Acrylic painting instruction/discussion?
peter nelson
become interested in painting with acrylics. I went out and bought
some paints and brushes and books and have been mucking about
and having a lot of fun. I enjoy their versatility of style and
expression
as well as practical matters like easy cleanup. But I definitely need
all kinds of advice about technique as well as other practical matters.
I think I would benefit from either formal instruction or an opportunity
to talk with other people working in this medium. Alas, I can't find
any evening acrylics classes anywhere near me (35 miles nw of
Boston). Boston itself (Mass College of Art or the Museum School)
is a long drive late at night. The DeCordova Museum is marginally
closer and has painting classes but the emphasis is on oils. All the
local art societies and adult-ed programs are fixated on watercolor.
Despite this there must be a lot of people working in acrylics
because there are at least 3 stores in a 15 minute drive of
me that sell Liquitex and other brands and I live in the boonies.
I also don't see any newsgroups for painting of any kind. (although
there are THREE ng's for paintball and at least two for digital painting!)
Suggestions? Thanks in advance!!
---peter
Degas5
>I think I would benefit from either formal instruction or an opportunity
>to talk with other people working in this medium. Alas, I can't find
>any evening acrylics classes anywhere near me (35 miles nw of
>Boston). Boston itself (Mass College of Art or the Museum School)
>is a long drive late at night. The DeCordova Museum is marginally
>closer and has painting classes but the emphasis is on oils. All the
>local art societies and adult-ed programs are fixated on watercolor.
>
>Despite this there must be a lot of people working in acrylics
>because there are at least 3 stores in a 15 minute drive of
>me that sell Liquitex and other brands and I live in the boonies.
>
>I also don't see any newsgroups for painting of any kind. (although
>there are THREE ng's for paintball and at least two for digital painting!)
>
>Suggestions? Thanks in advance!!
>
>---peter
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Peter,
Your problem in finding an acrylic class is not uncommon. I see the same
emphasis in my locale, Long Island, is on oils and watercolors. Even pastel
classes are easier to find than acrylics. However, on the bright side, I find
that many oil classes accept acrylic students. The technique can be similar to
oils, though with acrylic artists often mix media. If you use your acrylics as
oils are traditionally used, you would benefit from oil painting classes and
you'll more than likely find others in the class that use acrylics. Just make
sure that the teacher is a good one and qualified to teach acrylic media.
Bonnie
peter nelson
>Peter,
>Your problem in finding an acrylic class is not uncommon. I see the same
>emphasis in my locale, Long Island, is on oils and watercolors. Even
pastel
>classes are easier to find than acrylics. However, on the bright side, I
find
>that many oil classes accept acrylic students. The technique can be
similar to
>oils, though with acrylic artists often mix media.
(Curiosity: what does this mean, since you can't paint
acrylic over oil (or even over canvas or cardboard which has
accidentally gotten stained with oil, grease, or wax)?)
> If you use your acrylics as oils are traditionally used, you would
> benefit from oil painting classes and you'll more than likely find
> others in the class that use acrylics.
I'm looking for help with acrylic-specific issues. For instance,
I have trouble getting smoothly-graded colors (imagine a sky
which is dark at the top and light near the horizon) All acrylics
darken a bit as they dry but different colors do it to different
degrees. The result with me is the hue transition will look
smooth and even while its still WET, but after it dries it looks
streaky or blotchy.
That's just an example of the sort of thing I end up having
questions about and no one to ask.
---peter
Larry Seiler
> I think I would benefit from either formal instruction or an opportunity
> to talk with other people working in this medium.
<snip>
Peter....the best learning is the doing.....and if your background is one
of drawing...I can give a couple of suggestions.
Acrylics can be experienced as a painting medium, free...loose, painterly,
much like oils....however, acrylics are also an excellent "drawing" type
paint medium.
When I first went to acrylics in 1979....it was horrendous. My wife would
send the boys running outside when she would see a brush fly out of my
painting room! I had been used to oils. Used by amateurs thinking like
oils, they dry way too fast.
The great thing about acrylics is that no painting is every completely
lost. You can paint layer over layer over layer!
You can use it like watercolor.....so thin and washed that no one could
tell the difference. Yet...unlike watercolor, the pigment won't lift up
and become muddy but is more forgiving.
I used to teach using acrylics by having students paint dark to light with
many successive small brushstrokes. Think of your brush as a magic colored
pencil. Instead of needing a whole large pencil set...you buy one
pencil....(such as a number 2 synthetic sable round), and change the color
of it with the paint.
The secret is building it up progressively and patiently. Use enough water
to in essence draw with the brush- line and cross hatching. The layer
drawn or set down is dry by the time you go back to the paint on the
palette. You can render unbelievably well this way. A simple transparent
wash of warm color over the whole object or cool, can act as a glaze
pulling all the values together to create a sense of believable existence
in a space.
I do most of my illustrations this way such as my duck stamp and trout
stamp entrees for state competition.
To loosen up and feel more a "painter".....I mix about a teaspoon size
amount of paint with about half that amount again of Liquitex "Gelex" .
When acrylics dry, the water content evaporates and the texture of the
brush is lost, giving a plastic look. The colors of acrylic look often
more brilliant than oils for this reason.....because when oils maintain
that brush hair stroke drag...it physically creates shadows beneath the
texture captured of the brush hairs...and the shadows mix in the eye to
deaden or dull the brilliance of the color. If you take a palette knife
and swipe a flat area of oil color, placing it right next to the same color
applied with a brush.....from a short distance the flatly applied color
will appear more brilliant because it is minus the shadows the brush
texture creates.
To create an acrylic that appears more like oil...."gelex" creates more
impasto mass to the paint after the water content dries, and holds more
texture from the brush and palette knife. It can fool even the best of
gallery owners into thinking an acrylic painting is an oil. That happens
to me all the time!
I apply the gelex.....squint my eyes and still hold to the dark to light
idea, blocking in masses of shapes and forms with the larger flat area of
the palette knife. Then I use lighter values with more the tip of the
palette knife to create the illusion of detail and sculpt the shapes more
believable by focusing on the negative shapes. For example I can make a
tree very believable by not painting the tree...but by painting the light
of the sky poking through the foilage mass of the tree. I do the same for
patterns of water that convinces some I am perhaps one of the best at
water. (such as I've been told anyway).
I finish with a smaller round brush to apply little details, and can do an
acrylic landscape that fools the viewer of quite believable realism in
about two hours time.
Gee.....I'm here in the midwest where people aren't acclimated to buy
original art....and am considering after my son graduates this year to
perhaps begin traveling to paint and do workshops around the country. Wish
I could show you some of what I do. Hope things work out that way for me
down the road.
I invite you to visit my site....bypass the various portfolios in my
"Gallery", but go to the Landscape section to see what I'm doing.
Hopefully in a couple months I'll have about 20 more landscapes on
there...and eliminate a couple other portfolios that distract this
direction I'm going.
Oh.....btw...the secret to learning to paint is to do 120 bad paintings,
and after 500 paintings you'll have a style. Wish there was an easier way,
but that's just the way it works. Get paintin'! Have fun.....!
Larry
Larry Seiler
artist's web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
"Art attacks can skill !"
Degas5
Firstly, I never meant to suggest the mixing of oil and acrylic media. I
simply meant that an oil class would not be suitable for you if you painted in
mixed media as an acrylic artist. However, if you use your paint using
traditional oil painting techniques, an oil class should be fine. I paint with
acrylic artists, even though my class is an Oil Painting class and I myself use
acrylics and can't see much of a difference aside from the quick drying time.
I never encountered the problem of color shifts as you describe them in skies,
but if you have trouble with color shifts I would try Daler Rowney Cryla or
W.N. Finity. They are the newest acrylics and have little to no color shift,
they are high viscosity and a longer open time. I prefer the Cryla. I had no
problems as an oil painter for many years, using these paints. Pebeo is also a
very fine acrylic and I especially love their ultramarine blue. I assure you
that nothing but practice is going to help you in getting to know the
characteristics of your paints and mediums. That's the easy part. The study
of color and composition is universal to all art and that is why it wouldn't
make a difference if you took an oil class. You can learn how to grade your
values in your sky from your book.
Bonnie
A. B. Sieze
>Alas, I can't find
>any evening acrylics classes anywhere near me (35 miles nw of
>Boston). Boston itself (Mass College of Art or the Museum School)
>is a long drive late at night. The DeCordova Museum is marginally
>closer and has painting classes but the emphasis is on oils. All the
>local art societies and adult-ed programs are fixated on watercolor.
I don't understand why more teachers aren't teaching acrylics
to beginning painters. It's such a versatile system when compared
with the oil and watercolor approaches. I teach a beginning painting
class that is open to all comers -- their choice of system -- but my
emphasis is on acrylics and MOST of my students stick with that system
at least through the first semester. The hardest thing to teach is
to NOT be so economical with the materials. Use plenty of acrylic
medium -- either varnish or gel -- and plenty of white base if that
is your preferred way of painting. The tube colors will go a long
way if extended with the medium which is a lot cheaper than the
tube colors.Instead of using white tube color one can just as
easily use gesso. Another problem for beginners is brush manipulation.
Problems result from trying to use too-small brushes. Abby.
Dan Fox
I painted in oils for many years and switched to acrylics about 10 years
ago. I've also taught many classes in most media, so here's a little of
what I've learned from my own and my students' experience.
In terms of the medium itself (we're not talking about learning to draw
or paint here), much is often made of the mysterious techniques involved
in acrylic, watercolor, and pastel, for example. [A private teacher in
New Hampshire, for example, boasts that she teaches eight different
watercolor techniques. This is baloney and a waste of time. [Oil, on the
other hand, is tougher to do right and requires some technique lessons.]
In reality, you become familiar with a medium by using it - a lot - over
a period of time, getting the feel of it. There is no substitute for
this. If you're willing to experiment and screw up a lot, I guarantee
that over time acrylics will make sense. What helps with acrylics is
that you can keep painting over and over the same canvas or board,
saving a lot on materials.
In the meantime, the colors themselves will start to make sense. You'll
begin to remember that alizarin crimsons contains purple, that cad red
light contains orange, how the different blues and greens react to
yellow, etc. Whereas if you try to remember this by rote it's just a big
pain and you'll forget. Teaching can help a little, but you have to do
the work (and have the fun).
Don't let anybody kid you - you can get a full range of effects with
acrylic paints, including earth tones, thick impasto, etc.
Take any painting or drawing classes you can. By the way, some old
timers have a predjudice against acrylics. I think this goes back 20-30
years to when they weren't very good. Don't listen to this.
You can get your paints and other materials good and cheap from Utrecht
in Boston. They ship, and their store brand stuff is great. I've been
using it for many years.
Hope this helps a little. I'd be glad to answer more questions - feel
free to e-mail me.
Dan Fox
peter nelson wrote:
>
> I've been drawing - pencil, charcoal - for several years but lately I've
> become interested in painting with acrylics. I went out and bought
> some paints and brushes and books and have been mucking about
> and having a lot of fun. I enjoy their versatility of style and
> expression
> as well as practical matters like easy cleanup. But I definitely need
> all kinds of advice about technique as well as other practical matters.
>
> I think I would benefit from either formal instruction or an opportunity
> to talk with other people working in this medium. Alas, I can't find
> any evening acrylics classes anywhere near me (35 miles nw of
> Boston). Boston itself (Mass College of Art or the Museum School)
> is a long drive late at night. The DeCordova Museum is marginally
> closer and has painting classes but the emphasis is on oils. All the
> local art societies and adult-ed programs are fixated on watercolor.
>
Dan Fox
I dunno why more teachers don't suggest acrylics. I've had exactly the
same teaching experience as you mentioned in this regard. I think there
is a *fuddy-duddy* factor here, to wit, that acrylics are somehow
inferior to oils.
Dan
A. B. Sieze wrote:
>
> In article <76g4tj$vjt$1...@ligarius.ultra.net>, pne...@ultranet.com says...
>
> >Alas, I can't find
> >any evening acrylics classes anywhere near me (35 miles nw of
> >Boston). Boston itself (Mass College of Art or the Museum School)
> >is a long drive late at night. The DeCordova Museum is marginally
> >closer and has painting classes but the emphasis is on oils. All the
> >local art societies and adult-ed programs are fixated on watercolor.
>
Dan Fox
Have you considered writing a book? Or have you? I'd buy it!
You good!
Dan
Larry Seiler wrote:
>
> > I think I would benefit from either formal instruction or an opportunity
> > to talk with other people working in this medium.
>
Marilyn
When you write that book,
I'll buy one for me, and a few for my friends up here in Canada.
Already, you have international recognition as a potential author.
Go for it!
Marilyn
Larry Seiler
> Have you considered writing a book? Or have you? I'd buy it!
Well....um, thanks Dan.....and yes I have...and eventually I will if all
the finance side of it, publishing, etc., works out.
--
Larry Seiler
my art web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
"Art attacks can skill!"
Larry Seiler
> When you write that book,
> I'll buy one for me, and a few for my friends up here in Canada.
> Already, you have international recognition as a potential author.
> Go for it!
>
> Marilyn
*laughing*.....
wow....n'er famous, huh? haha...thanks, later!
--
Larry Seiler
my art web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
"Art attacks can skill!"
Larry Seiler
> I dunno why more teachers don't suggest acrylics. I've had exactly the
> same teaching experience as you mentioned in this regard. I think there
> is a *fuddy-duddy* factor here, to wit, that acrylics are somehow
> inferior to oils.
>
> Dan
I do enjoy oils very much...and you are right, there is a deep biase toward
them.
I'm not sure if its an archival thing.....because oils have been around so
long. I like to argue that acrylic dried is a plastic, and we know from
our sitting in those environmental classes in our college days that plastic
has a 125,000 year half-life as far as breaking down is concerned. The
acrylics stretch and contract for that is their nature, and I don't think
cracking will be a problem 300 years from now.
I've had my share of gallery owners suggest indirectly that I might be a
better painter or perceived as one if more of my working was in oils.
*shrug*.... who cares? Just get out of my way....I'm paintin' here!
Larry
Peter Nelson
. . .
>In reality, you become familiar with a medium by using it - a lot - over
>a period of time, getting the feel of it. There is no substitute for
>this. If you're willing to experiment and screw up a lot, I guarantee
>that over time acrylics will make sense. What helps with acrylics is
>that you can keep painting over and over the same canvas or board,
>saving a lot on materials.
>
>In the meantime, the colors themselves will start to make sense. You'll
>begin to remember that alizarin crimsons contains purple, that cad red
>light contains orange, how the different blues and greens react to
>yellow, etc. Whereas if you try to remember this by rote it's just a big
>pain and you'll forget. Teaching can help a little, but you have to do
>the work (and have the fun).
I'm pretty good predicting colors in my head and I've never found
any color or intensity I can't get from a small palette of 8 colors:
3 primary additive colors, 3 primary subtractive colors, plus
white and black. (As a software engineer my background
is in computer graphics and I also used to write drivers for color
inkjet printers, so I probably got a pretty good feel for colors that way).
The biggest technique issue I'm struggling with at the moment
is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
different colors - lighter colors tend to darken more. Since
any blend is comprised of a mix of 2 or more colors, the
ratio of colors determines how much darkening it does
as it dries so the blend doesn't darken evenly over its
transition.
I know there are "dry" methods for doing such blending, i.e,
painting with a loaded brush over a dried color, but I think
I need an instructor to demonstrate that.
>Don't let anybody kid you - you can get a full range of effects with
>acrylic paints, including earth tones, thick impasto, etc.
I've never heard anyone suggest otherwise - I chose acrylics
because of their versatility. Acrylics do seem to have a reputation for
being "advanced" - I don't see them very often among local town
or county amateur art societies, but I seem them quite often
in art galleries in Boston or on Cape Cod. I don't understand that
either because even though I'm a total beginner at painting
(I DO have experience drawing with pencil and charcoal) I
was able to get pleasing results the first time I picked up a
brush.
>You can get your paints and other materials good and cheap from Utrecht
>in Boston. They ship, and their store brand stuff is great. I've been
>using it for many years.
Finding the materials has been the easy part. Finding
instruction is hard. As I think I mentioned, even though I live
in the boonies, there are at least 3 stores (in fact I just
discovered a fourth!) in a 15 minute drive of me which
sell a pretty complete line of either Liquitex or Winsor and
Newton paints, brushes and other supplies. SOMEBODY
is buying and using this stuff! If I could figure out who I
could probably locate instructors. But even the staff at
the stores is mystified.
Thanks in advance for any comments or viewpoints!
---peter
mdeli
<pne...@ultranet.com> wrote:
>Dan Fox wrote in message <368D4F...@erols.com>...
>The biggest technique issue I'm struggling with at the moment
>is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
>near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
>a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
Blending is one of the big problems for those who don't know how to
properly temper acrylic paint.
Acrylics have the advantage of simulating all classical techniques;
the full spectrum from thin wash water colors, to gauche to blended
oils, fine glazes and impasto matt or glossy etc., if you know how to
handle them. Added to this advantage is the toughness of the film and
a total control of drying time. In other words you can accomplish a
similar finish in a much shorter time.
>Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
>looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
>darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
>different colors - lighter colors tend to darken more. Since
>any blend is comprised of a mix of 2 or more colors, the
>ratio of colors determines how much darkening it does
>as it dries so the blend doesn't darken evenly over its
>transition.
Stating the problem technically. You lay in two colors next to each
other and wish to feather an even blend. You can do this in oil
because it has a slow drying time. (if you know how)
So you must be able to temper the acrylic paint to slow the drying
time and avoid striking thru . Regular retarders won't work well
unless you dilute the paint to such a degree that you strike thru when
you attempt to blend by brushing. It then dries into an thin uneven
mess,
There is another problem which occurs before this which is overlooked
by most artists because they are irrational patzers who rarely take
any time to employ rationality and observation. That is that their
acrylic paint is busy drying on their pallette so that by the time
they pick it up its already partially set and results in a stringy
mess. This also results in lots of very dead very expensive brushes.
So you have to know how to keep the paint on the palette fresh.
If you don't solve these problems you will just schmier around and
slay lots of brushes. Of course you needn't know much of anything if
all you wan't to do is create a big abstract mess and call it art.
>I know there are "dry" methods for doing such blending, i.e,
>painting with a loaded brush over a dried color, but I think
>I need an instructor to demonstrate that.
Take a look at Vickery's book on painting with egg temperer. However
it won't help if you want smooth oil-like blends.
>>Don't let anybody kid you - you can get a full range of effects with
>>acrylic paints, including earth tones, thick impasto, etc.
You can also do things with acrylic that you can't do with other
paints.
--
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
Check out my webpage (updated Sept.13 - new pictures) to see some of my work and a Skeptical View of Modern Art at: http://www.interlog.com/~hugod
A. B. Sieze
>I do enjoy oils very much...and you are right, there is a deep biase toward
>them.
>I'm not sure if its an archival thing.....
Since we're discussing teaching beginners how to paint I don't
think the archival matters. It's teaching someone the manipulation
of paint that's the issue. I do think that oils are definitely
the easiest to learn with, all the negatives aside. But it's
the VERSATILITY of acrylics versus oils that I stress. I can teach
students the value of 'layering' glazes much easier with acrylics
than I can ever hope to with slow-drying oils.
One of the biggest problems faced by teachers teaching oils to
beginners is overcoming that unsightly 'chalky' look that most
beginners impart to their paintings because they don't understand
how to use mediums for their transparentizing.
The other advantage, in a setting where you don't have room to
store student's paintings between classes, is that carrying around
wet paintings is avoided with the use of acrylics. By the time
the class cleans up, the latest application of their acrylic is dry,
whereas the oil painter has to face the delicate task of getting
to and from classes with wet paintings.
Cheers, Abby.
A. B. Sieze
>The biggest technique issue I'm struggling with at the moment
>is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
>near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
>a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
>Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
>looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
>darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
>different colors - lighter colors tend to darken more.
Your problem is one of the few that I find a valid reason for
demonstrating in class. Generally I avoid teaching by demonstration.
With acrylics the quick drying is the greatest difficulty
to overcome when trying to create smooth blends. The other
thing you have to learn is a lot of deft brush work and how
to work rapidly with your brush strokes. A large bucket of
clear water for cleaning the brush between passages is also
an essential.
For sky blends I have always begun with several basic blues
(Cobalt, cerulean, etc) on hand and a
LOT of white. I think the only secret to success is working
very quickly, and using a BIG brush. You can't do even blends
on a large surface using small brushes. Just no way when working
in acrylics. I use at least a two inch wide brush for 'sofa
size' canvases -- an even wider brush for very large canvases.
I coat the sky area with a layer of white. I then begin working
from top to bottom adding in tube colors to create the blues,
dark at the top fading to light at the bottom. Often times
I'll add a bit of yellow or orange near the horizon line,
depending on the rest of the composition. The important thing
to remember is to have plenty of white available to mix and
match with as you add in the blues. It takes some
experimentation and is largely a matter of getting it all done
before it dries too much. This basic sky blend is for those
who wish a cloudless sky on a clear day. For someone who wants
a more interesting sky, you can come back with a
series of glazes or impasto cloud passages or whatever it is
you think will lend interest to a cloudless sky.
As for the retarding of drying time, there are commercial
retardants available that will keep the acrylics 'open' longer.
I have recently begun using plain old ethylene glycol (anti-freeze)
in my mixes when I want more 'open' time. You can also buy
propylene glycol for the same purpose from a pharmacist if the
poisonous nature of anti-freeze is troublesome to you. The latter
is a basic ingredient in cosmetics. Hope this helps, Abby.
Larry Seiler
--
> think the archival matters.
Of course, I agree.....working up art on a piece of shopping bag can work
fine! It was a comment I was making as to Dan's sensing of the biase
toward oils over acrylics....and the archival issue is one that comes up.
> It's teaching someone the manipulation
> of paint that's the issue.
of course....
> I do think that oils are definitely
> the easiest to learn with, all the negatives aside.
It will seem so for many...not for others, but certainly not an issue here.
I think acrylics is particularly harder to teach someone having spent any
amount of time painting with oils. I find that acrylics are easier to
grasp for a person that has a background in drawing with a "fear" of
painting. The layering and building up that dries nearly instantly has a
tactile feel and quality to it that is more linear and closer to drawing.
They need enough water added to the paint so that their brush drag flows
more like a pencil! <g>
> But it's
> the VERSATILITY of acrylics versus oils that I stress.
agreed.
> I can teach
> students the value of 'layering' glazes much easier with acrylics
> than I can ever hope to with slow-drying oils.
you bet....
> One of the biggest problems faced by teachers teaching oils to
> beginners is overcoming that unsightly 'chalky' look
which so many Impressionist pieces finished have....
So...I'm not sure many think it "unsightly"....but, I understand what
you're saying.
> The other advantage, in a setting where you don't have room to
> store student's paintings between classes, is that carrying around
> wet paintings is avoided with the use of acrylics. By the time
> the class cleans up, the latest application of their acrylic is dry,
> whereas the oil painter has to face the delicate task of getting
> to and from classes with wet paintings.
an advantage outdoors as well.....packing up and working your way back out
of the woods or elements....
take care......!!!
Peter Nelson
>In article <76lf9o$l66$1...@ligarius.ultra.net>, pne...@ultranet.com says...
>
>>The biggest technique issue I'm struggling with at the moment
>>is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
>>near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
>>a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
>>Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
>>looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
>>darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
>>different colors - lighter colors tend to darken more.
>
>Your problem is one of the few that I find a valid reason for
>demonstrating in class. Generally I avoid teaching by demonstration.
Ok, then if there are very few such problems, and given
that this thread is about locating a class in the first place,
do you think this might be a good candidate for hiring
a private tutor? It might be easier to find the latter since
in digging around I get the impression that the reason why
acrylics classes are so hard to come around here by is
the lack of STUDENTS - apparently yhere are people
who'd be willing to teach them but the shools and adult
ed programs can't fill their classes.
The main thing is that since I've never seen anyone
work in acrylics - only the finished results - there are
basic techniques issues that I have to invent from scratch.
Thanks for your comments/advice!
---peter
A. B. Sieze
>Ok, then if there are very few such problems, and given
>that this thread is about locating a class in the first place,
>do you think this might be a good candidate for hiring
>a private tutor?
By all means! Especially if it's someone whose work you
admire anyway and they would be willing to take you on
privately. Another option is to befriend an acrylic painter
who might allow you to simply watch them work in their
studio. Have you looked into purchasing a video or two?
I know they're available -- demo videos of artists at
work I'm referring to. Nita Leland is a regular contributor
to this group and has published at least two videos that
I'm aware of. But in the end all the advice about learning
by doing is the most valid, I think. Cheers, Abby.
Calli75682
painting in general. Also a chat room where you're likely to hook up with
fellow painters.
http://painting.miningco.com
Calli
Donald A Jusko
> >In reality, you become familiar with a medium by using it - a lot - over
> >a period of time, getting the feel of it. There is no substitute for
> >this. If you're willing to experiment and screw up a lot, I guarantee
> >that over time acrylics will make sense. What helps with acrylics is
> >that you can keep painting over and over the same canvas or board,
> >saving a lot on materials.
> >
> >In the meantime, the colors themselves will start to make sense. You'll
> >begin to remember that alizarin crimsons contains purple, that cad red
> >light contains orange, how the different blues and greens react to
> >yellow, etc. Whereas if you try to remember this by rote it's just a big
> >pain and you'll forget. Teaching can help a little, but you have to do
> >the work (and have the fun).
>
> I'm pretty good predicting colors in my head and I've never found
> any color or intensity I can't get from a small palette of 8 colors:
> 3 primary additive colors, 3 primary subtractive colors, plus
> white and black. (As a software engineer my background
> is in computer graphics and I also used to write drivers for color
> inkjet printers, so I probably got a pretty good feel for colors that way).
>
> is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
> near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
> a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
> Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
> looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
> darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
> any blend is comprised of a mix of 2 or more colors, the
> ratio of colors determines how much darkening it does
> as it dries so the blend doesn't darken evenly over its
> transition.
>
Hi Peter,
Here's a tip for you on painting the blue of the sky.
You only use a few colors, OK, The dark blue of the zenith could be Ult.
Blue and the middle could be Cobalt Blue and the horrizon could be be
Cerrilion (can't spell it cause I don't use it) Blue, Or you could just
add Diox. Purple to Thalo Blue to make an Ult. Blue for the zenith and
decrease the Purple till you got to the horrizon with pure Thalo Blue.
This is a faster and smoother blend that will give you the same colors.
If you paint the sky highlight cloud color over the whole sky first, you
can just wipe off the blue where the clouds are and add the clouds
deeper shadow color.
Always paint your sky first, it sets the tone for the rest of the
painting.
Don Jusko
> I know there are "dry" methods for doing such blending, i.e,
> painting with a loaded brush over a dried color, but I think
> I need an instructor to demonstrate that.
>
> >Don't let anybody kid you - you can get a full range of effects with
> >acrylic paints, including earth tones, thick impasto, etc.
>
> I've never heard anyone suggest otherwise - I chose acrylics
> because of their versatility. Acrylics do seem to have a reputation for
> being "advanced" - I don't see them very often among local town
> or county amateur art societies, but I seem them quite often
> in art galleries in Boston or on Cape Cod. I don't understand that
> either because even though I'm a total beginner at painting
> (I DO have experience drawing with pencil and charcoal) I
> was able to get pleasing results the first time I picked up a
> brush.
>
> >You can get your paints and other materials good and cheap from Utrecht
> >in Boston. They ship, and their store brand stuff is great. I've been
> >using it for many years.
>
> Finding the materials has been the easy part. Finding
> instruction is hard. As I think I mentioned, even though I live
> in the boonies, there are at least 3 stores (in fact I just
> discovered a fourth!) in a 15 minute drive of me which
> sell a pretty complete line of either Liquitex or Winsor and
> Newton paints, brushes and other supplies. SOMEBODY
> is buying and using this stuff! If I could figure out who I
> could probably locate instructors. But even the staff at
> the stores is mystified.
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments or viewpoints!
>
> ---peter
--
Aloha from Maui,
Don Jusko
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Donald A Jusko
instead of tube white. It's closer to your final painting consistency
and makes life easier.
Don Jusko
A. B. Sieze wrote:
>
> In article <76lf9o$l66$1...@ligarius.ultra.net>, pne...@ultranet.com says...
>
> >The biggest technique issue I'm struggling with at the moment
> >is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
> >near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
> >a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
> >Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
> >looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
> >darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
> >different colors - lighter colors tend to darken more.
>
> Your problem is one of the few that I find a valid reason for
> demonstrating in class. Generally I avoid teaching by demonstration.
--
Donald A Jusko
>
> Dan Fox wrote in message <368D4F...@erols.com>...
> . . .
> >In reality, you become familiar with a medium by using it - a lot - over
> >a period of time, getting the feel of it. There is no substitute for
> >this. If you're willing to experiment and screw up a lot, I guarantee
> >that over time acrylics will make sense. What helps with acrylics is
> >that you can keep painting over and over the same canvas or board,
> >saving a lot on materials.
> >
> >In the meantime, the colors themselves will start to make sense. You'll
> >begin to remember that alizarin crimsons contains purple, that cad red
> >light contains orange, how the different blues and greens react to
> >yellow, etc. Whereas if you try to remember this by rote it's just a big
> >pain and you'll forget. Teaching can help a little, but you have to do
> >the work (and have the fun).
>
> I'm pretty good predicting colors in my head and I've never found
> any color or intensity I can't get from a small palette of 8 colors:
> 3 primary additive colors, 3 primary subtractive colors, plus
> white and black. (As a software engineer my background
> is in computer graphics and I also used to write drivers for color
> inkjet printers, so I probably got a pretty good feel for colors that way).
>
> is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
> near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
> a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
> Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
> looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
> darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
> any blend is comprised of a mix of 2 or more colors, the
> ratio of colors determines how much darkening it does
> as it dries so the blend doesn't darken evenly over its
> transition.
>
Hi Peter,
Here's a tip for you on painting the blue of the sky.
You only use a few colors, OK, The dark blue of the zenith could be Ult.
Blue and the middle could be Cobalt Blue and the horrizon could be be
Cerulean Blue, Or you could just add Diox. Purple to Thalo Blue to make
Don Jusko
--
peter nelson
>Peter Nelson wrote:
>> The biggest technique issue I'm struggling with at the moment
>> is creating even blends, - Imagine a sky which is very dark
>> near zenith but bright on the horizon. I find it difficult to make
>> a nice even transition - my results look streaky or blotchy.
>> Even when it looks smooth when the paint is still wet it
>> looks uneven after it dries because acrylics not only
>> darken as they dry but the darken DIFFERENTLY for
>> different colors - lighter colors tend to darken more. Since
>> any blend is comprised of a mix of 2 or more colors, the
>> ratio of colors determines how much darkening it does
>> as it dries so the blend doesn't darken evenly over its
>> transition.
>>
>
>Hi Peter,
>Here's a tip for you on painting the blue of the sky.
>You only use a few colors, OK, The dark blue of the zenith could be Ult.
>Blue and the middle could be Cobalt Blue and the horrizon could be be
>Cerrilion
. . .
I don't really care about painting the sky per se, and if I did the sky
in question would be unlikely to be blue I just used the "sky" as
an example eveyone could relate to. What I'm describing is a
GENERIC problem I'm trying to solve: how to create smooth blends
between two colors or intensities, using acrylic paints. It could
be sky, snow, skin, cloth, paper, anything, any color. Good painters
can do it - I've seen plenty of paintings where it is done (with brushes,
not airbrush) but as a beginner I don't know how.
---peter
Larry Seiler
change points of value....the areas of gradation, allows for more blending
thru advantage of transparency. Also...if you try it first on a canvased
support, you can even use bristle brushes and blend by rubbing. The
texture of the canvas will help you accomplish that.
Also...as you near the point where it is starting to blend, resolving to do
any number of very transparent watercolored consistency washes it will take
will build up and eventually hide those edges, marks...etc., until it
blends as desired.
Takes practice. Experiment on smaller paintings.....9"x12" and get
control of an area that size before trying larger.
Also.....some artists water acrylics down fine enough to use thru an
airbrush and build it up that way as well, but successive built up
transparent washes is the usual manner.
Larry Seiler
my art web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
"Art attacks can skill!"
mdeli
<pne...@ultranet.com> wrote:
>>Hi Peter,
>>Here's a tip for you on painting the blue of the sky.
>>You only use a few colors, OK, The dark blue of the zenith could be Ult.
>>Blue and the middle could be Cobalt Blue and the horrizon could be be
>>Cerrilion
These sort of tips won't help anyone wanting to do accurate painting
which contains thousands of blends big and small. .
> What I'm describing is a
>GENERIC problem I'm trying to solve: how to create smooth blends
>between two colors or intensities, using acrylic paints. It could
>be sky, snow, skin, cloth, paper, anything, any color. Good painters
>can do it - I've seen plenty of paintings where it is done (with brushes,
>not airbrush) but as a beginner I don't know how.
As I said the paint has to be tempered to reduce the drying time. You
can do a test which will tell you if you have that.
Draw a triangle and try to fill it with a bend from one color to
another parallel to a base. If successful you will have a long blend
at the base and a shorter one as you get toward the apex.
If you can get a fairly clean blend by whatever means your paint is
working. You must also find a means of keeping the paint fresh before
using it. If you don't your paint will work for a while and then begin
to fail.
This is not a matter of skill emotion.self expression etc. It is a
matter of technique. Those who can't handle blends are destined for a
big mess.
--
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
Check out my webpage to see some of my work and read about a skeptical view of Modern Art at: http://www.interlog.com/~hugod
Helen Fleischer
>I don't really care about painting the sky per se, and if I did the sky
>in question would be unlikely to be blue I just used the "sky" as
>an example eveyone could relate to. What I'm describing is a
>GENERIC problem I'm trying to solve: how to create smooth blends
>between two colors or intensities, using acrylic paints. It could
>be sky, snow, skin, cloth, paper, anything, any color. Good painters
>can do it - I've seen plenty of paintings where it is done (with brushes,
>not airbrush) but as a beginner I don't know how.
>
Hello Peter
As you can see, I'm WAY behind on reading the newsgroup. One suggestion
I can offer on smoothing the transitions between colors and making nice
blends is to hie thee to a dollar store or cosmetic center and look for
a complexion brush. It is not a big soft make-up brush, though they also
have their uses, but something used for washing faces hard enough to
tear off the skin, if I'm any judge. It's a large multi-tufted round of
fairly soft, white nylon bristles cut off flat across the cylinder. I
like the kind with a bit of a handle.
For blending, I use it like the stipple brush that's used for faux
finishing (much larger and far more expensive, for doing marble
furniture and walls). That is, you lay down your colors and while still
somewhat damp, but not watery, you tap, or even hammer at them with the
flat ends of the bristles, for an effect not unlike airbrush or sfumato.
Wash the brush promptly and thoroughly and dry it well on a thirsty
towel before using it for any other blending. It's probably a good idea
to have a few of them. I know I'll be buying more. At a buck apiece, why
not splurge, eh? Yes, I got this idea from watching a large stipple
brush being used in a faux finishing demo on TV and having seen this
type of complexion brush frequently at dollar stores, I felt sure it
could work in much the same way on a smaller scale. It does work
superbly on panels. I have not tried it on stretched canvas, though I
suspect it will work nearly as well, if you support the fabric area
while tapping, or use a very much lighter hand.
he...@min.net http://www.min.net/~helen
Helen "Halla" Fleischer,
Fantasy & Fiber Artist in Fairland, MD USA