Advise on sketching/drawing materials for oil painting
theun...@comcast.net
I am very interested and motivated about oil painting and have some
problems starting. I would like to make a sketch/drawing on canvas
before starting to block in the first layer of colors but am confused
about the method and materials to use to create this drawing.
I am not sure which methods are apropriate and would like to know some
of the advantages/disadvantages for each of these methods. I would
really appreciate some comments on the following methods as an
underdrawing for oil painting:
1) Charcoal: What kind of charcoal would I use (willow, vine, graphite,
colored charcoal, etc...)?
2) Pencil: Is it appropriate for sketching underneath oil?
3) Oil pastels: Is it possible, or would it blend too much with the oil
paint, or would the oil paint not stick on top of the pastel area's?
4) Ink - What kind of ink, and what to use to apply the ink?
5) Chalk: I've seen some sketching is done using chalk. Could it be
used as an underdrawing?
6) Brush pens?
Which of those methods is the prefered method and why?
Thanks in advance.
CB
help I've posted what I know below, interleaved with your questions. A good
deal also depends on your painting technique.
<theun...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1156785604.6...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I am very interested and motivated about oil painting and have some
> problems starting. I would like to make a sketch/drawing on canvas
> before starting to block in the first layer of colors but am confused
> about the method and materials to use to create this drawing.
> I am not sure which methods are apropriate and would like to know some
> of the advantages/disadvantages for each of these methods. I would
> really appreciate some comments on the following methods as an
> underdrawing for oil painting:
>
> 1) Charcoal: What kind of charcoal would I use (willow, vine, graphite,
> colored charcoal, etc...)?
Soft (Willow/vine charcoal) works very well, and has been tested for ages.
You have to be careful though to remove as much loose charcoal as possible
after you have completed the drawing - blow off as much as possible, and
then use a kneaded eraser or some ballon bread (like Wonder) to get the
charcoal remaining down to the lest amount you need to move on. Otherwise
the charcoal will mix into the paint layer as you apply it, which in itself
is not necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of.
> 2) Pencil: Is it appropriate for sketching underneath oil?
This generally considered a Bad Thing, as graphite can (or at least is
reported to) migrate into or through the oil layers. This isn't first hand
experience on my part. OTOH, pencil offers the ability to do much finer
detail than say charcoal, one option is to do a light underdrawing in
pencil, retrace it in ink, and then erase the pencil. Too much work for me
though....
> 3) Oil pastels: Is it possible, or would it blend too much with the oil
> paint, or would the oil paint not stick on top of the pastel area's?
Oil pastels do mix to some degree with the oil paint, depending on how hard
you work the oil layers, and how much you thin your paint. I've heard that
over time you can run into trouble as oil pastels don't set the same way
that oil paints do, and for this sort of thing the oil sticks are more
recommended.
> 4) Ink - What kind of ink, and what to use to apply the ink?
I've used regular india ink, as well as the Pelican drawing inks, and never
had a problem with them mixing into the paint. However, if you paint thinly,
you might find that the ink lines hard to cover. Again, not necessarily a
bad thing, since you can also incorporate the ink lines into work itself.
> 5) Chalk: I've seen some sketching is done using chalk. Could it be
> used as an underdrawing?
I would treat chalk the same way as charcoal; making sure that any lose
chalk is removed before painting, and be aware that some of it will probably
mix into the first paint layers as you apply them. But structurally the
addition of small amounts of chalk should't create a problem (it was
historically occassionally added to flake white to brighten the white for
highlights, and cheap student grade paints sometimes use it as a filler).
> 6) Brush pens?
>
This would really depend on the type of ink they use. (I don't use them at
all, since I find them very expensive for the amount of drawing one can do
with them).
> Which of those methods is the prefered method and why?
>
Personally, I like charcoal the best, and india inks next, though it depends
on the type of work you are doing. I tend to do my first layer as a
grisaille in dead colours, and the addition of some charcoal from the
drawing actually seems to help that. As for ink, the big problem is that
once you lay it down, it's immovable (unlike charcoal, which can be removed
altogether or pushed around either at the drawing stage or the grisaille
stage) so I hope you are a good draughts-person :)
> Thanks in advance.
>
Hope you get some more complete responses....
Cheers;
CB
theun...@comcast.net
Thanks for the great response.
I think I'll start with charcoal, because like you said, it's easy to
manipulate afterwards and make changes if necessary.
I've been reading for weeks now and scrolling through articles, books,
demos, and tutorials about oil painting and have my white canvas
standing in front of me inside the garage and been staring at it.
Everytime I want to start putting paint on my palette I get confused
about the step after, and so keep reading more until I know what to do
next and to understand all the things one needs to know. So, now I am
at the point of creating the drawing and hopefully I can start painting
soon.
Thanks,
Michel
Bob C
> Hi,
>
> I am very interested and motivated about oil painting and have some
> problems starting. I would like to make a sketch/drawing on canvas
> before starting to block in the first layer of colors but am confused
Just to add 2 comments to what CB already gave you:
1. A lot of people do their sketching with the oil paint itself,
painting very thinly and typically using something like raw umber
diluted with odorless mineral spirits. You can easily wipe it off with a
rag to make changes. It not only is completely compatible with what
comes later, it becomes part of the painting process. You rough out the
outlines, block in the shadows with a thin, translucent application and
then begin adding highlights with a thick, opaque application of paint.
> 5) Chalk: I've seen some sketching is done using chalk. Could it be
> used as an underdrawing?
If you're talking about old master drawings you've seen which are
designated as "chalk", they aren't talking about what we call chalk now.
The closest thing to that available today (that I know of) is Conte
crayons and pencils. I don't know what the ramifications of using it as
a sketch under oil is except that you'd clearly want to use it very
lightly because it has a waxy base which would make a poor painting
surface if it was built up to any degree.
- Bob C.
snowartist
snowartist
Hi,
You are getting good advice so far, and I would like to add one thing.
After you do your sketch. Spray it with a fixative. It keeps the
charcoal or pencil from smearing.
Good luck with your painting.
snowartist
theun...@comcast.net
The sketching with the oil paint itself is probably the best way to go
in terms of 'compatibility'. What I've read so far, most people start
off like that, but I don't think I'm quite there yet or feel
comfortable enough using paint at this point before I have a general
layout of my composition on canvas in some other medium (I guess I'm
too scared to paint that first edge, mess it up, and have to do it all
over again haha).
I hope I can skip this stage some day and do the drawing directly using
paint.
Thank you so much everybody who responded. You really helped me out
here and got me going again.
Michel
jesp...@gmail.com
it, we dont have time for this, make a start, make some mistakes, stand
back and look at it, it might be better than when you first started,
com-on-mate, live a little.
Shalom
Jesper
http://www.whitepage.com.au/jespersa
jesp...@gmail.com
making something you can brag about to your non-intelligent friends.
Use Charcoal, Pencil, Oil pastels,Ink, Chalk, Brush Pens and use them
altogether, now, take a digital photograph of it and afterwards burn
it, and then you start again, why do you seek others approval all the
f****** time, are you insecure ? get a day job, in a shop !
Shalom
Jesper
jesp...@gmail.com
jesp...@gmail.com
your mind ?
Just do it ! and be happy with the end result, who knows someone might
want to buy it.
Then you'll think all your Christmas's have come at once. Go for it ...
please.
Shalom
Jesper
CB
<jesp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156828090.6...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Tell her she is dreaming.
> Shalom
> Jesper
Out of curiosity, why is it that Bible thumpers like you and Bill crawl out
from under your respective antipodal rocks to rant in wholly disconnected
ways to simple questions like the OP's ? It's very curious.
As for the "Shalom" - or in Bill's case "Have a nice day", I'll close with
Maybe you both seriously need to consider getting laid, and in the meantime,
leave the sheep in your case, and cows in Bill's, alone.
CB
Erik A. Mattila
> <jesp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1156828090.6...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Tell her she is dreaming.
>>Shalom
>>Jesper
>
>
> Out of curiosity, why is it that Bible thumpers like you and Bill crawl out
> from under your respective antipodal rocks to rant in wholly disconnected
> ways to simple questions like the OP's ? It's very curious.
>
> As for the "Shalom" - or in Bill's case "Have a nice day", I'll close with
>
> Maybe you both seriously need to consider getting laid, and in the meantime,
> leave the sheep in your case, and cows in Bill's, alone.
>
> CB
And did you notice that both, on a different thread, called for burning
artwork. Kind of makes you wonder...
EAM
David Clemons
charcoal. I'd prefer to use light marks of soft pastel or conte crayons
which use pigments that would mix better with the paint than carbon flakes
of charcoal. Graphite is not as easy to cover up or erase, even hard leads,
but metalpoints offer a decent alternative as they stay put on the surface
better. Oil pastels are made from a non-drying oil that would not be good to
use in this case, but there are oil bars/sticks that are made with drying
oils (linseed) that would be fine. I'd avoid inks altogether, unless they
were the ox-gall bistre or carbon/shellac variety; certainly not Sharpies or
markers that have dyes and solvents that would migrate up through the paint.
Oil-based inks can mix into the paint. A thin wash of India ink or sumi-e I
might use this way; although, I'm not sure why I'd want to.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
housemouse.net
convenient way to sketch out a painting outdoors, without carrying
paint materials.
DublinPainter
I won't repeat some of the good advice offered.. but to add my own
perspective...
If you are getting into painting for the first time, I would encourage
you to join an art group - I did that rather than a class. I got to
meet new and experienced painters and the questions that you raised are
the kinds of things we all spoke about..
Secondly, I think it can be daunting standing in front of a white
canvas.. but I would strongly reccomend experimenting and playing with
what you are doing. The trouble is that it can be very wxpensive using
ready primed and stretched canvases. A cheaper way is to buy some
canvas textured paper from the art shop. It comes in a pad and is quite
cheap and comes in various sizes. Then tape a sheet to the canvas. The
fact that it is cheap means that you can let yourself go a bit. It
doesn't matter whathappens therafter. You will be relaxed and, I would
suggest, be a little more creative.
As for materials. It does not matter what you use. Art Brut is
something fascinating to loo at. Check it out at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art . These works were created by
using anything to hand. Including charcoal, and oil paint, and canvas,
cardboard, pencil etc etc. It really does not matter.
I would be careful about trying to get other people's approval. Even
good friends may put you down by their less than fulsome praise!
Whatever you do, have fun!
DP
knokney
theun...@comcast.net wrote:
> of the advantages/disadvantages for each of these methods. I would
> really appreciate some comments on the following methods as an
> underdrawing for oil painting:
> 1) Charcoal: What kind of charcoal would I use (willow, vine, graphite,
> colored charcoal, etc...)?
Charcoal is dirty but it is probably most traditional... It depends on
what you do... and the answere is vine!
> 2) Pencil: Is it appropriate for sketching underneath oil?
Pencil does finer detail than charcoal can... It is picked up easily
by oil though so what you can do is paint over it with a some oil
primer, lead, or titanium, a small filbert scrumbled in works best and
this fixes the pencil so it wont be picked up in the underpainting...
This technically makes it a grafite tinted white oil layer too instead
of the graffite layer which would make a microscopic weakness in the
surface.
> 3) Oil pastels: Is it possible, or would it blend too much with the oil
> paint, or would the oil paint not stick on top of the pastel area's?
Pastel never hardens so it would either need to scrumbled in
> 4) Ink - What kind of ink, and what to use to apply the ink?
India ink is traditional but that was when gelatine and chalk size was
used... now acrylic is the main thing used so who knows how it will
effect the paint years later...
> 5) Chalk: I've seen some sketching is done using chalk. Could it be
> used as an underdrawing?
Sure but scrumble it in with primer before painting on it...
> 6) Brush pens?
>
> Which of those methods is the prefered method and why?
India ink and charcoal or the most traditional...
Pencil gives the most detail....
You can creat a sketch in oil or colored gesso if you want.
> Thanks in advance.