A Question for all the new posters here...
Cliff D. Weller
I notice a sudden influx of new people to this
rec.arts.fine forum and I'm taking a poll to
find out why all of you suddenly chose to
visit here. I may know the answer, and will
reveal it after this thread runs its course,
assuming anyone bothers replying.
Murray Peterson
news:4082...@news.zianet.com:
> I notice a sudden influx of new people to this rec.arts.fine forum and
> I'm taking a poll to find out why all of you suddenly chose to visit
> here.
I have been lurking for over six months, so I don't know about anything
"sudden". As for why, I appreciate (and buy) art, and even dabble at
making some, so a group named rec.arts.fine would appear to be of interest.
> I may know the answer, and will reveal it after this thread runs its
> course, assuming anyone bothers replying.
Well, I gave you my reason(s), so you won't be revealing anything, at least
with respect to my own motivations.
cantueso
> I notice a sudden influx of new people to this
> rec.arts.fine forum and I'm taking a poll to
> find out why all of you suddenly chose to
> visit here.
I saw a message in the Objectivism philosophy forum asking people to
come over.
however, before I had been looking around for an art forum, and since
I did not know that in (US?) English this is called "fine arts", I
invariably ended up in strange places.
(now I'll stay here to see if these people can be taught some
manners.)
Cliff D. Weller
cant...@dieznet.com says...
>(now I'll stay here to see if these people can be taught some
>manners.)
Best of luck to you on that score. I hope your bull whip
is made from steel cable.
And thanks for the replies to my question. None of
the three so far seem to be a result of a post I
made to another forum naming this one, so I am
not as influential as I imagined. And that in itself
is a good thing, since I'd hate to bump Mani out of
top spot! (groan - not grin!)
Paul Mesken
Weller) wrote:
>And thanks for the replies to my question. None of
>the three so far seem to be a result of a post I
>made to another forum naming this one, so I am
>not as influential as I imagined.
Is this the post on WetCanvas stating r.a.f. is a place where you'll
find the "nastiest exchanges imaginable"? :-)
Anyway, the new posters are far too shy and awe strucken to state the
real reason for coming here : they're here in the hope to be taught by
me or merely to abide in my Presence of my Glorious Splendour ;-)
cantueso
> Best of luck to you on that score. I hope your bull whip
> is made from steel cable.
>
no whip
patience
don´t insist too much and as Churchill would have said remember priorities
Cliff D. Weller
says...
>Is this the post on WetCanvas stating r.a.f. is a place where you'll
>find the "nastiest exchanges imaginable"? :-)
Yeah. It's called 'trolling' in some situations,
or using 'reverse psych' in my example.
>they're here in the hope to be taught by
>me or merely to abide in my Presence of my Glorious Splendour ;-)
They could do a LOT worse! I just hope they
learn quickly to sort the "sweet" from the "chafe!"
Cliff D. Weller
>patience
As the greatest of all virtues, it's
virtually non-existent in this forum!
Mike Stengl
we're all here to finally see your madonna on roller skates painting
and to find out once and for all: 'what did you do with her hands?'
Paul Mesken
wrote:
Funny you should mention it. Just two days ago I made some new
preliminary sketches (I needed a break from the endless coding).
I changed the sun cap (or whatever it's called, it's such a visor like
thing) in a silver cowboy hat and her hands are simply placed on her
legs. One placed high up (the hip), on which she rests the weight of
her upper body (the shoulder turned up and towards the viewer), the
other simply resting midway her leg (her hand a bit like a claw, her
long nails pushing into her flesh, predator like).
The sun cap, being a transparent blue, was meant to mirror the
transparent blue wheels of her roller skates but it gave me a lot of
problems because the "camera angle" is so low, and she is looking down
at us (but with her head held high, giving her a pronounced chin, the
"contempt" look), that we see the bottom side of the cap. Besides, I
had no silver color on top while her roller skates are made of blue
and silver (of chrome). The silver cowboy hat was a good change and
also added to the "macha" thing (I thought of the hat upon seeing an
old clip of the Pet Shop Boys "Where the streets have no name" which
features a cowgirl). I still have her blue eyes to mirror the wheels
(and they're round as well :-) The blue and silver color scheme is
quite important. It's about water and purity. Water is also a female
element which is an added bonus :-)
It's one of those compositions I keep changing around (I've several of
those :-) and I still have to figure out a background. I'm seriously
considering placing her in the realm of men : a completely dirty
urinal room (and she's pissing on the floor, in a defying way and/or
marking her territory :-) Earth greens, yellows, browns give me an
easy way to make her "pop out" by color contrast. It has the
disadvantage that it has a visible roof (because of the low viewpoint)
which somewhat limits the feeling of great height (adding to the
"machaness") that should come from the viewpoint and perspective.
Making it outdoors gives me the advantage of clouds. It's free form so
I could use them add to the towering presence by means of swirling
clouds but the problem is that the sky is blue (overcast day would not
give me the opportunity to make the clouds swirl) and her colors are
basically blue as well, not giving me the opportunity to make her
dominate by color contrast. A warm yellow sunset is out of the
question, it would completely change the mood of the painting into
something romantic or nostalgic instead of being a painting of
confronting female sexuality.
Anyway, what made me start drawing was a question about composition
posted by Matt Viinanen on WetCanvas. I wanted to answer it (making a
dramatic return) and illustrate it by a bunch of sketches but by the
time I had half finished a sketch from "Das Boot" (the death scene of
the captain) meant to elucidate the concept of using space in a
composition to change its meaning, already 20 replies had been posted.
I don't like to add to the end of a thread. My monster articles must
come first and end any intent of others considering to reply, by fear
of looking dumb next to my brilliance :-) Perhaps I should prepare
answers to such questions before they're asked :-)
Lauri Levanto
I do not rememner the death of the captain in Das Boot.
-lauri
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>Das Boot? You don't mean "Haien und kleinere Fishe".
>I do not rememner the death of the captain in Das Boot.
>-lauri
No, "Das Boot" (1981) from director Wolfgang Petersen with Jürgen
Prochnow as captain of a German U Boot in WW2 and Herbert Grönemeyer
as a lieutenant who travels along as a correspondent. It's one of the
greatest movies ever (currently at #47 in the Top 100 movies at the
internet movie database, got 6 oscar nominations).
If you ever want to see a movie with great faces (expressing
everything from joy, sadness, fear, pain, etc.) the you have to see
this movie. Make sure you see the "Director's cut" though, the regular
version is more action orientated. It's one of the few realistic war
movies showing the fear of young men in a cramped submarine instead of
the fearless heroism we see all too often.
Paul Mesken
Weller) wrote:
But how about pride, the greatest of all sins? :-)
Erik A. Mattila
Or humility, the most insufferable of all virtues? ;-)
>
Dilettante
I may know the answer, and will
> reveal it...
we can't wait, oh prescient one.
Dilettante
Lauri Levanto
In the Haien und kleinere Fishe (book) is a sequence where the
crew is swimming from the sunken boat. They are tied into a rope to keep
together.
The main character was nect to capt. Wegener, hwo dies underway.
Everytime the seagull land to pick his eyes, the main character pulls the
rope to get the head under water.
That is such a strong image, I immediately thought that.
I do have Das Boot on tape, but my TV broke in January, and I'll never buy
a new.
TV operates on the energy it sucks from the people looking.
-lauri
Freddy Fingerpaint
and wondered if it was really true.
"Cliff D. Weller" <over...@dontemailme.com> schreef in bericht
news:4082...@news.zianet.com...
Erik A. Mattila
Can't you view it on your Nookia in 4 bits?
Erik
>
>
>
>
Lauri Levanto
"Erik A. Mattila" wrote:
>
>
> Can't you view it on your Nookia in 4 bits?
>
> Erik
>
The funny thing is that when I retired, I got my computer with me but not a
phone.
So I have the cheapest second hand phone.
While working at Nokia, I succeeded 12+ years without a mobile.
Then they forced me to move in a new office building
with no landline receptacles.
-lauri
PS. A few days ago you quoted some indian philosophy.
Can you recommend good reading on the subject.
Not Castaneda!
Dr. Slick
Fantanstic film! just got the director's cut on DVD! Great!
Great music too!
Slick
Major Slacker
if the dream will come true.
" Freddy Fingerpaint" <fre...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:c62jjv$6ku$1...@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Inchy Lahda
>
>I am here because I had a vivid dream about this newsgroup and am wondering
>if the dream will come true.
If you dream upon a star, makes no
difference who you are...
OTOH, too much exposure to certain
"food" here can give you nightmares.
Specifically those Deli items that
come in Mani forms, or as Delitainted.
cantueso
> As the greatest of all virtues, it's
> virtually non-existent in this forum!
who considers it the greatest of all virtues?
I remember vaguely that a Catholic lawyer once said that impatience
was the greatest sin, but I do not remember what his references were.
anyway, I did not mean patience in this sense. after all, it is a
good forum and there is some four letter wording, but not too much.
the problem is that all talk about art has to be figurative. this is
why most people can't say what they mean.
Thur
"cantueso" <cant...@dieznet.com> wrote in message
news:a76725c6.04042...@posting.google.com...
Don't you mean all talk about art has to be realist"?
I don't remember much ranting about the human figure.
I notice that in spite of creating much ire, Mani does not
get much in the way of a reasoned explanation of abstract
art.
Perhaps those who champion abstract art, or contemporary
art have nothing to say that will bear reading? Hope not.
Why don't you post up something rather than sliding into
a personal war, which only disappoints.
Even if people who have never posted anything of much
interest, jump in and feed off your posts, criticize you
and flame you, you may well help to set a new standard??
Art is need of something, not just more endless and
pointless flames.
Thur
cantueso
> >
> > the problem is that all talk about art has to be figurative. this is
> > why most people can't say what they mean.
>
> Don't you mean all talk about art has to be realist"?
> I don't remember much ranting about the human figure.
you misunderstand. you see a pasinting and you say it is "pretty" or
"first class" or "third rate": you have not said anything about the
painting. you have only tried to classify your reaction to it.
next you could try a description: a house, a man, a vertical line,...
and this does not go anywhere.
so? it would be necessary to make an effort which cannot be made in
spontaneous writing. for instance I say that what is generally called
"erotic" is meant to seduce, whereas "porno" is meant to offend. this
is figurative, meaning it is not literally so, it is as if: I am
translating colour into ethics.
> I notice that in spite of creating much ire, Mani does not
> get much in the way of a reasoned explanation of abstract
> art.
it is immensely difficult. his attacks are not reasoned either. to
call something "third rate" or "outdated" is only like making a face
at it: it is not an explanation. ("making a face" is another example
of a figurative expression)
interrupted, to continue later.
cantueso
is that a biblical definition?
but I have not seen much of it in this forum.
aggressive speech is not necessirly indicative of pride
it may be a technique or it may be a bad habit or it may be
inarticulate gesturing.
de la peau du lion l'âne s'étant vétu...
(I do not remember exactly)
cantueso
> I don't remember much ranting about the human figure.
again: I may say that some colour is too "loud": I speak of colour as
if it were sound.
or I may say that some colour composition is "nebulous": so I use a
metaphor taken from meteorology.
> Perhaps those who champion abstract art, or contemporary
> art have nothing to say that will bear reading? Hope not.
I love Miró and Chagall's later works, what he painted when he was
about 50 and later. but to speak about that etc would take abilities
much beyond my own. the difficulty is exactly the same for music
critics. both in art and music critics are bribed, which is what keeps
the show going.
>
> Why don't you post up something rather than sliding into
> a personal war, which only disappoints.
war is sometimes necessary. I am not trying to be entertaining.
> and flame you, you may well help to set a new standard??
I don't know if that is the aim. I think it is not. maybe it is a war
of attrition.
Paul Mesken
>Paul Mesken <usu...@euronet.nl> wrote in message ...
>> On 19 Apr 2004 07:25:25 -0600, over...@dontemailme.com (Cliff D.
>>
>> But how about pride, the greatest of all sins? :-)
>
>is that a biblical definition?
>but I have not seen much of it in this forum.
>aggressive speech is not necessirly indicative of pride
Well, aggressive speech is a possible indication of one of those other
Deadly Sins : Anger (but it might also be for the purpose of mere
entertainment, hard to tell :-)
However, there's a lot of pride going round in this forum (as any
other place). Arrogance, disrespect and contempt indicate it. It is
the excessive belief in one's own abilities. The other sins flow from
it, therefor it is the greatest of all sins.
cantueso
> Deadly Sins : Anger (but it might also be for the purpose of mere
> entertainment, hard to tell :-)
>
> However, there's a lot of pride going round in this forum (as any
> other place). Arrogance, disrespect and contempt indicate it. It is
> the excessive belief in one's own abilities.
I do not think so. it is wrong to think that if I criticise a
painting, I ought to be able to do it better. a good example is
architecture. the buildings are public. they are my horizon. I say
they are ugly: which does not mean that I could build one. and some
books and paintings become horizon, too;( don´t they!!!).
however, obviously, it would be nice if people took the time and made
the effort neccessary to say what they mean. that is difficult. the
stronger my reaction, the more difficult will it be to say why I love
or hate a picture or a book or a melody.
Goethe said that most people have to suffer in silence and can't say
what they mean.
Thur
Of course the Most Deadly Sin is that which I have convinced myself
that I am free of and which I observe in everyone else.
:-)
Thur (awaiting beatification)
NightMist
>
>"Paul Mesken" <usu...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
>news:kvhn80tjga0c985ub...@4ax.com...
>> On 25 Apr 2004 00:39:57 -0700, cant...@dieznet.com (cantueso) wrote:
>>
>> >Paul Mesken <usu...@euronet.nl> wrote in message ...
>> >> On 19 Apr 2004 07:25:25 -0600, over...@dontemailme.com (Cliff D.
>> >>
>> >> But how about pride, the greatest of all sins? :-)
>> >
>> >is that a biblical definition?
>> >but I have not seen much of it in this forum.
>> >aggressive speech is not necessirly indicative of pride
>>
>> Well, aggressive speech is a possible indication of one of those other
>> Deadly Sins : Anger (but it might also be for the purpose of mere
>> entertainment, hard to tell :-)
>>
>> However, there's a lot of pride going round in this forum (as any
>> other place). Arrogance, disrespect and contempt indicate it. It is
>> the excessive belief in one's own abilities. The other sins flow from
>> it, therefor it is the greatest of all sins.
>>
>
>Of course the Most Deadly Sin is that which I have convinced myself
>that I am free of and which I observe in everyone else.
>:-)
>Thur (awaiting beatification)
<ahem>
By the power vested in me through ownership of big stompy armored
leather boots and hate mail from local PETAfreaks(1), I hereby
canonize thee Saint Thur the Sinfree, patron of casting logs and
plucking splinters. Your day has been designated as every other fouth
Monday in April, to be shared with Saint Bobo the chimp as usual.
You have been added to the roster of saints sort of maintained by The
Evil Daughters of Eris Cabal.
Celebration at my house, BYOB, SubGs welcome.
Hail Eris!
Barbara
(1) no, it wasn't the boots. It was overhearing me extoll the virtues
of mongoose brushes at the local coffee shop. Miserable eavesdropping
buggers! "Oh! The poor little mongooses, they are so cute!" Grrr
--
"It's such a gamble when you get a face"
- Richard Hell
Thur
"NightMist" <nigh...@uir.zzn.com> wrote in message
news:408d0f72...@news.madbbs.com...
My Shrine will be a place where The Holy Relics
of pre-Abstract art are kept, and Realist paints
may be placed with reverence.
Miracles such as the sudden appearance in
galleries of the pilgrim's Realist works, the
sudden ending of a creative block, and even
the praise of my acknowledged Prophet, the
sainted Nilges may occur, accompanied with
paint bleeding from the wrists and ankles.
May your works be sold for enormous sums.
Thur
cantueso
> By the power vested in me through ownership of big stompy armored
> leather boots and hate mail from local PETAfreaks(1), I hereby
> canonize thee Saint Thur the Sinfree, patron of casting logs and
> plucking splinters. Your day has been designated as every other fouth
> Monday in April, to be shared with Saint Bobo the chimp as usual.
> You have been added to the roster of saints sort of maintained by The
> Evil Daughters of Eris Cabal.
> Celebration at my house, BYOB, SubGs welcome.
>
> Hail Eris!
>
> Barbara
> (1) no, it wasn't the boots. It was overhearing me extoll the virtues
> of mongoose brushes at the local coffee shop. Miserable eavesdropping
> buggers! "Oh! The poor little mongooses, they are so cute!" Grrr
now look at that. I have been learning English all my life, day in day
out, and I do not understand, can't even guess, what your message
could be about.
since it not addressed to me, it does not matter. the point is that
English speakers, since they do not learn foreign languages except a
little, can't realize what is outside.
NightMist
As an Erisian, I will take that as a great compliment!
As the esteemed Jazz pointed out, cultural context is all. This has
been the problem of persons learning second languages for centuries.
You may have a great vocabulary and an intimate grasp of the grammer,
but still be confused because of the lack of cultural context. This
has been an especial problem to Americans learning second laguages for
generations, purely due to geography. Many times what you end up
learning in an American school when taking a second language, is
terribly flawed. Here, you are usually learning from someone who also
learned it in school and has never been to a country where the
language is spoken. Mexican or Puerto Rican spanish, or Canadian or
Creole french are about the closest thing to an actual experience of
another language that the average American can get.
Cultural context has also been a problem of artists since humans began
communicating over distance. Art in all media has been praised,
banned, and puzzled over in assorted countries and regions around the
world because the context to adequetely understand it in was not
inherent to all.
Oh, perhaps some definitions of words and abbreviations in the
referenced post may be of assistance
.
PETA: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals They sound
innocent enough, but they are the types that believe animals should
be seen and not interacted with, and go about "freeing" farm animals
and throwing paint on fur coats.
Eris: Greek Goddess of Discord, best known for tossing the Golden
Apple that resulted in the Trojan War. Worshipers of Eris are known
as Discordians or Erisians. (that should explain a LOT) To be further
confused try http://www.discordian.com/discordian.html
BYOB: Bring Your Own Bottle Frequently used as a way of throwing a
party cheaply, it means bring your own beverage of choice.
Sub G : an abbreviation for Sub Genius. Cannot be explained briefly,
try http://www.subgenius.com if you are that curious.
Barbara