"Great art will always tell you what you need to know. Great art will reveal its secrets to you. All you have to do is give it your attention. You do not have to produce it or reproduce it."

[aest...@hotmail.com]

Concerning this comment made in another post, any reactions?

[aest...@hotmail.com]

I would say that if you REALLY want to know the secrets of a
masterpiece, you have to have them revealed to you by a teacher.

[aest...@hotmail.com]

I agree that you do not have to produce it or reproduce it:

- Only the skilled can judge the skillfulness, but that is not the same
as judging the value of the result.

C.S. Lewis (A Preface to Paradise Lost)

-------

But I feel that one needs a teacher to have a masterpiece's secrets
revealed.

[chris]

aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I would say that if you REALLY want to know the secrets of a
> masterpiece, you have to have them revealed to you by a teacher.

Only if you are too stupid to understand them anyway (and in which case
the relevation will be meaningless and rote). If you want to really
understand anything, you have to do so on your own. After all, in your
system there would be no revelation - for who taught the first
teachers?

CB

[Bill]

If great art will reveal its secrets, then I guess that proves that most of
the smearings and daubings and splatterings called modern art fail to
qualify as great. No secrets are revealed to me. Now the question becomes
does it even qualify as "art"

[artangel]

To you no.

To the rest of us yes.

Both valid.

[Mani Deli]

On 7 Jan 2006 06:57:55 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

Fartangel now imagines she speaks for everyone with a few exceptions.

[s_l_a...@hotmail.com]

There are many ways to gain insight into an artwork. Instruction
through a teacher would be one of them.

Why do you propose this method in particular as an absolute necessity?
To what method of instruction are you referring?

[artangel]

Now my dearest Mani,

You know that is not true.
I do not speak for you.
That would mean I am stupid.
Just like you.

[aest...@hotmail.com]

- It is the true nature of mankind to learn from mistakes, not from
example. (Fred Hoyle)

And without a teacher, how can one know if one has made any mistakes?

Isn't it human nature that one is oblivious to one's mistakes which
usually have to pointed out to one by a teacher?

[s_l_a...@hotmail.com]

aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> - It is the true nature of mankind to learn from mistakes, not from
> example. (Fred Hoyle)
>
> And without a teacher, how can one know if one has made any mistakes?

Your original assertion was "I would say that if you REALLY want to

know the secrets of a
masterpiece, you have to have them revealed to you by a teacher."

Perhaps you should defend this statement rather than changing course
mid-argument.

[artangel]

I remember years ago the stage director Peter Brook presented his
interpertation of the Bizet opera Carmen in Lincoln Center in New York.

He put his vision of the opera together in remote areas of Africa. The
performances were presented to the local population. They were hardly
opera fans and not at all familiar with european classical music. The
essence of the music was not changed to meet local taste and it was
sung in French.

When he delighted his local African audience he knew his production was
ready.

What did he do to entice the local Africans as well as hard core New
Yorkers?

Did he give classes on opera in the African county side? No. Did he
hold lengthy discussions on Bizet and the French music scene of his
day? No.

He stripped the opera of the excesses that have built into it over time
and presented the work in a very simple straight forward manner.

"Great art will always tell you what you need to know. Great art will
reveal its secrets to you. All you have to do is give it your
attention."

[Thur]

"artangel" <cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1136902986.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

You are probably on surer ground making Opera the object of
your advocacy of Minimalism.

> stripped the opera of the excesses that have built into it over time <

Sounds very much like that talk which tries to make a couple of
rectangles into something they are not.
Assuming those from the African countryside are less sophisticated
and possibly less educated than their fellow citizens, then a simplified
or even dumbed down version of an Opera may well have gone down
better.
Perhaps 7 Brides for 7 Brothers next time?
Or stripped of the essentials, Hair?

p.s I cannot get the very long subject lines read in my
Outlook Express 6. therefore I have abbreviated it.

--
Thur

[Mani Deli]

On 10 Jan 2006 06:23:06 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

>"Great art will always tell you what you need to know.

Like?

> Great art will
>reveal its secrets to you. All you have to do is give it your
>attention."

Name three secrets it has revealed to you.

[artangel]

Thur,

I think you missed the point.

The trappings associated with opera, the sets, costumes, the opera
house atmosphere were eliminated. What was left was Bizets' work. Not
a dumbed down version. This is not an advocacy of Minimalism.

I think we can safely say that Bizet is not a minimalist composer.

The production played as well in New York at Lincoln Center. Not a
place where Carmen is unknown.

The point is:

"Great art will always tell you what you need to know. Great art will
reveal its secrets to you. All you have to do is give it your

attention." You dont need a teacher to guide you through it in order
to have a rewarding experience.

Mani,

Spaghetti,
Horses,
Motor Oil.

See? My answers can be as stupid as your questions.

[Mani Deli]

On 10 Jan 2006 17:57:02 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

My Question was, Name three secrets great art has revealed to you.

>Mani,
>
>Spaghetti,
>Horses,
>Motor Oil.
>
>See? My answers can be as stupid as your questions.

Hey toots, loosen your panties it will help you think of better
answers.

[aest...@hotmail.com]

But didn't Peter Brook play the role of the teacher?

[aest...@hotmail.com]

A teacher can not only point out your mistakes/misinterpretation, but
can also save you time by pointing out things you have also overlooked:

- Not only does one not retain all at once the truly rare works, but
even within such works it is the least precious parts that one
perceives first. Less deceptive than life, these great masterpieces do
not give us their best at the beginning.

Marcel Proust

[artangel]

Why Mani,

You little devil you,

Thats still stupid, but getting better.

Keep up the good work.

[artangel]

There comes a time when one has to trust ones judgement. The problem
with many is that they are so timid in expressing their opinions for
fear of making a mistake. Can one really make a mistake in a
subjective field such as appreciation of art?

Take for example our dear Mani. (Oh please do take him) He has a bias
that he will never get over. He may be truly uninformed and not the
sharpest tool in the shed. His views however are valid to him. The
art he enjoys is based on a personal decision. That is perfectly
acceptable. (His truly dumb statements are another matter)

"Great art will always tell you what you need to know. Great art will
reveal its secrets to you. All you have to do is give it your

attention." Notice that I never said that this would be immediate. I
see fresh new things in paintings I have seen for years. They are like
good friends. No matter how many times you see them the experience is
always different and fresh.

Always be careful of "not seeing the forest for the trees". Rely more
on your own instincts combined with knowledge to have a truly great
experience with art.

[Peter H.M. Brooks]

artangel wrote:
>
> The art he enjoys is based on a personal decision. That is perfectly
> acceptable. (His truly dumb statements are another matter)
>

Not when he tries to force everybody else to agree with the bullshit.
That is the problem. Of course, if somebody really likes ducks on the
wall or those copper drawings of really life-like African animals, that
is their affair. After all, without a massive market for kitsch there
wouldn't be an kitsch, would there.

But having somebody hammer on about why kitsch is so much better than
anything else is really boring - particularly when, as in Mani's case,
he's been inflicting the bullshit for several years.

I wouldn't even mind if there was an element of rational argument in it
- simply stating opinions as if that makes the case is a particularly
infantile approach.

Still, it is good, I suppose, to be reminded that such people exist.
Without the nutters we'd end up imagining that the world was peopled by
the rational and end up with nasty shocks when meeting real people.

--
"Aye, of that Chingis was it said that while he carpeted all Asia
with bones, yet might a virgin with a bag of gold walk the length of his
dominions without harm, so perfect was his governance" - George
MacDonald Fraser, 'The Candlemass Road'
* TagZilla 0.057 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

[Mani Deli]

On 11 Jan 2006 07:00:08 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

>Take for example our dear Mani. (Oh please do take him) He has a bias
>that he will never get over. He may be truly uninformed and not the
>sharpest tool in the shed. His views however are valid to him. The
>art he enjoys is based on a personal decision. That is perfectly
>acceptable. (His truly dumb statements are another matter)
>
>"Great art will always tell you what you need to know. Great art will
>reveal its secrets to you. All you have to do is give it your
>attention." Notice that I never said that this would be immediate.

Hey stupid, just tell us secret revealed to you. Bet I'll get the
usaul statement.

>see fresh new things in paintings I have seen for years. They are like
>good friends. No matter how many times you see them the experience is
>always different and fresh.
>
>Always be careful of "not seeing the forest for the trees". Rely more
>on your own instincts combined with knowledge to have a truly great
>experience with art.

That's why fartangel has nothing to show.

[Mani Deli]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:11:59 +0200, "Peter H.M. Brooks"
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:

>artangel wrote:
>>
> > The art he enjoys is based on a personal decision. That is perfectly
>> acceptable. (His truly dumb statements are another matter)
>>
>Not when he tries to force everybody else to agree with the bullshit.

and how do I force this? Perhaps My writing disagrees with your
opinions and cranks like you see that as force. My writing can't FORCE
agreement any more than your drivel.

>That is the problem. Of course, if somebody really likes ducks on the
>wall or those copper drawings of really life-like African animals, that
>is their affair. After all, without a massive market for kitsch there
>wouldn't be an kitsch, would there.

And without the small expensive market for charlatans there would be
no Modern Academic art.

>But having somebody hammer on about why kitsch is so much better than
>anything else is really boring - particularly when, as in Mani's case,
>he's been inflicting the bullshit for several years.

Is this poor jerk an another art teacher?

>I wouldn't even mind if there was an element of rational argument in it
>- simply stating opinions as if that makes the case is a particularly
>infantile approach.

You mean opinions contrary to yours .

[artangel]

"And without the small expensive market for charlatans there would be
no Modern Academic art."

Usual statement Mani?

I know its hard for you our little pumpkin head, but just try to read
the thread again. Then perhaps you will see why
"just tell us secret revealed to you" is such a stupid question.

Hint: Every work of art in every field, music, dance, theatre or the
visual arts has individual ongoing secrets it reveals to the viewer.

[chris]

No. A primary function of the intellect is to analyse the effects of
one's actions. If you lack an intellect, that would be a different
issue, and a teacher would be of no help in that case. Nor would a
newsgroup (fwiw).
CB

[zeno]

artangel wrote:

> Why Mani,
>
> You little devil you,
>

Actually Mani is THE DEVIL and his technique teacher is Karl Rove.

[artangel]

I must disagree with you.

Karl Rove is evil and very smart. He can give the devil a run for the
money.

Manni is our dear tomato brained, grouchy elf. Really nothing more
than entertaining.

See Mani, I stood up for you.

[Mani Deli]

On 12 Jan 2006 06:04:16 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hey toots, if you loosen you overly tight panties or buy the next
size up, your wishful fantasies might diminish.

[Mani Deli]

On 11 Jan 2006 17:39:34 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

>I know its hard for you our little pumpkin head, but just try to read
>the thread again. Then perhaps you will see why
>"just tell us secret revealed to you" is such a stupid question.

You made the claim, swollen head!

>Hint: Every work of art in every field, music, dance, theatre or the
>visual arts has individual ongoing secrets it reveals to the viewer.

Fartangel, I just asked you to reveal some. I know you can't. I only
pointed it out to show that you subscribe to the usual Modern art
critics vacuous bullshit statements which they invent in order to
ramble on and on.

I'm sure your work reflects the lack of craft which aren't secret.

[zeno]

artangel wrote:

Yes, I see your point. You have done wonders here to neutralize him.
"Tomato brained, grouchy elf"....such a friendly way of saying it.
Nice. (not that nice for tomatoes however).

Z

[zeno]

Mani Deli wrote:

Mani, your craft is exceedingly boring. OK, fine for those who like that
sort of thing, and there is plenty of it out there. But other intelligent
and aesthetically informed individuals can enjoy other types of work for
which there is a valid history. But I guess you are basically a fascist
and cannot live and let live. By the way you are mostly wrong and ill
informed in all that you say, as anyone with half a brain can see.

z

[zeno]

Mani comes from a culture whose number system ends at 3 (1,2,3,
infinity) and defies the world to define 4 or any more. If you tell him
about "4" or more all he hears is bullshit because his mind truly can
only comprehend 3 and no more. Yet he continues to defy those who claim
there is more after 3. Ironically a "flatlander" who does not even know
that plane very well.

Z

[artangel]

Why Mani,

"Hey toots, if you loosen you overly tight panties or buy the next
size up, your wishful fantasies might diminish."

You naughty, naughty little gnome.

Thats twice you have referred to my panties! Oh My! I am blushing!

(For anyone else reading this Mani, despite my repeated attempts thinks
I am female. Oh well, if it makes our little tulip head happy, I will
play along.)

"Every work of art in every field, music, dance, theatre or the
>visual arts has individual ongoing secrets it reveals to the viewer.

Fartangel, I just asked you to reveal some."

Ok. How about:

Lip gloss
Shopping
Tampons

Did I get it right this time Mani darling?

(To any female readers I do apologize. We are in Mani world at the
moment where stupidity and misogyny reign supreme.)

You have to give Mani credit. Whatever the topic he always manages to
turn the attention towards him. That really is a talent.

[Mani Deli]

On 13 Jan 2006 16:00:46 GMT, biljo...@yahoo.com(Biljo White) wrote:

>"artangel" <cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Why Mani,
>>
>> "Hey toots, if you loosen you overly tight panties or buy the next
>> size up, your wishful fantasies might diminish."
>>
>> You naughty, naughty little gnome.
>>
>> Thats twice you have referred to my panties! Oh My! I am blushing!
>>
>

>You can't get mani off of an idea once he's landed on it. a long time ago,
>a couple of women used to try to reason with him here. his repeated
>references to their panties became a standing joke with them.

It didn't and one gal faked messages in my name something I'm sure
Bimbo White approves of. I guess panties offend him. I'm also sure
Bimbo White is as dumb and as uncreative as Fartangel who compares me
to Carl Rove.

> another mani
>fixation is assholes (anuses, not nasty people).

Hey, you're the one whose gay, which would lead me to presume that
you're far more into assholes than my two pictures which offend your
prudery no end. Or are you just a raving hypocrite who is offended by
Picasso's erotica?

> If you want a full dose of
>mental illness, look at some of the work featuring women and body parts on
>his website.

Like?

Wonder if this modern art freak ever looked at Belmar, Dali, etc.and
Picasso's distortion of women?

Yes check it out at http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/ Perhaps the
Bimbo can do an asshole count.

PS, Are you still working on that unfinished masterpiece you showed
three years ago?

[artangel]

"Fartangel who compares me
to Carl Rove."

Oh God! Never!

Carl Rove is very smart, savey and dangerous.

Mani, well---------

[Mani Deli]

On 13 Jan 2006 19:31:20 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

No toots, you're like Barbara Bush, fat, ugly and stupid.

[artangel]

See?

He cant figure it out! This is really funny.

Thank you Mani.

[aest...@hotmail.com]

aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I would say that if you REALLY want to know the secrets of a
> masterpiece, you have to have them revealed to you by a teacher.

- A mind without instruction can no more bear fruit than can a field,
however fertile, without cultivation.

Cicero

[s_l_a...@hotmail.com]

Well once again:

There are many ways to gain insight into an artwork. Instruction
through a teacher would be one of them.

Why do you propose this method in particular as an absolute necessity?
To what method of instruction are you referring?

[aest...@hotmail.com]

I just can't believe the arrogance of the self-taught.

How can one be aware if one has made any mistakes in interpretation
unless one has a teacher?

[chris]

aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I just can't believe the arrogance of the self-taught.
>
> How can one be aware if one has made any mistakes in interpretation
> unless one has a teacher?

Lol, it's hard to belive you are for real, But in case you are, think
of it this way - Obviously early in one's life one needs teaching; but
the smarter you are, and the better your early teachers, the sooner you
can fly on your own. Some people can do that before they venture into
art, and some people need to go through extensive training to attain
that degree of self awareness, and some never acheive it at all. Take
your pick as to where you are....

BTW, define "mistake in interpretation".

Cheers;
CB

[aest...@hotmail.com]

http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1961/october_17_1961_124557.html

[s_l_a...@hotmail.com]

aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> s_l_a...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > I would say that if you REALLY want to know the secrets of a
> > > > masterpiece, you have to have them revealed to you by a teacher.
> > >
> > > - A mind without instruction can no more bear fruit than can a field,
> > > however fertile, without cultivation.
> > >
> > > Cicero
> >
> > Well once again:
> >
> > There are many ways to gain insight into an artwork. Instruction
> > through a teacher would be one of them.
> >
> > Why do you propose this method in particular as an absolute necessity?
> > To what method of instruction are you referring?
>
> I just can't believe the arrogance of the self-taught.

ROTFL!!!

> How can one be aware if one has made any mistakes in interpretation
> unless one has a teacher?

Did a teacher inform you that I was self taught?

Have you any evidence that supports this view?

Once again, since you seem to be avoiding the question:

[artangel]

"October 17, 1961 in History

Event:
NY Museum of Modern Art hangs Henri Matisse's "Le Bateau" upside-down
It wasn't corrected until December 3rd"

I dont know if you noticed that was 35 YEARS ago. So the point is?

"I just can't believe the arrogance of the self-taught."

I just can't believe the arrogance of those who insist on instruction
by teachers and understand nothing.

"How can one be aware if one has made any mistakes in interpretation
unless one has a teacher?"

Without the ability to judge on your own, you will never know if the
teacher has made any mistakes in interpretation.

[aest...@hotmail.com]

- The self-taught man seldom knows anything accurately, and he does not
know a tenth as much as he could have known if he had worked under
teachers; and, besides, he brags, and is the means of fooling other
thoughtless people into going and doing as he himself had done.

Mark Twain

[aest...@hotmail.com]

- Persons without education certainly do not want either acuteness or
strength of mind in what concerns themselves, or in things immediately
within their observation; but they have no power of abstraction, no
general standard of taste, or scale of opinion. They see their objects
always near, and never in the horizon. Hence arises that egotism which
has been remarked as the characteristic of self-taught men.

William Hazlitt

[artangel]

Wonderful.

Quote, quote, quote.........................................

Do you have any original ideas or thoughts?

Here is a project for you, look up the numerous quotes on the
reguritation of ideas and mindless followers of wise men.

[s_l_a...@hotmail.com]

Agreed. All one needs is the ability to use a search engine and one can
find
famous writers to support either side of a case within seconds:

http://www.bartelby.com

[chris]

Which rather leans toward demonstrating the value of self education
over the institutional brand - after all, the person that noticed the
painting was upside down was a stockbroker, not a a curator; and it was
the (well-educated) curators who made the original mistake. The
curators - smug in their educations - refused to set it right way round
until they were called on by the NY Times, who sided with the
stockbroker - which rather indicates the only logic these 'educated'
folks actually listened to was the threat of public embarrassment.. Of
course they were hanging a work by an artist that would hardly qualify
for being of the highly trained variety anyway....(I assume Mani is
justafiably having a good laugh over this one - talk about a case of
the emperor's new clothes....)

CB

[artangel]

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it.
Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)"

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)"

"To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it,
requires brains.
Mary Pettibone Poole, "

"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated
sufficiently to reason incorrectly.
Michel de Montaigne (1533 - 1592)"

" He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for
Revolutionists"

"To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong.
Joseph Chilton Pearce "

"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which
ones to keep.
Scott Adams (1957 - )"

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare.
Harriet Martineau (1802 - 1876)"

"His priority did not seem to be to teach them what he knew, but rather
to impress upon them that nothing, not even... knowledge, was
foolproof.
J. K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix"

" You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world,
but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about
the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's
what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the
name of something and knowing something.
Richard Feynman (1918 - 1988)" ...... The same with Art.

" There are people who, instead of listening to what is being said to
them, are already listening to what they are going to say themselves.
Albert Guinon (1863 - 1923)"

Enough? Or shall we go on?

Off topic:

"Painting: The art of protecting flat surfaces from the weather and
exposing them to the critic.
Ambrose Bierce (1842 - 1914)," - Very Funny.

[artangel]

I forgot these gems.

"Every man who rises above the common level has received two
educations: the first from his teachers; the second, more personal and
important, from himself."
Edward Gibbon (1737 - 1794) English historian

"Those who know how to think need no teachers. "
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948) Indian philosopher

" You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a
lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room."
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991) US author, illustrator

[aest...@hotmail.com]

aest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I would say that if you REALLY want to know the secrets of a
> masterpiece, you have to have them revealed to you by a teacher.

For those who would brush aside authority:

- The strand that runs through everything I've written is a love of the
arts as a realm where freedom and authority exist side by side.

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=%22The+strand+that+runs+through+everything+I%27ve+written%22&ei=UTF-8&u=www.artsjournal.com/visualarts/redir/20051016-59874.html&w=%22the+strand+that+runs+through+everything+i%27ve+written%22&d=WASTJW1aMH9P&icp=1&.intl=us

[aest...@hotmail.com]

- A painting in a museum hears more ridiculous opinions than anything
else in the world.

Edmond de Goncourt

[s_l_a...@hotmail.com]

And the quotation continues "And the individual artist - or viewer
- engages that authority freely, as an individual, finding his or her
own way. "

Your posts are kind of a silly waste of time aren't they?

[artangel]

"For those who would brush aside authority:"

No one is doing that.

" The strand that runs through everything I've written is a love of the

arts as a realm where freedom and authority exist side by side."

The ultimate judgement if something is valid must come from the
individual. Do I find joy in art, baseball or both. No art teacher or
baseball coach can make that decision for me.

[aest...@hotmail.com]

- Culture is the habit of being pleased with the best and knowing why.

Henry Van Dyke

[Erik A. Mattila]

But be careful...they (NSA) are watching.

[artangel]

I hope its not run by Mani!

[Mani Deli]

On 25 Jan 2006 22:51:29 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

But you can't show any of your work because its probably on a
chimpanzee level.

[artangel]

ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Watch a rational thought pass right by Mani's brain!

Thanks Mani, very amusing.

[Erik A. Mattila]

artangel wrote:
> I hope its not run by Mani!
>

No, no no...not THAT NSA (Neurotic Suffering Artists). I'm talking
about the National Security Agency. You know, the one Condo Rice used
to run. Hey, did you catch Whoopie Goldberg's comment last year?
"Condolezza Rice? Sounds like a venerial disease." (yuk yuk)

[Mani Deli]

On 26 Jan 2006 15:53:09 -0800, "artangel"
<cityofim...@verizon.net> wrote:

But you can't show any of your work because its probably on a
chimpanzee level.

[Mani Deli]

I believe that:

-that the great mass of the most revered Modern Art masterpieces
really consists of comparatively inferior work.

-that Modern Art is primarily dependent on talk rather than artistic
skill.

-that the majority of works of Modern Art created by its so-called
masters are easily imitated and surpassed by a vast population of
unrecognized artists who are equal or superior in skill but are
destined to remain unknown because they lack proper connections.

-that Modern Art is a name game and that great prices are only paid
for big names regardless of quality.

-that at some future time, when tastes change, a new consensus will
decide what is worthwhile and the whole edifice of Modern Art will be
negatively reassessed.

[Mani Deli]

On 27 Jan 2006 13:42:42 GMT, danfoxa...@yahoo.com(Dan Fox) wrote:

>This troll is sung to the tune of : 'I Believe In Every Drop of Rain That
>Falls ...,' etc. When was this one first posted?

It was first posted when I noticed your paintings resembled chimpanzee
imitations. You'll probably be painting the same drivel by the time I
post the message again next year.

How are you doing in the furniture stores? Perhaps you might get
Artangel to represent you..

[Mani Deli]

quotes

"In 1900 at the Universal Exposition in Paris, it is reported that
Degas and Monet were approached by a newspaper reporter who asked who,
in their opinion, would most likely be considered the greatest 19th
century French artist in the year 2000. After a brief debate, both
agreed on one man - William Bouguereau.

What did these two geniuses of French Impressionism see that their
chief followers and supporters over the next hundred years did not?
For Bouguereau, a true genius of the art of painting, was soon to fall
so far from grace that art history students in the 1940s through to
the 1980's could study 19th century art and never hear his name, or
see one of his paintings.--"

Fred Ross, art historian and founder of ARC

http://www.artrenewal.org/

[aest...@hotmail.com]

Mani Deli wrote:
> I believe that:

> -that Modern Art is primarily dependent on talk rather than artistic
> skill.

- I do not have much patience with a thing of beauty that must be
explained to be understood. If it does need additional interpretation
by someone other than the creator, then I question whether it has
fulfilled its purpose.

Charlie Chaplin

- Interpretation is the revenge of the intellect upon art. Even more.
It is the revenge of the intellect upon the world. To interpret is to
impoverish, to deplete the world -- in order to set up a shadow world
of ''meanings.''

Susan Sontag

[aest...@hotmail.com]

Mani Deli wrote:
> I believe that:
>
> -that the great mass of the most revered Modern Art masterpieces
> really consists of comparatively inferior work.

- Much of modern art is devoted to lowering the threshold of what is
terrible. By getting us to what, formerly, we could not bear to see or
hear, because it was too shocking, painful, or embarrassing, art
changes
morals.

Sontag

[artangel]

Ralph Waldo Emerson:
Stay at home in your mind. Don't recite other people's opinions. I hate
quotations. Tell me what you know. Journals, 1843

[Mani Deli]

There are only three catagories of what can be said about art. they
can all be reduced to:

-I like it or I don't.

-The historical

-Discussion and opinion about technique.

There is a fourth which I don't count as valid namely,
incomprehensible babble.

It is the business of Modern Artspeak to say any of this using at
least 200 words where 20 would suffice.

[Mani Deli]

The artist who lacks skill expresses little more than frustration.

Any forgivness for a lack of skill is a temporary surrender to
fashion.

[kon...@yahoo.com]

Why fashion?

[aest...@hotmail.com]

kon...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Why fashion?

- You cannot be both fashionable and first-rate.

Logan Pearsall Smith

[Mani Deli]

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 02:50:37 GMT, E. laBrett Ruus
<elr...@mailinator.com> wrote:

>In article <1138665238.0...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
>aest...@hotmail.com says...

>>
>> kon...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > Why fashion?
>>
>> - You cannot be both fashionable and first-rate.

Peter Paul Reubens

>You cannot be both bitter and first-rate either.

George Gross

[wechter krogstad]

Sorry but they had to be putting that reporter on, and he was probably as
much of a twit as you.
"Mani Deli" <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:0hhkt1dm0p3jj77en...@4ax.com...