watercolor paper curling problem
Ted Gies
I have a couple of questions about watercolor paper curling up at the
edges after doing a painting.
1. What's the best way to avoid this?
2. I have a painting that is complete and curled, what can i do to
flatten the paper so that I can mount or frame it?
thanks for replies,
Ted
Marilyn Welch
Get a couple of sheets of white blotting paper,
art supply stores stock it.
Place the painting face down on one sheet on a flat surface.
carefully dampen the reverse side of your painting
(I use a hake brush - wide Japanese brush)with water.
Place the second piece of blotting paper on top,
and place weights over the whole thing.
Art history books make good weights.
Leave overnight, and voila, flat as a tortilla!
Marilyn
FotoDave
> edges after doing a painting.
>
> 1. What's the best way to avoid this?
You can use dry or wet stretching method. It is described in watercolor
techniques books.
> 2. I have a painting that is complete and curled, what can i do to
> flatten the paper so that I can mount or frame it?
You can dampen the back of your print slightly, and then stretch as above.
Dave S
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=== See Soemarko's Direct Carbon (alternative) process at
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Stephen Morgana
Marilyn Welch <wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
>
> Get a couple of sheets of white blotting paper,
> art supply stores stock it.
> Place the painting face down on one sheet on a flat surface.
> carefully dampen the reverse side of your painting
> (I use a hake brush - wide Japanese brush)with water.
> Place the second piece of blotting paper on top,
> and place weights over the whole thing.
> Art history books make good weights.
> Leave overnight, and voila, flat as a tortilla!
>
> Marilyn
I use the same method, but I use a spray bottle to apply the water. I
prefer to flatten paintings after they are done rather than stretch the
paper before hand. Stretching paper is a tedious process and it does
not produce paintings that are any flatter than ones flattened after
painting ( at least for 140lb paper). As it turns out out, of the vast
number of paintings I paint, I probably only want to frame a fraction
of them, so why pre-stretch?
Another option is to use 300lb paper which is resists curling unless
you use a ton of water while painting.
Stephen
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Iva Reddnos
>I use the same method, but I use a spray bottle to apply the water. I
>prefer to flatten paintings after they are done rather than stretch the
>paper before hand. Stretching paper is a tedious process and it does
>not produce paintings that are any flatter than ones flattened after
>painting
Assuming we're talking about using a full sheet
of watercolor paper here -- 22 X 30 inches in size:
It's DURING the painting that the taut and flat
paper is a necessity -- for ME. What's tedious to
one is a necessity to another, I guess. My method
is to soak the paper for at least 15 minutes (fully
submerged) in the bathtub, let it dry so that there
is no 'sheen' of water to be seen. This is important.
You don't want the paper dripping wet, not too dry.
I then use old-fashioned gummed paper tape for attaching
the paper to a backing board. Tape is dampened
with a sponge or a spray of water on the gummed side
and used to tape all four sides with. I leave
a good inch of overlay on the paper and the rest of
the tape on the board that I use to attach the paper
to. I use a half-inch or thicker piece of good-grade plywood
as the backing board. Only tedious part of this whole
business, for me, is waiting for the paper to dry and
stretch before rewetting and using it to paint on.
Moonstone
it curls while you work and is very difficult to work on especially as it
effects the quality of the surface with paint tending to pool in areas. I
use exactly the same method to stretch paper attaching it to a sturdy
backing board with gummed tape only I use a spray bottle to thoroughly soak
the paper.
Tina
Iva Reddnos
>
>I agree the stretched paper is a necessity for me to paint on as unstretched
>it curls while you work and is very difficult to work on especially as it
>effects the quality of the surface with paint tending to pool in areas. I
>use exactly the same method to stretch paper attaching it to a sturdy
>backing board with gummed tape only I use a spray bottle to thoroughly soak
>the paper.
>Tina
Let's examine the reasons for wetting the paper in the
first place. What you are doing is EXPANDING the fibers
in the paper by soaking them in water. The more thoroughly
you soak the paper the more the fibers expand. When you
then tape it down to the board, it dries out, the fibers
contract, and the paper is 'stretched.' What you are doing
is expanding the paper like it will NEVER be expanded again
while you paint on it since you will never wet it as much
as you did when you soaked it before stretching it. Therefore
the paper stays taut and flat while you are creating your
painting. Sooooo, I don't mean to demean the use of the
spray bottle for pre-wetting but I think you'll find soaking
it under water will do a better job in the long run--but--
if the spray bottle works for you that's all that matters
in the end.
Marilyn
always gives you away.
Folks:
Watercolour paper is treated to receive the paint,
so do not soak the crap out it.
Deckled edges, and floating edges are beautiful
so do not destroy them with gummed brown paper.
All you need is a few map pins and a piece of fibre board
the size of your sheet. (You may paint the fibre board with white paint
to seal it before using.)
Place map pins around your paper a couple of inches apart.
Then you can carefully wet the paper before you begin
and allow it to dry. Or you may begin to paint if it is a small sheet.
Or buy heavy paper 300 lb. and be sure it will not buckle.
Whatever you do, be careful about following advice on this newsgroup,
even mine.
Marilyn
Iva Reddnos wrote:
> In article <82se08$tdr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, scm...@my-deja.com says...
>
> >I use the same method, but I use a spray bottle to apply the water. I
> >prefer to flatten paintings after they are done rather than stretch the
> >paper before hand. Stretching paper is a tedious process and it does
> >not produce paintings that are any flatter than ones flattened after
> >painting
>
> Assuming we're talking about using a full sheet
> of watercolor paper here -- 22 X 30 inches in size:
>
> It's DURING the painting that the taut and flat
> paper is a necessity -- for ME. What's tedious to
> one is a necessity to another, I guess. My method
Iva Reddnos
>
>You may change your stupid names, but your bad bad advice
>always gives you away.
And you are as full of it as the Xmas turkey!!!
Gummed tape destroys NOTHING and doesn't leave holes
in the paper either. Gummed tape is easily removed
by wetting the tape with a sponge which re-dissolves
the gum and lets the tape be removed with NO HARM
to the paper. You don't have a clue what you're talking
about. Until you do, find someone else to take out
your venomous slurs upon...
Marilyn
Paper murder:
How the hell can you have deckle edges or floating edges if they are
covered
in tape? You can't paint to the edges then. Map pins don't make
noticeable holes,
they are map pins.
As for you names,
Tell me that Iva Rednos is not a dumb name? Confusing then.
It could mean any of the following:
Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer
Bozo (or Gacy) the Clown
W.C. Fields
Which one is you?
Why not Millie Whytookay
and for the year 2000 here are some more dumb names:
January: - Jeanne Snowflake
February: - Val Entyne
March - Tulip Middlemarch
But why not take just one for the whole year, like
Sue Donumbor
A fridge magnet prize to anyone who can make up some good names
for Iva..
Marilyn
Iva Reddnos
Hey Dumbo!
>Paper murder:
>How the hell can you have deckle edges or floating edges if they are
>covered
>in tape? You can't paint to the edges then. Map pins don't make
>noticeable holes,
>they are map pins.
Who wants to paint to the edges of the paper?
The 'traditional' way of framing watercolor is to
mat it behind a mat board frame which will cover
the edges anyway. If you're going to 'float' a
watercolor in the more contemporary style, then
it looks like hell to paint to the deckle edge
anyway, IMHO. Once the tape is removed you can
continue painting to the edges if that is your
favorite way of doing things. I have nothing against
someone using whatever method suits their style.
What I resent is your slamming me personally for
giving OTHERS advice on a proven method of painting
on watercolor paper.
>As for you names,
>Tell me that Iva Rednos is not a dumb name? Confusing then.
If you are capable of seeing through the green shades
of envy, you might realize that 'tis the season to
be jolly' -- too bad you're such a Scrooge and such
an un-imaginative one at that!
Brother Alphabet
Iva Reddnos wrote:
> Who wants to paint to the edges of the paper?
Er, paint thin washed boredoms, do you? Usually the edge of the page is
not *enough* space.
> The 'traditional' way of framing watercolor is to
> mat it behind a mat board frame which will cover
> the edges anyway.
I majored in watercolor/watermedia and never ONCE did that. In 10 or
more years of painting/experimenting with watercolor, I have never even
thought about doing that.
> If you're going to 'float' a
> watercolor in the more contemporary style, then
> it looks like hell to paint to the deckle edge
> anyway, IMHO.
Maybe you just can't paint?
> I have nothing against
> someone using whatever method suits their style.
> What I resent is your slamming me personally for
> giving OTHERS advice on a proven method of painting
> on watercolor paper.
Er, you just called somebody "Dumbo" and asked "who wants to paint to
the edges..." Are you being a hypocrite here?
Sincerely,
Iva Bowfullofjelly
Iva Reddnos
>Sincerely,
>Iva Bowfullofjelly
It's always nice to have your erudite input.
Happy Holidays to you too.
Webb family
about something as wonderful as watercolour. The edges of
the paper showing in a framed piece can look fantastic,
and even though I struggle with
buckling paper myself, there are times when I like a sharp edge around
the painting so I use the tape. I staple to hold the paper taut but find
tape useless for anything but nice sharp edges. (I'm talking about
larger sizes and heavier paper - with the smaller sizes - 38 x 76cm -
tape seems to be enough) I've noticed also, that long periods of
soaking can remove the size off the surface of the paper - you can end
up with a piece of expensive blotting paper. I've heard of a method of
stretching large sizes ( 90 x 122cm and upwards), that is supposed to be
great if you don't want any buckling during the painting process.
Soak a piece of paper large enough to wrap over the edges of
your board - lay it flat on a clean surface, place your board
over the top of the paper, stretch the paper as you would stretch a canvas
and staple at the same time. Hoping to try it some time next month.
Does anyone agree with me that watercolour is the *most* versatile,
daring, bold, challenging, exciting , surprising medium around?
regards,
lurker Maggie
Brother Alphabet
Iva Reddnos wrote:
> It's always nice to have your erudite input.
You know, people don't use the word "erudite" often. I enjoy that word,
and appreciate its use.
The root meaning of 'erudite' is "To instruct the unlearned/crude/rude"
:)
While I am sure your above remark was sarcastic, I am going to take it
as a statement of fact.
> Happy Holidays to you too.
Fa la la la la. :)
Hutto
Erik A. Mattila
hope that you were hard at artwork during your long absence fron RAF.
Tra la la la )n(
Erik Mattila
Iva Reddnos
>
>While I am sure your above remark was sarcastic, I am going to take it
>as a statement of fact.
You're such a treasure Jason. I miss you when
you're off doing whatever it is you're doing
whenever you're not eruditing.
Tis the season to be folly...
Iva Reddnos
says...
>I've noticed also, that long periods of
>soaking can remove the size off the surface of the paper - you can end
>up with a piece of expensive blotting paper.
EXACTLY the point of long soakings! Watercolor
purists RELISH the blotting paper effect. That's
what makes watercolors watercolors, fer crying
out loud. You people who have no knowledge of
traditional watercolor methods would do well to
educate yourselves -- 'How To' books abound on
the subject. Or better yet take a class from
a watercolorist whose works you admire.
CAVEAT -- there is 'watercolor paper' that is
no better than kiddie-craft construction paper
and then there is watercolor paper that sells
for many dollars or pounds per sheet. I am AlWAYS
talking in terms of the latter.
Webb family
Webb family
traditionalists - always only one way to go about
it , ho hum.
Read in an interview of an artist I like that he
only paid attention to the following tips out
of all the advice he'd been given over the years:
1.Work hard, persist and stay under the art world's
noses and they will have to acknowledge you.
2.Don't listen to advice. If you are going to make
a mistake, make your own.
Lucky me, I may have found the perfect place to aggravate
sensitive nostrils and ignore bad advice right here
on this list.
But then again, perhaps I should buy one of those
"How to paint Tuscan villages in sunlight" books. Or
I wonder if Andrew Wyeth would give me
watercolour lessons. :-) Love his early work
(1938 - 1940) and I've read that he liked
painting Finnish people. I have Finnish heritage-
wonder if the Finns on this list have Wyeth
connections? Yes, life really is simple-
just like art.
Regards,
Maggie
>
>
Iva Reddnos
says...
>2.Don't listen to advice. If you are going to make
>a mistake, make your own.
That can be a very steep and pointless learning
curve when you discover that the top of the curve
is where you were when you were at the bottom of it.
Where you were when someone tried to give you good advice
that could have saved you the arduous and pointless
trip.
With your attitude, why does anyone have to bother
with schooling in their youth -- why not just
let nature take its course and everyone 'do their
own thing.'
Webb family
>
> With your attitude, why does anyone have to bother
> with schooling in their youth -- why not just
> let nature take its course and everyone 'do their
> own thing.'
I have a terrific attitude - openminded and beautiful - ;-) I appreciate
the sweat that goes into acquiring skill and Wyeth's watercolours
are just one example where I see superb draughtsmanship coupled
with non-stuffyshirted bravado. Mark Adams is another one who
springs to mind - his washes are just impossibly perfect. And recently
I found a little book called "i live in music" - a poem by someone
called Ntozake Shange illustrated by Romare Bearden - some of his
paintings are in watercolour, and I can see the dreaded *cauliflowers*
and runbacks and even thick, opaque, crusty watercolour with
liberal sprinklings of salt and what looks to me suspiciously like dripped
candlewax - yet he pulls it off - and the edges are showing in all their
deckled glory. Only a Romare Bearden could interpret lines like:
"..i got 15 trumpets where other women got hips
& a upright bass for both sides of my heart
i walk round in a piano like somebody else
be walkin on the earth
i live in music
live in it
wash in it.."
And I'm not looking for an easy way out of whatever challenge
I'm facing at any particular moment - if I have to go on an "arduous
and pointless trip", I'll make sure I look at the scenery on the way
and do a few detours too - always learn something on the way,
even if I have to eat some humble pie at the end of it. Humble pie's
not such a bad thing for an artist - I believe it is an excellent cure
for watercolour atrophy.
genuine regards from
Maggie
Iva Reddnos
says...
>Humble pie's
>not such a bad thing for an artist - I believe it is an excellent cure
>for watercolour atrophy.
>
>genuine regards from
>Maggie
Have you noticed that most artists have
a mouth just large enuff to put both of their
feet into but seldom large enough for even the
crumbs of humble pie?
Webb family
>
>
> Have you noticed that most artists have
> a mouth just large enuff to put both of their
> feet into but seldom large enough for even the
> crumbs of humble pie
Hey, you belong to my tribe after all - takes a lot of
character to be able to laugh at yourself. Would
make a refreshing change to the dialogue on this
list don't you think?
Thanks for the sparring - I really enjoyed it, I'll pick on you again
sometime in the new year!
Regards,
Maggie
>
Iva Reddnos
says...
>Thanks for the sparring - I really enjoyed it, I'll pick on you again
>sometime in the new year!
How about next millennium...soon enuff for me.
Degas5
>
>Have you noticed that most artists have
>a mouth just large enuff to put both of their
>feet into but seldom large enough for even the
Now I remember why I stopped visiting this group. Everyone is so egotistical
and arguementative. What's the point anyways. Some people prefer sized paper,
some do not, duh. This arguement opened upon Marilyn's usual critical retort.
That's where I left off months ago and she's still at it. Don't you all have
better things to talk about than persuing such a subject. Pick up ten
watercolor book, or talk to ten teachers and they all do what works for them.
There's no RIGHT way. Bah Humbug!!!!!
Bonnie aka Degas 5
Milly N Yehm
says...
>Now I remember why I stopped visiting this group. Everyone is so egotistical
>and arguementative. What's the point anyways.
If it were only a case of being argumentative it would
be a pleasant group to participate in. It's the personal
insults that drives this forum into the sub-civil drivel
and slander territory and makes it a bore -- driving
off those who might otherwise enliven it. Too bad.
And since I live in one of the few areas of the USA
enjoying a White Christmas this Xmas morning, I wish
one and all as nice a Xmas day as I'm enjoying...