Glazing and oils question
dio...@iscweb.com
Glad to find this group. I didn't know who to ask this question of without
looking to much like an amateur or an idiot, although I suppose I'm probably
both (haha!) When I am oil painting, I want to use glazes, to build up the
effect. So I paint my first layer, I've tried to use a glaze of linseed oil
and oil paint mixed, to different degrees of thickness, sometimes more linseed
oil or more paint, but it always beads up on the surface of my painting.
Sometimes this doesn't happen right away, only while drying. But it
invariably happens. So what's the deal, am I supposed to be mixing the paint
with a different medium to get a glaze, or am I supposed to add something, or
what? I feel so dumb! Is it possible that my linseed oil is just too old? I've
had the same problem with stand oil-- is this the same thing? HEEEEEEEEEELP!
I'm sick of ruining my paintings!
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Charles Eicher
> Glad to find this group. I didn't know who to ask this question of without
> looking to much like an amateur or an idiot, although I suppose I'm probably
> both (haha!) When I am oil painting, I want to use glazes, to build up the
> effect. So I paint my first layer, I've tried to use a glaze of linseed oil
> and oil paint mixed, to different degrees of thickness, sometimes more linseed
> oil or more paint, but it always beads up on the surface of my painting.
> Sometimes this doesn't happen right away, only while drying. But it
> invariably happens. So what's the deal, am I supposed to be mixing the paint
> with a different medium to get a glaze, or am I supposed to add something, or
> what? I feel so dumb! Is it possible that my linseed oil is just too old? I've
> had the same problem with stand oil-- is this the same thing? HEEEEEEEEEELP!
> I'm sick of ruining my paintings!
Don't feel bad, when I first used linseed oil, I thought it was great,
until I came back to my painting the next day, and found all my pigments
were so wet, they had run down the canvas into a puddle..
Try varying the mixture. I recently described my favorite medium mixture,
but I realized I forgot one element that might solve your problem (can you
tell I haven't mixed any medium lately?) Anyway, try using 1 part stand
oil, 1 part linseed, 1 part damar varnish (thats the part I forgot) and one
or maybe two parts of turpentine (turpenoid works OK).. Mix it in a squeeze
bottle (for easy application) and let it dissolve for a few days. Stand oil
takes a LONG time to go into solution.
The damar varnish seems to make the oils bind to the canvas. I read one
description of damar, it says that it actually helps pull the paint off
your brush onto the canvas.
It can be troublesome to get the right proportions of paint/medium/solvent.
The applied paint, when dry, can take on different shinyness, from quite
matte (low media) to very shiny (lots of media). I suggest you get two
squeeze bottles, one for the medium, and one for turpentine. This makes
dispensing small amounts easier, and its easier to control the proportions
of medium and turps.
Keep practicing. It takes a while to get this all under control, but its
worth it. There really isn't a magic formula, its just practice that makes
the techniques work.
| Charles Eicher |
| -=- |
| cei...@inav.net |
Bob C
dio...@iscweb.com wrote:
>
> Glad to find this group. I didn't know who to ask this question of without
> looking to much like an amateur or an idiot, although I suppose I'm probably
> both (haha!) When I am oil painting, I want to use glazes, to build up the
> effect. So I paint my first layer, I've tried to use a glaze of linseed oil
> and oil paint mixed, to different degrees of thickness, sometimes more linseed
Unless I'm mistaken, the fat over lean rule is still in effect, so take
this into consideration when mixing your mediums and paint.
What the rule says is that each subsequent layer of paint should have a
greater oil content than the layer underneath it (oil = fat). This is
because the oil makes the paint more flexible. If an outer layer is less
flexible, it will crack.
Most generic painting mediums will mix oil with some form of mineral
spirit (turpentine) and possibly varnish. The more turpentine you put
in, the leaner the mixture.
- Bob C.
LLoturco
As I have always been taught...the proportions for glazing are 1/3 Damar
varnish, 1/3 pigment, 1/3 Turpentine..do not use turpenoid for it does not
react well with damar varnish.
The fat over lean theory is very important due to drying time and cracking.
-Laura
Charles Eicher
In article <199805070732...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
llot...@aol.com (LLoturco) wrote:
> As I have always been taught...the proportions for glazing are 1/3 Damar
> varnish, 1/3 pigment, 1/3 Turpentine..do not use turpenoid for it does not
> react well with damar varnish.
That's ridiculous. I use turpenoid in my medium with damar varnish, it
works just fine. Your medium seems a little odd, though, without any
linseed oil or stand oil. Maybe your damar reacts oddly because of the lack
of other oils in the mixture..
| Charles Eicher |
| -=- |
| cei...@inav.net |
LLoturco
>That's ridiculous. I use turpenoid in my medium with damar varnish, it
>works just fine. Your medium seems a little odd, though, without any
>linseed oil or stand oil. Maybe your damar reacts oddly because of the lack
>of other oils in the mixture..
>
>
My mistake (geez I must have been tired) The medium proportions are 1/3 damar,
1/3 turpentin, 1/3 linseed... pigment added as needed for consistency/color.
Although I still hold to the turpentine -vs- turpenoid. Although turpenoid can
be used,( I used it for years)- for archival purposes the turpenoid is likly to
cause problems in time. Turpentine is created from organic resins alot like the
ones in the medium itself, so it mixes without conflict. While turpenoid is
basically a paint thinner, so while it may dilute and thin the pigments it
chemically does not mix with the medium. No doubt it can be used, but it may
not be the best choice.
-Laura
jha...@om.com.au
In article <ceicher-ya0240800...@207.211.168.92>,
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
>
> In article <6ioknc$mmc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, dio...@iscweb.com wrote:
>
> > Glad to find this group. I didn't know who to ask this question of without
> > looking to much like an amateur or an idiot, although I suppose I'm
probably
> > both (haha!) When I am oil painting, I want to use glazes, to build up the
> > effect. So I paint my first layer, I've tried to use a glaze of linseed
oil
> > and oil paint mixed, to different degrees of thickness, sometimes more
linseed
Turpentine or white spirit is soluable in oil and thins the oil.
Varnish is a clear hard setting resin which can be thinned by turps or
thickened by oil. Sometimes oil and varnish do not mix well(depending
often on the types)Turps will make paint dry faster and oil will retard the
drying. If you like to paint wet-in-wet over a long time more oil less turps.
If you want quick drying pigment in a thick suspension less oil more
varnish.etc.etc
John Hagan
Charles Eicher
> Oil is the MEDIUM that suspends the pigment(usually a colored powder).
> Turpentine or white spirit is soluable in oil and thins the oil.
> Varnish is a clear hard setting resin which can be thinned by turps or
> thickened by oil. Sometimes oil and varnish do not mix well(depending
> often on the types)Turps will make paint dry faster and oil will retard the
> drying. If you like to paint wet-in-wet over a long time more oil less turps.
> If you want quick drying pigment in a thick suspension less oil more
> varnish.etc.etc
> John Hagan
That is as succinct a description as you could want.
I can only add that adding varnish really does make a major difference in
painting wet over wet. My sister (who is a much better painter than I am)
showed me how to use medium properly, so that the paint is pulled off of
the brush onto the canvas, rather than dragging up the paint already on the
canvas and messing everything up. I always thought that the proportion of
damar and oil was crucial to this. I would explain further, but you really
have to see it firsthand, or just learn it yourself by experimentation.
Once I saw a couple of simple tricks, my painting improved almost
overnight. That's why I chip in my 2 cents so often about mediums, its
really important.
| Charles Eicher |
| -=- |
| cei...@inav.net |
inadream
dio...@iscweb.com wrote in message <6ioknc$mmc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Glad to find this group. I didn't know who to ask this question of without
>looking to much like an amateur or an idiot, although I suppose I'm
probably
>both (haha!) When I am oil painting, I want to use glazes, to build up the
>effect. So I paint my first layer, I've tried to use a glaze of linseed oil
>and oil paint mixed, to different degrees of thickness, sometimes more
linseed
>oil or more paint, but it always beads up on the surface of my painting.
>Sometimes this doesn't happen right away, only while drying. But it
>invariably happens. So what's the deal, am I supposed to be mixing the
paint
>with a different medium to get a glaze, or am I supposed to add something,
or
>what? I feel so dumb! Is it possible that my linseed oil is just too old?
I've
>had the same problem with stand oil-- is this the same thing?
HEEEEEEEEEELP!
>I'm sick of ruining my paintings!
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Oh my ... so many misunderstandings about painting techniques...
the best advise i read in this thread was the extremely important fat over
lean principle.
first i tell something about the building up of the painting in layers.
The first layers one should paint with acrylic medium (the old masters often
used tempera-paint in the first layers)
or very thin oil-paint. ( never put water-based acryl-medium on top of an
oil-based layer!)
this very thin oil-paint you get by mixing rectified turpentine with linseed
oil or stand oil and the oil-pigment;
(Always use some oil-medium )
Never use the cheap turpentine with which you clean your brushes to mix with
your paint, you can buy special rectified turpentine to mix with the paint.
This is what happens: the rectified turpentine makes the consistency of the
paint leaner, the turpentine-substance then has to disappear completely from
the paint, it dissolves in the air, when the paint is on the canvas . When
you use the normal turpentine, which is not as pure as the rectified
turpentine, the turpentine will leave some substance in the paint, which is
not desirable.
When the first oil-paint layer is dried you apply retouching varnish. this
is a very thin varnish . When you paint a new layer ,the colors will not
fade because of this varnish layer.
Then you can apply a new oil-paint layer. now you use just linseed- or
stand-oil to mix with the oil-paint (fat over lean ,remember)
(I never mixed damar varnish with the medium, i cannot judge that method...)
Again apply a retouching varnish before you paint over this dried layer.
Only as a last layer of paint you can use glazing techniques.
All the others forgot to mention that many old masters used 'venetian
turpentine' for glazing ,there are also special 'glazing mediums' you can
buy. You can mix these mediums with linseed oil or stand oil to make the
consistency leaner and to improve the flow. only use these glazing mediums
in the last layer(s).
Also I'd like to warn you for a major misunderstanding in the use of
glazing. There is a glazing myth...
A while ago, 50 or 60 years and longer ago , before they were cleaned and/or
restored many paintings had yellow varnish layers on them. These varnish
layers were transparant yellow layers and a lot of writers about painting
techniques thought that this were glazing layers. Max Doerner talks about
Rembrandts' painted faces with many glazings. In the restoration of the
Night-watch -in the seventies- it all became clear that he DID NOT glaze
int the faces of the night watch.
There is an excellent book about Rembrandts' techniques :
writer: Ernst van de Wetering
title: The painter at work
the writer is a member of the 'rembrandt research project' ;they have an
internet-site with excerpts from his book.
I always use the products of the dutch manufacturer 'Talens' . They have
excellent glazing mediums, venetian turpentine etc.
I have a tip about mixing oil-paint and medium: First mix the colors like
you want them and then improve the flow by adding the medium carefully.
Hope you can do something with my advise,
peter