Abstract watercolors
Holland Artadvice
ABSTRACT Watercolors, oilpaintings and skulptures.
Hereby we invite you to visit the exhibision of the artist Johann van den
Noort on the website http://home.wxs.nl/~jvdnoort
Kind regards
Holland Artadvice
http://www.hexagon.nl/artadvice
bean...@my-dejanews.com
I just popped in for a quick look at the oil paintings....ooooh nice! I
like, I like! Hope the anti-ab gang here isn't too hard on you. ;-P
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
burnin...@my-dejanews.com
"Holland Artadvice" <jvdn...@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>
> ABSTRACT Watercolors, oilpaintings and skulptures.
Sucks.
> Hereby we invite you to visit the exhibision of the artist Johann van
den
> Noort on the website http://home.wxs.nl/~jvdnoort
>
> Kind regards
> Holland Artadvice
> http://www.hexagon.nl/artadvice
>
>
The Overlord
> Noort on the website http://home.wxs.nl/~jvdnoort
>
> Kind regards
> Holland Artadvice
> http://www.hexagon.nl/artadvice
This is some of the best work I've seen on the web. Professional and
exciting - it moved me. Congratulations. I hope you'll keep adding to
your site.
Things are looking up for modern art! First we had Dan Fox's great abstract
work in the ng, now this. CHECK THIS SITE OUT, FOLKS!
Happily,
The Overlord.
The Overlord
> In article <7hcmsl$vdjm$6...@reader3.wxs.nl>,
> "Holland Artadvice" <jvdn...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ABSTRACT Watercolors, oilpaintings and skulptures.
>
>
Chrome - In this case, I disagree with you. (See my response to the work.)
You've shown yourself to be a man of intelligence and wit in our previous
exchanges. So, I'd be interested in
your analysis of this work (and your objections to abstract work in
general). I mean this seriously - most criticism of any work here is
emotional and arbitrary; intelligent analyses are in short supply and I
would value your opinions, whether I agree or not. Actually, I was going to
ask you for your analysis of abstract vs. figurative art in general when I
got back from NYC, but got busy instead.
I *promise* to respond to your post with my own analysis. Could be
fun.
Regards,
The Overlord
burnin...@my-dejanews.com
It's not so much that it was bad in and of itself.
My primary criteria for abstract work is whether or not I can remember
it several minutes after I've seen it. That is, was it either unique
or did it have a visual impact.
I use this because often it is difficult to comment on the technical
quality of abstracts. Or at least more difficult for me since I
primarily a realist.
This didn't... and, of course, I'm speaking subjectively.
I will acknowledge that, for a water-color, the colors were reasonably
clear. However, here was little of the "happy accident" quality that
watercolors can exhibit.
OK, "Sucks" was probably too harsh.
Let me alter it to "not memorable" and offer my apology for my prior
terse statement.
>
> Regards,
>
> The Overlord
Kay Kane
To Holland Artadvice (nice phony name)
Do NOT keep e-mailing me a piece of your work each day. It takes forever to
download and I have never opened one and never will. QUIT IT!
(and get lost)
Kay
The Overlord wrote in message <19990513094709.855$q...@newsreader.com>...
:"Holland Artadvice" <jvdn...@wxs.nl> wrote:
:> ABSTRACT Watercolors, oilpaintings and skulptures.
:> Hereby we invite you to visit the exhibision of the artist Johann van den
The Overlord
Thanks for your post. My comments below:
burnin...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Chrome - In this case, I disagree with you. (See my response to the
> work.)
> > I *promise* to respond to your post with my own analysis. Could be
> > fun.
>
> It's not so much that it was bad in and of itself.
>
> My primary criteria for abstract work is whether or not I can remember
> it several minutes after I've seen it. That is, was it either unique
> or did it have a visual impact.
This is my main criterion as well. As it happens, I just realized that I
looked at the oils in the website, not the watercolors, so we're talking
about two different sets of work.
>
> I use this because often it is difficult to comment on the technical
> quality of abstracts. Or at least more difficult for me since I
> primarily a realist.
True. The best abstract work has a haunting, memorable quality (for me)
that is difficult to analyze and discuss. However, I find that many of the
same principles of color and composition lend themselves to *some*
abstraction. Similar forms, poor value constrasts, etc., lead to bad
abstraction as well as bad figurative work.
The butt-end of the abstract spectrum is represented by those two
*spirograph* pieces we saw recently. This is a typical case of a guy
saying, *okay, I can't draw or anything, so I'll do abstract because it's
easy.* The result is clear to everyone - bad art (or non-art). Everyone
agrees. So, there is *something* to be measured and evaluated.
If you get a chance, check out the book published
for the deKooning retrospective in 1994 at the Met. In my opinion
the work he did in the eighties reflects the onset of Alzheimer's disease -
you can see the quality deteriorating with time - use of color and form,
values, composition, etc. (On the other hand, some good critics think that
his very last, spare, pieces are his best - so there you are.)
I have no quarrel with realism or figurative art in general, abstraction
is just better suited to my temperament. If I had to pick a
single artist as an all-time favorite, it would have to be Giacometti (the
paintings) - not an abstractionist.
Figurative art is easier to critique, I agree. By the way, saw
some recent (90s) Duane Hanson work in repro today, with a good essay by
Donald Kuspit (whom I usually despise). Fine work. Kuspit concentrated on
Hanson's work as a commentary on American society, which is usually a sappy
cliche route to take - but not in his hands. (Spring issue of Art New
England if you're interested).
>
> This didn't... and, of course, I'm speaking subjectively.
>
> I will acknowledge that, for a water-color, the colors were reasonably
> clear. However, here was little of the "happy accident" quality that
> watercolors can exhibit.
I'll check out the watercolors and get back to ya.
>
> OK, "Sucks" was probably too harsh.
>
> Let me alter it to "not memorable" and offer my apology for my prior
> terse statement.
No apology necessary. But *not memorable* is a more descriptive crit.
Regards,
The Overlord
burnin...@my-dejanews.com
over...@orion.com(The Overlord) wrote:
> Chrome -
>
> Thanks for your post. My comments below:
>
> burnin...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > > Chrome - In this case, I disagree with you. (See my response to
the
> > work.)
>
> > > I *promise* to respond to your post with my own analysis. Could be
> > > fun.
> >
> > It's not so much that it was bad in and of itself.
> >
> > My primary criteria for abstract work is whether or not I can
remember
> > it several minutes after I've seen it. That is, was it either
unique
> > or did it have a visual impact.
>
> This is my main criterion as well. As it happens, I just realized that
I
> looked at the oils in the website, not the watercolors, so we're
talking
> about two different sets of work.
The oils are better.
> >
> > I use this because often it is difficult to comment on the technical
> > quality of abstracts. Or at least more difficult for me since I
> > primarily a realist.
>
> True. The best abstract work has a haunting, memorable quality (for
me)
> that is difficult to analyze and discuss. However, I find that many of
the
> same principles of color and composition lend themselves to *some*
> abstraction. Similar forms, poor value constrasts, etc., lead to bad
> abstraction as well as bad figurative work.
>
> The butt-end of the abstract spectrum is represented by those two
> *spirograph* pieces we saw recently. This is a typical case of a guy
> saying, *okay, I can't draw or anything, so I'll do abstract because
it's
> easy.* The result is clear to everyone - bad art (or non-art).
Everyone
> agrees. So, there is *something* to be measured and evaluated.
>
> If you get a chance, check out the book published
> for the deKooning retrospective in 1994 at the Met.
OK... but my tastes run more toward Wyeth.
Yes. I have a tendency to be abrupt... I am, however, reasonable.
Well, I like to think so :P
If you're interested, I'll e-mail you a copy of my work...
maybe even an abstract watercolor. No, really.
mdeli
>My primary criteria for abstract work is whether or not I can remember
>it several minutes after I've seen it. That is, was it either unique
>or did it have a visual impact.
Well, I can remember a Big red canvas or some striped masterpiece even
a day later. So what.
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
A Skeptical View of Modern Art was updated Jan.16,99
check out my new book, new work, new comments at:.
http://www.interlog.com/~hugod/
The Overlord
I'd love to see your work. I can't give out my real e-mail address here,
but maybe you could post one (or more!) pix at the art binaries group -
I think it's alt.art.binaries, or some such - we can find it. I'll respond
with my own stuff. I guess we can't post pix here, judging from the
shitstorm that followed the other posters.
On the other hand, if you want to post your email address here I'll email
you. Or if you wanna brave the harpies and post here, fine with me. You
pick it, but I would like to see your work.
BTW, I'm not a fan of much of Wyeth, but I thought some of the Helga
watercolors were loose, vibrant, and memorable. (Talk about stuff staying
in your memory - I can recall some of those Helga studies very well, and
that was maybe ten years ago.)
Overlord
The Overlord
> Well, I can remember a Big red canvas or some striped masterpiece even
> a day later. So what.
>
> Mani DeLi
> ...no skill no art
I knew it! You are a closet abstract expressionist. Welcome to the group.
It must be great not to be in denial anymore.
*I'm Mani and I'm an abstract painter.*
*Hi, Mani.*
You can join the AbEx form on line, as well - see the AbEx Forum post in
this group.
The Overlord
President, Cy Twombly Fan Club
Memberships available, Mani. It's okay.
~Artist~
I saw Cys Show only the most sophisticated of viewer will ever get it
and real artists and what it takes to get where they did.
So paint and forget the ignorant.
The best artist is not the best artist.
Mattison
The Overlord
> The Overlord wrote:
> >
> > hug...@interlog.com (mdeli) wrote:
> >
> > > Well, I can remember a Big red canvas or some striped masterpiece
> > > even a day later. So what.
> > >
> > > Mani DeLi
> > The Overlord
> >
> > President, Cy Twombly Fan Club
> > Memberships available, Mani. It's okay.
>
> I saw Cys Show only the most sophisticated of viewer will ever get it
> and real artists and what it takes to get where they did.
Hi, Mattison -
You spoke the truth in a few choice words. The key is that the
unsophisticated viewer will *never* get it. With a few exceptions their
minds are closed, so they will never learn anything.
> So paint and forget the ignorant.
I try. But there are so many of them!
*There are never hundreds of flowers. There are only a few. And the
revenge of the vegetables is inevitable.* - Kasmirez Brandys
The Overlord
> Mattison
~Artist~
==
> Hi, Mattison -
>
Hola Que'tal?
> You spoke the truth in a few choice words. The key is that the
Usually, to break up the drivel bordome of all these people on the
planet who are living sub-boring lives in burbia...
No wonder their kids are killing each other...it is dam boring there.
I took a kid from the ghetto to the ever so remodeled town of MV at
12 she was bored to tears and said our neighborhood is better we
have action.
That action includes drugs murders prostitution and on and on...
Guess they lear it from the adults.
More truth you they can't swallow.
> unsophisticated viewer will *never* get it. With a few exceptions their
> minds are closed, so they will never learn anything.
>
> > So paint and forget the ignorant.
>
> I try. But there are so many of them!
You can take to cutting them off on the freeway Ca Style...
just pick out the most expensive ones and aim or next is good the
really surburbalny bored ones even better. It is getting to be a sport
round here...Beemerbumpers.....
LOL!
>
> *There are never hundreds of flowers. There are only a few. And the
> revenge of the vegetables is inevitable.* - Kasmirez Brandys
I eat vegies for lunch.
LoL!
mdeli
>I knew it! You are a closet abstract expressionist. Welcome to the group.
>It must be great not to be in denial anymore.
> *I'm Mani and I'm an abstract painter.*
> *Hi, Mani.*
Hi booby, glad you approve
>The Overlord -President, Cy Twombly Fan Club
>Memberships available, Mani. It's okay.
I was a member before you. Bravo Twombly
The vast majority of MAAs must share their niche with other
occupants. Twombly has a single occupancy niche. Even the greatest
holys like Picasso or Matisse share there niche with a load of minor
occupants. Indeed minor occupants occupy the cheaper areas but they
live in the same apartment complex. Take the "field" painters for
example. Rheinhardt, Still's, and Rothko
all have to share their niche space with a slew of minor patzers.
(see the artzy fartzy magazines)
However no one who produces the same crap as Twombly has any chance
of winning in the great MAA lottery. Anyone who sees an imitation of
his work immediately classifies it as an imitation. I can name only
three artists who have this quality, Mondrian Pollock and Twombly.
Of these I vastly prefer Twombly because some of his secret techniques
makes him a little harder to imitate. One secret lies in his
knowledge of graffiti. He schmiers colors underneath his chicken
scratches and assorted grade school scrawl. This is seen by Modern
Academic Art practitioners as a brilliant technical innovation. The
result is that Twombly gets wealthy while other artists stay poor.
Bravo Twombly.
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
A Skeptical View of Modern Art was updated Jan.16,99
Glenn Geist
or at least heavily COBRA influenced.
Glenn
TechnoCrate
wrote:
>Is *that who's doing this? It looks to me very much like Karel Appel
>or at least heavily COBRA influenced.
>
I don't think it looks like Appel at all, or someone else of Cobra.
But it shows a remarkable similarity with my throw-away palettes after
use. Perhaps I should start selling them ;-)
burnin...@my-dejanews.com
over...@orion.com(The Overlord) wrote:
> burnin...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > In article <19990513180737.981$f...@newsreader.com>,
> > over...@orion.com(The Overlord) wrote:
>
> > If you're interested, I'll e-mail you a copy of my work...
> > maybe even an abstract watercolor. No, really.
>
> I'd love to see your work. I can't give out my real e-mail address
here,
> but maybe you could post one (or more!) pix at the art binaries group
-
> I think it's alt.art.binaries, or some such - we can find it. I'll
respond
> with my own stuff. I guess we can't post pix here, judging from the
> shitstorm that followed the other posters.
>
> On the other hand, if you want to post your email address here I'll
> you.
If it doesn't say "Money Fast" in the title, I do scan stuff sent
to this ID.
burnin...@my-dejanews.com
hug...@interlog.com (mdeli) wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 1999 18:51:10 GMT, burnin...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >My primary criteria for abstract work is whether or not I can
remember
> >it several minutes after I've seen it. That is, was it either unique
> >or did it have a visual impact.
>
> a day later. So what.
"Memorable" has connotations other than "recall".
I intentionally did not use "recall".
I can recall many works I do not find "memorable."
burnin...@my-dejanews.com
even
> > > a day later. So what.
> > >
> > > ...no skill no art
> >
group.
> > It must be great not to be in denial anymore.
> > *I'm Mani and I'm an abstract painter.*
> > *Hi, Mani.*
> >
post in
> > this group.
> >
> > The Overlord
> >
> > Memberships available, Mani. It's okay.
>
> and real artists and what it takes to get where they did.
>
LOL :P
"A well-used butcher's apron."
>
> The best artist is not the best artist.
>
> Mattison
>