watercolor paper buckling
the_...@yahoo.com
the french Arches.
It has been buckling when I put washes on it.
140 lb paper is not supposed to buckle or warp.
Even after I have stretched it, it has still buckled.
I have tried wet-on-wet, wet-on-damp, and wet-on-dry washes.
Is 140 lb paper supposed to lay realtively flat for sale to customers?
does anyone have the solution to this?
sarp
Dan Druff
the_...@yahoo.com says...
>140 lb paper is not supposed to buckle or warp.
Where in the world did you get THAT idea from?
The only paper weight that doesn't buckle 'too much'
is the 300lb or heavier. Anything lighter weight will buckle,
depending on how much it's wetted. You can buy
the bound blocks of paper that doesn't buckle as
badly - until after you cut it loose from the block.
But the best solution is to stretch it before you
begin painting - and that means soaking it fully
submerged in water for a minimum of 15 minutes.
It helps to gently rub it while it's under water
to break down the size. Once it's fully soaked,
it needs to be secured all the way around each
edge to a rigid backing board and allowed to dry.
If properly anchored, it will stretch as it
dries and you'll likely never get it as wet again
as it was when it was fully saturated - that is
what keeps if from buckling after it's stretched.
the_...@yahoo.com
>
> The only paper weight that doesn't buckle 'too much'
> is the 300lb or heavier. Anything lighter weight will buckle,
> depending on how much it's wetted. You can buy
> the bound blocks of paper that doesn't buckle as
> badly - until after you cut it loose from the block.
> But the best solution is to stretch it before you
> begin painting - and that means soaking it fully
> submerged in water for a minimum of 15 minutes.
> It helps to gently rub it while it's under water
> to break down the size. Once it's fully soaked,
> it needs to be secured all the way around each
> edge to a rigid backing board and allowed to dry.
> If properly anchored, it will stretch as it
> dries and you'll likely never get it as wet again
> as it was when it was fully saturated - that is
> what keeps if from buckling after it's stretched.
I am doing wash experiments now with 140 lb Arches HP in a block
The first sheet buckled as soon as I laid a wash onto it WHILE it was
still in the block.
I assume you advice is about how to keep 140 lb from buckling, not 300
lb.
I took the second sheet off the block and thoroughly wetted it,
although I did not soak it as much as you seem to be saying.
After it had dried, I stapled it to a plywood board.
It still buckled when I applied washes.
I will try your method,
he information I had was from books,
I am getting the impression that 140 lb is just not professional
quality, at least not Arches. I cannot imagine a customer buying a
warped watercolor, even if I managed to paint it.
sarp
Dan Druff
the_...@yahoo.com says...
>I will try your method,
It's NOT "my method" - here is a web site that
tells how to do it different ways.
http://www.watercolorpainting.com/stretchingpaper.htm
>he information I had was from books,
I can't believe any book worth it's price would
say that 140lb paper won't buckle. There are literally
hundreds of books available on the subject of watercoloring.
>I am getting the impression that 140 lb is just not professional
>quality, at least not Arches.
Arches is one of the oldest brand names on the market.
Paper is paper - most quality watercolor paper is
made the same way, regardless of brand name.
Sharon Barcone
"Dan Druff" <bug...@dontemailme.com> wrote in message
news:81549$45c0a626$48102ef8$78...@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> I can't believe any book worth it's price would
> say that 140lb paper won't buckle. There are literally
> hundreds of books available on the subject of watercoloring.
>
buckle. Blocks are pads of watercolor paper that are bound on all four
sides. As non blocked watercolor paper should be secured while still wet the
idea of a wet block is that it was already secured on all sides. I haven't
tried block pads yet but have always had my doubts. Anyone else have
experience with them?
sharon
Dan Druff
sha...@usadatanet.net says...
>Actually 140lb. watercolor paper sold in blocks does state that it won't
>buckle.
Well, that would be false advertising IMO.
Certainly the blocks
are less prone to buckling than are loose
sheets of paper, and that's why they're made
in the first place. But they're not foolproof.
What happens with the blocks is that they
will swell and bow depending on how much
water is used. In order to be sure the paper
doesn't STAY bowed, it's important to NOT
cut the paper loose from it's binding until
it has dried out again. As it dries, it will
lie down flat again as it shrinks/stretches.
the_...@yahoo.com
> I can't believe any book worth it's price would
> say that 140lb paper won't buckle. There are literally
> hundreds of books available on the subject of watercoloring.
1. "Watercolor papers of 300 gsm / 140 lb and heavier papers do not
require stretching."
--- source: Practical Watercolor Painting, by Gerald Woods, p. 29.
2. "Light papers may need stretching to prevent them buckling under
heavy washes. Heavier papers, of 140lb and upwards, can be clipped to
a board and used for direct work."
---- source: Introduction to Painting with Watercolour, edited by
Sarah Buckley, p. 8.
3. "Some painters prefer thick 300- and 400-pound paper because it
won't wrinkle as they paint. But this minor handicap is overcome by
stretching the paper.... Wrinkling is a problem with 75-pound
paper....
"As an alternative to stretching, some watercolorists either clamp
the paper as they paint, or ignore the wrinkling altogether. If you
can ignore the slight wrinkling that may occur as you paint, you'll
find it makes no difference, and the sheet will revert to a perfectly
flat condition as is dries [I AM NOT FINDING THIS TO BE THE CASE].
"In any case a completed painting can be placed in your framer's
dry mount iron... for two minutes, and it'll be as flat as with was
when it came out of the quire."
--- source: Basic Watercolor Techniques, by Greg Albert and Rachel
Wolf, pp. 4-5.
sarp
Dan Druff
the_...@yahoo.com says...
>1. "Watercolor papers of 300 gsm / 140 lb and heavier papers do not
>require stretching."
>--- source: Practical Watercolor Painting, by Gerald Woods, p. 29.
Ahem.... I seem to recall that you began this thread
by complaining that your 140lb paper did indeed buckle!
I responded with what I know from having spent over
forty years in the "world of arts" both creating and
teaching others to create.
So if you wish to argue the point, I suggest you
either email or write directly to the author of
the books and ask them why the "excellent choice
of paper" you've made doesn't behave as they
claim it should. I referred you the the Dick Blick
web site because that happens to be one of the
largest art supply companies in the USA and I
assumed you'd gain some knowledge by reading what
they have to say about watercolor papers. If you
simply want to argue for the sake of argument,
I'm not interested and am done with this thread.
the_...@yahoo.com
> I'm not interested and am done with this thread.
I am pleased you have said this.
And I would ask you to remember my handle, and not to respond to any
posts I make in the future, preferably not even on any threads I
initiate.
(I mean it.)
sarp
N
Back on topic....
Have you tried sizing the paper at all?
http://www.trueart.info/sizing.htm
If you saturate the paper for long enough, roll it up and submerge
it into a sink perhaps, then use a wide gumstrip all around the edge
to stick it to your board it should dry evenly....If you're still
having
problems with he paper warping, size it. As the gelatin solidifies
faster than water evaporates I suppose you can try out sizing with
out stretching your paper first. (we used to do this to old rag print
stock that needed handcolouring)
I hope this works, :)
N.
the_...@yahoo.com
last time I tried soaking it over 30 minutes and the paper still had
snap to it when I tested the corners. It never came close to the
overcooked noodle stage.
One sheet that I soaked for 15 minutes still had a slight inward bow
to it.
I guess this is just the way watercolor is.
the test I am working on now (for gradated washes) i have soaked for
over 30 minutes.
sarp