Need help with oil painting on masonite
CGreen3331
I have not had much experience with oil painting on masonite. I have read
a couple of books on this topic but they have conflicting methods. Is it
true that I will need to coat the board with glue sizing before and after
the coatings of acrylic gesso primer to keep it from rotting from the oil
paint?
I have already applied the gesso primer to the board without the glue
sizing but I have not started painting yet. Is there any way to save the
board at this stage if the glue sizing is needed?
Please give me your opinions on this matter.
Thanks,
Patricia
Barbie Kew
In article <4m8q6u$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, cgree...@aol.com says...
> Is it
>true that I will need to coat the board with glue sizing before and after
>the coatings of acrylic gesso primer to keep it from rotting from the oil
>paint?
NOT TRUE and WRONG besides! Considering the AOLer source of this
question, its oddness is understandable. Try your library for HOW TO
books on the subject, and follow the advice contained in them for using
Masonite panels (and imitation Masonite).
--
888888888888888888
Barbie Kew I am NOT E-mailable.
Smoke'n 'em.
888888888888888888
Tom Norulak
I have produced screen printed signs on masonite from time to time using
enamel inks and used the alcohol based primer to seal the boards.
Tom
--
Tom Norulak Accordion; Folk Music; Screen Printing;
nor...@telerama.lm.com Printmaking; Fine Arts
http://www.lm.com/~norulak
"When you get to the fork in the road, take it." --Yogi Berra
CGreen3331
> NOT TRUE and WRONG besides! Considering the AOLer source of this
> question, its oddness is understandable. Try your library for HOW TO
> books on the subject, and follow the advice contained in them for using
> Masonite panels (and imitation Masonite).
> --
> 888888888888888888
> Barbie Kew I am NOT E-mailable.
> Smoke'n 'em.
> 888888888888888888
Let's take a look at this message. I asked a question (perfectly
reasonable being that newsgroups are used to share information) about
masonite and I said that I have READ a couple of books (sorry I just
didn't make it to the HOW TO section of the art books in Barne's and
Noble) and that the information I received was CONFLICTING about this
topic.
So your answer was 'NOT TRUE and WRONG besides!' Would you like to expand
upon this? It wasn't quite the answer I was hoping for.
Your next line ,'Considering the AOLer source of this question, its
oddness is understandable.' gave me great insight into the kind of person
you are. Would you like to know what kind of person I think you are?
But the last line was the best: 'Try your library for HOW TO books on the
subject, and follow the advice contained in them for using Masonite panels
(and imitation Masonite).'. HELLO. Didn't I say I did look at the books
and they had conflicting methods. Maybe I just missed that ultimate HOW
TO book on oil painting on masonite.
I would like to apologize to this group for this message and thank
everyone who has given me information on my problem.
Patricia
Binky B
You might like to take a look at THE OIL PAINTING BOOK by Bill Creevy
(Watson-Guptill). I edited it, and Bill is very much in tune with
materials. If I weren't already over my AOL budget for this month, I'd
grab my personal copy off the shelf, look up what he says about Masonite,
and type the info here. I believe he adequately addresses how to prepare
it for oil work; one thing he might not have mentioned that another
artist-friend of mine did was that, as a support, it can get awfully heavy
if you like to work big, and for that reason galleries don't especially
like it. Let me know how you fare.
Barbie Kew
In article <4mh5ed$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, cgree...@aol.com says...
> HELLO. Didn't I say I did look at the books
>and they had conflicting methods. Maybe I just missed that ultimate HOW
>TO book on oil painting on masonite.
Actually, what you said originally only suggests that if you DO know
how to read, and read any book that tells you HOW TO PAINT WITH OILS,
it will most likely mention painting SUPPORTS. That's common terminology
for what it is you paint ON. Apparently, you either don't comprehend what
you read, or you have NOT actually READ any books on HOW TO.
YOU SAID:
(( I have not had much experience with oil painting on masonite. I have read
a couple of books on this topic but they have conflicting methods. Is it
true that I will need to coat the board with glue sizing before and after
the coatings of acrylic gesso primer to keep it from rotting from the oil
paint? ))
Now, what you DON'T say is where you got the notion that you need to
coat the board with a glue sizing either before or after using acrylic
gesso primer. Glue sizing and acrylic gesso primer being incompatible,
I can't imagine that you got this idea from reading ANY BOOK on the
subject. I suspect you quickly thumbed several books, saw various
terms and techniques, and confused them with one another because
you did NOT take the time to actually read and comprehend. Having
taught adolescents for many years, I know how they think and what
they do -- ie: never have time for the nitty gritty -- only want instant
gratification -- and if can't have it without doing the ground work,
want someone else to do it for them.
That is how your question came across to me -- adolescently.
You went on to say:
(( I have already applied the gesso primer to the board without the glue
sizing but I have not started painting yet. Is there any way to save the
board at this stage if the glue sizing is needed? ))
(( Please give me your opinions on this matter. ))
Since I had already taken the time to read your ill-posed question,
I took a little more of MY time to give an opinion. That you don't like my
response only confirms that you are one who wants someone else
to do the research for you, regardless of whether or not you are an
adolescent.
--
888888888888888888
Barbie Kew
Smoke'n 'em.
888888888888888888
Joe Kazimierczyk
CGreen3331 wrote:
>
> I have not had much experience with oil painting on masonite. I have read
> a couple of books on this topic but they have conflicting methods. Is it
> true that I will need to coat the board with glue sizing before and after
> the coatings of acrylic gesso primer to keep it from rotting from the oil
> paint?
>
> sizing but I have not started painting yet. Is there any way to save the
> board at this stage if the glue sizing is needed?
>
Patricia,
Oil on masonite is my favorite! Some advice:
- Buy untempered masonite. Tempered masonite has been treated with some
sort of oil or wax, so your primer will not adhere as well. Most stores
won't be able to tell you wether it's tempered or not, but a good test
is to see if water beads on the surface - if it does, it's tempered.
- Sand lightly before priming. Some say that as long as you sand, tempered
masonite works just as well as untempered.
- A few coats of acrylic primer should be all that you need. No sizing before
or after is necessary.
_________________
Joe Kazimierczyk
k...@bms.com
William Markiewicz
Bar...@smoke.com (Barbie Kew) wrote:
>In article <4mh5ed$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, cgree...@aol.com says...
>> HELLO. Didn't I say I did look at the books
>>and they had conflicting methods. Maybe I just missed that ultimate HOW
>>TO book on oil painting on masonite.
>Actually, what you said originally only suggests that if you DO know
>how to read, and read any book that tells you HOW TO PAINT WITH OILS,
>t( deleted..............................................................). I suspect you quickly thumbed several books, saw various
>terms and techniques, and confused them with one another because
>you did NOT take the time to actually read and comprehend. Having
>taught adolescents for many years, I know how they think and what
>they do -- ie: never have time for the nitty gritty -- only want instant
>gratification -- and if can't have it without doing the ground work,
>want someone else to do it for them.
>That is how your question came across to me -- adolescently.
>(...........................deleted..........) confirms that you are one who wants someone else
>to do the research for you, regardless of whether or not you are an
>adolescent.
>--
>888888888888888888
> Barbie Kew
> Smoke'n 'em.
>888888888888888888
I have not seen the entire thread but have seen enough quotes to
wonder about Barbie Kew's disdain for this question.
I see nothing wrong with asking a question without researching all the
books in the library. I would think that the newsgroup can embrace the
rank beginner and the experienced professional -- why would anyone
even communicate if they are going to be shot down for not "posing the
question" properly?
"NOT TRUE" "WRONG" -- AOL source of the question (quoting Barbie Kew)
-- I'd say these responses are uncalled for.
Nikole
Binky B
Hi, Joe,
You may trust me or not about your Masonite question, but in either case,
you might wish to thumb through a copy of THE OIL PAINTING BOOK by Bill
Creevy. He paints on wood a lot (I own one of his pix) and loves
hobnobbing with painting materials folks. I've been told by another artist
friend, though, that sometimes galleries don't like works painted on
Masonite because they weigh so much more than paintings done on canvas.
Good luck, in any event!
Helen Bakk
In article <4nuc27$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bin...@aol.com says...
> I've been told by another artist
>friend, though, that sometimes galleries don't like works painted on
>Masonite because they weigh so much more than paintings done on canvas.
Weight is usually not a concern until you get above the standard "sofa sizes."
I think the issue is more one of aesthetics with some unknowledgeable galleries
as it is with some unknowing collectors -- they think that an oil painting implies
a linen canvas support and anything less is a "cheap" substitute. In point of
fact, Masonite in its original patented form, is probably a BETTER support from
all "engineering" aspects than is canvas. Most of the oldest surviving examples
of painting from ancient times are on some form of rigid (board) support. I have
also advised before in these threads that artists should not overlook the value
of those hollow-core doors available at building supply stores as supports for
their paintings. The fine-grained surface of the un-finished outer wood surface
offers a great surface for priming and painting, and the doors are very light
weight for their size. the thickness adds an aesthetic touch that will allow a
gallery to hang without framing if tastefully finished around the edges. If a frame
is needed, one only has to trim the edges with other pieces of store-bought
molding tacked to the door. You can even gild, carve, or otherwise embellish
the "frame."
One caveat. You will notice I refer to Masonite -- a patented, proprietary material.
There are a lot of substitutes on the market nowadays, much of it coming in
from Canada ( no denigration intended ) that may or may NOT be as lasting and
waterproof as the Masonite brand. In fact, it has been a l-o-n-g time since I have
seen a piece of prestwood with Masonite labeling. Most of the prestwood I have
seen is un-labeled, telling nothing about its origins.
--
******************************************
From Her Holiness, Harpy of Hoopla.
Been there, done that, matters not.
~ Helen Bakk ~ I am NOT E-mailable.
*******************************************
andrew harmantas
Genuine untempered presswood from the genuine Masonite Corporation is a
superior product for painting. Untempered means there is little or no
glue, wax, binder, or sizing used in manufacturing. the stuff is
relatively intert, but not waterproof. When genuine untempred
Masonite is available, the difference from the other stuff is
readily apparent. The color is a light to medium brown, not
straw-colored, and a good test to be certain it is untempered is to try
and insert a thumbnail into one of the corners and see if the fibers tend
to separate easily. One surface is very smooth, while the back is
impressed with a fine screen pattern that should have no irregularities
or depressions.
Tempered Masonite is much darker in color. It looks "wet" by comparison
to untempered, because it is impregnated with a waxy size to make it
relatively water resistant. Some artists prefer the tempered variety,
sanding the surface first to receive a gesso ground or acrylic "gesso". .
I use any good presswood sheet, prefer untempered, with no surface
blemishes on either side. Most important, I glue 1 x 2 inch wood molding
on the back to brace the panel before beginning surface preparation.
These panels are most vulnerable to "dinging" or crushing the corners
when inadvertantly bumped or dropped. A well-braced panel does not
suffer from this and is relatively indestructable.
Lately, I have been preparing my panels and then gluing and tacking to
the wooden braces some Frederix Polyflax "canvas" material, which I then
paint on.
Can't speak to gallery preferences. Haven't been in touch with too many
galleries in the last few years. Certainly, the gallery wants to sell
paintings, and if a painting on stretched canvas is a major selling
point, then it seems one would be tilting at windmills to insist the
contrary--if gallery sales are a considration.
The hollow-core door surface might be a good choice, but I would be
concerned with the core, or the web of molded cardboard that is inside
the core to give it strength. If you've seen one of these doors with the
vaneer removed, you will see a honeycomb of either a foam or a paper
product, both of which may be loaded with acid, and that could spell
diaster in a few yours after your masterpiece is completed.
Helen Bakk
In article <4nv799$n...@news-tradoc.monroe.army.mil>, harm...@emh10.monroe.army.mil says...
>The hollow-core door surface might be a good choice, but I would be
>concerned with the core, or the web of molded cardboard that is inside
>the core to give it strength. If you've seen one of these doors with the
>vaneer removed, you will see a honeycomb of either a foam or a paper
>product, both of which may be loaded with acid, and that could spell
>diaster in a few yours after your masterpiece is completed.
The core of the door is isolated from the surface that will be painted on
by a thickness of plywood -- the decorative exterior surface of the door.
The unfinished door itself is probably highly acidic, since it is wood and
plywood at that. Plywood uses glues that are themselves not archival
and could outgas through the porous wood. So, that is why you use
a gesso primer -- to isolate the substrate from the medium you paint
with. On the other hand, I have never myself actually painted directly onto
plywood, preferring to use the stiffness of the wood as a backing for
stretched canvas. I HAVE, often, painted directly onto properly primed
(gessoed) Masonite. The yielding of canvas, when I work in large sizes,
is often bothersome to me. Using a stiff backing solves that problem.