The Great Debate: Oils or Acrylics
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like to work in both.
Gud E.Tushus
greatu...@hotmail.com says...
>
>Just tell which medium is your favorite one to paint with, or if you
>like to work in both.
Discriminatory! What about those of us
who work in MANY mediums, including the
two you single out? What's your point?
And why is it a debatable subject?
Dr. Slick
Certainly debatable, because there are many
artists who should be painting but are typing instead, wasting
their precious time!
I learned on arylics, love how quick they dry, but oils dry
fast too, if you use Liquin. And you can blend so well with oils, incredible.
Slick
keith o'connor
overpaint with oil? Talk about the best of both worlds.
--
take care: Keith
The eye should not be lead where there is nothing to see.
Robert Henri - The Art Spirit
"Dr. Slick" <radi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1d15af91.03082...@posting.google.com...
Andrew D
E.Tushus) wrote:
If we included ALL media it would turn into a mass debate - and we don't
want any of that around here. :)
Andy D.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"
Erik A. Mattila
Yeah, like the 'great debate' among boating fans over fiberglass v.
wood. Both camps seem to agree that aluminum makes a superior boat hull.
Wooden boat designer Pete Culler once wrote: "The inside of a fiberglass
boat looks like frozen snot."
But I got a book once published by the UN FAO (world's fisheries) and
one designer made the point that the "best" boat building material was
always what was available in a local area, what was economically
feasible, what was technologically doable etc.
So if you want to make your handprints on bolders, the "best" art
material is probably fire charcoal chewed-up in spit to an "airbrush"
standard grind. Very low toxicity and it has been tested for 35,000 year
longivity.
Erik
Peter H.M. Brooks
"Erik A. Mattila" <emat...@oco.net> wrote in message
news:3F4D7B8...@oco.net...
> Gud E.Tushus wrote:
> >
>
> Wooden boat designer Pete Culler once wrote: "The inside of a fiberglass
> boat looks like frozen snot."
>
behavioral quirk to me.
--
Men don't pay you to sleep with them. They pay you to go home - Philip Roth
'The Human Stain' pg 236
Erik A. Mattila
> "Erik A. Mattila" <emat...@oco.net> wrote in message
> news:3F4D7B8...@oco.net...
>
>>Gud E.Tushus wrote:
>>
>>Wooden boat designer Pete Culler once wrote: "The inside of a fiberglass
>>boat looks like frozen snot."
>>
>
> I've heard of people filing their nails, but freezing their snot is a new
> behavioral quirk to me.
Hmmmm....I believe Culler was from Maine. That might explain it.
Erik
Peter H.M. Brooks
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>
> >>Wooden boat designer Pete Culler once wrote: "The inside of a fiberglass
> >>boat looks like frozen snot."
> >>
> >
> > I've heard of people filing their nails, but freezing their snot is a
new
> > behavioral quirk to me.
>
> Hmmmm....I believe Culler was from Maine. That might explain it.
>
find is a quote from Catch-22 that might have a connection: "I've got some
live Maine lobsters hidden away that I can serve you tonight with an
excellent Roqufort salad and two frozen éclairs.".
--
Hark, wretches! how I mean to martyr you. This one hand yet is left to cut
your throats, Whilst that Lavinia 'tween her stumps doth hold the baisin
that receives your guilty blood. -Titus Andronicus (Hastivibrax)
Erik A. Mattila
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
> "Erik A. Mattila" <emat...@oco.net> wrote in message
> news:3F4DB08B...@oco.net...
>
>>Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Wooden boat designer Pete Culler once wrote: "The inside of a fiberglass
>>>>boat looks like frozen snot."
>>>>
>>>
>>>I've heard of people filing their nails, but freezing their snot is a
>>
> new
>
>>>behavioral quirk to me.
>>
>>Hmmmm....I believe Culler was from Maine. That might explain it.
>>
>
> I'm not sure of the significance of the Maine reference. The closest I can
> find is a quote from Catch-22 that might have a connection: "I've got some
> live Maine lobsters hidden away that I can serve you tonight with an
> excellent Roqufort salad and two frozen éclairs.".
Was that Sgt. Milo Minderbinder who said that? "Maine" is simply that
it is cold there - frozen a good part of the year, so frozen snot could
be part of the local folklore.
BTW, more nautical trivia: Strange words that sailor's use like
"Foc'sle" came to be because sailor's faces were frozen so often - in
the North Atlantic as well as sailing around the Horns. The idea was to
say "forecastle" without having to move your mouth too much.
Gud E.Tushus
>So if you want to make your handprints on bolders, the "best" art
>material is probably fire charcoal chewed-up in spit to an "airbrush"
>standard grind. Very low toxicity and it has been tested for 35,000 year
>longivity.
>
>Erik
Must be the heat there, or perhaps Igancio's remains!
I call it Saint Ignacio since, whoever is to thank,
I had an over an inch or rain on Monday - one of the
few monsoonal events of this drier than dry summer.
But back to art...
If you want to 'impress' a boulder, you'd be
better off using another rock to create a
petroglyph rather than charcoal - unless of
course you're creating your pictograph in
a deep dark cave somewhere that won't flood.
Erik A. Mattila
> In article <3F4D7B8...@oco.net>, emat...@oco.net says...
>
>
>
>>So if you want to make your handprints on bolders, the "best" art
>>material is probably fire charcoal chewed-up in spit to an "airbrush"
>>standard grind. Very low toxicity and it has been tested for 35,000 year
>>longivity.
>>
>>Erik
>
>
> Must be the heat there, or perhaps Igancio's remains!
> I call it Saint Ignacio since, whoever is to thank,
> I had an over an inch or rain on Monday - one of the
> few monsoonal events of this drier than dry summer.
Yeah, we got it here on Monday a.m. also (I think). About two hours of
'lectric blackout to boot, accented with a pretty spectacular lightening
display. I thought it was Saint Ignatz, though, when the brick flew
through the window. (remember Krazy Kat?)
>
> But back to art...
>
> If you want to 'impress' a boulder, you'd be
> better off using another rock to create a
> petroglyph rather than charcoal - unless of
> course you're creating your pictograph in
> a deep dark cave somewhere that won't flood.
I was thinking of those hand-prints in paleo art. I wouldn't want to
try that one with another rock.
Erik
>
>
Gud E.Tushus
>I was thinking of those hand-prints in paleo art. I wouldn't want to
>try that one with another rock.
>
>Erik
Yeah - makes 'hammering your thumb' seem
mild by comparison. But but but,
I'm unaware that any of the art
work in caves, that has survived from
paleolithic times, was done with charcoal.
I thought it was mostly earth pigments?
Certainly would have made it even more
difficult than it already was, working with
a black pigment in a place already so black.
And most of the southwestern pictographs
I've seen - and not in pitch-black caves -
have been earth pigments.
An aside...
When in Madrid (España, that is), I remember
going down a stairway into an underground
chamber on the grounds of an art museum
(not the Prado - maybe the Sofia) where there
was a 'replica' of Lascaux, or one of the
more famous caves in the Pyrenees. My thoughts
at the time were, "A lot of money for such
a questionable replication." The interior of
the "cavern" had been made to resemble the
rocks of the actual place - I guess - at least
it resembled 'real boulders.'
Erik A. Mattila
"Carbon Black" was a common pigment, and was made from charcoal, and in
some cases manganese ore. You can see that the color black is pretty
common in cave paintings. Here's an interesting run-down:
http://webexhibits.org/pigments/intro/early.html
Erik
>
>
>
>
Gud E.Tushus
>http://webexhibits.org/pigments/intro/early.html
>
>Erik
That page wouldn't open for me but I'll try
again another time. Of course I've been pulling
your chain a little on this subject. It's hardly
credible that, with burning torches and fires
within the caves for light and warmth, etc, there
wouldn't have been use of the resulting charcoal.
It was the 'longevity' part of the discourse
that got me to thinking. I wonder at the longevity
of charcoal versus the earth pigments used?
I guess I'll have to wait and try that webexhibits
site to find a possible answer.
Erik A. Mattila
in the palm of your hand. I say spit on it, rub it around, and create,
create, create!
BTW, Frederic Docksteader, "Dean" of American Indian Art history,
actually wrote that the invention of "Indian Painting" was caused by
dancers who were covered with ceremonial paint, who brushed against the
kiva walls and left "gestural" paint marks.
"Hey, Crawling Lizard! See that smudge of ochre over there on the wall,
where my painted butt cheek grazed it during that hot dance number last
night? Kind of looks like a buffalo with a buzzard beak with TV
antennas coming out of the head, don't it? Hmmmm..."
Erik
>
Gud E.Tushus
>BTW, Frederic Docksteader, "Dean" of American Indian Art history,
>actually wrote that the invention of "Indian Painting" was caused by
>dancers who were covered with ceremonial paint, who brushed against the
>kiva walls and left "gestural" paint marks.
Aw shit. And here I was thinking those 20th
century artists who coated their nude models with
paint and had them roll around on canvas were
'inventing' something unheard of before...
Now you have me wondering about your use of the
term "invention of Indian Painting." I am having
a hard time keeping up with your educational
references already - and now you add another
one I'll have to look up - Docksteader. Reminds
me of a delightful artist I once met who was
named Docsdotter - or some such - from Iceland. YUM YUM!
PS I did finally get access to the "pigments"
web pages. Thanks for that 'bookmark.'
DNALJM
>When in Madrid (España, that is), I remember
>going down a stairway into an underground
>chamber on the grounds of an art museum
>(not the Prado - maybe the
>Sofia) where there
>was a 'replica' of Lascaux, or one of the
>more famous caves in the Pyrenees. My thoughts
>at the time were, "A lot of money for such
>a questionable replication." The interior of
>the "cavern" had been made to resemble the
>rocks of the actual place - I guess - at least
>it resembled 'real boulders.'
>
I know that faux cave well-I lost my virginity there.
Oils are a lot nicer to work with than the plastic paints, and are proven
to last for centuries. I always leave my paint rag on a shelf or the ground so
the thinner doesn't get on my hands and I develop a sensitivity to working with
it--then I would have to use acrylics!
Jane
www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
<---- figurative art and exobiology
Erik A. Mattila
I was lucky - while at UC Davis I was able to take a course from George
Longfish on "Native American Painting." It was really unique, I think,
and it definitely is understudied. But you would be interested, given
that "Indian Painting" as we know it evolved in New Mexico - you have
the "Anthropology Painting" period, the "First Pueblo Self-Taught"
period, the second and etc. Very interesting to note the influence of
the Ashcan painters and U.of Chicago's Dorothy Dunn (The Sante Fe
Studio- prerunner to the American Indian Art Institute.) Anyway, it was
a masterpiece of an art history course, I think, despite the fact that
George isn't really that academically inclined (being a working artist).
But Docksteader was talking about earlier painting - like kiva murals
etc. He did a lot of good work, but he carried so much anthropological
bias into his interpretations it sounded silly to me. You know, this
"sacred" this or that is horseshit, in my opinion. Indians, like the
rest of humanity, liked colors because the looked good, not that red was
the color of blood and green was the color of grass or black was the
color of death etc. Well, this is one of those "crosses to bear." The
idea that so-called "primitives" lacked the ability to form conceptual
models and transfer them across technologies is absurd, and there is a
huge amount of evidence to back this up.
Dockstader, Frederick J., "Indian art in America; the arts and crafts of
the North American Indian." Greenwich, Conn., New York Graphic Society
[1961]
Dunn, Dorothy, "American Indian painting of the Southwest and Plains
areas." Albuquerque] University of New Mexico, 1968.
Penney, David W., "Native American art / David W. Penney, George C.
Longfish. [New York] : Hugh Lauter Levin Associates, c1994.
Erik
Gud E.Tushus
>Dockstader, Frederick J., "Indian art in America; the arts and crafts of
>the North American Indian." Greenwich, Conn., New York Graphic Society
>[1961]
To show you the way my mind works, I have no
capacity for recalling trivia that I've learned
over the years. It has to be something pretty
earth-shaking for me to remember it with any
sort of clarity. And not until you titled the
work, above, did I remember to go look and see
what books I actually own on the subject, and
this is one of them. I remember thinking it was
a nice "picture book" but I now wonder if I ever
bothered reading the introductory pages of text.
I'll have to browse the book again when I am in
my 'reading mode' this evening. The other two you
list 'might' be available from my library.
ITMT, I DO recall the first time I was made aware
that ceremonial "kivas" were painted with murals.
What really stunned me was learning that the
plaster used for the murals was not your usual
mud daubs but rather a stark white - very likely
gypsum hauled from the White Sands of the Tularosa
Basin (my guess - not something I learned). And
the other thing I learned is that these murals
had a finite life, being plastered over and a new
mural created for whatever purpose the murals
served in their day. As you may know, many of the
traditional rituals have survived only through
hand-me-down recounting, and some are now being
declared "tribal secrets" once again.
An aside: Kiva structures were also used as
storage bins - below ground round cache rooms.
Mostly for grain storage, I'd assume. They existed
virtually side by side with the ceremonial kivas.
Gud E.Tushus
says...
> I know that faux cave well-I lost my virginity there.
I had wondered what that un-labeled
thing in the corner was when I was there!
Was it the Virgin of Lascaux?