Most profitable use of art study time?
oldf...@my-deja.com
Does anyone have any opinions as to the most profitable use of one's
study time for art. That is, for the serious amateur/hobbyist art
students of us? Is it better to spend more time working through art
instruction books, or drawing/painting practice from real life. What
about concentrating on the use of one or a few media? Or bouncing
around using different media as the mood strikes? What about drawing vs
painting, should drawing strictly come first?
I would like to take some art courses at the local college here but
circumstances never seem to allow it so I have to be content with what
I can pick from books. What do you think?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mr.bloc...@swipnet.se
Do only what the circumstances allow. Do trust 100% in yourself doing
it YOUR way (that means your own special way of doing and thinking with
your skills and "progress" at your prefered tempo and method and when
ever you can or feel like it) Produce only what you love or like to
produce (be true to your own personal style in a relaxed and enjoyable
way) "Educate" yourself and have fun while you're at it.
Do eat cheap but healthy food (rice, pasta, fish, etc ...) . Do listen
to music you like. Don't drink, don't do drugs, don't smoke. Don't buy
unneccesary things. Go to the library for books and music if you want
and can. Sleep and rest when you want and/or need to. Listen to the
radio BBC world service and other goodies on short wave if you have such
radio (earphones are nice less noice at night time). Try to be as
independant as you can. The less you spend the more independant you
come. To bike around saves you money and is enjoyable if you are able.
Don't take art seriously. Art and religion are the two biggest lies in
the history of mankind. Made up to make life a tad more interesting.
I wish you luck and great success,
Mr.Block (Kafka The Trial)
Nita Leland
own pleasure? Do you want to sell your paintings? Do you want to make a
living at art? Are you interested in competitions? Each goal may have a
different approach. The one thing they have in common is "practice." The
more you do it, the better you get at it. Probably the most satisfying
experience of art comes when you build yourself a solid foundation of art
principles, including drawing and design, and paint what you know and love.
No matter what your goals, you can do it. It just takes time, patience and
practice.
You can paint without learning to draw, but your paintings will be more
convincing if you can draw. You can use different media if you like, but you
will accomplish more if you concentrate on one medium at a time until you
have mastered it. You can use books or paint from life, but be sure you pick
subjects you have personal experience with. You can set yourself a course of
study or just play. In other words, do what works for you, but whatever you
decide, practice is the main thing. Just do it.
--
Nita
ni...@nitaleland.com
Exploring Color Web Site www.nitaleland.com
"What's New!" www.nitaleland.com/new.htm
<oldf...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8mg8v5$vg3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Jaxart
>
>Hello,
>
> Does anyone have any opinions as to the most profitable use of one's
>study time for art.
You're going to get as many opinions as there are people
lurking out there. Just do what YOU like and want to do
and forget about what others think you should do. If you
pick up any of the hundreds of "how to" books on art they
all walk you through their own lesson plans. As for the
question of whether or not one medium should precede another,
you'll get an equally frustrating array of answers. People
are painting away who never learned to draw and vice versa.
In today's art scenario the credo is "Just Do It!"
--
============================================================
For a unique art experience visit:
http://www.zianet.com/jaxart/index.html
============================================================
Scarlett
:
: Does anyone have any opinions as to the most profitable use
of one's
art
: students of us? Is it better to spend more time working through
art
: instruction books,
Sorry, but I've never seen a good one. If I were a beginner I
would probably tape some PBS painting shows just to get the feel
of the material and get comfortable about painting.
or drawing/painting practice from real life. What
: about concentrating on the use of one or a few media?
My advice is to try a few. Why limit yourself at the start?
Or bouncing
: around using different media as the mood strikes? What about
drawing vs
: painting, should drawing strictly come first?
I strongly recommend drawing. You can do both.
: I would like to take some art courses at the local college
here but
: circumstances never seem to allow it so I have to be content
with what
: I can pick from books. What do you think?
Trial and error, live and learn.
Only advice I have is to not lock yourself into a certain style
for a long time. Experiment. Read. Read. Read. See what has been
done and who *clicks* with you and your interests. Keep learning.
Keep doing it, even if it is just doodling in a notepad. Get some
art friends. Go to art openings, galleries, museums. Subscribe to
an art magazine.
--
Scarlett
http://ScarlettDecker.homestead.com
"Do you know what he needs? Two or three shock treatments,"
Mary George said. "Get that artist business right out of his
head once
and for all." (from "An Enduring Chill" by Flannery O'Connor)
Scarlett
<mr.bloc...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:398BE8...@swipnet.se...
: oldf...@my-deja.com wrote:
:
: Do only what the circumstances allow. Do trust 100% in
yourself doing
: it YOUR way (that means your own special way of doing and
thinking with
: your skills and "progress" at your prefered tempo and method
and when
: ever you can or feel like it) Produce only what you love or
like to
: produce (be true to your own personal style in a relaxed and
enjoyable
: way) "Educate" yourself and have fun while you're at it.
:
Good points above, BUT:
: Do eat cheap but healthy food (rice, pasta, fish, etc ...) .
Do listen
: to music you like. Don't drink, don't do drugs, don't smoke.
Don't buy
: unneccesary things. Go to the library for books and music if
you want
: and can. Sleep and rest when you want and/or need to. Listen
to the
: radio BBC world service and other goodies on short wave if you
have such
: radio (earphones are nice less noice at night time). Try to be
as
: independant as you can. The less you spend the more
independant you
: come. To bike around saves you money and is enjoyable if you
are able.
: Don't take art seriously. Art and religion are the two biggest
lies in
: the history of mankind. Made up to make life a tad more
interesting.
I feel like I'm watcching one of those self-help gurus on TV.
What a crock! Some of the best artists I know are SEVERE
alcoholics! BUt their art is GREAT! Do you think lots of leafy
green vegetables are going to excite the senses? Maybe the
bowels... David Hockney is deaf and Vincent van Gogh heard
noises, so your auditory stimulation is nonsensical as well.
But congratulations for making me smile :-D
--
Scarlett
http://ScarlettDecker.homestead.com
"Do you know what he needs? Two or three shock treatments,"
Mary George said. "Get that artist business right out of his
head once
and for all." (from "An Enduring Chill" by Flannery O'Connor)
:
: Mr.Block (Kafka The Trial)
sharon
with you everywhere and where time permits sketch what interests
you. Look for the patterns of dark and light and the lines that
give meaning to what you see. If you forget your pencil,
orcastrate the scene in your head. Observation of life is
important for an artist, it can help provide depth and meaning
for your work regardless how the style you paint in. You can
learn a great deal from trial and error and practice but you
progress may be speeded up if you add books, mags, videos, and
observation to your methods.
There is a saying that goes something along the lines of
"there are those who write about life, there are those who read
about life, and there are those who live life. I believe the
better painters are those who live life to the fullest.
See and feel as much of life as you can and always remember your
dreams.
sharon
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
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mdeli
>In article <8mg8v5$vg3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, oldf...@my-deja.com says...
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>> Does anyone have any opinions as to the most profitable use of one's
>>study time for art.
>
>You're going to get as many opinions as there are people
>lurking out there. Just do what YOU like and want to do
>and forget about what others think you should do. If you
>pick up any of the hundreds of "how to" books on art they
>all walk you through their own lesson plans. As for the
>question of whether or not one medium should precede another,
>you'll get an equally frustrating array of answers. People
>are painting away who never learned to draw and vice versa.
>
>In today's art scenario the credo is "Just Do It!"
>
Try the above with music it will be far worse than your art. The just
do it school of art always looks like they just did it and you would
just prefer to look at something someone else did. Ignorance seems to
be in fashion. It is what most Modern Academic Art expresses
perfectly.
Mani DeLi
Modern Academic Art is incompetence in search of an idea.
...no skill no art
Tired of Modern Art? Check out my web page!
http://www.interlog.com/~hugod/
Jaxart
intheflo...@aol.com.invalid says...
>There is a saying that goes something along the lines of
>"there are those who write about life, there are those who read
>about life, and there are those who live life. I believe the
>better painters are those who live life to the fullest.
>
>See and feel as much of life as you can and always remember your
>dreams.
>
>sharon
I'll second those sentiments. I think if there is one
piece of advice that I feel comfortable giving someone
who is just discovering art, it would be to "imitate life"
in the beginning when first learning to draw or paint.
Copying from life MAKES you see nature. And the one benefit
of becoming an artist that I doubt anyone* will disagree with
is that you begin really seeing things around you for the
first time when you become interested in recreating nature
in an art medium, regardless of the medium you choose.
(*of course someone will just to be contentious)
PsycoTelBP
>and forget about what others think you should do.
Telling somebody not to listen to others opinions... If the person follows your
advice, then they wouldn't be allowed to follow your advice. Ha!
-Brian
oldf...@my-deja.com
Some interesting answers here. Some leaning more to what the concept
of art is, and some toward the development of the technical skills,
which is more in the way of what I'm thinking of. Or, said another way,
having something to say and just how are you going to say it. One needs
the technical skills to be able to express what one has experienced,
but then of course, if you don't have anything to express, then all you
have are the technical skills.
At times it gets rather boring going through the art books and
drawing their examples. Actually, I believe I have just had a great
boost from having started drawing standing at an easel, compared to
sitting at a table with sketchbook etc. And using larger paper sizes as
well. It seems that I am making the most progress drawing from real
life rather than from pictures in books. However, I don't discount the
value of the books in the least. I belive there is a great deal of
technical knowledge one really needs if one is going to go far.
I enjoy bouncing around with different media somewhat and have
developed a sense of things I like and don't like. I do want to paint
watercolor and oils but I don't do much very seriously with them yet as
I believe the study of color mixing etc will be quite a task. I'm doing
more with drawing right now. I'm just trying to figure out the best way
to maximize the results of the time I have for art.
As it is all for my own personal interest and entertainment I have
no pressures other than the desire to achieve excellence. If I am one
day good enough to sell something so be it, if not so be it. The doing
is reward enough right now, but I must achieve my own standard of
excellence, or perfection.
mr.bloc...@swipnet.se
Farmer!.....you're the man!
Lauri Levanto
>
> Hello All,
>
> Some interesting answers here. Some leaning more to what the concept
> of art is, and some toward the development of the technical skills,
> which is more in the way of what I'm thinking of.
One of the basiacal skills is drawing. Draw something every day.
Sometimes with real subject, sometimes from imagination.
They say modern art has little to do with drawing,
but is has everything to do what you cal learn by drawing.
Make two drawings of the sume subject (person,landscape,stilleben
whatever)
from just slightly different angle.
Compare these drawings A and B. Write down all differencies you consider
important. Save the note sheet. After a couple of months
make the comparision again. Strike over and add in new observations.
>Or, said another way,
> having something to say and just how are you going to say it. One needs
> the technical skills to be able to express what one has experienced,
> but then of course, if you don't have anything to express, then all you
> have are the technical skills.
There is no way to tell what you have to express:-)
Even that will grow with the envolvement of art.
If you have access even to mediocre class evening courses,
use it. The best thing is to see how others do the same chore.
And the discussions in the coffee breaks. Good books
are some substitute. I mean monographs of artists you
kind of like or understand. ANd some of those you don't!
> At times it gets rather boring going through the art books and
> drawing their examples. Actually, I believe I have just had a great
> boost from having started drawing standing at an easel, compared to
> sitting at a table with sketchbook etc. And using larger paper sizes as
> well. It seems that I am making the most progress drawing from real
> life rather than from pictures in books. However, I don't discount the
> value of the books in the least. I belive there is a great deal of
> technical knowledge one really needs if one is going to go far.
I haven't learned to take advantige of the "how to..."books.
> I enjoy bouncing around with different media somewhat and have
> developed a sense of things I like and don't like.
Many times when I feel blocked, it helps to shift to a different media.
From pencil to ink to charcoal.
> I do want to paint
> watercolor and oils but I don't do much very seriously with them yet as
> I believe the study of color mixing etc will be quite a task.
Colors are difficult to me, too.
I found it helpful to begin with pastels.
You get them im boxes of tens of hues. It is easier to pick
the almost right, and mix in a little bit of this and that.
For oils I think some GOOD howto book is useful.
Most of them are crap. Try to find the most technical one.
>I'm doing
> more with drawing right now. I'm just trying to figure out the best way
> to maximize the results of the time I have for art.
> As it is all for my own personal interest and entertainment I have
> no pressures other than the desire to achieve excellence. If I am one
> day good enough to sell something so be it, if not so be it. The doing
> is reward enough right now, but I must achieve my own standard of
> excellence, or perfection.
That's the attitude of a *true*amateur (=lover of art).
If you have no others to discuss with, stay tuned in this NG.
-lauri
journeyman of sculpture.
rfxN
thread...
On 10 Aug 2000, lauri....@nokia.com (Lauri Levanto) wrote:
>If you have access even to mediocre class evening courses,
>use it. The best thing is to see how others do the same chore.
Chore being the operative term - For the first time attending art
classes I found myself becoming more and more alienated with drawing.
Mainly, what I learned was that for the last decade I've done everything
the wrong way: Working too small, using a hard pencil (preferably a
mechanical pencil), concentrating on detail, holding the drawing
instrument the wrong way and, doing it the "right" way, ending up with
something that resembles a 5-year old's doodling.
Not to offend and 5-year olds, I don't believe this was my original
goal. Instead of inspiration, I found myself becoming rather depressed and
disappointed.
What's the point of all this whining and moaning? Be careful with art
classes. If you've developed a style of your own, and done things your own
way for some time, stick to it. Croquis might be fun, but don't take it too
seriously if its not part of your own repertoire.
--
/rfxN
Robert Ferguson
> Mainly, what I learned was that for the last decade I've done everything
> the wrong way: Working too small, using a hard pencil (preferably a
> mechanical pencil), concentrating on detail, holding the drawing
> instrument the wrong way and, doing it the "right" way, ending up with
> something that resembles a 5-year old's doodling.
Personally I made a jump in progress when I started sketching while standing
at an easel getting the whole arm, elbow, shoulder into it, with freedom of
movement it makes a big difference. Starting on small paper holding the
pen/pencil whatever like in writing does'nt give you the same freedom of
movement, not that you can't draw that way but learning the other is
important. I've read it's better to start large and then go to small.
rfxN
>Personally I made a jump in progress when I started sketching while
>standing at an easel getting the whole arm, elbow, shoulder into it,
>with freedom of movement it makes a big difference. Starting on small
>paper holding the pen/pencil whatever like in writing does'nt give you
>the same freedom of movement, not that you can't draw that way but
>learning the other is important. I've read it's better to start large
>and then go to small.
Yes, I've had the same thing told me over and over again, and frankly
I begin to feel quite claustrophobic whenever I'm working on A4-size or
smaller paper... (excluding the letter-size Mead sketchbook I carry around
with me all the time). And the fact that I can't draw a straight line (or,
in other words, I can't take advantage of the freedom of movement, au
contraire, the freedom of movement takes advantage of me...) at the easel
seems to be my personal hang-up anyway.
Anyway, the point of my previous ranting stands: Art classes are fine,
as long as they fall in your field. Concentrate on what you do best, and
forget about the rest... Unless you're a stubborn masochist like your
humble narrator.
Even better, buy a camera.
--
/rfxN
lauri levanto
"rfxN" <rf...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:8FBA7F42Erf...@195.197.54.114...
> After a while of lurking I have something to add to this older
> thread...
>
> On 10 Aug 2000, lauri....@nokia.com (Lauri Levanto) wrote:
>
> >If you have access even to mediocre class evening courses,
> >use it. The best thing is to see how others do the same chore.
>
> What's the point of all this whining and moaning? Be careful with art
> classes. If you've developed a style of your own, and done things your own
I do agree,
the only good reason to go to art classes
is willingness to learn something.
-lauri
s.robinson7
stuff you presently think is rubbish. Large drawings should incorporate the
whole arm and shoulder, smaller drawings should not, cannot. You should be
able to move freely between the two disciplines. Once you have learnt how to
draw properly, then ,and only then should you start to develop your own
style. In this way you are in control of your style, rather than your style
being in charge of you. Too many art students (and I know cos I work at a
University School of Art in UK) want to make art like Matisse, or Pollock
without understanding that these artists first learned how to draw properly.
Have you ever seen a Pollock nude from his student days? Wonderful !!
Go to classes, learn from tutors, learn from each other.
Steve
"lauri levanto" <lauri....@nokia.com> wrote in message
news:5o_z5.11545$oL4.2...@news2.nokia.com...