to Mani re: Artist of the Century
Dorothy Schneider
> someone said:
> >> He [Picasso] was alone, above the crowd on his olympian
> >> heights. I agree that not everything the man did was
> >> a great masterpiece, and that he was obsessed with two
> >> images, women & bulls.
>
> ..Neither of which he could draw well. Picasso was a second rate
> cartoonist.
WHAT?!?!?! You don't know what you're talking about here!! Have you
seen
Picasso's works from when he was younger??? He was a child prodigy!!! I
am by no
means a huge Picasso "fan" but cripe, get your facts straight! Do your
research
before you make statements like this.
Bob Parsons
Oh, Oh. Now you've done it. Brace yourself for a long thread from
mani! Hey, it'll be refreshing to read something really about art
in the group that has now become rec.arts.fine-political for a
change :-)
--
Bob Parsons
Remember, keep smiling....that way they'll never know what you're up
to!
(To reply via e-mail remove the first "dot")
Dorothy Schneider
would think differently for someone who places "no skill no art" in their sig.
mark webber
> Oh, Oh. Now you've done it. Brace yourself for a long thread from
> mani! Hey, it'll be refreshing to read something really about art
> in the group that has now become rec.arts.fine-political for a
> change :-)
>
> --
> Bob Parsons
>
Right on Bob. This group has been hijacked by political goofballs. Let
"idle hands" (the translation of his pig latin anagramatic screen name,
I'm sure you know) blast away.
And when the other dolts who came out of the woodwork to talk
politics decide to crawl back into their kneejerk holes, we can rip
him a new one for being as shallow as he is narrow.
Webber
Kay Kane
emat...@tomatoweb.com wrote in message <7bkqf4$9o6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <36DDC5A9...@worldnet.att.net>,
> re...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>> Dorothy Schneider wrote:
>> >
>> > > someone said:
>> > > >> He [Picasso] was alone, above the crowd on his olympian
>> > > >> heights. I agree that not everything the man did was
>> > > >> a great masterpiece, and that he was obsessed with two
>> > > >> images, women & bulls.
>> > >
>> > > ..Neither of which he could draw well. Picasso was a second rate
>> > > cartoonist.
>> >
>> > WHAT?!?!?! You don't know what you're talking about here!! Have you
>> > seen
>> > Picasso's works from when he was younger??? He was a child prodigy!!!
I
>> > am by no
>> > means a huge Picasso "fan" but cripe, get your facts straight! Do your
>> > research
>> > before you make statements like this.
>>
>> mani! Hey, it'll be refreshing to read something really about art
>> in the group that has now become rec.arts.fine-political for a
>> change :-)
>>
>> --
>> Bob Parsons
>>
>
was
>also about artist's getting money -- and obviously everyone's keen on that
>idea (at least artists).
>
>--Erik Mattila
>
That's not what I read. It looked like about 1/2 & 1/2 from rec.arts.fine.
Burningchrome was his usual incoherent livid self (against funding).
DFRussel was against. Can't remember the rest. I hope it has died a quick
death. Good other threads though. Can't wait for Mani's reply to this!
(Has anyone seen or done something to Gabriel?)
Kay
P.S. Really enjoyed your Adobe threads. Technical, but informative. (I
could have the name screwed up...)
Dorothy Schneider
I laughed so hard at the phrase "political monster thread". It hit my funny
bone. Thanks! :)
> Boy, howdy, Bob. But look at it this way -- the political monster thread was
> also about artist's getting money -- and obviously everyone's keen on that
> idea (at least artists).
>
> --Erik Mattila
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
emat...@tomatoweb.com
re...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> Dorothy Schneider wrote:
> >
> > > someone said:
> > > >> He [Picasso] was alone, above the crowd on his olympian
> > > >> heights. I agree that not everything the man did was
> > > >> a great masterpiece, and that he was obsessed with two
> > > >> images, women & bulls.
> > >
> > > ..Neither of which he could draw well. Picasso was a second rate
> > > cartoonist.
> >
> > WHAT?!?!?! You don't know what you're talking about here!! Have you
> > seen
> > Picasso's works from when he was younger??? He was a child prodigy!!! I
> > am by no
> > means a huge Picasso "fan" but cripe, get your facts straight! Do your
> > research
> > before you make statements like this.
>
> Oh, Oh. Now you've done it. Brace yourself for a long thread from
> mani! Hey, it'll be refreshing to read something really about art
> in the group that has now become rec.arts.fine-political for a
> change :-)
>
> --
> Bob Parsons
>
Boy, howdy, Bob. But look at it this way -- the political monster thread was
emat...@tomatoweb.com
"Kay Kane" <scarl...@theriver.com> wrote:
> That's not what I read. It looked like about 1/2 & 1/2 from rec.arts.fine.
> Burningchrome was his usual incoherent livid self (against funding).
> DFRussel was against. Can't remember the rest. I hope it has died a quick
> death. Good other threads though. Can't wait for Mani's reply to this!
> (Has anyone seen or done something to Gabriel?)
> Kay
> P.S. Really enjoyed your Adobe threads. Technical, but informative. (I
> could have the name screwed up...)
>
>
Gawd, Kay, you're actually admitting that you read that much of that thread
to criticize my characterisation of it? I only read it superficially (strut,
strut, strut). Actually, I did some sample readings to see if the topic of
the public support of art during the early days of the USSR came up -- but it
doesn't seem to have. You know, the era of Constructivism. A few years back
there was an exhibit of 'utility art' from this era and it was wonderful.
Absolutely beautiful textiles that from a distance looked like Hawaiian
prints but up close were picture of tractors and machinery. Wow. (I'm
serious).
So this is when Wassily Kandinsky dumped Gabriele Münter and returned to
Russia to cash-in on the Revolution and actually get paid by the state to be
an artist. (What a joik, eh?) He got a job in a museum, and he was sent to
the Crimea to catalog Crimean folk art. He claims he got the idea for
abstract painting there, inside a farmhouse, which had every surface painted
in abstract folkart designs (common practice on the Northern shores of the
Black Sea). He imagined what it would be like to be inside of a painting,
totally emmersed.
Anyway, the thread didn't go in that direction. Too bad. We have
non-objective painting as a gift from the public support of the arts.
mdeli
>> someone said:
>> >> He [Picasso] was alone, above the crowd on his olympian
>> >> heights. I agree that not everything the man did was
>> >> a great masterpiece, and that he was obsessed with two
>> >> images, women & bulls.
>>
>> ..Neither of which he could draw well. Picasso was a second rate
>> cartoonist.
>
>WHAT?!?!?! You don't know what you're talking about here!! Have you
>seen
>Picasso's works from when he was younger???
I sure have and I see nothing special. Check out the 19th century and
average students drawings from this period.
> He was a child prodigy!!! I
So say the critics but the work doesn't verify it. He was ahead for
his age because his father was an art teacher. As a teen he was
advanced. However he never got any better. Of course by the standards
of the modern crap presently allowed in museums he's a genius. However
compared to the fine work which isn't allowed in museums he's a second
rate cartoonist.
As an example compare his line drawings to Al Hershfield's, who is ten
times as original and skilled and expressed more than a repetitive
incompetent parody on classical art.
>am by no
>means a huge Picasso "fan" but cripe, get your facts straight! Do your
>research before you make statements like this.
Take a close look at Picasso and compare it to some other work. I'll
repeat some Picasso criticism and you can check it out.
If you have lived in NYC as I did you would have seen Picasso ad
nauseum. I like many here was brought up on the Picasso religion.
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
A Skeptical View of Modern Art was updated Jan.16,99
check out my new book, new work, new comments at:.
http://www.interlog.com/~hugod/
Ariane
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, mdeli wrote:
> If you have lived in NYC as I did you would have seen Picasso ad
> nauseum. I like many here was brought up on the Picasso religion.
=== Maybe that's less the fault of Picasso the artist than it is the
character and climate of the NYC arts scene. Picasso has little, no, he
has absolutely nothing to do with the manner in which New Yorkers
incorporate art into their particular society. Blame NY for making
Picasso into a religion, not Picasso.
Dorothy Schneider
Who said that applied art is "banned from museums"? Can you back
up this statement?
mdeli wrote:
Dorothy Schneider wrote:
If you have lived in NYC as I did you would have seen Picasso ad
nauseum. I like many here was brought up on the Picasso religion.
Mani DeLi
Kay Kane
Picasso" and while I don't dispute his greatness, he doesn't "make the earth
move" as many others do for me. I guess it is the excitement of finding out
about an artist you haven't heard about all of your life, kind of like the
excitement of the "new" discovery by oneself. I am not a fan but I don't
dispute his genius. I find my aesthetic excitement from other artists,
though.
Kay
Dorothy Schneider wrote in message
<36DF5102...@popmail.csuohio.edu>...
Kay Kane
emat...@tomatoweb.com wrote in message <7blqb2$40c$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
the Depression which supported many women artists & artists of color such as
Alice Neel, a few women photographers (I'm too lazy to go look up the names
and don't want to get flamed if I put the wrong ones down), and many others
from a sub-group here in the U.S. of A. By sub-group I mean it was in
conjunction with WPA but had other initials. A wonderful time to be an
artist! Didn't know about Russian support and I didn't know that
Constructivism was ever representational... Didn't Popova lead the Russian
? movement.. (not Suprematism - that was Mondrian)... The only name in the
Constructivist movement in Russia that comes to mind is Tatlin & Naum Gabo.
Please advise.
Oh, I remember the initials that subsidized U.S. photographers, Farm
Securitys Adminisration (FSA) - Dorothea Lange, Berenice Abbott, etc. I
think a different set of ABC's were for painters who did murals, mainly.
Don't ever loan out your books!!! Relying on memory is unreliable:-)
Kay Kane
emat...@tomatoweb.com
I didn't mean that the Constructivists produced the textile designs -- these
artists operated in a state funded program that was very broad with many
divisions, some of which were programmed with the Bauhaus model in mind (i.e.
industrial arts.) There were print making programs, textile, utinsils,
graphic arts, as well as Art. The only name I can remember besides the ones
you mention is Rodochenko, and yes, Popova was a dynamic force within the
Constructivists (as I recall). And of course the Soviet's had a commitment
to degenderizing artist production, so there were many women employed by
these programs. Paralleling this 'hands-on' aspect was of course the state
subsidy for art criticism, producing the body of theory that's generally
described as "Russian Formalism" which still holds an important place in the
history of modern critical theory. Unfortunately Joseph Stalin was waiting in
the wings to destroy this little 'northern renaissance' which he eventually
replaced with what we know regard as 'official Soviet art.' It will be
interesting to see what happens in Russia in the next few years in the art
scene.
Erik
emat...@tomatoweb.com
> > mani! Hey, it'll be refreshing to read something really about art
> > in the group that has now become rec.arts.fine-political for a
> > change :-)
> >
> > --
> > Bob Parsons
> >
>
> "idle hands" (the translation of his pig latin anagramatic screen name,
> I'm sure you know) blast away.
>
> And when the other dolts who came out of the woodwork to talk
> politics decide to crawl back into their kneejerk holes, we can rip
> him a new one for being as shallow as he is narrow.
>
> Webber
>
visualize it. I keep coming up with a 'black hole.'
Erik Mattila
mark webber
> After reading 'as shallow as narrow' several times, I'm still trying to
> visualize it. I keep coming up with a 'black hole.'
>
> Erik Mattila
Black Hole is accurate thusly: Shallow, Narrow *and* Extremely Dense.
Black Hole is inaccurate thusly: Weighty and of intense interest to both
mature thinkers and children.
By the way Erik, I've been enjoying your writing here.
Webber
mdeli
<da_l...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
>On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, mdeli wrote:
>
>> If you have lived in NYC as I did you would have seen Picasso ad
>> nauseum. I like many here was brought up on the Picasso religion.
>
>=== Maybe that's less the fault of Picasso the artist than it is the
>character and climate of the NYC arts scene.
?
> Picasso has little, no, he
>has absolutely nothing to do with the manner in which New Yorkers
>incorporate art into their particular society.
Who said he did?
> Blame NY for making
>Picasso into a religion, not Picasso.
Where did I blame Picasso?
I even like aspects of Picasso: a great con-man and the worlds
greatest schlock artist. Unlike a lot of other not very bright moderns
who reveal their shallowness by talking about the practically nothing
they produce, Picasso was wise enough to say very little. He had a
genius for leading the holy critics on by being elusive. He knew that
the critics were far better at Artspeak then he was. There lay his
genius. In fact what little he did say was dangerously honest and I
suspect he was told to shut up lest it effect his market. .
Marilyn
I thought "idle hand" was a bilingual anagram.
mark webber
Hi Marilyn,
His last name is an anagram of "idle", and his first name is some romance
language translation of "hands". It could be a provincial dialect, but
I'll call it pig-latin because that seems easiest and most fitting.
In fact, I let all readers in on a little secret, since we're having
trouble ejecting the politicians and r.a.f. is in a period of relaxation
of tabu.
He isn't even human. (How could he be?) "He" is simply a very
sophisticated program. This is easily seen. There are no new thoughts -
only rehashing of the same bitter misunderstandings, the same antagonistic
challenges to anything "he" doesn't understand.
So it is clear that, in order to spam "his" anti-modern web page, this
program randomly selects a post in this newsgroup, "replies" to it by
accusing the poster of "artzy-fartzy" speak and "shmear-love", and closes
with the usual spam about the web page.
"He" is just a virus with idle hands.
with warmth,
Mark
Marilyn
Hi Mark,
This posting is addictive, and I've got something really interesting on
my drawing board where I should be. Oh well one day, it will be cold
turkey for me.
en francais: main
He secretly admires Picasso but cannot understand his work.
That's what I think.
Marilyn
mark webber
> en francais: main
Ah bon! Vous avez raison. Merci. Maintenant, tout l'histoire est complete.
a bientot!
Mark