Federal Duck Stamp?
David and Melissa Tyson
I'm just wondering if anyone on here ever enters,or has entered the duck
stamp competition? I paint a lot of wildlife and was wondering what other
artist think about this contest?
Dave
Larry Seiler
<7ltk20$rk4$1...@news.ipa.net>...
yup.....done it....will do it again.
I've entered 33 times in state and national competitions....winning last
year's Wisconsin Trout Stamp design....and winding up a finalist in quite a
few of them.
Never a finalist in the Federal yet though.
Doing mostly landscape painting currently...but will be entering a number
of stamps for this fall. Possibly the Federal. Heh....chances are better
than the lottery since it requires only developing some talent right?
I'll say this about such competitions.....
it is good to see the entrees and know what you're up against. It is good
to be totally humiliated when you think your work is good...wishing to
rather just grab your entree and crawl out the door unseen. That alone
causes one to commit themselves to greater studies of anatomy, the subject
and background, techniques of medium, etc; To realize if the average hours
put into an entree were to be 50 hours.....you'll do twice that!
In all honesty....I don't think I would have had a sense of a standard for
excellence that would have pushed me had it not been for competitions. Any
questions, feel free to ask. I've been doing it for a number of years.
Though you'll have to ask the Hautman brothers for the real inside
stuff.....!!! <grin>
--
Larry Seiler
artist's site- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
WetCanvas Artists page- (shorter and quicker loading)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Gallery/S/Larry_Seiler/index.html
ACT ministry home page-
http://netministries.org/see/charmin.exe/CM00117
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw
Erik A. Mattila
One thing I would add, in the area of incentive. A friend of mine was
interested in entering the Federal Duck Stamp competition. The incentive was
the winner can publish a print of the winning painting and it is virtually
gruaranteed that every chapter of organizations such as Ducks Unlimited will
purchase. It's pretty well set up ahead of time - the publisher will contact
you and offer the contract and viola, a lot of money comes your way. There
have been some unknown artists catipulted to 'fame' (I use the term carefully)
overnight by wining this competition.
But you know, Larry, I was really distressed to read your posts about the
market falling off for wildlife art. Do you think this is just temporary, or
is the 'golden age' completely over?
But landscape painting certainly has to be a permanent part of the market -
very enduring. When I first moved down here to the desert in SoCal I was very
surprised to watch a PBS program form San Diego about the art history of San
Diego landscape painting (which includes the desert here). Some very
wonderful work done by some tremendous painters. It's very exciting to me to
see any of the several regional 'schools' promoted and revitalized. Art
History is full of surprises.
Erik Mattila
Jewel
>yup.....done it....will do it again.
>I've entered 33 times in state and national competitions....winning last
>year's Wisconsin Trout Stamp design....and winding up a finalist in quite a
>few of them.
>Never a finalist in the Federal yet though.
Somewhere in my distant past I met someone who HAD won
the Federal Duck Stamp competition and it was only the
beginning of a VERY lucrative period for him. It was
while living in the NW, but I can't for the life of me
remember his name. And I wonder how many of the winners
of these contests ever go on to any further fame?
But I have another question. I know an artist who does
exquisite birds -- ducks being where he began since he
started doing 'decoys.' His woodworking is phenomenal,
with detailing of feathers and such so lifelike you
think the bird has been preserved by a taxidermist.
His works were selling for thousands of dollars US many
years ago when I knew him.
My question: Does a 3-D artist have a chance in the
Federal contest?
Larry Seiler
> interested in entering the Federal Duck Stamp competition. The incentive
was
> the winner can publish a print of the winning painting and it is
virtually
> gruaranteed that every chapter of organizations such as Ducks Unlimited
will
> purchase.
Hi Erik.....
well...I didn't get into that. Yes, it is an incentive. I guess my
apprehension would be to confess to making any art for such reasons here on
this group, which could bring fire and brimstone upon one's head....!
hahahaha....
Actually....a friend of mine won about 7 years ago and made nearly 2
million. It fluctuates each year from 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 million, and has to
do with marketing, etc; That about 600 artists compete for such a prize is
cause to grab one's boot laces and not enter unless he/she fully grasps
embracing whatever sacrifices it will require to produce a winning image.
That one chooses such will nearly guarantee that the artist will reach a
new level in their ability. Over 20 years of such enterings has a good
effect.
(for the sake of the original poster's inquisitiveness....assuming he's
reading along, I'll elaborate more)...
It really becomes a lifestyle, and one can order their life around the
calendar. Photo trips to flooded fields in spring....the marsh in fall. To
zoos or private bird sanctuaries. Whom one will ultimately associate with,
game managers and field specialists.....etc; entering one's own state
competitions...perhaps neighboring states, and the Fed. Paying attention
to trends in anatomic poses, advancements in printing processes that might
allow for the artist to go new directions, FOR the competitions require
awareness that certain pigments do not reproduce well when reduced for a
stamp. Again....it is a lifestyle choice. It teaches discipline.
My interests led to begin about a decade ago to also do woodcarving,
because so much attention to detail is required. Understand the weight or
burden of this, and you'll know something of why landscape painting is now
so much "fun" for me as an artist.
> It's pretty well set up ahead of time - the publisher will contact
> you and offer the contract and viola, a lot of money comes your way.
well....that used to be true for individual states as well. In the prime
of the era, an artist could expect in Wisconsin about $125,000 for the duck
stamp competition, and about $30,000 for the trout. Now however, one must
arrange to do their own printing and marketing as most galleries are not
really interested in carrying the prints. Certainly doesn't hurt to win
it.....and having the prints is only a burden for space, but they are nice
to have for shows and are a feather in the cap.
As the market grew less interested, many states ceased to make their
designs competition-oriented due to fear an "unknown" talent might win whom
had no existing public notorieity. Thus, they would commission an artist
with a number of past wins and proving market interest hoping prints would
have a greater promise to sell.
As of today....the only truly lucrative stamp competition left is the
Federal. Even that is showing some signs of losing interest when one sees
marketing adding medallion stamp series, limited edition plates, etc., to
tweek out each bit of existing potential money.
My attitude however is to pursue other interests yet not forget what I'm
capable of. I will continue to produce a couple stamps each year. If
anything, wins usually open doors or invitations to attend other shows, or
ultimately gives my other work a viewing for gallery consideration.
Winning the trout stamp competition oddly enough gave me opportunity to get
my landscape paintings into 4 more galleries.
> have been some unknown artists catipulted to 'fame' (I use the term
carefully)
> overnight by winning this competition.
Yes....with that comes some disillusionment which with hindsight builds
character I suppose. Thinking by virtue of winning that "you have
arrived!" "Resting upon your laurels" so to speak. Winning art
competitions has very much the same pressure as winning sport recognition.
People demand more of the same.
.....and you may find other competition wins just out of reach. Of 33
competitions I have entered thus far....I won two of them, and have been a
finalist 23 times, a runner-up hmmm, three or four times I think.
To breathe as an artist, I had to see it as illustration....though fine as
it is, to sort of give myself mental permisssion to exist as someone other
than this wildlife artist.
It is like being cast in a role in a movie....and the actor has to sorta
shake that image to get directors to cast him in other movie roles.
For some strange reason....people really don't equate an image with an
artist's ability so much as that artist's knowledge. For example....if I
paint a sporting portraits of guys/gals with great trophy bass, walleye, or
a trout, they won't be able to connect that I could probably do a guy/gal
in a golf pose having just finished a swing and holding a follow-thru. You
have to paint nearly one of each so that the light comes on in their head!
Ssheesh.....that has often bothered me.
> But you know, Larry, I was really distressed to read your posts about the
> market falling off for wildlife art.
Hah.....think you're distressed! Think of working to become somebody via
route of competition and prowess among your peers only to find such
disinterest.
Actually though....I think it helped many artists, subject matter and
patrons that this disinterest came. People needed to question there being
more reason to acquire art than some idea of collectible investment. Many
artists did just get into this groove of producing and cranking 'em
out....while a few of us wanting to respond more as artists and bring our
unique vision of our unique experiences encountering wildlife.
The collectibility and investment factor did actually work and exist as a
real thing WHILE the supply and demand existed. When that waned, it
brought some disillusionment to some. Others however went on to realize
they did buy some images of art that brought them enjoyment, and went about
looking at other art subjects and styles.
Whatever people here think of wildlife art....it did enculturate a
generation of people to believe buying and investing their money and
interest in art as a worthwhile thing.
> Do you think this is just temporary, or
> is the 'golden age' completely over?
That is a real tough thing to understand. I think there will always be a
market for excellence....but I think the fervor of buying spontaneously
with the idea of investing in an artist that is going to "make it big time"
thus bringing additional value to their purchase is gone.
I think also...that what wildlife art comes in the next decade will be made
by immature artists whom haven't yet realized this slacking off.....or by
top notch artists whom will begin to look at the worth of their work AS
artists inspite of the sales having and continuing to slip off. Such
artists may bring unique knowledge about wildlife to us.
Let me give you an example. I was photographing in a flooded pea field in
spring, hhmm about 1981.....shooting slide film. Sneaking up on various
species of waterfowl. I heard a quick rushing of wind over head in time to
see about 16 Green Winged Teal (the smallest of the puddle ducks) whisk by
in erratic flight.
They then turned into the wind to come of me broadside, and I put my camera
on continuous mode to shoot them non-stop as they passed by.
Several days later with the developed slides cast up upon my wall, I
realized what the naked eye had not detected. Of the 16 teal, seven drakes
were flying or upside down rather.....with locked wings. Evidently a
spring courtship ritual.
I freaked! Called my wife into the room. For us...a very special moment.
A whispered secret beyond most existing knowledge.
My art rep however....was absolutely emphatic about my NOT painting it.
That while I might have such knowledge, much of the public...especially
sportsmen, whom like to boast of what they "think" they know would find
such a painting an outrage and cause for much ridicule and laughter.
That was really difficult for me. The idea that on one hand we were
reporters of nature....yet, had to wear a straight jacket of limitation to
yield to supply and demand and produce WHAT the public thought they were
experts in and wanted.
I've been so sooooo close to whitetail bucks, and charged three different
times, yet some hunters that see a whisk or blur of a tail while leaning
against a tree will stand in front of an artist's deer painting and say, "
dat der deer just don't look right... something with the head!"
Well...there are some bad painters of deer without question, but many deer
are like human beings and look different and have different personalities.
I got so I could go to almost any given area of large country forests and
know where an 8 pointer would be about this time.....and the 11 point
untypical would be. You could watch their eyes...their tail movements, and
learn to anticipate what they were about to be up to.
oh well......
So....while the market has and is dying.....similar to a grain of wheat
which dies and falls off into the soil, new life is promised.
Now....artists can take their developed talents and with a bit of courage
share experiences. I mean...if the public isn't going to buy the
work....they may as well NOT buy the work they've been wanting to do right?
Unfortuately though (or fortunate)....one doesn't just pick up a brush one
day and decide to be a wildlife artist. Not a good one anyway. One must
study nature....plant life so that a red pine cone isn't portrayed under a
white pine tree which eliminated one artist I competed against one year.
One must know anatomy, habits in the wild...or rituals, seasons. A
botanist, biologist, field specialist.....and artist.
Then....learning to render well, pull the whole of a picture together to
possess color harmony and good design. These are lifelong developments.
I think though that some artists have grown accustomed to the money and
will follow it so long as their talents allow it. I know many artists that
like myself are painting plein air landscapes currently.
As such.....if a genre fails to promise gain through which the market might
bear, then the driving force that an artist holds tumultuously to through
difficult times is not likely to come into existence. As such...Erik, we
may have seen or are seeing the end of an area. Not the end of those that
depict wildlife...but as an era.
I have a theory as to how the patron (without serious aesthetic
development) tends to think of and buy art. Take whatever has been held
dear to past generations in their family....and as the future threatens not
only its existence but is "dear" memory...art and prints of such will find
a market.
Wildlife was endangered...artists found a market. Monies raised in
conservation efforts and government laws lessened the fear of "loss" and
interest in the art waned.
The family farm is threatened....bankruptcies, etc., and for about 6-8
years we saw a flood of farm paintings, old John Deere tractors, etc;
The family itself as being understood traditionally threatened with broken
homes and redefinition, and we see paintings/prints of mothers with their
children reading books, at the piano, dangling their feet in water while
fishing....etc;
So.....anticipate what is about to be lost or "feared" to be lost.....and
begin to develop one's prowess in such, and start painting! <smile>
> But landscape painting certainly has to be a permanent part of the market
-
> very enduring.
historically it has been so.....and again, perhaps now is more with the
existing landscape threaten by industry and developments.
It also represents for the buyer an image of a place they would rather be
than at work or enduring their anxiety.
It scares me though. I love painting landscapes right now...and if the
trend is a vogue thing- then my window of opportunity exists financially as
this trend continues to exist. I am not living in an area that has a
conducive market though we have awesome scenery. Again.....I will find
myself riding the coattails of what was I fear.
> When I first moved down here to the desert in SoCal I was very
> surprised to watch a PBS program form San Diego about the art history of
San
> Diego landscape painting (which includes the desert here). Some very
> wonderful work done by some tremendous painters. It's very exciting to
me to
> see any of the several regional 'schools' promoted and revitalized. Art
> History is full of surprises.
There is a very BIG deal being made about California
Impressionists.....and, just like people jumped on the wildlife art
bandwagon, you have many artist moving to California to change residency
and say they are a California landscape painter.
Don't think I didn't have a passing thought myself, especially with my
mother living out there.
My problem is....I'm somewhat "spiritually" connected to this region.
I love the mountains.....but after several weeks I miss the smell of damp
soil, deciduous trees, varieties of pines, and many bodies of fresh water
lakes. Many trickles of waterfalls, streams and rocks.
The sand is intriguing as are rocks and cliffs....especially the play of
the sun as it lowers in the sky. Hopefully, for the sake of my poor wife,
I find myself to be in a right place and at a right time knowing what I
know....doing what I'm capable of doing. Meanwhile....."did you want
everything on that burger sir?"
<g>
peace,
Larry
Larry Seiler
> And I wonder how many of the winners
> of these contests ever go on to any further fame?
well....earning the title and making 1-2 million can't hurt! It has been
crazy as far as I'm concern with the notoriety my little trout stamp win
has brought. Such money and attention lends to numerous marketing
opportunities regardless.
I'll tell you what hurts though....winning something that is perceived as
prestigious as a state or national stamp competition can also minimize or
work against opportunities. For example, I love teaching and working with
kids...but administrators look at my resume and basically tell me that
their not hiring me is a favor of sorts, and that I couldn't possibly be
happy doing less than what my talent has demonstrated. They work with kids
daily, yet perceive educating teens is for lesser talented people that have
less going for them evidently! So much for excellence in education!
> But I have another question. I know an artist who does
> exquisite birds -- ducks being where he began since he
> started doing 'decoys.'
Also right up my alley, I've done a number of competition carvings of such,
sold bird carvings....but really took off with my fresh water fish. I
swapped a carving of a largemouth bass about to take a Texas worm-rigged
worm (all carved) with a marine boat dealer for a Lund boat, motor and
trailer.
> His woodworking is phenomenal,
> with detailing of feathers and such so lifelike you
> think the bird has been preserved by a taxidermist.
actually...speaking as a woodcarver I'll argue that if he is as good as you
say he is, no doubt the work looks more lifelike and better than a
taxidermist! For example, I can carve fins that appear as though the
current of water was moving over them whereas a taxidermist simply takes a
rigid acetate and glues them to the back of existing dried out fins. Birds
can be carved with feather groups raised that taxidermists simply cannot
do, etc;
> His works were selling for thousands of dollars US many
> years ago when I knew him.
A nationally competitive winning carver can do quite well. I've not worked
up to that level, though I believe I have the stuff....but, I'm also not
financially independent. What I mean is...it takes 300-400 hours to do ONE
piece well....and it takes doing many pieces to arrive at the level to
compete against peers. You start at a novice level, go to intermediate,
and then professional in competitions. You have to win so many ribbons at
each level to advance.
As the interest in wildlife art has wanned however, few and far between are
the buyers that can make the sacrifice of time affordable for the artist.
I know a falconer out west that carves predator birds. He does falconry in
the morning...and carves in the afternoon, and gets about $15,000 for each
of his birds.
To survive carving, many must do resin castings of work.....similar to
prints.
> My question: Does a 3-D artist have a chance in the
> Federal contest?
well....let's face it. Arguments about what is art, what is good which
many like to engage in here have little relevance in such competitions.
The level of knowledge required by the artist to best 600 other entrees is
nothing to mock or ignore.
I have numerous videos, each of just one particular species of waterfowl,
and sit frequently watching a drake and hen swim around...hours at a time.
Sketching. Studying characteristics, movements. I've spent time in
flooding fields photographing. I spent about 17 years hunting waterfowl
before moving to the west side of Wisconsin....out in the bay of Green Bay.
As an artist one is removed from the "kill" instinct and fosters a
sportsmen's attitude. I've watched nearly 28 species in flight. Have
broken 20 yards of ice along shores to paddle out into deadly frigid
waters.
In other words....it is a lifestyle.
That may invite more originality or insights in my work, still....there are
artists that come from a bigger city environment with an illustration
background that have done quite well. If you have the money, you can
afford the resources to replace what came for me by experience. I'll risk
saying however, that I can sort of detect a static sense to the image
though.
Some artists I know have gone so far as to build their own personal aviary
with perhaps a half-dozen or more pairs of varying duck species
swimming....right in their own backyard.
Some literally photograph a gazillion slides to capture just the right pose
or personality they wish to project.
Its not enough to "copy" an image....because these competitions have
specialists that attempt to eliminate artists by counting feathers and
feather groups.
Many of us artists have wearied of that and complained that it isn't looked
at from a more artistic perspective, but many of the judges are not
artists. They usually have one artist on the judging panel to be a
resource and have aesthetic input, and a print/publisher to explain how
colors and contrast values will reproduce smaller.
At any rate.....the knowledge a carver develops for attention to detail is
idea.
I've seen many great carvers however, completely destroy their competitive
chances in national competitions because their knowledge of painting was
nowhere near their capability for carving.
A painter, however....that has experience carving greatly increases his/her
chances indeed.
The federal stamp competition is a bit different than states in that they
employ the services of an "engraver" . With that being said, one would
think that attention to detail and color would not be as demanding. There
is a very big and noticeable difference between the winning original and
the stamp that sportsmen will purchase.
However, the prints will reflect the original. Engraving is seen as an art
form in and of itself, and they like the look as being more traditional for
the stamps.
The competition is fierce. It is grueling. Yet funny things happen.
My friend had gone through some very difficult times which brought upon him
a depression that he could not shake. He did not do art work for about six
months.
His wife trying to snap him out of his emotional/mental state got him to
work on an entree for the Federal duck stamp. He finished it and showed it
to several friends whom didn't exactly like the piece.
Several days before the entree due date....he re-did an entree, the piece
still somewhat tacky when he matted it and mailed it in. This is the piece
that won, redheads heading into a strong wind over a lake with reeds.
So....who knows?
Now..carvers don't very frequently carve waterfowl flying.....but usually
standing, or swimming. Many of these stamp competitions like action, and
often alternate years. That is....if a standing or swimming pair of ducks
won one year, they won't the next more than likely.
Hope I have helped. All this talk reminds me I'd better get on my entree
pieces!
take care....
Larry
Jewel
>That may invite more originality or insights in my work, still....there are
>artists that come from a bigger city environment with an illustration
>background that have done quite well. If you have the money, you can
>afford the resources to replace what came for me by experience. I'll risk
>saying however, that I can sort of detect a static sense to the image
>though.
I don't think there is any substitute for intimate
knowledge of your subject, be it waterfowl, large
animals, people or pine trees.
I once was acquainted with a young painter who
had spent her life around horses. She could paint
horses from memory. There is an 'apaloosa club' that
had many patrons buying her paintings of that breed.
Then she tried doing wildlife that she had a passing
knowledge of. Whereas her horses are full of life in
her paintings, even when standing still, the
wildlife imagery is very 'standard' 'passe' or whatever the
proper terminology is.
I studied the life of a sculptor (long deceased) who did some
wonderful monuments containing rearing, running, or
standing horses. He bought several horses in the course
of studying them for the life-size sculptures, which still
stand in different parts of the USA today. His horse
monument in Kentucky won rave reviews from horsemen in
that horsey part of the USA.