Question about safe alternatives to oil paint thinners and cleaners...
Robert Wheaton Jr.
wondering if there are any safe thinners available.
A local college art teacher stopped in to notify us that they are not
accepting the alternatives that we have to offer, and suggested a brand
that they issue the students at the start of the year called Livos.
I did a quick search on the net to see what this stuff was, and found
the site livos.com unavailable and a few suppliers with vague
descriptions. The products that I came across didn't appear all that
safe to me.
Spoke with a few Winsor and Newton reps at work and they said the
citrus type of thinners/cleaners are not safe at all....the art teacher
did say that this particular Livos product was not a citrus type but did
have a very slight lemon scent...
So, from all this confusion, is there a safe alternative oil
thinner/cleaner that can be suggested to the local college?
Bob
oil-less in New York
chris
reasonable care, and if the school is unable to do so itself (which is
all you need for most products) I would suggest children's finger
paints.
CB
Monk E. Shyne
caldwell...@gmail.com says...
>
>If they aren't capable of teaching their students to work with
>reasonable care, and if the school is unable to do so itself (which is
>all you need for most products) I would suggest children's finger
>paints.
>CB
Or using all water-based paints! I suppose then the school
could worry about whether the students might actually
contaminate their drinking water! Or whatever it is
students drink these days. ;)
Bob C
> I have just recently started working in an art store/gallery and was
> wondering if there are any safe thinners available. ...
Safety is relative. Odorless Mineral Spirits (OMS) are way safer than
turpentine but still need to be used with caution (although, to the best
of my knowledge, turpentine is still unsurpassed for dissolving natural
resins and cleaning really gunked up brushes, but alkyd resins work fine
with OMS). Turpenoid is the cheapest but Gamsol claims to be a bit safer.
>
> Spoke with a few Winsor and Newton reps at work and they said the
> citrus type of thinners/cleaners are not safe at all....
D-Limonene, which is citrus based, may be as bad or even worse than
turpentine based on some charts I've seen. Turpenoid Natural, which also
has a citrus odor, is possibly the only thinner which can truly be
considered non-toxic, but it's only suitable for cleaning and not for
painting with.
- Bob C.
chris
Monk E. Shyne wrote:
> Or using all water-based paints! I suppose then the school
> could worry about whether the students might actually
> contaminate their drinking water! Or whatever it is
> students drink these days. ;)
LoL...hmm, alcohol based paint? could be interesting...BTW, I remember
reading that in the late 19th/early 20th century - when there was quite
a drive on in France to get artists to work safely - it wasn't the oil
painters that were suffering, but the watercolorists, with their habit
of pointing their brushes with their mouths. I just figure it was
Darwin at work again....
Personally, I find linseed oil much more irritating than turps (
corrected, of course, by proper ventilation). But to teach oil painting
without them would be a bit like teaching drivers ed without using
cars.
Cheers;
CB
Monk E. Shyne
caldwell...@gmail.com says...
>Personally, I find linseed oil much more irritating than turps (
>corrected, of course, by proper ventilation). But to teach oil painting
>without them would be a bit like teaching drivers ed without using
>cars.
>Cheers;
>CB
I have no idea why any oil painter would choose to use
turpentine, in spite of its VERY slight contributions
to the matured painting. I have never used anything other
than MINERAL SPIRITS - aka paint thinner with linseed oil.
The one and only time I need to use turpentine is for making
my own damar varnish since it's the only thing that will
dissolve damar crystals. But once dissolved, I cut the
varnish with SPIRITS if needed.
chris
> turpentine, in spite of its VERY slight contributions
> to the matured painting. I have never used anything other
> than MINERAL SPIRITS - aka paint thinner with linseed oil.
> The one and only time I need to use turpentine is for making
> my own damar varnish since it's the only thing that will
> dissolve damar crystals. But once dissolved, I cut the
> varnish with SPIRITS if needed.
Force of habit, I suppose. I actually love the smell of turps (unlike
linseed oil) & grew up in a house full of both. Do you see any
advantages in mineral spirits (other than it can also double as bbque
starter fluid)?
Monk E. Shyne
caldwell...@gmail.com says...
\
>Force of habit, I suppose. I actually love the smell of turps (unlike
>linseed oil) & grew up in a house full of both. Do you see any
>advantages in mineral spirits (other than it can also double as bbque
>starter fluid)?
The only real advantage I know of is not being faced
with allergic reactions to turpentine. I know that some
people develop sensitivity over time. I personally don't
care for the pungent odor. Most mineral spirits are
virtually odorless - in my experience. No need to pay
extra for the so-called "odorless" sold to artists, IMO.
That isn't to imply that mineral spirits are any safer
to use - just not as prone to be irritant as turpentine is.
Also, the few times I've tried to use "turpenoid" and
the citrus-fruit thinners I've found them very problematic
in the way they work with oil paints, compared to regular
paint thinner/spirits.
Gary
Have you tried zest-it? Its apparently very safe to use when compared
with the more widely used mineral spirits - at least thats what its
website says - www.zest-it.com
I've been using it for a few months now and find it good for both
cleaning and painting.
Bob C
> In article <1132798527.8...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> caldwell...@gmail.com says...
>>Force of habit, I suppose. I actually love the smell of turps (unlike
>>linseed oil) & grew up in a house full of both. Do you see any
>>advantages in mineral spirits (other than it can also double as bbque
>>starter fluid)?
>>
> The only real advantage I know of is not being faced
> with allergic reactions to turpentine.
The OSHA permissible levels of turpentine vapor exposure are about 1/2
to 1/3 that of odorless mineral spirits, but the evaporation rate is
much higher (as much as 5 times as great), so there's also much more of
the vapor in the air when using it. There are a number of possible ill
health effects associated with it, some of them caused by long term
exposure and not just immediate allergic reactions. If that weren't
enough, turpentine is also absorbed directly into the skin while
odorless mineral spirits aren't.
- Bob C.
Thur
"Bob C" <bob...@erols.com> wrote in message news:438721...@erols.com...
> absorbed directly into the skin while odorless mineral spirits aren't.
some legislation?
I ask because there are any amount of such
materials about that are hazardous.
For myself, they all get me asthmatic.
--
Thur
Marc Sabatella
> corrected, of course, by proper ventilation). But to teach oil
> painting
> without them would be a bit like teaching drivers ed without using
> cars.
Almost, but not quite. From what I have read, artists painted in oil
without turps (or any other similar solvent) for centuries, using *oil*
as their medium and for cleaning their brushes. This is what the
MGraham company advocates (and, since their own paintings are walnut oil
based, they promote use of walnut oil in particular, but I know other
artists who use linseed or other oils for this too). It's just that
this approach has been out of fashion the last couple of centuries.
I've been using it for two years now, and it works fine, although I
can't say that I get my brushes as clean as most people do - I should
really wash them with soap and water after cleaning with oil, and an
occassional bath in spirits or citrus solvent would be a great idea too.
---------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
Music, art, & educational materials
Featuring "A Jazz Improvisation Primer"
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Mahmoud In My Dinner Jacket
Robert Wheaton Jr. wrote:
> I have just recently started working in an art store/gallery and was
> wondering if there are any safe thinners available.
Don't try the Atkins diet.
chris
Marc Sabatella wrote:
> Almost, but not quite. From what I have read, artists painted in oil
> without turps (or any other similar solvent) for centuries, using *oil*
> as their medium and for cleaning their brushes. This is what the
> MGraham company advocates (and, since their own paintings are walnut oil
> based, they promote use of walnut oil in particular, but I know other
> artists who use linseed or other oils for this too). It's just that
> this approach has been out of fashion the last couple of centuries.
> I've been using it for two years now, and it works fine, although I
> can't say that I get my brushes as clean as most people do - I should
> really wash them with soap and water after cleaning with oil, and an
> occassional bath in spirits or citrus solvent would be a great idea too.
>
Good point Marc - and I often use vegetable oil for cleaning brushes at
the end of the day, followed by a little soap and water. It works fine.
It was someone on this list IIRC who clued me into this, probably Jax.
Cheers;
Chris
Monk E. Shyne
caldwell...@gmail.com says...
>Good point Marc - and I often use vegetable oil for cleaning brushes at
>the end of the day, followed by a little soap and water. It works fine.
>It was someone on this list IIRC who clued me into this, probably Jax.
>
>Cheers;
>Chris
If you mean this "Jax" it wasn't me. I have mentioned that
I use waterless hand cleaner after first cleaning brushes
in mineral spirits. The hand cleaner is great for other
cleanups as well - not confined to grease from working on
the family car!
Robert Wheaton Jr.
The best answer is clean up with vegetable oil followed by soap and
water...
and thin your oil colors with linseed oil.
After talking with a few of the artist that come into the store, that is
the safest and proper procedure for thinning artists oils and cleaning
brushes.
Thanks again,
Bob
Monk E. Shyne
says...
>and thin your oil colors with linseed oil.
>
>After talking with a few of the artist that come into the store, that is
>the safest and proper procedure for thinning artists oils and cleaning
>brushes.
>
>Thanks again,
>Bob
The "few artists" you are letting advise you
must not know shit from shinola if they recommend
"thinning" tube colors using ONLY linseed oil.
Tony W.
>
> I have just recently started working in an art store/gallery and was
> wondering if there are any safe thinners available.
> Bob
If you use water-mixable oil paints, you don't need turpentine or
mineral spirits.
You mix water and linseed oil into the paint.
After painting, I suspend the brushes in a jar whose bottom has enough
sunflower oil in it to cover the bristles, but try to keep the bristles
from touching the bottom of the jar so that they don't fray and bend.
The next time I paint, I remove the brushes from the sunflower oil,
swirl the brushes in a jar containing Winsor and Newton Brush Cleaning
liquiid, rinse the brushes with water and wipe the brushes into a cloth.
Grumbacher, Holbein, Talens and Van Gogh make water-mixable oil paints.
Tony