Please Help: Women Artists Poll
Sharel
Hello Everyone!
I am an art student who has put together a short poll for my Women in
Art class. If you have a free moment, I'd be grateful for your
replies.
1. List as many women artists as you can think of.
2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
obsolete?
You can post a reply or email me at foma...@excite.com.
Thanks
Sharel Brown
cao...@redsuspenders.com
sbr...@niner.uncc.edu (Sharel) wrote:
>
>
> Hello Everyone!
>
> I am an art student who has put together a short poll for my Women in
> Art class. If you have a free moment, I'd be grateful for your
> replies.
>
> 1. List as many women artists as you can think of.
Now, is that women who are artists, or artists who portray women?
>
> 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
> obsolete?
They weren't necessary in the first place. Any good Survey of the Arts course
will include the work of women who are artists, as well as the portrayal of
women in the arts. It will also discuss the issue of who supported
the artist whilst s/he wasn't earning a living. If it is an honest
course, it will also discuss why there are so few prominent women who
were artists in past eras. Glorifying mediocre artists and artwork simply
because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation of
the arts.
Chris Owens
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Philip Lewis
<74b6vk$63d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
|In article <36685b32...@news.mindspring.com>,
| sbr...@niner.uncc.edu (Sharel) wrote:
|>
|>
|> Hello Everyone!
|>
|> I am an art student who has put together a short poll for my Women in
|> Art class. If you have a free moment, I'd be grateful for your
|> replies.
|>
|> 1. List as many women artists as you can think of.
|
|Now, is that women who are artists, or artists who portray women?
|>
|> 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
|> obsolete?
|
|They weren't necessary in the first place. Any good Survey of the Arts
course
|will include the work of women who are artists, as well as the portrayal of
|women in the arts. It will also discuss the issue of who supported
|the artist whilst s/he wasn't earning a living. If it is an honest
|course, it will also discuss why there are so few prominent women who
|were artists in past eras. Glorifying mediocre artists and artwork simply
|because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation
of
|the arts.
|
Well said Chris - Germaine Greer wrote about the tendency of SOME feminists
to try and elevate unworthy female artists etc in "The Slipshod Sybils" - I
believe it caused quite a furore when it was first published - but only I
suspect among those feminists who believe the word "female" automatically
accords some special consideration. :-o)
|Chris Owens
|
Phil
(Politically Incorrect And Proud Of It)
Bob C
>
> >
> > 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
> > obsolete?
>
> They weren't necessary in the first place. Any good Survey of the Arts course
> will include the work of women who are artists, as well as the portrayal of
> women in the arts. It will also discuss the issue of who supported
> the artist whilst s/he wasn't earning a living. If it is an honest
> course, it will also discuss why there are so few prominent women who
> were artists in past eras.
I would think anything which goes further than superficial conjectures
about male dominance in art history is beyond the scope of most Survey
of the Arts courses. There is no single correct answer to the "why" in
your statement and no limit to the depth one could go into trying
explain, thus it makes for reasonable course material.
I also don't see anything particularly wrong with a course which singles
out the work of women. We have courses which single out the work of
various time periods or geographic areas because even when many of the
works discussed are very different they were produced under many of the
same influences. It's quite likely that there may be common influences
which women artists have experienced regardless of time or place.
I don't know if either of these, however, is what is meant by a "Women
in Art" class.
> Glorifying mediocre artists and artwork simply
> because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation of
> the arts.
>
I agree, but simply identifying them does no harm. I think there is
something to be gained in appreciation of the arts by studying talented
and successful artists other than those of the standard canon. The
decision to specifically choose women as those artists doesn't have a
lot of value for me personally, but I don't pretend to be able to
completely understand the ways in which a woman might value such a
decision.
- Bob C.
Marilyn
> because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation of
> the arts.
Why would anyone want to glorify any mediocre artists or artwork. Is there an
assumption here, that if women artists' work were selected on the basis
of gender, the work would be mediocre? Women artists are not fairly
represented whether in art history books, or in group shows, the numbers
prove this. We have disease art, ethnic art, why not women's art?
The truth is "We've come a short way, baby."
Marilyn
cao...@redsuspenders.com
Historically, there were few women artists; hence their absence in art history
books. In more recent times, there have been many more women artists; some
quite good, others quite poor. Selecting ANYTHING on the basis of sex, rather
than quality means that some mediocre work will be included.
DFRussell
>> Glorifying mediocre artists and artwork simply
>> because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation of
>> the arts.
>
>
>Why would anyone want to glorify any mediocre artists or artwork.
Good question. Look at all the people who like Cezanne. <heh heh heh>
> Is there an
>assumption here, that if women artists' work were selected on the basis
>of gender
People don't have "gender," words do. The use of this word where you
should have used "sex" is a sure sign of rampant political correctness
or stupidity.
>, the work would be mediocre? Women artists are not fairly
>represented whether in art history books, or in group shows, the numbers
>prove this.
"Fairly" -- this word means nothing except that the person using it
wasn't pleased with some condition and couldn't justify their pique
with specific examples.
The delta in the percentage of representation "proves" nothing. You
*assumed* that everyone is created equal. There is nothing to
indicated that that is the case. A basic fact: men are not women and
women are not men. I know it might be difficult for you to accept;
deal with it.
> We have disease art, ethnic art, why not women's art?
Indeed! Why not!
If artists -- who happen to be women -- would like to be historically
marginalized, it's a *marvelous* idea.
>The truth is "We've come a short way, baby."
Well, Marilyn, I have a suggestion for you: stop blaming other people
for *your* failure. The constant whine is becoming tiresome.
Mattison
: Hello Everyone!
: I am an art student who has put together a short poll for my Women in
: Art class. If you have a free moment, I'd be grateful for your
: replies.
: 1. List as many women artists as you can think of.
claudel
okeefe
fitzgerald
kahalo
martin
moller
carnwath
carr
holzer
munter
morisot
morgan
hunnington
chicago
nevelson
neel
Krasner
de kooning
mitchell
raify
fish
murray
pindell
moses
patterson
cunningham
: 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
: obsolete?
I took the very first ever women in Art classinthe history of the planet
at UCSC in 1983. It was the only class worth taking in my artistic and
scholastic history. If it cost 100K for my education then I could trade
the entire thing for that one class!
The class was taught by real
professional women artists working in the field, Not educators!! thank
god...most teaching artists have no clue how to make the art world work
in my experience... real
woring artists offer far more value to the students educational dollar.
It was great and the only class in my entire educational
history worth taking. I would not be a professiional artist today with
the successes I have obtained with out having had that input.
Definately, there should be more classes designed as I described above on
every genere of art, craft, architecture and creativity.
: You can
post a reply or email me at foma...@excite.com.
: Thanks
: Sharel Brown
Can you send me a copy of you paper ... than you for your time.
Mattison Fitzgerald
31 Union Street
San Jose, Ca 95110
http://www.rhinodev.com/M
Mattison
: In article <36685b32...@news.mindspring.com>,
: sbr...@niner.uncc.edu (Sharel) wrote:
: >
: >
: > Hello Everyone!
: >
: > I am an art student who has put together a short poll for my Women in
: > Art class. If you have a free moment, I'd be grateful for your
: > replies.
: >
: > 1. List as many women artists as you can think of.
: Now, is that women who are artists, or artists who portray women?
: >
: > 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
: > obsolete?
: They weren't necessary in the first place. Any good Survey of the Arts course
: will include the work of women who are artists, as well as the portrayal of
: women in the arts. It will also discuss the issue of who supported
: the artist whilst s/he wasn't earning a living. If it is an honest
: course, it will also discuss why there are so few prominent women who
: were artists in past eras. Glorifying mediocre artists and artwork simply
: because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation of
: the arts.
Is this a hint of backlash here ?
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodev.com/M
Mattison
: In article <3669E17A.29DE@not_a_real_address.ca>,
: Marilyn <mw@not_a_real_address.ca> wrote:
: > > Glorifying mediocre artists and artwork simply
: > > because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation
: of
: > > the arts.
: > Why would anyone want to glorify any mediocre artists or artwork. Is there an
: > assumption here, that if women artists' work were selected on the basis
: > represented whether in art history books, or in group shows, the numbers
: > The truth is "We've come a short way, baby."
: Historically, there were few women artists; hence their absence in art history
: books. In more recent times, there have been many more women artists; some
: quite good, others quite poor. Selecting ANYTHING on the basis of sex, rather
: than quality means that some mediocre work will be included.
: Chris Owens
Just the fact women get anywher ein art is amazing still! Most men
artists have some woman doing all the follow up work where women today
rarely to never have theri husbands doing work for them in administration.
I have to run one company to afford to get my art out then do the art and
run that company too. Most men artistson the same calibper of success
with me todat and my age I have noticed all havew girl friends ding the
sweep up work and some women artists withe the same successes as I have
husbands paying the rent I do not. In the long run I think this wil make
my strengths even stronger for weathering everything and building it all
on my own and this will aid my ability to produce more and do better
business in the long run.
I am watching tons of 50's male artists who haven't quite made it and
their wives sick of it leave and leave them in a shambles too.
Looking forward to not having to do that, as I purposely designed my businesses
around dependance on one source to ensure survival in many storms.
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodev.com/M
Link M!
cao...@redsuspenders.com
mat...@netcom.com (Mattison) wrote:
> : > 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
> : > obsolete?
>
> : They weren't necessary in the first place. Any good Survey of the Arts
course
> : will include the work of women who are artists, as well as the portrayal of
> : women in the arts. It will also discuss the issue of who supported
> : the artist whilst s/he wasn't earning a living. If it is an honest
> : course, it will also discuss why there are so few prominent women who
> : because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation
of
> : the arts.
>
Why no. I happen to be a woman. I also happen to be an artist. I also
happen to have been the victim of compulsory course work in 'women's studies'
where I encountered more blather than anywhere else other than my, equally
compulsory, course work in education. Just because a woman does it, doesn't
make it good.
Mattison
: In article <mattartF...@netcom.com>,
: Chris Owens
Right! It simply makes it BETTER!!!!
ahahahahhhahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
Mattison
ggglzzzzz
Kerry Keane
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Mattison wrote:
> cao...@redsuspenders.com wrote:
The question asked was:
> : > : > 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
> : > : > obsolete?
> : >
> : > : They weren't necessary in the first place. Any good Survey of the Arts
> : course
> : > : will include the work of women who are artists, as well as the portrayal of
> : > : women in the arts. It will also discuss the issue of who supported
> : > : the artist whilst s/he wasn't earning a living. If it is an honest
> : > : course, it will also discuss why there are so few prominent women who
> : > : were artists in past eras. Glorifying mediocre artists and artwork simply
> : > : because they are women / done by women doesn't do anything for appreciation
> : of
> : > : the arts.
> : >
> : > Is this a hint of backlash here ?
>
> : Why no. I happen to be a woman. I also happen to be an artist. I also
> : happen to have been the victim of compulsory course work in 'women's studies'
> : where I encountered more blather than anywhere else other than my, equally
> : compulsory, course work in education. Just because a woman does it, doesn't
> : make it good.
>
> Right! It simply makes it BETTER!!!!
>
> ahahahahhhahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
Yawn. Please tell me you're not doing
this for a class. If you respond to a
painting, drawing or a sculptural work
according to the sex of the artist, you
haven't the faintest idea what art is.
I myself have no interest in such bean-counting.
I think a more interesting and fruitful exercise, however,
would be to ask: how does one's gender, being a largely
socially constructed thang, influence one's
aesthetics and values. Maybe I should rather say, one's
*experience* of one's gender, because for many people,
it's too much of a burden to think about all the time
(I count myself among them). I think it often
does, although I also think that historically, male
artists, as "bohemians" or outsiders or what-have-you,
have often delved into emotional terrain that is
normally considered "off-limits" for a man.
As I get older, I'm less interested in studying
feminism and gender and all of that -- but every
so often, and often when I least expect, I find
that I'm suddenly pinched on the ass by what I feel
is an annoyingly macho attitude in art, or in literature.
So, I can't say that gender doesn't affect what I do,
because I'd like to think that my life is about resisting
those values.
If this is poorly stated, I apologize. I have
not yet had that crucial seventh cup of coffee.
-Kerry
(posting from rec.arts.fine and NOT alt.fem :P !
Marilyn
Better grab that coffee, once you said that gender was
a socially constructed thang, you lost me. Since gender
is decided in utero, where society's consruction has not yet much
influence. There is gender and then there is sexuality.
But let's get back to fine art.
Marilyn
Kerry Keane
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Marilyn wrote:
> Kerry Keane wrote:
> >
> > If this is poorly stated, I apologize. I have
> > not yet had that crucial seventh cup of coffee.
> >
> > -Kerry
> > (posting from rec.arts.fine and NOT alt.fem :P !
>
>
> Better grab that coffee, once you said that gender was
> a socially constructed thang, you lost me. Since gender
> is decided in utero, where society's consruction has not yet much
> influence. There is gender and then there is sexuality.
No, there is gender identity and there is biological sex.
I am a woman, but I might choose to dress and act
in a manner associated with men. In doing this,
I'm adopting the gender identity of a man. Check the
writings of gender-benders like Kate Bornstein if you
don't believe me.
> But let's get back to fine art.
Which we all know has nought to do
with such dreary matters as identity.
Marilyn
In art,
We use everything we have and everything we are.
Have it your way,
let's say there is biology/physiology in the beginning of life
and then there are social constructs.
M.
DFRussell
>Better grab that coffee, once you said that gender was
>a socially constructed thang, you lost me.
*Words* have "gender".
> Since gender
>is decided in utero,
Wrong. *Sex* is decided in utero. Repeat after me, "*Words* have
gender. People have sex." (pun intended)
Gender does not mean sex -- at least not yet. Possibly if enough
really special people who can't bear to say "sex" continue to misuse
"gender" it might at some time.
> where society's consruction has not yet much
>influence. There is gender and then there is sexuality.
>But let's get back to fine art.
>
>Marilyn
joanna
Kerry Keane wrote in message ...
>haven't the faintest idea what art is.
>
>I myself have no interest in such bean-counting.
>
>I think a more interesting and fruitful exercise, however,
>would be to ask: how does one's gender, being a largely
>socially constructed thang, influence one's
>aesthetics and values. Maybe I should rather say, one's
>*experience* of one's gender, because for many people,
>it's too much of a burden to think about all the time
>(I count myself among them). I think it often
>does, although I also think that historically, male
>artists, as "bohemians" or outsiders or what-have-you,
>have often delved into emotional terrain that is
>normally considered "off-limits" for a man.
>
>As I get older, I'm less interested in studying
>feminism and gender and all of that -- but every
>so often, and often when I least expect, I find
>that I'm suddenly pinched on the ass by what I feel
>is an annoyingly macho attitude in art, or in literature.
>So, I can't say that gender doesn't affect what I do,
>because I'd like to think that my life is about resisting
>those values.
>
>not yet had that crucial seventh cup of coffee.
>
>-Kerry
>(posting from rec.arts.fine and NOT alt.fem :P !
>
In the attempt to fill in the gap, "women in art" starts to sound like "the
Special Olympics". As an artist who happens to be female, I would like to
move on from this segrigation and stop perpetuating sexism in art.
Let us view the lack of female artists in history as the lack of basic human
rights. Now that we have established our rights and know that we are all
equal (as Sister Wendy says sarcastically) let us ladies make up for some
serious lost time.
stev...@aol.com
1. Adams, Beatrice
(American, b.1884)
Adams, Van Rensselaer, Mrs.
2. Adriani, Elisabeth
(Dutch painter, b.1873)
Adriani-Hovy, Mrs. C.
3. Adshead, Mary
(British artist, 1904-)
Bone, Stephen, Mrs., (Mary)
4. Agar, Eileen
(British painter, b.1904)
Bard, Joseph, Mrs., (Eileen)
5. Airy, Anna
(British artist, 1882-1964)
Pocock, Geoffrey Buckingham, Mrs., (Anna R.E.)
6. Akin, James, Mrs.
(American artist, op.circa 1803-)
7. Allan, Rosemary
(British artist, 1911-)
Gwynne-Jones, Rosemary Allan, Mrs.
8. Anderson, Sophie
(British painter, 1823-ca. 1898)
Anderson, Mrs. Sophie (Walter)
Anderson, Mrs Walter (Sofie)
Anderson, Sophie, Mrs.
Anderson, Walter, Mrs.
9. Anson, Minnie Walters
(British artist, b.1875)
Adams, Arthur Christopher, Mrs., (Minnie Walters)
10. Armfield, Diana M.
(British artist, 1920-)
Dunstan, Bernard, Mrs., (Diana M.)
11. Attwell, Mabel Lucie
(British illustrator, author, 1879-1964)
Earnshaw, Harold C., Mrs., (Mabel Lucie)
12. Austen, Winifred
(British painter, act. 1899-1903)
Frick, Oliver, Mrs., (Winifred Marie Louise)
13. Ayres, Gillian
(British painter, b.1930)
Mundy, Henry, Mrs., (Gillian)
14. Barber, Henry, Mrs.
(British, d.1933)
15. Barnard, K.
(British artist, op.circa 1921-)
Locking, Mrs.
16. Barney, Alice Pike
(American painter, playwright, patron, ca.1857-1931)
Barney, Alice (Mrs. Clifford Barney)
17. Bartholomew or Turnbull, Anne Charlotte, nee Fayerman
(British artist, 1800-1862)
Turnbull, Walter, Mrs.
18. Barton, G.A., Mrs.
(British photographer, 20th c.)
19. Beale, Mary
(English painter, 1632-1699)
Mrs. Beale
20. Beaumont, Anne (Anne Pierce)
(British artist, op.1820-1833)
Pierce, W., Mrs., (Anne)
21. Beetham, Miss J.
(British artist, op.1794)
Read, John, Mrs., (Jane)
22. Behn, Mrs. [Unidentified]
(Unknown painter)
Mrs. Behn
23. Bell, Laura Anning
(British artist, 1867-1950)
Richard-Troncy, Laura Anning, Mrs.
24. Benwell, Mary
(British painter, act. 1761-1791)
Code, Mary, Mrs.
25. Berners, Miss (Mrs. Jarratt)
(British artist, 18th cent.)
Jarratt, Mrs.
26. Bingham, Harry Payne, Mrs.
(American, 20th c.)
27. Bishop, Isabel
(American painter, printmaker, 1902-1988)
Wolff, Isabel B., Mrs.
28. Blackadder, Elizabeth V.
(British painter, b.1931)
Houston, John, Mrs., (Elizabeth)
29. Blackburn, Mrs. Hugh, (nee J. Wedderburn)
(British artist, op.1863-1875)
30. Blatherwick, Lily
(British artist, 1854-1934)
Hartrick, Archibald Standish, Mrs., (Lily)
31. Blunden, Anna E.
(British artist, 1830-1915)
Martino, Francis Richard, Mrs., (Anna E.)
32. Boreel, Wendela
(British artist, b.1895)
Wylde, Wendela, Mrs.
33. Bouguereau, Elizabeth Jane Gardner
(American painter in FRA, 1837-1922)
Bouguereau, Adolphe William, Mrs., (Elizabeth Jane Gardner)
34. Boulton, Janet
(British artist, op.20th c.)
MacKenzie, Janet, Mrs.
35. Bowers, Georgina
(British artist, 1836-1912)
Bowers-Edwards, Georgina, Mrs.
36. Bowkett, Jane Maria (Jane Maria Stuart)
(British artist, op.1860-1885)
Stuart, Charles, Mrs., (Jane Maria)
37. Bristowe, Mrs. S.
(British artist, 19th cent.)
38. Brockman, Cornelia
(British artist, op.1831-circa 1870)
Solly, Isaac, Mrs., (Cornelia)
39. Bronte, Charlotte
(British artist, 1816-1855)
Nicholls, A.B., Mrs., (Charlotte)
40. Brooks, Marjorie
(British artist, b.1904)
Holford, W.G., Mrs., (Margorie)
41. Brown, Denise Lebreton
(British artist, 1911-op.1940)
Waters, Denise, Mrs.
42. Brown, Sonia F.
(American sculptor (b. Russia), b.1890)
Brown, Mrs. Gordon
43. Browning, Amy Katherine
(British artist, 1882-)
Dugdale, Thomas Cantrell, Mrs., (Amy Katherine)
44. Brownlow, Emma (King)
(British artist, op.1852-1869)
King, Emma B., Mrs.
45. Brunton, Violet E.
(British artist, 1878-1951)
Angless, Violet E., Mrs.
46. Burrell, Louise A.
(British artist, 1873-1971)
Luker, Louise A., Mrs.
47. Callcott, Maria
(British painter, author, 1785-1842)
Graham, Maria, Mrs.
48. Cameron, Katharine
(British artist, 1874-1965)
Kay, Arthur, Mrs., (Katherine)
49. Cameron, Mary (Mrs. Alexis Millar)
(British artist, -1921)
Millar, Alexis, Mrs., (Mary)
50. Campbell, Cecilia
(British artist, op.1820)
Nairn, George, Mrs., (Cecilia Margaret)
Women may not be in the art books but they have been producing good art.
Steven
StudentNow College Life
http://www.studentnow.com/
In article <36685b32...@news.mindspring.com>,
sbr...@niner.uncc.edu (Sharel) wrote:
>
>
> Hello Everyone!
>
> I am an art student who has put together a short poll for my Women in
> Art class. If you have a free moment, I'd be grateful for your
> replies.
>
> 1. List as many women artists as you can think of.
>
> 2. Do we still need classes like Women in Art or are they becoming
> obsolete?
>
> You can post a reply or email me at foma...@excite.com.
>
> Thanks
> Sharel Brown
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Karin Wells
Karin Wells is a classical oil portrait artist who lives in Peterborough, New
Hampshire. Please visit her web site at:
http://www.portraitartist.com/wells
artist@toon
Marilyn wrote in message <36781067.3210@not_a_real_address.ca>...
>Kerry Keane wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Marilyn wrote:
>>
>> > Kerry Keane wrote:
>> > >
>> > > not yet had that crucial seventh cup of coffee.
>> > >
>> > > -Kerry
>> > > (posting from rec.arts.fine and NOT alt.fem :P !
>> >
>> >
>> > is decided in utero, where society's consruction has not yet much
>> > influence. There is gender and then there is sexuality.
>>
>> I am a woman, but I might choose to dress and act
>> in a manner associated with men. In doing this,
>> I'm adopting the gender identity of a man. Check the
>> writings of gender-benders like Kate Bornstein if you
>> don't believe me.
>>
>>
>> with such dreary matters as identity.
>
>In art,
>We use everything we have and everything we are.
>Have it your way,
>let's say there is biology/physiology in the beginning of life
>and then there are social constructs.
>
>M.
As a painter, you paint for yourself first, no one else.
You paint because you love it, live it and definitely
feel passionate about it. You paint what you see which is
influenced by adrenaline and emotions inside. What you are
left with, is a painted vision, a view through the artists eyes.
Everyone see's things differently, whether you are male
or female, sane or insane. Art is art, it doesn't need to be
broken down into categories. It's there to be enjoyed. If you
don't like a painting, so what, someone else might. If you
brake things down to far you lose sight of what was originally
there.Splitting artists into two groups, male and female is like
saying one of the groups can't compete on equal terms with
the other. Art is not a sport (and if it was, the BBC would
lose the right to show it!!)and we don't need league tables to
enjoy it..
We only have one life, one world and it can
provide us with all we need.
There is only one time to be happy, the time is now
the place is here, and the way to be happy,
is to make others so...
artist@toon