Beginner question: pastels and oil pastels
J. David Kent
noticed that there were pastels, and then specifically oil pastels. What is
the difference, and what would be best for a beginner to start with?
Thanks,
Dave
Pagani
Artist's soft pastels are pure pigment with very little binder. They're soft
and sometimes crumbly. They are the choice of the majority of pastel
artists.
Oil pastels represent a newer medium. These use a vegetable oil as a binder,
making them waxier feeling...closer to a crayon. There are advantages and
disadvantages to both. I usually prefer soft pastels such as Sennelier or
Unison, but that's purely a personal preference.
Soft pastels are dusty and need to be displayed under glass or sprayed with
fixative. Oil pastels don't need fixative, but they also never become
completely solid, either. Sheesh.
Tell you what, go to your local bookstore and pick up a copy of "Pastel
Journal" - they have articles about all pastel types. Since pastel sets are
quite expensive, you should do some reading first. Then get maybe a sample
set of each and try them out - see what works best for you.
Pagani
-------------
www.roadsideartist.com
"J. David Kent" <j...@ccsisp.com> wrote in message
news:VeScnaV5OuY...@prvlb.net...
Nerd Gerl
<ushcu52...@corp.supernews.com>...
> The difference is a LOT ...or not as much, depending on who you ask.
> Artist's soft pastels are pure pigment with very little binder. They're soft
> and sometimes crumbly. They are the choice of the majority of pastel
> artists.
Hey! I'm not pickin' on you, but that "choice" comment seems biased.
Can you point me to a reference that documents this with stats? LOL
> Oil pastels represent a newer medium. These use a vegetable oil as a binder,
> making them waxier feeling...closer to a crayon. There are advantages and
> disadvantages to both. I usually prefer soft pastels such as Sennelier or
> Unison, but that's purely a personal preference.
>
> Soft pastels are dusty and need to be displayed under glass or sprayed with
> fixative. Oil pastels don't need fixative, but they also never become
> completely solid, either. Sheesh.
If you spray soft pastels (which I call CHALK pastel) with fixative,
you have to do it in layers or else you'll spray the damn picture
away. There are some light values you simply can NOT spray EVER if you
want the "light" to show. Fixative CAN and WILL turn light colors
dark, or even... transparent.
And what do you mean oil pastels don't need fixative?? Of course they
do! Ever bump into one?? You can spray oil pastel with fixative and
again, you can do it in layers, but this protective layering is NOT
necessary... it's more for the picture's protection than anything
else.
I suggest starting out with oil pastel. It's a messy s.o.b., but, like
I said, if you spray your artwork every once in a while, you'll have a
crisp clean new surface to make color/line adjustments. Think in
layers. Paint in layers. Fix in layers. Build your images in layers.
Fix it again. Open the windows. And take plenty of excedrine.
=============
Naked Angel Art
http://www.rcip.com/nerdgerl
chris
out this question is to look at work by experienced artists in the different
media, and see which lies more in line with what you want to do. But
basically regular pastels behave more like chalk, oil pastels more like
crayons....
Personally, I like them both - regular pastels tend to be more useful for
delicate work, oil pastels for more intense - but trying to compare them is
like comparing apples and oranges.
Cheers;
Chris
"J. David Kent" <j...@ccsisp.com> wrote in message
news:VeScnaV5OuY...@prvlb.net...
Andrew D
<j...@ccsisp.com> wrote:
+I just received my Dick Blick catalog. After drooling on several pages, I
+noticed that there were pastels, and then specifically oil pastels. What is
+the difference, and what would be best for a beginner to start with?
In very simple termst: Pastel is like chalk while oil pastel is like wax
crayon. Pastel can be wetted and spread almost like watercolour wash while
oil pastel cannot. However, oil pastel can be spread with turps (or
similar) to give an oil wash.
Being chalky, traditional pastel is dusty and easily spread/blended on the
paper. Oil pastel is sticky (not dusty). The finished effect is quite
different.
Andy D.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"
Nerd Gerl
<right-07110...@i172-078.nv.iinet.net.au>...
> In article <VeScnaV5OuY...@prvlb.net>, "J. David Kent"
> <j...@ccsisp.com> wrote:
>
> +I just received my Dick Blick catalog. After drooling on several pages, I
> +noticed that there were pastels, and then specifically oil pastels. What is
> +the difference, and what would be best for a beginner to start with?
>
> In very simple termst: Pastel is like chalk while oil pastel is like wax
> crayon.
I don't know why you people keep saying oil pastel is like wax crayon.
Oil pastel is NOTHING like crayons. Oil pastel is like oil PAINT. Do
you know what a CRAYON is? http://www.crayola.com
> Pastel can be wetted and spread almost like watercolour wash while
> oil pastel cannot.
This is terrible advice. Toilet paper can be "wetted" and spread
almost like watercolor wash. That doesn't mean you should do it! CHALK
pastel was never meant to be WET. You wet chalk pastel on a
drawing/painting as a wash and you'll have a trail of chalk CRUMBS to
show off.
However, oil pastel can be spread with turps (or
> similar) to give an oil wash.
That won't work either unless you fix what has been previously laid
down. Use a finger or tiny brush to blend color instead. "Turps" will
REMOVE oil pastel that has not been fixed.
Dude!
=============
Naked Angel Art
http://www.rcip.com/nerdgerl
Bernt Oker
says...
>I don't know why you people keep saying oil pastel is like wax crayon.
>Oil pastel is NOTHING like crayons. Oil pastel is like oil PAINT. Do
>you know what a CRAYON is? http://www.crayola.com
I agree to a point. But of course oil pastel
is closer to crayon and regular pastel is
closer to chalk, so those comparisons are valid
to the uninitiated.
On the other hand, I don't think anyone has
yet pointed out that oil pastels CAN be
handled much like oil paints in that you can
use a thinner (medium) to melt and blend the
oil pastel and work with it in a similar fashion
to oil paint.
There is also the OIL STICK - another fine art
medium preferred by many artists who have mastered
this clumsy medium. Oil sticks can also be melted
with medium and blended.
Andrew D
nerd...@rcip.com (Nerd Gerl) wrote:
+Andrew D <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote in article
+<right-07110...@i172-078.nv.iinet.net.au>...
+> In article <VeScnaV5OuY...@prvlb.net>, "J. David Kent"
+> <j...@ccsisp.com> wrote:
+>
+> +I just received my Dick Blick catalog. After drooling on several pages, I
+> +noticed that there were pastels, and then specifically oil pastels. What is
+> +the difference, and what would be best for a beginner to start with?
+>
+> In very simple terms: Pastel is like chalk while oil pastel is like wax
+> crayon.
+I don't know why you people keep saying oil pastel is like wax crayon.
+Oil pastel is NOTHING like crayons. Oil pastel is like oil PAINT. Do
+you know what a CRAYON is? http://www.crayola.com
I said "in very simple terms". We're talking about someone who apparently
has no idea what these things are and is trying to determine the
difference from a catalogue listing. They are more like wax crayons than
they are like chalk. It's a simple indication of the difference, not an
explicit description of the physical components.
+> Pastel can be wetted and spread almost like watercolour wash while
+> oil pastel cannot.
+This is terrible advice.
It wasn't advice, it was information.
+ Toilet paper can be "wetted" and spread
+almost like watercolor wash. That doesn't mean you should do it!
Dan, keith and Nick would probably disagree. They would ask "why not?"
+CHALK
+pastel was never meant to be WET. You wet chalk pastel on a
+drawing/painting as a wash and you'll have a trail of chalk CRUMBS to
+show off.
The point was that regular pastel will take water while oil pastel will
repel it. I don't do it but I've seen it done effectively - on very good
wettable paper, not regular pastel paper. For someone who's supposedly
trying to free herself of the terrible constraints of traditional rules,
you certainly seem unwilling to accept new ideas.
+However, oil pastel can be spread with turps (or
+> similar) to give an oil wash.
+That won't work either unless you fix what has been previously laid
+down.
It might well be the first layer - where an oil wash is usually most
likely to occur.
+ Use a finger or tiny brush to blend color instead. "Turps" will
+REMOVE oil pastel that has not been fixed.
Andrew D
wrote:
+In article <c45b61ca.02110...@posting.google.com>,
nerd...@rcip.com
+says...
+
+>I don't know why you people keep saying oil pastel is like wax crayon.
+>Oil pastel is NOTHING like crayons. Oil pastel is like oil PAINT. Do
+>you know what a CRAYON is? http://www.crayola.com
+
+I agree to a point. But of course oil pastel
+is closer to crayon and regular pastel is
+closer to chalk, so those comparisons are valid
+to the uninitiated.
+
+On the other hand, I don't think anyone has
+yet pointed out that oil pastels CAN be
+handled much like oil paints in that you can
+use a thinner (medium) to melt and blend the
+oil pastel and work with it in a similar fashion
+to oil paint.
+
+There is also the OIL STICK - another fine art
+medium preferred by many artists who have mastered
+this clumsy medium. Oil sticks can also be melted
+with medium and blended.
I assume these, like oil pastels, never actually dry and must be framed
under glass?
Nerd Gerl
> +I don't know why you people keep saying oil pastel is like wax crayon.
> +Oil pastel is NOTHING like crayons. Oil pastel is like oil PAINT. Do
> +you know what a CRAYON is? http://www.crayola.com
>
> I said "in very simple terms". We're talking about someone who apparently
> has no idea what these things are and is trying to determine the
> difference from a catalogue listing. They are more like wax crayons than
> they are like chalk. It's a simple indication of the difference, not an
> explicit description of the physical components.
Can you smear a crayon with your finger?!?! Perhaps you folks mean
"CRAY-PAH" instead of "crayon". These are used in kindergarten too.
Yet I doubt the original poster is a kindergartener, and/or
appreciated this toddler comparison.
> +> Pastel can be wetted and spread almost like watercolour wash while
> +> oil pastel cannot.
>
> +This is terrible advice.
>
> It wasn't advice, it was information.
Ok. So it's terrible information. There is no way in hell to get a
professional looking "watercolour wash" using chalk pastel. I mean,
really, if you're going to go through all the trouble of making a
convincing "watercolor wash" from chalk pastels... duh...
> The point was that regular pastel will take water while oil pastel will
> repel it. I don't do it but I've seen it done effectively - on very good
> wettable paper, not regular pastel paper. For someone who's supposedly
> trying to free herself of the terrible constraints of traditional rules,
> you certainly seem unwilling to accept new ideas.
Oh yeah, right. "Arrr arrr arrrrrrr. Slay all ye ideas b'fore boardin'
me ship." I most certainly am willing to accept new ideas. But guess
what Mr. D.: SOME ideas are failures. An idea does not an idea make!!!
> +However, oil pastel can be spread with turps (or
> +> similar) to give an oil wash.
>
> +That won't work either unless you fix what has been previously laid
> +down.
>
> It might well be the first layer - where an oil wash is usually most
> likely to occur.
>
So which one is it? Might be? Usually? or Most likely? lmao
=============
Naked Angel Art
http://www.rcip.com/nerdgerl
>
Bernt Oker
right@the_end.of.my_tether says...
>I assume these, like oil pastels, never actually dry and must be framed
>under glass?
I don't think you need to frame either
the oil pastels or the oil sticks under glass.
IN FACT, the artists I've seen in various
exhibits are using oil stick on canvas just
as you would ordinary oil paints. As for
whether or not they ever "dry" - that's
something I'm not qualified to address.
"Drying" implies evaporation is the only
mechanism at work. In actuality, there are
more complex chemical reactions (think
"oxidation") that occurs when oil-based
paints meet air. It's very different than
water based mediums where evaporation is
the more important "reaction."
Willa Catheter
Pagani <pag...@nospam.roadsideartist.com> wrote:
>
>Oil pastels represent a newer medium. These use a vegetable oil as a binder,
>making them waxier feeling...closer to a crayon. There are advantages and
>disadvantages to both. I usually prefer soft pastels such as Sennelier or
>Unison, but that's purely a personal preference.
Sennelier and Unison pastels make me weak at the knees. Do not pass "GO",
just skip all the student grade stuff and go right for those two brands.
Oh, and Sennelier makes pastel paper to die for. But if you want to just
start and save a little money on your sketches, get really fine grit sand-
paper. No, sandpaper is not archival, but most sketches and doodles really
are going to wind up in the landfill unless you're a reputed artist or
a celebrity.
--
"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics - even
if you win you're still retarded."
Kramer Wetzel, home of the Texas Shakespeare Massacre
Bernt Oker
>No, sandpaper is not archival
I'm no pastel artist but seems to me
they make sandpaper specifically for
pastel artists?!
Andrew D
wrote:
+In article <1036791541.756988@smirk>, e...@idiom.com says...
+
+>No, sandpaper is not archival
+
+I'm no pastel artist but seems to me
+they make sandpaper specifically for
+pastel artists?!
Some pastel papers look and feel like coloured sandpaper - but you
wouldn't use it as sandpaper. These papers are made by screenprinting a
layer of gritty pastel primer onto good quality art paper.
You can also buy the pastel primers which dry with a gritty finish.
Willa Catheter
I'm talking the stuff you get in the hardware store for when you want
to smooth the metal on your '66 Mustang before a repaint.
However, Sennelier makes this sandpaper texture paper for pastels that
is just (swoon) DREAMY.
Andy Dingley
>I'm no pastel artist but seems to me
>they make sandpaper specifically for
>pastel artists?!
Hermes H-CAB is a 400 grit aluminium oxide that's light grey in colour
and popular for pastels. Comes as 560x760mm sheets, or on a roll