Can someone help a oil painting beginner?
Karl Krokstrom
pencil, ink, conte, soft pastels, and watercolors. I am beginniing
with oils but have never had any instruction. Once I lay down and
outline or a basic subject it takes a very long time to dry. Is there
a trick to adding detail without it blending into its background or do
I just have to wait for it to dry before proceeding?
john cheall
Work on a few pictures at once - while one dries ready for the next coat you
can be working on another. Dry your work in a warm room.
Always use 2 pots of turps. 1 for cleaning brushes and 1, clean for thinning
your paint.
good luck.
SKETCHDUDE
over it with more fluid paint. The danger in doing that could be
inconsistant drying times between layers. If the top layer dries first, it
could crack when the bottom layer finally dries.
You can control drying time to a degree with turps or mineral spirits. Oil
paint will generally dry faster when you mix in one of these thinners. The
most common practice is to use more thinner on the first layers, adding
linseed oil as the work progresses.
Cobalt medium will speed drying time to a much greater extent, but there
again you run the danger of cracking if you use it on the final layers.
I got so tired of waiting for my very first first oil painting to dry, years
ago, that after waiting patiently for 3 hours, I cooked the damn thing at
350 degrees in the oven. I guess that was my first lesson with oil paints:
"patience"
The only thing is, when I removed my smoking oil painting (still not dry)
from the oven, the oil began to drip out in this cool amber color that just
happened to "sing" with the yellow and brown tones, I still haven't actually
learned that first lesson, but hey- anything could happen...
--
SKETCHDUDE
http://home.earthlink.net/~o0sketchdude0o/
"Karl Krokstrom" <mort...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b90950f...@enews.newsguy.com...
Jean Pule
>I just have to wait for it to dry before proceeding?
While you're waiting for it to dry,
visit your local library and check
out some "how to" books on oil
painting and then sit down and read
them. Alternatively, you can look
for oil painting lessons on the Web.
Here is a great site for beginners:
http://www.geocities.com/~jlhagan/
Click on the image on the right to
link to the lessons site.
Sharon Barcone
provide a much quicker drying time and follows the old fat over lean rule
with requires later applications of paint to contain more oil. Also look for
a book on "Alla prima" which will give instruction for painting wet into
wet. There is a lot to learn when painting in oils and a book designed for
beginners should be a great help in getting started.
sharon
"Karl Krokstrom" <mort...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b90950f...@enews.newsguy.com...
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Dik F. Liu
<sha...@usadatanet.net> writes:
>Mixing paint with turpentine to lay in an outline or block in color will
provide a much quicker drying time and follows the old fat over lean rule with
requires later applications of paint to contain more oil<
Sharon, your advice is sound, especially for painting thinly. But I worry if
it is suited for the beginners who can't distinguish the fast drying pigments
from the slow drying ones, and who might use your technique to paint in
impasto.
Turpentine doesn't speed the drying as it is only a thinner. So once it
evaporated, the paints are left to dry by themselves, as though they are
applied straight. Slow drying pigments such as ivory black and alizarin crimson
would still dry slowly if only turp is used to thin the paints, because there
is nothing in the turp to accelerate the drying. If a fast drying pigments is
then used over these slower drying ones, the upper fast drying layer will
crack.
For a bottom layer, a good medium that does accelerate the drying, would be 1/4
linseed oil, 1/4 damar, and 1/2 Gamblin's galkyd or another alkyd based medium.
Many artists are suspicious of alkyd as it is new to art supplies. However, it
has been used industrially for decades, and has thus far proven to be much
tougher than many traditional oil mediums.
Dik
Jean Pule
>
>Solid advice, as always.
>
>Another avenue that is open to beginners and seasoned oil painters alike:
>try acrylics.
Even MORE SOLID advice. But it's usually hard
to convince a beginner to switch to acrylics
once they've invested in oil paints and oil
painting brushes. As a teacher, I don't TELL
students which medium they MUST use, but I
try to convince them on the first night, when
the syllabus is handed out, that I prefer that
they begin with acrylics. Most regret not having
followed that suggestion once they see how
quickly those using acrylics progress in class.
Aside from the obvious - easy cleanup, water
thinning, etc - acrylics offer a versatility that
is not available with oils. And versatility invites
exploration!
Sharon Barcone
beginning drawing and basic blocking in. A black or umber thinned with turps
to lay in a beginning outline will dry faster than paint alone also blocking
in color thinned with turps will dry faster than oil paint alone.
Also I thought the same as Dan here, that acrylics might be a better place
for a beginner to start but acrylics have their own learning particularities
and difficulties so one desiring to learn oils may benefit from beginning
with somewhat smaller sized canvases, like maybe 12" x 16".
sharon
"Dan Fox" <danf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20010902204425.861$g...@newsreader.com...
> Solid advice, as always.
>
> Another avenue that is open to beginners and seasoned oil painters alike:
> try acrylics. Many more tradition-minded painters seem to have a bias
> against acrylics. I think this comes from two sources: first, acrylics
> werent' that good when they first appeared (what - 50 years ago?) and
> consequently got a bad rap. Second, many are under the impression that
> acrylics are only for 'hard edge' painting and bright, solid colors.
> Actually you can do anything with acrylics you can do with oil. They are
> also easier to handle because they dry quickly (you can inhibit this with
a
> retarder), you don't have to worry about cracking no matter how you layer
> them and, when dry, they are virtually impervious to aging. Add gel medium
> to get juicy oil texture and impasto, etc.
>
> Dik, what are your thoughts on acrylics?
> --
> Dan
>
> 'The self, violent and constant, is the subject of all art.' - Barnett
> Newman http://www.danfoxart.com
Dik F. Liu
explore this medium's potential.
Most of my friends use oils, but a few use acrylics, and many crossover
depending on what they need. Over the weekend I visited a friend who was
principally an oil painter, and has now switched to acrylics. I asked him how
he liked acrylics. He said that he hated it at first, then he grew used to it,
and now he can't imagine painting going back to his former oils. You know, I
hear that often, and I hear the same thing from former acrylic painters who now
paints in oils.
My sense is so long the painters know his craft, he can make acrylic paintings
look like oils, and vice versa. Some acrylic painters paint what look like oil
paintings (James Weeks). Some oil painters paint what look like acrylic
paintings (Ellsworth Kelly). Yet, each media excels in the techniques unique to
it. Acrylics excel in paintings that look, well, like acrylic paintings. Oils
excel in their own look. This is why most acrylic paintings look like acrylic
paintings; and oil paintings, oil paintings.
I briefly painted in acrylics when I painted abstract paintings. These days, in
my more realistic work I paint in oils. A primary difference between the two
media, is how they FEEL differently to the hand. Besides that, the difference
is what is more appropriate to each artist's aim. When I painted abstractly and
wanted to make impromptu decisions that radically alter the painting at every
turn, I used acrylics. Now that I paint alla prima in paintings that go on for
days, oils is more suited. In either case, I just use what is more suited to
the work.
Dik
--------------------
In article <20010902204425.861$g...@newsreader.com>, danf...@yahoo.com(Dan Fox)
writes:
Dik F. Liu
<sha...@usadatanet.net> writes:
>Also I thought the same as Dan here, that acrylics might be a better place for
a beginner to start but acrylics have their own learning particularities and
difficulties so one desiring to learn oils may benefit from beginning with
somewhat smaller sized canvases, like maybe 12" x 16".<
Sharon, you are correct that acrylics have their own learning particularities;
as do oils. For the beginner, what media he preferred depends much on what he
wants to do with the media. For paintings needing drastic impromptu decisions,
acrylics are more suited for the task, with oils it could be a mess. For
paintings requiring accurate tonal transistions and which the colosr must dry
absolutely true, oils are more apt.
Dik
Dik F. Liu
writes:
> I would submit that painting in oils effectively requires its own arsenal of
methods, since different problems must be overcome. It takes time and
experience to master any media.<
Oil painting can be very complicated. That's partly because there is a long
history of oil painting; so that each tradition of it developed its own mores.
It is also complicated because many oil painters try reinventing the wheel,
bypassing the simple techniques and pursuing those which are unnecessarily
complicated.
Oil painting can also be refreshingly simple. Just mix the paints with a basic
medium (1/3 oil, 1/3, turp, 1/3 damar), and paint on a primed canvas.
>I met a woman a few years ago who had studied with Oscar Kokaska (sp) - she
>said he made his students work in watercolor - again, for the immediacy.
Could that be the in the Boston Museum School? I know that Kokoschka taught
there in the late 40's and early 50's.
Dik
Jean Pule
>Also I thought the same as Dan here, that acrylics might be a better place
>for a beginner to start but acrylics have their own learning particularities
>and difficulties so one desiring to learn oils may benefit from beginning
>with somewhat smaller sized canvases, like maybe 12" x 16".
I don't know why you'd have to paint
any larger with acrylics than with
oils??? What difference does the
medium make on the size of the work?
As for learning difficulties, there
are far fewer "technical" ones to worry
about when learning with acrylics. Just
one example: one need not worry as much
about the support (substrate) that the
painting is begun on.
Jean Pule
says...
>My sense is so long the painters know his craft, he can make acrylic paintings
>look like oils, and vice versa.
I am one who "crossdresses" when it comes to
using the various painting mediums. I have long
marked the back of my paintings to tell me
later whether I used acrylic, oils, or both since
even I can't tell the difference and tend to
forget over time.
>A primary difference between the two
>media, is how they FEEL differently to the hand. Besides that, the difference
>is what is more appropriate to each artist's aim.
My decision as to which medium to use for a
particular subject is driven by something
much less tenable for me. It's some sort of
gut feeling for which I think I can best
manipulate to give the "impression" I want
to the subject matter. For example, I might
be doing a portrait in which I want to get
the likeness as close as I can. I will use
oils more often than not. Why? I don't really
know. Maybe it's the knowledge that acrylics
are harder to blend for achieving the subtle
changes in skin tones demanded in realistic
portraiture. On the other hand, I have done
my own grandkids using acrylics, ending up
with a more cartoonish or caricatured images
than I might have had I chosen oils. It's
such a subjective thing and hard to explain.
Jean Pule
says...
>Oil painting can also be refreshingly simple. Just mix the paints with a basic
>medium (1/3 oil, 1/3, turp, 1/3 damar), and paint on a primed canvas.
Even simpler, leave out the damar and go
half/half, refined linseed oil/turpentine.
I keep plastic squeeze bottles of both
handy - the damar mix being used for
glazing passages while the 2-part I use
for the more general passages. But I
learned to paint using only the simple
2-part mix and used it for a couple of
years before getting into the more
complicated formulas, adding driers, etc.
Xena
the same painting in both oil and acrylic (I have) will give one an objective
opinion and oil will always (IMO) be the superior medium for the translucency
of the paint surface which acrylic just can't match.
Sharon Barcone
"Jean Pule" <jp...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3b94e...@oracle.zianet.com...
> I don't know why you'd have to paint
> any larger with acrylics than with
> oils??? What difference does the
> medium make on the size of the work?
> As for learning difficulties, there
> are far fewer "technical" ones to worry
> about when learning with acrylics. Just
> one example: one need not worry as much
> about the support (substrate) that the
> painting is begun on.
>
smaller in oils helps the beginner focus on the technique and handleing of
the medium rather than on filling a large canvas. I work frequently with
either oils or acrylics and it seems to me that oils are a bit more of an
involved process. Also working smaller formats allows a beginner to start
out with smaller amounts of paint being laid out which is also a benefit.
Oil vs. acrylic is a matter of personal choice. As I said I work in both at
one time or the other and though I like the immediacy of acrylic I prefer
the feel of working with pigments suspended in oil, I prefer the way I can
fiddle with it on my canvas and the way it moves under my brush.
There may be lots of reasons for a beginner to choose oils and lots of
different opinions offered give the beginner an idea of the many
possibilities. But when it comes right down to it experience, both good and
bad experiences, will make the difference.
sharon
Bob & Dale Ford
Jean Pule wrote:
Really? Please explain how they are more versatile?
Dale
> And versatility invites
> exploration!
Jean Pule
>
>I work in both and agree that for students, acrylics work best. However, doing
>the same painting in both oil and acrylic (I have) will give one an objective
>opinion and oil will always (IMO) be the superior medium for the translucency
>of the paint surface which acrylic just can't match.
I achieve the same degree of translucency
with acrylics that I do with oils. The
secret overlooked by so many people who
paint with acrylics is that you must use
acrylic medium rather than plain water,
in much the same manner that you use a
medium when painting in oils. I have watched
so many students thin their acrylics down
with water thinking they're achieving a
glaze or translucency when all they're doing
is over-diluting the paint. Adding acrylic
medium INSTEAD of thinning with water is
the secret.
Jean Pule
>Really? Please explain how they are more versatile?
>Dale
I would but you've already exhausted your
15 infamous minutes of my time with your
previous whinnying replies to my posts.
Go get yourself a good book on acrylics,
and then sit down and read it - slowly
in your case...
Dik F. Liu
Just learning to SEE is hard enough. Both oils and acrylics are "involved" so
long that you are engaged in learning and wanting to learn the craft. Oils dry
slowly but dry true. Acrylics dry quickly but the color changes slightly as it
dries. So you sacrifice color accuracy for convenience. Pick your poison. Oil
painting has a longer history. So if you want to master the many techniques
developed throughout its history, it will take time.
I wish it doesn't.
Dik
Jean Pule
>
>You can also use acrylic medium (gloss or matte) to make thick, juicy paint
>for impasto. There are retarders to make acrylics dry slower, but I've
>never used one. And don't forget modeling paste (basically gel with sand)
>for special effects.
Special effects are just one of the many advantages
acrylics offer over use of oils. It's the unigue
"glue" characteristic and the fact that acrylic
media is crystal-clear when dry. One's imagination
is the only limitation to variety of uses for
acrylics.
As for retarders, I mix my "spray" water fifty
fifty with ethylene glycol (otherwise known
as anti-freeze for autos). For those who fear
this chemical you can pay more for the propylene
glycol at a druggist - it's the common ingredient
in cosmetics that get applied directly to one's
skin. By varying the amount of glycol added to
your paint, you can achieve much slower drying
times. I can work all day with the paint laid
out on my palette in the morning if I mix it
when I first put it out with the glycol spray.
But when applied to the canvas, it still dries
about as quickly as does non-glycol paint.
Chris
A good introduction on how to do this is in Thomas Beuchner's "How I
Paint : Secrets of a Sunday Painter", especially if you are interested in
representational art. It's widely available, or you can order it from
Amazon.
The big 'secret' of course is relatively simple - a traditional oil
painting is a relatively ordered process, being built in layers, working
from broad masses to detail, from far to near fields, etc.It sounds like
you may be putting your paint in too thick to start - and unless you are
actually looking for impasto effects (like van Gogh, who preferred
working with thick paint, and had a brother who would buy it for him),
it's probably better to work in layers that are physically thin (not
necessarily thin with turps or other solvent). A thin application can
usually be worked again pretty quickly, depending on the drying rate of
the colour. But most of all practice gives you a knowledge of what
happens when you paint wet into wet, or wet into dry, or whatever; as
well as a feel for the brush, so the more you do it the easier it becomes
to know when and how to put in fine work.
Regards,
Chris
Roberto
There's an art book out by a guy
you can't believe. Wrote for the
The Artist's Magazine. That's where
I found him. Talks about acrylic and
oils and everthing else on art and
marketing. He's funny, and tells it like
it is. Don't buy it at amazon.com. Cost
me 17 bucks and shipping. Last I looked
he was giving it away free as an e-book.
Go to www.innisart.com
-Roberto
Jean Pule
says...
>
>Hey there,
>
>There's an art book out by a guy
>you can't believe.
>Go to http://www.innisart.com
>
>-Roberto
Thank you for this reference which I've passed
on to all my artist friends as well as those
who teach art whom I know. What a delightful
read!
For those who cringe at the thought of downloading
an entire book, this one took me less than five
minutes to put on my hard drive for reference.
That assumes of course that you already have
Adobe Acrobat Reader installed on your computer.
If not, the download for it is free too.
http://www.innisart.com/download.html
Bob & Dale Ford
realize the versatility of the medium. I have acrylics, I know how to use them. Do
you ? Or do you just read a lot and can't paint?
Dale
P.S. At least I am a real person and not a sock puppet.
Bob & Dale Ford
generalized statements attempting to make your self look all knowing. If you make a
stupid generalization expect some one to ask for an explanation. There is nothing the
matter with acrylics but they are not superior to oils just different. Any effect
realized with acrylic paint can be duplicated with oil. You just need to know what you
are doing. So acrylics are not more versatile. Easier to use as in clean up and drying
yes. But great art isn't about easy is it.
Andrew D
Pule) wrote:
+In article <698c1c6b.01090...@posting.google.com>, wsl...@aol.com
+says...
+>
+>Hey there,
+>
+>There's an art book out by a guy
+>you can't believe.
+
+>Go to http://www.innisart.com
+>
+>-Roberto
+
+Thank you for this reference which I've passed
+on to all my artist friends as well as those
+who teach art whom I know. What a delightful
+read!
+For those who cringe at the thought of downloading
+an entire book, this one took me less than five
+minutes to put on my hard drive for reference.
+That assumes of course that you already have
+Adobe Acrobat Reader installed on your computer.
+If not, the download for it is free too.
+
+http://www.innisart.com/download.html
Oh my God!
I'm only up to page 4 proper (page 28 in the PDF) and already this guy's
got me figured!
The wife, the kids, the mortgage, the real job with the boss who really
needs me. The magazines, the ageing car and the nervous trepidation that
comes along everytime I go near a fresh canvas - which is only on weekends
or days off and only when all the important chores are finished (and they
never are)...........And I thought I was unique!
I'm almost scared to read on.
Thanks for the link Roberto.
Andy.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"