Question to Jane & realist painters
Dilettante
underpainting can be a base skin tone, say pinkish or light brown
depending on the model.
Then approaching the area closer to the viewer, a scumble of lighter
colour, possibly pinkish depending on the colour of the model.
Closest to the viewer would be not a white highlight, but a rosy area.
Is this close to a way to create a modeling of rounded body areas?
Dilettante
Chris
"Dilettante" <hu...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:ba63903f.0404...@posting.google.com...
Well, sort of. To have the highlight close to the viewer (which I think is
what you are getting at) implies that the light source is by the artist,
rather like a flash from a camera. It's very hard to get good modeling in
that case, since the interplay of light and shadow is much more difficult to
see from that angle.
If you have a desk lamp, you can see how this works pretty easily; put the
lamp at a low angle, make a fist on the desk, and then move the light, or
the fist, or your head a bit. If both the lamp & your point of view are
directly above the fist, it's all just generally bright, and there isn't
much sense of form; if the lamp is on the other side of the fist from your
POV, then you just see a flat dark, haloed object. Now move the lamp around
to a point where you start to get interesting deep shadows & highlights. The
highlights occur on areas that are angled such that the light can bounce off
them pretty much so that the angle at which the light strikes the skin
(technically the tangent plane to it) is the same as the angle it takes from
the skin to your eye. The highlight will be rather like the color of the
light you choose, impasted (not glazed) over the natural skin tone. The
area next to the highlight is generally treated as the natural local skin
tone (i.e. the skin tone seen outside, in clear daylight, but not in direct
sun), modified by the conditions under which you are painting. Then, if you
are moving to a shadowed area, you will see that the deepest shadows often
occur not where you expect them, but just off the more brightly lit part;
from there one may move into areas of reflected light (depending on your
arrangement) The reflectively lit areas are very important, they give your
brain a cue that that area, and the directly lit ones, are connected arond
the other side. and emphasizes the sense of form. A critical point though is
to see how that form is often delineated at the viusal edges by surprising
little effects that contribute way beyond what one would expect.
As for the color itself, the first thing to remember is that something like
80% of visual information is in tone alone, not color. But as for color,
remember that skin is translucent (though it gets less so with age and
varies over the body), so that what appears to be a surface effect is
actually often caused by the light passing through the skin and back out
again. The layers themselves are rather straightforward - reddish-blue meat,
yellowish fat, then skin itself which is ashen + whatever degree of melanin,
supplied with a greater (like the hands) or lesser ( like the underside of
the forearm) amount of capillaries that add red to the mix.
Cheers;
Chris
> Dilettante
Paul Mesken
important cool/warm issue that arises from the difference in color
from the direct light and indirect light. As you already pointed out,
the areas you'd expect to be the darkest (because they're turned away
from the light source) are actually indirectly lit by the light
bounced off from the environment (but they are _always_ darker than
the directly lit areas). This reflected light is typically of a
different color than it was originally (also less bright of course).
Because of the color difference there will be a cool/warm contrast to
take into account. Human visual perception magnifies contrasts and
this needs to be represented. Let's say the light source comes from a
setting sun. The highlights will be of an orangeish yellow and the
light parts of the skin will also be mixed with this warm color. The
indirectly lit parts of the body will typically be of a cooler color.
Even though it hardly ever will be a real blue (the contrast color of
orangeish yellow) those indirectly lit parts will _appear_ to be
blueish because of the way our perception works (magnifying the color
contrast). A bit of blue could be mixed in with the base skin color
for those parts. It is important though that the base skin color is
present in both the cool and warm part else it will look disjointed.
Rendering explicit cool and warm parts will bring much more live to a
painting. It's discussed in far greater detail right here :
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160583
It contains two interesting painted examples : one by Leopoldo which
shows a correct application of the cool/warm issue and one by Dana
Design which does not address this issue. The importance is made clear
by this.
BTW the handsome looking fellow on my posts in that thread is not me
but my little nephew Robin. He's the Prince of Darkness because his
eyes glow read on every one of his pictures :-)
DNALJM
Sunlight, which I usually use, would make the highlight a very cool blue.
On my own face I use a cool yellow like Naples mixed with cobalt, my blue of
choice, and blend it in with the surrounding tones. Rosy tones depend on where
on the body you are and the skin pigment. Around the nose and places where
there are a lot of blood vessels near the surface you get a lot of alizarin
crimsons and reds, of which I use cadmium. Other places on my body are yellow
ochre and terra verte, with only a bit of red cad or indian. Moving into the
shadows on a sunlit figure are warm shadows, burnt siennas, greens, and purples
in a blood-saturated area. My friend uses a lime green (not sure which) and a
bright cad orange to mix together for a basic skin tone on me and warms or
cools it down accordingly. Of course, if the model is wearing a red sweater
or is around another saturated color this will reflect into the skin tone and
the shadows especially.
Jane
DNALJM
post scriptum, the area on the edge will never be the darkest point due to
reflected light, this point "core shadow" happens right before that on a
rounded form.
Miriam
pictures by monochrome underpainting. There is a book called How to
paint like the old masters that will give you some ideas about how to
do it. Also, the webforum Artpapa has for sale lessons in what he call
flemish technique. You get a lot of good advice here, but it might be
difficult to grasp it all.
hu...@myself.com (Dilettante) wrote in message news:<ba63903f.0404...@posting.google.com>...
Paul Mesken
Yes, the edges actually represent quite a big area in 3D compressed in
a small area in 2D. Only in very rare cases will this area be the
darkest (and there's also the tiny hairs on the skin that catch light
from the other directions). There should always be a canonical quality
to pictures and suspicious visual coincidences should be avoided since
they are abhored by the brain. That's why black outlines around a
realistically rendered figure look so fake. Only in the rarest of
cases could such a thing be happening for real.
Black outlines are used to separate a figure from its ground but a far
better way of doing this is by what cinematographers often use : a rim
light. This is a light placed behind the actor/actress and it provides
in a kind of subtle and hazy "halo" around the body. Unlike the black
outline (which is virtually non-existent in real life) a rim light
happens a lot.
It also gives a "sfumato" feel to the edges, as it should be since
typically light and our little hairs on our skin give soft edges. I
also believe there shouldn't be too much color (not too saturated) on
the edges since this will make the edges "pop out" because of strong
color contrasts with the background. It will look like the figure is
copy and pasted into a new background. The figure should be separated
from the background but not be made to pop out of it.
Paul Mesken
>Perhaps it would be wise to try building up at least a couple of
>pictures by monochrome underpainting. There is a book called How to
>paint like the old masters that will give you some ideas about how to
>do it.
Yes, "How to paint like the Old Masters" by Joseph Sheppard. I have
it. It's a great book containing step-by-step demonstrations. Sheppard
is one of those "Black Oil advocates" :-)
Miriam
has a lot of useful information about underpainting. Not too
expensive.
Chris
"Miriam" <pos...@chello.no> wrote in message
news:c37739c3.04040...@posting.google.com...
You might want to give flake white (lead white) a go (depending on your
painting style). I used to stay away from it because of the health
precautions; but once I tried it lost any interest in the colder whites
(like titanium) except for special applications.
Most of the lead & heavy metal paints are perfectly safe, provided you don't
sand them & inhale the dust (or eat them; it used to be a common problem
with watercolorists who pointed their brushes with their mouths.). If you
tend to be sloppy, then barrier creams can help too.
Chris
Paul Mesken
>You might want to give flake white (lead white) a go (depending on your
>painting style). I used to stay away from it because of the health
>precautions; but once I tried it lost any interest in the colder whites
>(like titanium) except for special applications.
Yes, the Lead Whites (PW1) are far better for general use than
Titanium and Zinc White (PW6 and PW4, but Titanium white still reigns
supreme in the highlight department and Zinc White has good mixing
properties). The Leads are getting a bit rare though. Of all the
brands I've used I'd recommend Michael Harding for its whiteness
(www.MichaelHarding.co.uk) , the ones of Old Holland are terribly
yellow (more a cream yellow white). The ones of Blockx are equally
white as those of Harding. I don't particularly like Williamsburg. The
Flake White I have is too oily for my taste (but some people prefer
this) and it seems it wasn't mulled finely enough (coarse particles in
the paint). Harding is also cheaper than Blockx and Old Holland but of
the same superior quality (and the consistency generally falls
inbetween that of the dry Old Holland and the oily Blockx). I've heard
good stories about Ozog but I've never tried it. The dry pigment of
Kremer is much like Old Holland, quite yellow.
The lead whites often go by the names of "Cremnitz White" or "Flake
White" but be carefull that you get the real deal. The ASTM number of
Lead White is PW1 (should be on the tube or else it is listed on the
manufacturer's site). Of course, the tubes should feel _very_ hefty,
Lead White is one of the heaviest pigments around. There are Lead
Whites that are mixed with Zinc White (PW4) to improve handling
qualities. Personally I'd rather mix it myself so that I know how much
Lead White and how much Zinc White is in it.
>Most of the lead & heavy metal paints are perfectly safe, provided you don't
>sand them & inhale the dust (or eat them; it used to be a common problem
>with watercolorists who pointed their brushes with their mouths.). If you
>tend to be sloppy, then barrier creams can help too.
And else Calcium tablets will restore your health. It takes heavy
metals out of your system but don't overdo it for it will also take
iron out :-)
Miriam
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:14:29 -0300, "Chris" <n...@this.address> wrote:
>
> >You might want to give flake white (lead white) a go (depending on your
> >painting style). I used to stay away from it because of the health
> >precautions; but once I tried it lost any interest in the colder whites
> >(like titanium) except for special applications.
>
> Yes, the Lead Whites (PW1) are far better for general use than
> Titanium and Zinc White (PW6 and PW4, but Titanium white still reigns
> supreme in the highlight department and Zinc White has good mixing
> properties).
Do you use lead white for something spesific or is it the color tone?
Is lead white leaner than titanic white? Perhaps a stupid question,
but I really don't understand the benefits of the lead. Gamblin has a
non-toxic substitute for lead-white. They claim it dries slower than
the authentic lead-white and won't crackle.
Paul Mesken
>Do you use lead white for something spesific or is it the color tone?
>Is lead white leaner than titanic white? Perhaps a stupid question,
>but I really don't understand the benefits of the lead. Gamblin has a
>non-toxic substitute for lead-white. They claim it dries slower than
>the authentic lead-white and won't crackle.
I'm not surprised Gamblin has a color that dries slower than Lead
White. Lead White dries quicker than almost every other color :-) This
is because of the Lead. Colors containing Lead, Manganese or Cobalt
are all relatively quick driers (these metals are also used in
siccatives).
Lead White is the leanest of all colors. It can also be used as a
primer (the Lead White oil ground, quite popular before the times of
acrylic gesso). It's one of the quickest driers and if it's added to
other colors (which usually is the case) then those will dry quicker
as well.
OTOH Titanium White and Zinc White are exceedingly slow driers. The
paint film of Lead White is also superior whereas Zinc White is
notorious for its brittle paint film.
Both Titanium White and Zinc White are cool colors (they're a bit
blueish). Lead White is a warm white (a bit warm yellowish) which
perhaps makes it a better candidate for use in skin tones. I've always
found Titanium White to be a bad white to mix with. It slaps the
colors dead quite easily (makes them chalky). Zinc White is a far
better color to make other colors lighter with but (like Titanium
White) it's a slow drier. Lead White is also a good color to make
others lighter with.
The archival qualities of Lead White are proven, whatever the cause of
crackling, it won't be the Lead White that's doing it.
Erik A. Mattila
> Lead White is the leanest of all colors. It can also be used as a
> primer (the Lead White oil ground, quite popular before the times of
> acrylic gesso). It's one of the quickest driers and if it's added to
> other colors (which usually is the case) then those will dry quicker
> as well.
Paul,
I'm just in the process of purchasing a property w/ 2 houses on it, and
one of them is circa 1920. Chances are I'll encounter lead when I start
restoring the house. I'm thinking it may be cheaper for me to pay your
way to California, house and feed you, while you scrape the lead off the
walls, than some of the proscribed remediation schemes we have here in
California. Interested? There might be enough there to keep you
supplied for the next 50 years (as long as you wear a Hazmat suit while
painting so you'll live that long, that is.)
I could get lucky, of course. I'm concerned because the exterior walls
are primo old-growth redwood vertical T&G. It would be a shame to have
to cover over them to "contain" the lead, which is one of my options.
Good luck with your "killer" paintings. (Just kidding) I even tried to
make flake white once - applying acetic acid to a block of lead. I got
the white powder, but it was so little it wasn't worth it. I just
brushed it off, and then wiped my hands off with an asbestos welding
blanket that was laying around the garage. Usually I would have
washed-up with the leaded gasoline I had in a can, but that seemed
pointless, all things consdered.
Erik
Chris
> Is lead white leaner than titanic white? Perhaps a stupid question,
> but I really don't understand the benefits of the lead. Gamblin has a
> non-toxic substitute for lead-white. They claim it dries slower than
> the authentic lead-white and won't crackle.
I use it primarily for the colour. I find titanium way too harsh & blue
(rather like fluorescent lights), and zinc just has sort of a fluffiness
that's ok for special purposes but not as a general white (rather like
lamp-black). For priming, I use ceruse (which is, I think, just a slightly
cheaper form of lead white), from Sennelier, or Foundation white (from WN)
which has a rather unpleasant gray cast, even though it is lead. But I got
it dirt cheap, in a closeout sale. There is a range of different flake
whites, which has to do with different grinding tendencies & the choice of
oils; but I'm happy with Sennelier. I haven't tried Blockxx or Old Holland
though.
Chris
Paul Mesken
<emat...@oco.net> wrote:
>I could get lucky, of course. I'm concerned because the exterior walls
>are primo old-growth redwood vertical T&G. It would be a shame to have
>to cover over them to "contain" the lead, which is one of my options.
Actually, lead protects wood quite well against rotting. In the
Netherlands we used to use something called "loodmenie". I believe
it's called "Red Lead" in English although it looks a cadmium orange
to me. It's made of litharge if I recall correctly. Wherever wooden
beams were inserted in stone walls (damp places) the wood was prepared
with this stuff. That part _never_ rotted, even if the whole rest of
the beam had done so. Amazing stuff. Completely illegal since a couple
of years. The EU is doing its best to ban lead. Officially lead may
only be used in paint for restoration purposes. I think I'd better
stock up on the Lead White and Naples Yellow before the banning start
to be enforced more seriously.
Cliff D. Weller
says...
>The archival qualities of Lead White are proven, whatever the cause of
>crackling, it won't be the Lead White that's doing it.
Lead paint was outlawed in the United States in 1978.
The process of banning leaded gas began the same year;
leaded gas was completely phased out in the United States by 1996.
I don't know if the "outlawed" applies to artist
colors in the USA, but I do know it's virtually
impossible to find it from most art suppliers.
It may be the liability of selling it and the fear
of lawsuits that has effectively removed it from
the market here.
Chris
"Cliff D. Weller" <over...@dontemailme.com> wrote in message
news:4072...@news.zianet.com...
It was outlawed here too; but only as house paint. When I lived in
Newfoundland we used marine paints (which, at least then were still lead
based) as house paint. One didn't have much choice; regular house paint
didn't hold up very well to the North Atlantic.
As for artist paints - it has gotten to be a real headache here; the few
stores that catered to artists (like Loomis & Toles) have now gone in for
craft supplies, where quality isn't much of an issue. I usually have to
order most things from the States.
Cheers;
Chris
>
Erik A. Mattila
What really pisses me off is the ban on gallon size oil-based paints. I
go along with the reduction of flourocarbon emmissions, and quarts are
often handier to use. But the price - Buying four quarts of paint is
often double the price of a gallon. I can see paying for the container
- how much does a quart can cost a paint manufacturer? 20 cents?
another 10 cents for the label. It seems like the paint companies are
just taking advantage of the rules unfairly.
Erik
>
Erik A. Mattila
Hey, how about fishing weights as a source of lead pollution? I've been
known to add quite a few to the hydrological system in these parts. For
that matter, I wonder what the lead content of the soils in Verdun are?
Wouldn't that be something - the EPA outlaws war because of lead
pollution.
Erik
>
>
>
>
Miriam
> The archival qualities of Lead White are proven, whatever the cause of
> crackling, it won't be the Lead White that's doing it.
If interested - here is the description of the Flake White Replacement
from Gamblin's site. They claim that the fast drying time of Flake
White contributes to crackling.
"Flake White Replacement: All the working properties of Flake White:
long ropy stroke, warm color, translucency and short brush mark.
CONTAINS NO LEAD and does not dry as quickly. Conservators have
demonstrated that the fast dry time of Flake White contributes to the
cracking of oil painting over time."
Paul Mesken
>If interested - here is the description of the Flake White Replacement
>from Gamblin's site. They claim that the fast drying time of Flake
>White contributes to crackling.
>
>"Flake White Replacement: All the working properties of Flake White:
>long ropy stroke, warm color, translucency and short brush mark.
>CONTAINS NO LEAD and does not dry as quickly. Conservators have
>demonstrated that the fast dry time of Flake White contributes to the
>cracking of oil painting over time."
>
>http://www.gamblincolors.com/materials/whites.html
"Conservators have demonstrated that the fast dry time of Flake White
contributes to the cracking of oil painting over time."
Without any references of course, we just have to take the word of a
manufacturer. I guess this means that other quick driers like the
cobalt and the manganese colors are causers of cracking as well.
The most important cracking causes of oil paintings are listed in
Mayer ("The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques" from page
209, 5th edition). It's mostly caused by funny mediums and wrong
application, there's also climate involved.
Mayer doesn't share the negative view on Lead White of Gamblin. He
states that "It [Lead White] produces paint films of great
durability.". This kind of clashes with what Gamblin has to say about
it. Mayer also says of Zinc White : "It tends to make a brittle, hard
film in comparison with the tough, flexible film of white lead.".
Sounds to me that users of Zinc White have more to worry about than
users of Lead White. The defects of Lead White which are listed by
Mayer is that it is poisonous when taken internally and it turns brown
when exposed to sulfur fumes (basically means you have to varnish).
Now, Lead White is an extremely lean paint and it is easy to break the
fat over lean rule with it and this is a sure way of causing cracking.
But this is an application consideration, not an inherent defect of
the paint itself.
Here is an interesting discussion about the issue :
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172027
The lead paints are very old. Naples Yellow and Lead White are amongst
the earliest pigments and the fact that paintings made with them still
stand is testimony to their archival qualities. Their handling
qualities and drying times are excellent and they even impart these
qualities to other paints they're mixed with. They were once amongst
the most loved pigments but have fallen from grace because of their
toxicity in a time where painters are so overly concerned with their
health that they even hesitate to use turps. Personally I love its
properties and I guess I'm okay as long as I don't eat it :-)
Paul Mesken
<emat...@oco.net> wrote:
> Wouldn't that be something - the EPA outlaws war because of lead
>pollution.
Yes, I have heard that soldiers have died instantly of lead poisoning
on the battle field. Quite an outrage. Perhaps we should take lead out
of the equation and make war a healthier enterprise ;-)
BTW one of the funny statistics of the World Health Organization (who
make annual statistics of death based on cause) showed that there are
consistently more people who take their own life than people that have
died because of violence (war, murder, etc.). Seems we have more to
fear of ourselves than of the others :-)
Erik A. Mattila
You're joking? That's hard to believe. I'm not doubting you, just
expressing surprise.
I read about a study once of rats forced to live in crowded conditions.
They got very antisocial and quick on the draw. Lot's of rat fights.
They were quite stressed out.
Now I'm going to move back to town after living in rural areas
for...let's see, about 30 years now. Fortunately Brawley, Ca is pretty
small, but there is an occassional rush hour traffic jamb - especially
on three day weekends when the Dune Buggy crowd decends on us on their
way to the sand dunes near Yuma. Nice bunch, they regularly get drunk
out in the dunes, start fights among themselves, shoot each other
occassionally, and if you go to the hospital on these weekend they bring
them in by the truckload with all sorts of injuries. But what the hell,
those weekend camps are as crowed as a inner-city tenement - and no
walls or fences - not even doors.
But that's what's nice about summer here on the Colorado Desert. It's
too hot for tourists. Even the lizards carry canteens.
Erik
>
Mani Deli
>The most important cracking causes of oil paintings are listed in
>Mayer ("The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques" from page
>209, 5th edition). It's mostly caused by funny mediums and wrong
>application, there's also climate involved.
Most old paintings have various species of cracking.. In most cases it
doesn't detract from anything. It seems that many here are over
concerned with permanence. Atrocious work will tend to lack permanence
mainly because it simply won't be saved.
By using additives and a technical understanding of paint
properties.etc. most all qualities of paint can be emulated. One
needn't use toxic materials. Naples yellow is especially dangerous.
No skill no art!
Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
Erik A. Mattila
Mani Deli wrote:
>>The most important cracking causes of oil paintings are listed in
>>Mayer ("The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques" from page
>>209, 5th edition). It's mostly caused by funny mediums and wrong
>>application, there's also climate involved.
>
>
> Most old paintings have various species of cracking.. In most cases it
> doesn't detract from anything. It seems that many here are over
> concerned with permanence. Atrocious work will tend to lack permanence
> mainly because it simply won't be saved.
>
> By using additives and a technical understanding of paint
> properties.etc. most all qualities of paint can be emulated. One
> needn't use toxic materials. Naples yellow is especially dangerous.
That proves God is a jerk. I wouldn't say it's my favorite pigment, but
it always amazes me to see it at work.
Erik
Miriam
>
> By using additives and a technical understanding of paint
> properties.etc. most all qualities of paint can be emulated. One
> needn't use toxic materials. Naples yellow is especially dangerous.
>
with some sort of monochrome underpainting - or classical methods. For
instance - I think the Artpapa site uses damar in the underpainting,
and this "Paint like the masters" leans towards black oil. Using
non-lead and linseed means adapting things in your own way, and that
demands some knowledge of the materials involved.
I hardly know anything about these leadbased colors - so I won't have
any opinion about their painting qualities. I'm sure those liking them
have good reasons for it, but lead has spread into the eco-system
through gasoline and other industrial products - and it's extremely
detrimental.
Paul Mesken
>I hardly know anything about these leadbased colors - so I won't have
>any opinion about their painting qualities. I'm sure those liking them
>have good reasons for it, but lead has spread into the eco-system
>through gasoline and other industrial products - and it's extremely
>detrimental.
The lead based colors are not the only environmental unfriendly
colors. The Cobalts, Cadmiums and Manganese are also polluting (when
getting into the eco-system). Oil painters wanting to use
environmental friendly stuff should stick to the carbon based colors
(like Phtalocyanines and the DPP's) and the iron based colors (the
"Mars" colors, Yellow Ochre, etc.). Probably also use OMS (odorless
mineral spirits) instead of turps.
The manufacturer you mentioned (Gamblin Colors) is quite
environmentally aware. The boss of the factory (Martha Gamblin) visits
WetCanvas regularly and has told that her family actually lives in the
factory in which the paint is made (she dispelled the idea that
Gamblin Colors was a huge Artist's Colors company). She's very
concerned that no toxic materials are used (although they do use heavy
metals like Cadmium, but they're not really poisonous to humans).
However, I would take Gamblin's attacks on lead based paints with a
grain of salt. On WetCanvas they never succeeded in coming up with
real proof that lead based paints are bad (from an archival viewpoint)
while evidence from other sources point in the other direction. Let's
not forget it is in their interest that these toxic paints are made
suspicious since they offer replacements for it.
Neil Maxwell
wrote:
>BTW one of the funny statistics of the World Health Organization (who
>make annual statistics of death based on cause) showed that there are
>consistently more people who take their own life than people that have
>died because of violence (war, murder, etc.). Seems we have more to
>fear of ourselves than of the others :-)
Hmm... Do they include accidental violence in that? US stats for
2001 (which won't reflect global causes, obviously) show that cars
kill the most people in accidental deaths, at 42k deaths. Overall,
suicide does outstrip homicide by 30k vs 20k, and firearms suicides
are higher than homicides by 17k vs 11k. We have met the enemy, and
he is us.
Of course, if you throw in lifestyle related deaths (due to obesity,
alcohol, smoking, etc), and consider those a form of slow suicide,
there's no question about it - suicide is #1!
The 2001 US data is here. It's an interesting read, if you care about
such stuff.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
Dilettante
Atrocious work will tend to lack permanence
> mainly because it simply won't be saved.
Guess I'll never have this problem, because people actually fight to
own one of my pieces.
D.
Miriam
> The lead based colors are not the only environmental unfriendly
> colors. The Cobalts, Cadmiums and Manganese are also polluting (when
> getting into the eco-system). Oil painters wanting to use
> environmental friendly stuff should stick to the carbon based colors
> (like Phtalocyanines and the DPP's) and the iron based colors (the
> "Mars" colors, Yellow Ochre, etc.). Probably also use OMS (odorless
> mineral spirits) instead of turps.
>
Without knowing it - I suppose the reason for a complete banning of
lead is the industrial use of it. As for cobalts at least, I think
environmental concern would mostly be the working environment for
those extracting it - which is a great problem with lead too. So I
suppose that without industrial use of lead artists would have been
left with the choice of killing themselves - or not killings
themselves - while using it - without any offical interferens.
> The manufacturer you mentioned (Gamblin Colors) is quite
> environmentally aware. The boss of the factory (Martha Gamblin) visits
> WetCanvas regularly and has told that her family actually lives in the
> factory in which the paint is made (she dispelled the idea that
> Gamblin Colors was a huge Artist's Colors company). She's very
> concerned that no toxic materials are used (although they do use heavy
> metals like Cadmium, but they're not really poisonous to humans).
>
> However, I would take Gamblin's attacks on lead based paints with a
> grain of salt. On WetCanvas they never succeeded in coming up with
> real proof that lead based paints are bad (from an archival viewpoint)
> while evidence from other sources point in the other direction. Let's
> not forget it is in their interest that these toxic paints are made
> suspicious since they offer replacements for it.
>
If their arguments adheres as well to salt as to lead, I prefer to
take them with some salt rather than a grain of lead.
Mani Deli
-and that's why you can't show them. Did you finish the elephant yet?
Dilettante
> Perhaps it would be wise to try building up at least a couple of
> pictures by monochrome underpainting.
I think you mean here a value underpainting that I know by the name
grisaille. I think if you do this then most of the paint over that
have to be glazes, except for the highlight.
Dilettante
Dilettante
Did you finish the elephant yet?
Yes, and even before I finished them, the entire series was bought up
for the secret Vatican collection. I can't imagine how they found out.
Dilettante
Jonsmind
Word of mouth, I suppose. Wasn't it your previous series of a dozen
works, involving chihuahuas, playing pinoccle, that impressed the Pope
so, he wanted to canonize you? Or was it, shoot you out of a cannon.
I don't remember.
Dilettante
> I don't remember.
I didn't think you would.
D.
NightMist
Just random lexicon as occurs when languages collide. A grisaille is
a monotone, in black and white (shades of grey). If memory serves, I
was told that at least originally it was applied as term to monotones
where a high degree of dimensionality was striven for. Still it is a
term for a monotone, and usually the term of choice for one done in
black and white.
I work with glazes over montones or a grisaille. You are correct, at
least about the way I work with the monotone underpainting. Since
beginning with a monotone is a very old technique there are very
likely other ways of doing things with it.
Barbara
--
"It's such a gamble when you get a face"
- Richard Hell