile this and see if we can improve performance.
> Also note that the tab says "Table of Content" rather than "Contents";
> and "Continue Game" from the TOC brings you to the intro page, rather
> than the gameplay page. These minor issues aside, FyreVM looks
> extremely promising--thanks for sharing it!
It's still in beta stage (the UI).
You (anyone) can share your thoughts here or if you want to be more
direct, please feel free to send me your comments.
Thanks,
David C.
Erik Temple
> It's *very* slow the first time it uses pathfinding. After that it
> should it be a bit quicker.
>
> -- Eric
Ah yes, it does speed up substantially after the first time, and the
delay is not at all unreasonable. Would it be possible to pre-cache
the pathfinding during startup? I think Alabaster is doing something
like that with conversation threading.... Maybe the FyreVM crew will
be able to speed things up in any case, but the delay is really
substantial--I closed my browser window the first time, thinking the
game had tanked...
--Erik
ChicagoDave
If you're on a Mac and get an error saying something about a wrong
beta version, download Silverlight directly:
http://silverlight.net/GetStarted/
And then go back to the nightfall page.
David C.
S. John Ross
This is pretty, but I still want to grab the protagonist and just
shake him :)
UI comments:
* When the first prompt appeared, I was busy clicking pages past and
then suddenly that stopped working. It only took me a fraction of a
second to go "duh, we're at the part with a parser," but some kind of
helpful reminder to that effect maybe should pop up when someone
clicks the lower-right "page turn" area when the parser is expecting
input for the first time (or maybe not, if the plan is to explain this
stuff up front in the finished dealy).
* In my browser (a current Firefox install) there were some very ugly
kerning problems, almost as if the program were kerning for the wrong
typeface. Some letters were head-butting each other; others were
clearly having a tiff and standing with an icy distance between them.
* I played with returning to the "Table of Content" from the game, and
then from there "Return to Game," but this didn't bring me back to the
game proper. Instead, it brought me back to the next "page," and from
there I had to manually "flip" to the actual game screen.
Other than that, just purty!
Emily Short
A couple of other things I noticed:
-- if you try to go through a locked door, you get a custom message
from the game, then a y-umlaut (ÿ), and then the default "(first
trying to open the street door)" sort of message. I'm not sure what's
going on there, but I don't think anything like that happened in the
comp version of the game.
-- this may be just me, but having the uncurved text/images against
the picture of a strongly-curved book background is a little
disconcerting. I know you probably don't want to bend the lettering to
follow the shape of the "pages" behind, but I thought this a mildly
weird effect.
On the other hand, the images do give a sense of the city as a really
large place -- larger even than I had formed in my head while playing
the first couple of times. That's an interesting effect for the game.
James Cunningham
> On Dec 17, 5:01 pm, ChicagoDave <david.cornel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> You (anyone) can share your thoughts here or if you want to be more
>> direct, please feel free to send me your comments.
>
> A couple of other things I noticed:
> [...]
> -- this may be just me, but having the uncurved text/images against
> the picture of a strongly-curved book background is a little
> disconcerting. I know you probably don't want to bend the lettering to
> follow the shape of the "pages" behind, but I thought this a mildly
> weird effect.
It is not just you: as soon as I noticed this it continued to bother me
as long as I played. I can't suggest a proper fix for this, but it
might be less disconcerting if the pages were pushed down a little
flatter. (I suppose this would be the place to say that I'm a little
dubious about the book metaphor anyway. I'm not entirely sure what it
gains the player.)
> [...]
Best,
James
S. John Ross
> It is not just you: as soon as I noticed this it continued to bother me
> as long as I played. I can't suggest a proper fix for this, but it
> might be less disconcerting if the pages were pushed down a little
> flatter. (I suppose this would be the place to say that I'm a little
> dubious about the book metaphor anyway. I'm not entirely sure what it
> gains the player.)
After the initial couple of "pages," it doesn't seem to do anything at
all anymore (maybe there's a later part in the game where the page
"turns" again to mark the passing of a notable event? I only played
for a little while ...)
If the pages never mean anything past the intro, it might be best to,
at the last "turning," simply provide a cute little zoom-in so that
the "page" graphic gets out of the player's way. Dunno.
Or in other words: ditto on the dubious. Pretty, though.
Eric Eve
On Dec 17, 4:59 pm, "Eric Eve" <eric....@NOSPAMhmc.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Ah yes, it does speed up substantially after the first time, and
> the
> delay is not at all unreasonable. Would it be possible to
> pre-cache
> the pathfinding during startup?
Unfortunately I can't see how. That is, I've tried issuing a
pathfinding command at startup for just this purpose, but the only
result is that the delay occurs twice over, once at startup and once
the first time the player uses a GO TO/CONTINUE command that uses
pathfinding.
-- Eric
Eric Eve
news:5bd01c22-29c6-4f9e...@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 17, 5:01 pm, ChicagoDave <david.cornel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> -- if you try to go through a locked door, you get a custom
> message
> from the game, then a y-umlaut (˙), and then the default "(first
> trying to open the street door)" sort of message. I'm not sure
> what's
> going on there, but I don't think anything like that happened in
> the
> comp version of the game.
I noticed this too. This applies to all implicit actions, not just
going through doors, and, as you say, didn't occur in the comp
version of the game and doesn't occur in an ordinary 'terp. I think
at least part of the problem is that my Text Capture extension,
which Implicit Actions uses, doesn't work properly with the FyreVM.
-- Eric
Damien Neil
> Without further ado, here is an Interactive Fiction presented in
> Textfyre's FyreVM using Channel IO published in Microsoft Silverlight
> and of course thanks to Eric Eve for the gracious use of his second
> place IFComp 2008 game.
My first impression: That's a *huge* font. I feel like I'm trying to
read a book while peering through a narrow cardboard tube.
- Damien
Peter Pears
> message
> trying to open the street door)" sort of message. I'm not sure
> what's
> going on there, but I don't think anything like that happened in
> the
> comp version of the game.
Actually, I get that a lot in my WIP - got it ever since I added the
ASCII automap. It's surely the extension, and I don't know why it's
happening. At any rate, it's not a FyreVM issue.
BTW, this has happened in Glulx. Maybe it doesnt' happen in a Z-
machine?
James Jolley
I can't comment myself as it's inaccessible as would be expected. All I
will say is that i'm assuming your works will be accessible to blind
players. This is often becoming a concern for me, as we get more into
graphics and other things, are we leaving out a demographic?
Eric Eve
"Peter Pears" <peter...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d23f239f-6a21-45cf...@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> -- if you try to go through a locked door, you get a custom
>> message
>> trying to open the street door)" sort of message. I'm not sure
>> what's
>> going on there, but I don't think anything like that happened in
>> the
>> comp version of the game.
> Actually, I get that a lot in my WIP - got it ever since I added
> the
> ASCII automap. It's surely the extension, and I don't know why
> it's
> happening. At any rate, it's not a FyreVM issue.
I'm pretty sure it is a FyreVM issue; it's being caused, at least in
part, by the fact that FyreVM doesn't handle text capture the way
standard Glulx does, so the text capture routine used by the
Implicit Actions extension doesn't work properly. I think the
y-umlaut is caused by the print char(255) that Text Capture uses to
mark the end of a captured string; it's being displayed on the
screen instead of added to the text buffer. The stuff that's being
printed before the "(first trying to open the street door)" is
probably text that should have been captured but wasn't.
I've now sent David Cornelson an update which *may* fix this (I
can't be sure until he tests it).
I'm not sure why it would be happening in your WIP if you're WIP
isn't using the FyreVM, unless the implementation of your ASCII
automap is incompatible with Text Capture. Does the ASCII automap do
anything with output text capturing?
-- Eric
Peter Pears
> y-umlaut is caused by the print char(255) that Text Capture uses to
> mark the end of a captured string; it's being displayed on the
> screen instead of added to the text buffer. The stuff that's being
> printed before the "(first trying to open the street door)" is
> probably text that should have been captured but wasn't.
The y-umlaut *is* the stuff being printed before the text, and since
there's no time at all in my WIP where I display such a character (or
even in your extension - I browsed through), I don't know why it
appears at all.
> I'm not sure why it would be happening in your WIP if you're WIP
> isn't using the FyreVM, unless the implementation of your ASCII
> automap is incompatible with Text Capture. Does the ASCII automap do
> anything with output text capturing?
Very simply, I fire a set of rules when the player moves or opens/
closes a door, and those rules set the focus to a separate window
(using Flexible Windows by Jon Ingold), which is a text grid, and then
I write a bunch of stuff on the text grid.
I've noticed the problem persistently, but *not at all times*. It
seems to appear at certain points, or after I've visited a certain
location. Once it's there, I can replicate it easily, but I haven't
yet bothered to find the conditions which make this happen.
glibworm
> I noticed this too. This applies to all implicit actions, not just
> going through doors, and, as you say, didn't occur in the comp
> version of the game and doesn't occur in an ordinary 'terp. I think
> at least part of the problem is that my Text Capture extension,
> which Implicit Actions uses, doesn't work properly with the FyreVM.
I've had this bug when trying to blend Text Capture and Flexible
Windows. The umlaut character is one printed by Text Capture to mark
the end of the captured text: the problem is [something like] when a
change of window is issed, the capturing process stops silently, so
when the end capture is reached, it prints the character to the screen
rather to the buffer. I managed to get round it by ending streams
before changing windows, but I never solved it.
For the pathfinding: could you do a "go to <X> silently" at start-up?
Presumably the problem is that the particular path-finding routine
needs to be fired, so all you need to do is ensure that when you call
it during startup it's going through the same line of I7 code?
jon
Eric Eve
news:db2db8f2-18c7-4c1e...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> I've had this bug when trying to blend Text Capture and Flexible
> Windows. The umlaut character is one printed by Text Capture to
> mark
> the end of the captured text: the problem is [something like] when
> a
> change of window is issed, the capturing process stops silently,
> so
> when the end capture is reached, it prints the character to the
> screen
> rather to the buffer. I managed to get round it by ending streams
> before changing windows, but I never solved it.
That would explain it.
> For the pathfinding: could you do a "go to <X> silently" at
> start-up?
> Presumably the problem is that the particular path-finding routine
> needs to be fired, so all you need to do is ensure that when you
> call
> it during startup it's going through the same line of I7 code?
I've tried this but it doesn't seem to help. It simply introduces an
additional delay at startup without reducing the delay from the
first GO TO command. I have no idea why that should be, since
logically your suggestion ought to work.
-- Eric
Eric Eve
>> I think the
>> y-umlaut is caused by the print char(255) that Text Capture uses
>> to
>> mark the end of a captured string; it's being displayed on the
>> screen instead of added to the text buffer. The stuff that's
>> being
>> printed before the "(first trying to open the street door)" is
>> probably text that should have been captured but wasn't.
>
> The y-umlaut *is* the stuff being printed before the text, and
> since
> there's no time at all in my WIP where I display such a character
> (or
> even in your extension - I browsed through), I don't know why it
> appears at all.
See the separate reply from glibworm elsewhere in this thread.
>> I'm not sure why it would be happening in your WIP if you're WIP
>> isn't using the FyreVM, unless the implementation of your ASCII
>> automap is incompatible with Text Capture. Does the ASCII automap
>> do
>> anything with output text capturing?
>
> Very simply, I fire a set of rules when the player moves or opens/
> closes a door, and those rules set the focus to a separate window
> (using Flexible Windows by Jon Ingold), which is a text grid, and
> then
> I write a bunch of stuff on the text grid.
From what glibworm says in his post, it looks like it's the
combination of Text Capture (used by Implicit Actions) and Flexible
Windows that's the culprit.
-- Eric
ChicagoDave
> I've now sent David Cornelson an update which *may* fix this (I
> can't be sure until he tests it).
Revision 8 is up.
David C.
ChicagoDave
> I can't comment myself as it's inaccessible as would be expected. All I
> will say is that i'm assuming your works will be accessible to blind
> players. This is often becoming a concern for me, as we get more into
> graphics and other things, are we leaving out a demographic?
Textfyre will release text-only versions alongside the fancier
versions that are 100% compatible with standard Accessibility
features.
David C.
Eric Eve
"ChicagoDave" <david.c...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2714289a-e9a6-436f...@r27g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> Revision 8 is up.
Great! It's almost solved the two problems it was meant to, but I
see it's cutting off the "The" at the start of failure messages
following failed implicit actions. I'll email you about that
off-list.
-- Eric
James Jolley
Thanks Dave, good to know and don't take my remarks as whining. I just
love my IF that's all.
S. John Ross
> Textfyre will release text-only versions alongside the fancier
> versions that are 100% compatible with standard Accessibility
> features.
Groovy.
Victor Gijsbers
Hash: SHA1
ChicagoDave wrote:
> Note: Silverlight works on Windows XP, Vista, and Intel Mac's using
> any of the common browsers.
I caved in an installed Novell's Moonlight as a Firefox plug-in. The
result is an error message:
"Moonlight was compiled with 1.0 support only.
This page requires 2.0 support."
(Great error message, Novell. What about telling me the 2.0 version of
_WHAT_ you need?)
So far for Microsoft's promise to make their proprietary technologies
available cross-platform. (As if we ever believed them.)
I don't understand why Textfyre didn't use something like Flash instead.
Flash is as closed and proprietary as Silverlight, but at least there
are relatively good Flash interpreters for a wide range of systems. (And
isn't there some real cross-platform way to do this stuff?)
Regards,
Victor
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Nikos Chantziaras
> [...]
> I don't understand why Textfyre didn't use something like Flash instead.
> Flash is as closed and proprietary as Silverlight, but at least there
> are relatively good Flash interpreters for a wide range of systems. (And
> isn't there some real cross-platform way to do this stuff?)
I suppose it's up to us to write something in C(++) to run the stuff ;D
James Cunningham
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> [...]
>
> I don't understand why Textfyre didn't use something like Flash instead.
> Flash is as closed and proprietary as Silverlight, but at least there
> are relatively good Flash interpreters for a wide range of systems. (And
> isn't there some real cross-platform way to do this stuff?)
I can't speak for Dave, but Silverlight offers a nicer development
environment---who wants to use ActionScript?---and, in my experience,
*faaar* better performance characteristics on OS X. (Nothing revs my
fan up quite like youtube videos. Really.)
>
> Regards,
> Victor
Best,
James
ChicagoDave
> I caved in an installed Novell's Moonlight as a Firefox plug-in. The
> result is an error message:
>
> "Moonlight was compiled with 1.0 support only.
> This page requires 2.0 support."
My understanding from Miguel is that Moonlight will be 2.0 compatible
in Q109. MS and Novell are pushing very hard on making this happen.
> (Great error message, Novell. What about telling me the 2.0 version of
> _WHAT_ you need?)
>
> So far for Microsoft's promise to make their proprietary technologies
> available cross-platform. (As if we ever believed them.)
I think MS has gone out of their way to make Silverlight work on OS X,
Windows, FireFox, Safari, IE, and Chrome. The fact that they're even
thinking about making it work on Linux with mono and Moonlight should
dispel any crazy conspiracy theories.
> I don't understand why Textfyre didn't use something like Flash instead.
> Flash is as closed and proprietary as Silverlight, but at least there
> are relatively good Flash interpreters for a wide range of systems. (And
> isn't there some real cross-platform way to do this stuff?)
I would have used Flash, but couldn't find anyone to do the work on a
back-ended contract. Heck, I would have used any technology. I'm using
Silverlight because Tenteo was interested in the project from a
technological perspective.
The overriding aspect of all of this is that the existing UI is a
prototype first and a product second. It's going to transition to a
product for some users, but obviously not for desktop Mac users,
iPhone, and other devices. We have more tech work ahead of us.
David C.
Martin Read
>I think MS has gone out of their way to make Silverlight work on OS X,
>Windows, FireFox, Safari, IE, and Chrome. The fact that they're even
>thinking about making it work on Linux with mono and Moonlight should
>dispel any crazy conspiracy theories.
On the contrary, it's prime fodder for most conspiracy theorists.
If Microsoft offer you a gift, start looking for the patent encumbrances
and subtle incompatiblities.
--
\_\/_/ turbulence is certainty turbulence is friction between you and me
\ / every time we try to impose order we create chaos
\/ -- Killing Joke, "Mathematics of Chaos"
Andrew Plotkin
>
> I don't understand why Textfyre didn't use something like Flash instead.
> Flash is as closed and proprietary as Silverlight, but at least there
> are relatively good Flash interpreters for a wide range of systems.
Flash is significantly less closed as of this year; Adobe open-sourced
the Flex SDK and published a Flash spec.
How this compares to Silverlight, I can't really judge. I believe
that's a case of "it's all proprietary, but MS supports the
open-source Mono effort", and I have no idea what that means in
reality.
> (And isn't there some real cross-platform way to do this stuff?)
Both are cross-platform. If you want less proprietary, well, Java is
more cross-platform and less proprietary than either. Except it sucks
for this kind of thing. (Trust me on this.) There are no great
choices. (I had reasons for coming up with the Glulx/Glk stuff, you
know?)
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
ChicagoDave
> Both are cross-platform. If you want less proprietary, well, Java is
> more cross-platform and less proprietary than either. Except it sucks
> for this kind of thing. (Trust me on this.) There are no great
> choices. (I had reasons for coming up with the Glulx/Glk stuff, you
> know?)
I suspect you're quite proud seeing FyreVM/Channel IO. You should be.
I think creating a VM with the IO Layer pluggable enables things like
a Silverlight UI.
David C.
Andrew Plotkin
> On Dec 19, 11:25 am, Andrew Plotkin <erkyr...@eblong.com> wrote:
> > Both are cross-platform. If you want less proprietary, well, Java is
> > more cross-platform and less proprietary than either. Except it sucks
> > for this kind of thing. (Trust me on this.) There are no great
> > choices. (I had reasons for coming up with the Glulx/Glk stuff, you
> > know?)
>
> I suspect you're quite proud seeing FyreVM/Channel IO.
I'll let you know the first time I see it.
ChicagoDave
wrote:
> ChicagoDave <david.cornel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I think MS has gone out of their way to make Silverlight work on OS X,
> >Windows, FireFox, Safari, IE, and Chrome. The fact that they're even
> >thinking about making it work on Linux with mono and Moonlight should
> >dispel any crazy conspiracy theories.
>
> On the contrary, it's prime fodder for most conspiracy theorists.
>
> If Microsoft offer you a gift, start looking for the patent encumbrances
> and subtle incompatiblities.
I would have agreed a few years ago. It seems nowadays MS is bending
over backwards to please everyone that will listen to them, which to
their horror is a gradually smaller audience.
David C.
Otto Grimwald
> If Microsoft offer you a gift, start looking for the patent encumbrances
> and subtle incompatiblities.
I agree.
I wouldn't like to taint my linux system with software such as
silverlight and mono. In addition, the mono implementation will always
lag far behind the microsoft one.
But it runs fine within virtualbox. It's better than nothing. The output
is really nice and appealing, I just regret it uses this kind of technology.
ChicagoDave
<contact_is_on_webs...@anamnese.fr.st> wrote:
> In addition, the mono implementation will always
> lag far behind the microsoft one.
Silverlight 2.0 was released at PDC in October.
Moonlight 2.0 will be released within 4-5 months of that date.
Doesn't seem like a huge lag to me. Since the desktop Linux
marketshare is fairly small, I'd say this is a fairly impressive
achievement.
In any case, using C# via the .NET Framework and Mono is a cost-
efficient methodology. Looking for cross-platform C++ developers to
work on back-ended contracts for text games would simply be
impossible. You have to understand what I'm trying to accomplish and
take that into the context of the resulting product and its available
platforms. In this case, Tenteo offered to help by building a UI in
Silverlight. What was I supposed to do, turn them down? Even if I held
some personal disdain for Microsoft, as a businessman, I'd be an idiot
to turn away from any viable solution.
But the decision to use Silverlight was a good one in all cases. If
one of my target markets is middle schools, then Silverlight might be
a great solution. I can provide access to an entire school system
without any major installations. We can either host it externally or
we can drop a server in the school system that hosts our games and
then it's just a matter of having the SL plug-in installed on all
desktops, no different than Flash is installed. A hosted system also
provides us the ability to implement market-testing and product-
testing without installation issues. Of course Flash would have
potnetially done the same, but I simply couldn't find anyone that
understood the complexities of marrying a VM to a flash front-end. I
could only find the people that knew how to make animations and
websites. That's not good enough for what the things I envision for
Textfyre games.
Of course if you're hell bent on avoiding MS technologies, there's
nothing I can do about that except make such a cool game that you
decide to hold your nose and install Silverlight or Moonlight
_anyway_.
David C.
dott.Piergiorgio
> Martin Read wrote:
>> If Microsoft offer you a gift, start looking for the patent encumbrances
>> and subtle incompatiblities.
>
> I agree.
>
> I wouldn't like to taint my linux system with software such as
> silverlight and mono. In addition, the mono implementation will always
> lag far behind the microsoft one.
Also I agree; The only major proprietary & closed-source piece of sw on
my machines is Java.....
Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.
(P.s. no replies expected ;) )
dott.Piergiorgio
s/Java/Flash
Sorry for the mixing up in my brain...
Nikos Chantziaras
> In rec.games.int-fiction, Victor Gijsbers <vic...@lilith.gotdns.org> wrote:
>> I don't understand why Textfyre didn't use something like Flash instead.
>> Flash is as closed and proprietary as Silverlight, but at least there
>> are relatively good Flash interpreters for a wide range of systems.
>
> Flash is significantly less closed as of this year; Adobe open-sourced
> the Flex SDK and published a Flash spec.
>
> How this compares to Silverlight, I can't really judge. I believe
> that's a case of "it's all proprietary, but MS supports the
> open-source Mono effort", and I have no idea what that means in
> reality.
It means that that MS will not sue Novell over "patent infringement".
There was a deal (many flame wars have been fought over that deal)
between MS and Novell for that. The downside is that if someone else
tries to implement a Moonlight player, MS can sue them because of
software patents.
Nikos Chantziaras
> In any case, using C# via the .NET Framework and Mono is a cost-
> efficient methodology. Looking for cross-platform C++ developers to
> work on back-ended contracts for text games would simply be
> impossible.
Will the source of this be available? (Or is it already?) I don't mean
an Open Source license, just the source under whatever license so
"someone" can port it.
greg
> "Moonlight was compiled with 1.0 support only.
> This page requires 2.0 support."
>
> (Great error message, Novell. What about telling me the 2.0 version of
> _WHAT_ you need?)
Web 2.0, obviously!
--
Greg
Gene Wirchenko
>On Dec 19, 10:43 am, Martin Read <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
>wrote:
[snip]
>> If Microsoft offer you a gift, start looking for the patent encumbrances
>> and subtle incompatiblities.
>
>I would have agreed a few years ago. It seems nowadays MS is bending
>over backwards to please everyone that will listen to them, which to
>their horror is a gradually smaller audience.
They have earned it.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
Adam Thornton
Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net.NOTTHIS> wrote:
>ChicagoDave <david.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Dec 19, 10:43 am, Martin Read <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
>>wrote:
>[snip]
>>> If Microsoft offer you a gift, start looking for the patent encumbrances
>>> and subtle incompatiblities.
>>I would have agreed a few years ago. It seems nowadays MS is bending
>>over backwards to please everyone that will listen to them, which to
>>their horror is a gradually smaller audience.
> They have earned it.
At the risk of inappropriately invoking Mr. Makane, they will only have
earned it when they are bending over forwards.
Adam
Nikos Chantziaras
Don't say such things, it's Christmas.
Gene Wirchenko
We may be using different definitions of "it".
Happy holidays to you and Aimee ". . . and your little dog, too!"
(not so little and, IIRC, you have two). Hmm, I will just edit that
out and say "and family (human and critter)".
mikegentry
> We are talking TEXT here right? I'm missing out on TEXT?
Of course not. If all you care about is TEXT, then you can download
the gamefile from the IF archive and play it on your own interpreter.
ChicagoDave
> As a Mac Power PC user (not Intel), but still using OS 10.4, I am
> limited to Siverlight version 1. From other posts I understand that I
> need version 2. Even though I use Firefox for browsing my choice of OS
> limits me. Updates, forget it. I've been down that road before and I
> don't want to start down another.
>
> We are talking TEXT here right? I'm missing out on TEXT?
I've complained to MS about this and tried to get an answer on whether
PowerPC Mac support was coming and all I got was dead air. But again,
you should view this as Textfyre's Rev1 platform and we will do better
at cross-platform delivery as time passes. We could release our games
in a WinForms terp which may work on everything via Mono. This depends
on whether there's any demand for it.
David C.