Alla prima oil painting... HOW???
Robert
Whatever I try, my colors allways blur, and I never get the sharp
contrasts and bright colors I'm after.
I'm sort of a newbie. I know about the classical layered techniques,
but that's way too brainy for me. I need a more direct technique, like
the one Van Gogh used (so I hear).
After a couple of fruitless attempts I no longer thinned the paint,
which improves the quality a bit but still not enough.
Is it some chemical that must be used to thicken the oil paint?
Something that makes it dry really fast? Or is it some brush technique
that allows one to paint contrasting colors next to each other without
smearing?
I really have no clue. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Robert
Paul Mesken
>Could anyone shed some light on the alla prima oil painting technique?
>Whatever I try, my colors allways blur, and I never get the sharp
>contrasts and bright colors I'm after.
This might be because you're overworking, brushing the paint too much
over the whole of the painting (it's an error I also often make). Put
down areas of pure paint (preferably one pigment paint) next to each
other, only mix the borders of areas of pure paint *iff* you want to
get a smooth transition but don't go over the different areas
completely.
OTOH It also might be the case that you only use bright colors, in
such a case no color can dominate (because they're all equally strong)
and thus the result would be flatness. A strong red looks only very
brilliant when put in a bigger area of, say, a dull, blue-ish green.
The strength of the color doesn't come from the paint alone, it comes
from the context (the surrounding colors) in which it is used. For
instance : Cadmium Red (PR108) looks dull when put next to DPP Red
(PR254). Cadmium red is not in the least a dull color, it's one of the
most brilliant colors but DPP red is even more powerfull and therefor
the cadmium looks dull.
>I'm sort of a newbie. I know about the classical layered techniques,
>but that's way too brainy for me. I need a more direct technique, like
>the one Van Gogh used (so I hear).
Note that alla prima is actually considered more difficult than the
layered techniques in which the problems of the drawing, the shading,
the color and texture can be broken up in stages.
Note also that van Gogh put strokes next to each other (he was kind of
a lazy pointilist ;-)
>After a couple of fruitless attempts I no longer thinned the paint,
>which improves the quality a bit but still not enough.
Good thing, turps kill color
>Is it some chemical that must be used to thicken the oil paint?
>Something that makes it dry really fast? Or is it some brush technique
>that allows one to paint contrasting colors next to each other without
>smearing?
Brushing too much also dulls a color (it gets a too coarse texture,
compare it to a smooth texture one gets from painting knives).
>I really have no clue. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Do stuff with single strokes, don't use the same brushes for different
colors, keep the painting fresh by not overworking, work with painting
knives for a while, experiment with colors in how they work together
(making lots of test boards), etc.
Rick Taylor
> I really have no clue. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Acrylic.
--
Rick Taylor - rickt...@speakeasy.net - {exile} - ex...@speakeasy.net
In a universe of free choice, unrestrained by divine tutelage, received
dominant ideas, or unshakable norms of "civilised" behavior, one can
do anything one chooses. {Free Noise Manifesto}
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>rob...@wxs.nl (Robert) writes:
>
>> I really have no clue. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
>
> Acrylic.
NO OIL! NO ART! ;-)
Rick Taylor
> On 18 Mar 2003 10:50:30 -0600, Rick Taylor <rickt...@speakeasy.net>
> >
> >> I really have no clue. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Acrylic.
>
> NO OIL! NO ART! ;-)
The medium is the message?
It is the easiest way to learn.
C. Enna
says...
>Do stuff with single strokes, don't use the same brushes for different
>colors, keep the painting fresh by not overworking, work with painting
>knives for a while, experiment with colors in how they work together
>(making lots of test boards), etc.
I agree with everything Paul says on this subject.
I'd rephrase the above to read - use a different
brush for different colors (or at least wash out
your brush before changing colors).
One of the best ways to learn to paint impasto,
IMO, is by using a painting knife. They come
in almost as many shapes an sizes as do brushes.
Once you master painting with a knife, alla prima
with a brush is a snap. NOTE: Palette knives are
NOT the same as painting knives. The latter are
much thinner and have much more flex than the
normal palette knife which is meant for mixing
and pushing paint around on the palette.
Another good exercise in alla prima is to use
oil sticks or oil pastels. You will find that
if you smudge them around it does much the same
as mushing paints around - creating muddied colors.
Andrew D
rob...@wxs.nl (Robert) wrote:
A light touch.
Some people add turps to the under layer which makes it thinner and allows
it it to dry a little before the main colours are applied. I just paint
the under-layer (shadow tones) with straight paint - scrubbed into the
surface (I use MDF primed with acrylic gesso. I don't use turps or
medium). I lightly go over this with a soft, clean brush in order to
"knock down" any high points. At this point I have a thin, blurry tonal
map. Sometimes I scrub with a paper towel to reduce areas of paint which
may still be too thick
Mid tones are applied a little thicker over this. Main colours and
highlights are added using thick paint with the brush held almost parallel
to the surface and the paint being gently dragged off the side of the
bristles - much like using a palette knife
A little interaction between adjacent colours is to be expected and in
many cases is desirable. If you want hard, straight, clean edges then alla
prima might not be your best bet.
Andy D.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"
C. Enna
right@the_end.of.my_tether says...
>with the brush held almost parallel
>to the surface and the paint being gently dragged off the side of the
>bristles - much like using a palette knife
Pulleeze! If we're going into the nitty gritty
then let's use the proper terminology. While someone
may well use a palette knife for applying paint (you
can use an ordinary stick if you wish), the correct
knife to use for painting is a "painting knife."
An added recommendation for the person who started
this thread. If at all possible find a painting
or two or three in the nearest art museum or gallery
where the artist used the alla prima method and
study why it works (or doesn't). Use a magnifying
glass if you can to study the individual brush
or knife marks.
Chris
"Robert" <rob...@wxs.nl> wrote in message
news:1ff24b02.03031...@posting.google.com...
> Could anyone shed some light on the alla prima oil painting technique?
> Whatever I try, my colors allways blur, and I never get the sharp
> contrasts and bright colors I'm after.
>
If you are interested in classical alla prima painting, (as versus, say, van
Gogh) you might whnt to look up Richard Schmid. I think he is considered one
of the best in the US; he has a book out about alla prima, though I haven't
read it. I prefer van Gogh :)
Chris
Andrew D
>In article <right-19030...@i204-187.nv.iinet.net.au>,
>right@the_end.of.my_tether says...
>
>>with the brush held almost parallel
>>to the surface and the paint being gently dragged off the side of the
>>bristles - much like using a palette knife
>
>Pulleeze! If we're going into the nitty gritty
>then let's use the proper terminology. While someone
>may well use a palette knife for applying paint (you
>can use an ordinary stick if you wish), the correct
>knife to use for painting is a "painting knife."
After reading another of your posts, I thought you might pick that up :)
... but I couldn't go back and fix it.
A palette knife is not a painting knife...
A palette knife is not a painting knife...
A palette knife is not a painting knife...
A palette knife is not a painting knife...
A palette knife is not a painting knife...
........
;)
Andrew D
<n...@this.address> wrote:
I've only seen Schmid's work in magazines and on the net but he's sure got
something happening and I wouldn't mind borrowing a cup of ability from
him!!
His book is at the expensive end of the price spectrum (over $200 in Australia).
Chris
"Andrew D" <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote in message
news:right-20030...@i168-150.nv.iinet.net.au...
>
> I've only seen Schmid's work in magazines and on the net but he's sure got
> something happening and I wouldn't mind borrowing a cup of ability from
> him!!
>
Nor would I; he is superb at what he does.
For those who are interested, his web page is http://www.richardschmid.com/
> His book is at the expensive end of the price spectrum (over $200 in
Australia).
>
Yeah, it's around 100$ US. His other books are even more expensive. I wonder
if anyone here is familiar with them?
Chris
C. Enna
says...
>Nor would I; he is superb at what he does.
>For those who are interested, his web page is http://www.richardschmid.com/
I found only three examples of his work,
but from what I saw I'd have to agree.
It's the kind of work that will always
have a market. It's been my experience
that artists who set such high prices on
their originals usually rely heavily on
sales from reproductions, not from their
originals. It's called 'mass marketing.'
I'm not saying that's what's going on
with Schmid since I know nothing about
him prior to this thread. But comparing
his work to someone like Kincaid, I have
to say - there is no comparison.This guy
is head and shoulders better, more on a
par with Andrew Wyeth.
Marc Sabatella
> Yeah, it's around 100$ US. His other books are even more expensive. I
wonder
> if anyone here is familiar with them?
I've seen only Alla Prima. It's an interesting book, filled with a lot
of wonderful paintings and a reasonable amount of insight into the how
and why or it - too many books are filled with demonstrations that
consist of only "this is what I did", and don't end up teaching you
anything more than how to reproduce that exact painting. On the other
hand, I would not say his book is four times better than anyone else's
and therefore worth four times more. If you don't have, say, Kevin
MacPherson's, or Richard McDaniel's, or, uh, LiPuma's (?), I'd start
with one of those to learn about basic alla prima technique.
Note: I've never tried oil painting myself (I'm a pastelist), so for all
I know, any of these guys could be full of @&%$. But their books read
well...
BTW, Schmid has a nice article in International Artist this month. It
is about his experiences with plein air painting, but not specifically a
"how-to".
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
Check out my visual art:
http://www.outsideshore.com/marc/art/
Dr. Slick
> >Pulleeze! If we're going into the nitty gritty
> >then let's use the proper terminology. While someone
> >may well use a palette knife for applying paint (you
> >can use an ordinary stick if you wish), the correct
> >knife to use for painting is a "painting knife."
>
> After reading another of your posts, I thought you might pick that up :)
>
> ... but I couldn't go back and fix it.
>
> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
An artist can be anal...
An artist can be anal...
An artist can be anal...
An artist can be anal...
An artist can be anal...
An artist can be anal...
Slick
Andrew D
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
>"Chris" <n...@this.address> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, it's around 100$ US. His other books are even more expensive. I
>wonder
>> if anyone here is familiar with them?
>
>I've seen only Alla Prima. It's an interesting book, filled with a lot
>of wonderful paintings and a reasonable amount of insight into the how
>and why or it - too many books are filled with demonstrations that
>consist of only "this is what I did", and don't end up teaching you
>anything more than how to reproduce that exact painting. On the other
>hand, I would not say his book is four times better than anyone else's
>and therefore worth four times more. If you don't have, say, Kevin
>MacPherson's, or Richard McDaniel's, or, uh, LiPuma's (?), I'd start
>with one of those to learn about basic alla prima technique.
>Note: I've never tried oil painting myself (I'm a pastelist), so for all
>I know, any of these guys could be full of @&%$. But their books read
>well...
I've seen a couple of MacPherson's books and would recommend them to
anyone interested in his style of painting. I'm not familiar with the
other two authors but will recommend "Paint the sea in oil using special
effects" by E. John Robinson (plus the videos in that series). He is clear
and conscise and his "techniques" have much wider application than
seascapes.
Andrew D
radi...@aol.com (Dr. Slick) wrote:
>right@the_end.of.my_tether (Andrew D) wrote in message
news:<right-20030...@i168-150.nv.iinet.net.au>...
>
>> >Pulleeze! If we're going into the nitty gritty
>> >then let's use the proper terminology. While someone
>> >may well use a palette knife for applying paint (you
>> >can use an ordinary stick if you wish), the correct
>> >knife to use for painting is a "painting knife."
>>
>> After reading another of your posts, I thought you might pick that up :)
>>
>> ... but I couldn't go back and fix it.
>>
>> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
>> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
>> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
>> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
>> A palette knife is not a painting knife...
>
> An artist can be anal...
> An artist can be anal...
> An artist can be anal...
While others are just arseholes. :)
Dr. Slick
> >
> > An artist can be anal...
> > An artist can be anal...
> > An artist can be anal...
>
> While others are just arseholes. :)
>
Actually, i was sticking up for you. :/
Slick
Andrew D
>right@the_end.of.my_tether (Andrew D) wrote in message
news:<right-21030...@i165-059.nv.iinet.net.au>...
>> >
>> > An artist can be anal...
>> > An artist can be anal...
>> > An artist can be anal...
>>
>> While others are just arseholes. :)
>>
>
> Actually, i was sticking up for you. :/
And I was just making a general observation - and this group has long
proved my point.