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Carol Ott

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Sep 6, 2001, 11:23:42 PM9/6/01
to
Hi --

I'm sorry if this isn't the right group for this.....

I'd love a critique of my paintings -- go to my website and click on the
"artwork" icon.

Thanks,

Carol
http://home.earthlink.net/~csott

Jean Pule

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Sep 7, 2001, 11:14:59 AM9/7/01
to
In article <25Xl7.1695$5r.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
cs...@earthlink.net says...

>I'm sorry if this isn't the right group for this.....

For what? Trolling or pulling our legs?

>I'd love a critique of my paintings

Sorry - I failed to see anything on your
site that would qualify as "paintings"
much less as "art." This is a joke, right?

Carol Ott

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Sep 7, 2001, 11:32:21 AM9/7/01
to
Oh sorry. I didn't know this was rec.arts.asshole.

Bye.


"Jean Pule" <jp...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3b98d...@oracle.zianet.com...

SKETCHDUDE

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Sep 7, 2001, 2:02:12 PM9/7/01
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I think some of the posters here must have grapes in their eye sockets with
their artistic snobbery.
It's a goddamn shame when art teachers feel like they have to discourage
talent because it come from a different idea from their own. Maybe what we
need is a larger map of the world, maybe that would remind us to be able to
live together in spite of our differences.

--
SKETCHDUDE
sketchdudes olde home pages
http://home.earthlink.net/~o0sketchdude0o/
(may be temporarily under reconstruction)
"Carol Ott" <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Jean Pule

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Sep 7, 2001, 7:09:13 PM9/7/01
to
In article <9M5m7.3167$d86.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
cs...@earthlink.net says...

>
>Oh sorry. I didn't know this was rec.arts.asshole.
>
>Bye.

I suspect your mommy loves having your
juvenile efforts on her refrigerator door.
If I had thought about your age being a
factor, I'd have seen the so-called "art"
differently, perhaps.

Carol Ott

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Sep 7, 2001, 7:46:22 PM9/7/01
to
And I'm sure your mommy is so proud of your manners and sparkling
personality.

Loser.

--Carol

"Jean Pule" <jp...@noemailever.com> wrote in message

news:3b994...@oracle.zianet.com...

Message has been deleted

Bob & Dale Ford

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Sep 7, 2001, 10:33:03 PM9/7/01
to
In all fairness to you, we have fights about abstraction and non subjective
work all the time. If you were a newbie here and didn't know better, sorry
for the rude reception by a fellow poster. I think they thought you were
trolling.
Dale

Bob & Dale Ford

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Sep 7, 2001, 10:37:39 PM9/7/01
to
At least I hope that is what happened.
Dale

SKETCHDUDE

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Sep 8, 2001, 12:17:45 AM9/8/01
to
Personally I too enjoyed the arrangement of the vegetables. Too bad there
aren't any professional teachers around willing to give this
talented artist some constructive critisism in the rendering of some of the
transluscent qualities of fruits & veggies.

But the Oklahoma Summer landscape was probably the strongest of the group.

In general, based on the group of works you posted, my comment would be to
keep going on the color experiments.
It's pretty obvious that you already have a strong vocabulary, so you must
enjoy playing around with colors. Keep looking
for different kinds of contrasts. When working with transparency, try to
contrast it with opacity and then strike a balance between the two.
Also, shadows or values. Every color has a value. It's the shadows, or
darkness of the colors that bring to your compositions the
opprotunity for illusionistic effects such as atmosphere and volume of forms
in space. A good experiment when working with a
single color is to ask simply, how dark can I mix this color so that it
still retains its identity as a hue? It can be suprising to see the
range of color you can achieve with just a couple yellows and a tube of
black.
Keep going

sketchdude

"Marilyn Welch" <wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.1010907172634.14660A-100000@vtn1...
> I liked Carol's work and her website,
> especially Oklahoma Summer and 13.
> Fresh, expressive and original work.
>
> One thing an art teacher or mentor should not do
> is try to kill the enthusiasm of an earnest artist.
> It just makes the 'teacher' look like an old geezer
> and does nothing for the student.
>
> Marilyn

RBrac53660

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Sep 8, 2001, 2:33:05 AM9/8/01
to
Carol'

R/U sometimes in alt.graphics.photoshop?
or alt.graphics?

Any wya I like your paintings and I think you should continue working, but you
do need to work.


www.geocities.com/winston53660/wbphotog.html

RBrac53660

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Sep 8, 2001, 2:35:23 AM9/8/01
to
>> In all fairness to you, we have fights about abstraction and non subjective
>> work all the time.

And it is a idiots delight. ;)


www.geocities.com/winston53660/wbphotog.html

Jean Pule

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Sep 8, 2001, 10:31:29 AM9/8/01
to
In article <i%cm7.3500$5r.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
cs...@earthlink.net says...

>
>And I'm sure your mommy is so proud of your manners and sparkling
>personality.

You came here asking for a "critique" of your
work, and I gave you my reaction to what
appeared to me to be some sort of juvenile
joke.

I should certainly know better by now than to respond
to anyone asking for a "critique" since what
that usually means is "please look at my exceptional
work and tell me how wonderful it is!"

And then when they learn what others think
they are too petty to take the criticism for
what it is - "CRITICISM." If you want praise,
go find your mother or someone who wants to
spare your feelings. And grow up before trying
to mingle with adults in what is normally an
adult forum. I keep forgetting that anyone of
any age can and probably does post here. I'll
do my best to factor in age in the future.


Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 10:52:04 AM9/8/01
to
Thank you so much for the encouragement. It's funny to see that the one
painting that I like the *least* seems to be the favourite. That always
happens..... ;-)

--Carol

"SKETCHDUDE" <o0sketc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:JZgm7.3890$5r.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 10:52:08 AM9/8/01
to
That's what I don't understand....trolling for what? I'm not selling
anything, and I could care less about getting hits or visitors to my
website. I asked a question (politely, too) and while I understand there
are jerks everywhere you go......I certainly didn't expect rudeness.
Perhaps I should lower my standards next time.

--Carol

"Bob & Dale Ford" <bdf...@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B99835F...@mb.sympatico.ca...

Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 10:52:11 AM9/8/01
to
No -- I usually go to alt.design.graphics, since I am a commercial artist by
trade.

--Carol

"RBrac53660" <rbrac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010908023305...@mb-fx.aol.com...

Xena

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Sep 8, 2001, 1:28:25 PM9/8/01
to

Carol Ott wrote:

> No -- I usually go to alt.design.graphics, since I am a commercial artist by
> trade.
>

Then get a grip when you think rec.arts.FINE is going to applaude. Graphic art
is NOT fine art.

Jean Pule was a bit harsh but then again, you were only looking for positive
feedback, correct?

Learn to roll with the punches and to pay your dues. Many of us here are very
jaded because the internet produces far too many people who get a program and
decide they are artists.

Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 8, 2001, 4:25:49 PM9/8/01
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Xena <nom...@never.com> wrote in message
news:9ndkfp$6g7$0...@206.97.57.65...

>
> Then get a grip when you think rec.arts.FINE is going to applaude.
Graphic art
> is NOT fine art.
>
Never?


--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Who has custard with custard creams?
Major Molesworth Major Rtd. G&T&Bar


Chris

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Sep 8, 2001, 4:55:25 PM9/8/01
to

Carol Ott wrote:
>
> That's what I don't understand....trolling for what?

Attention :). Ever have a 3 year old in the house? It's much the same
with Jean-or-whatever-his name-is-this-week. Just agree with him, pat
him on the head, and send him on his way....

Cheers;

Chris

Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 5:02:19 PM9/8/01
to
No, I wasn't looking for only positive feedback. On the other hand, I
wasn't looking for sarcastic remarks and nastiness. Do you people talk to
everyone with rudeness, or just new people?

And just for the record, paying my dues doesn't entail taking crap off of
little snots who need to get out once in a while. If you have something
constructive to say, fine. Otherwise, move along and find someone else to
attack.

--Carol

"Xena" <nom...@never.com> wrote in message news:9ndkfp$6g7$0...@206.97.57.65...
>
>

Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 5:03:32 PM9/8/01
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And I'm so sure Milton Glaser and Paul Rand would agree with that
short-sighted statement. HA. Maybe that's why *they're* famous, and the
one who made that idiotic statement is still nowhere.

--Carol

"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:9ndv3i$p50$4...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...

Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 5:06:33 PM9/8/01
to
Oh please. Attention? I get plenty of that.

Jesus Christ -- this is ridiculous. I came to this group because I
mistakenly thought that you all could give me some insight and constructive
criticism. Instead, I've been insulted and spoken to as though I'm 13. So
much for your professionalism.

Well never mind then. Go on prattling on about abstracts, impressionism,
and blah blah blah. I, on the other hand, will be having fun. Remember
fun? Sounds like you people could use a little.

--Carol

"Chris" <bro...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B9A8706...@ns.sympatico.ca...

Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 8, 2001, 5:23:32 PM9/8/01
to

Carol Ott <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:EIvm7.6018$d86.4...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> And I'm so sure Milton Glaser and Paul Rand would agree with that
> short-sighted statement. HA. Maybe that's why *they're* famous, and
the
> one who made that idiotic statement is still nowhere.
>
Well, Carol, that wasn't a statement, it was a question. If you have an
answer to it, why not give it?

Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 8, 2001, 5:24:42 PM9/8/01
to

Carol Ott <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tLvm7.6020$d86.4...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> Oh please. Attention? I get plenty of that.
>
> Jesus Christ -- this is ridiculous. I came to this group because I
> mistakenly thought that you all could give me some insight and
constructive
> criticism. Instead, I've been insulted and spoken to as though I'm
13. So
> much for your professionalism.
>
Don't be so cross. If you really want a critique I will look at your
work now - I haven't yet - and tell you what I think.

Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 8, 2001, 5:35:02 PM9/8/01
to

Carol Ott <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:25Xl7.1695$5r.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> Hi --
>
> I'm sorry if this isn't the right group for this.....
>
> I'd love a critique of my paintings -- go to my website and click on
the
> "artwork" icon.
>
I like the layout of your site - you have put a lot of effort into it
and it works.

Looking at your paintings.

Ten is monochrome squares and, in this format is fairly uninteresting -
it might be a nice wall hanging in reality.

Twelve is bland and uninteresting.

Daybreak is nice and shows some promise. I think more detail - or some
figure in the foreground would help.

Thirteen, the still life, is nice but naive. I think you should explore
the texture of the subject more. Try acrylic - water-colour is very
difficult in making this sort of picture work.

Oklahoma is good. It has a good secret feel about it. Looking out of the
cave at the distance is good framing. A sense of mystery is there and
the sunrise/sunset colours are well portrayed. An interesting picture -
some good detail too.

Heatstroke is too decorative, not bad colours, but it doesn't say
anything.

Mood2 is very derivative. It might have raised eyebrows in 1890, but it
says nothing today.

Tangerine might be OK as a wall panel in an office.

Fourteen is poor composition. If you want us to see the stars, or the
sky or something you have to arrange it. It has no focus or lead in and
no atmosphere. It looks as if you weren't really trying here.

So, does that help?

Look at my site. http://www.psyche.demon.co.uk and let me know what you
think of my pictures.

Regards,
Peter

SKETCHDUDE

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Sep 8, 2001, 5:51:47 PM9/8/01
to

>Graphic art
> is NOT fine art.

brain fart.

>Many of us here are very
> jaded because the internet produces far too many >people who get a program
and
> decide they are artists.

SHEW! Lay off the mental beans, dude.
Did it ever occur to you that the more
amatures who practice art,
with all of their pretentions
and thier clumsiness are likely to go
looking for help from more
experienced artists such as yourself?
Doesn't that create honest to goodness
interest in your own work?


--
SKETCHDUDE
http://home.earthlink.net/~o0sketchdude0o/

Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 8, 2001, 6:39:36 PM9/8/01
to

SKETCHDUDE <o0sketc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Tpwm7.6289$5r.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

>
> >Graphic art
> > is NOT fine art.
>
> brain fart.
>
Well, if it is then why not explain yourself rather than making a silly
criticism?

>
> >Many of us here are very
> > jaded because the internet produces far too many >people who get a
program
> and
> > decide they are artists.
>
> SHEW! Lay off the mental beans, dude.
> Did it ever occur to you that the more
> amatures who practice art,
> with all of their pretentions
> and thier clumsiness are likely to go
> looking for help from more
> experienced artists such as yourself?
> Doesn't that create honest to goodness
> interest in your own work?
>
What are the pretentions of amateurs?

How is their apparent clumsiness different from that of 'professionals'?

Message has been deleted

Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 8, 2001, 7:21:51 PM9/8/01
to

Marilyn Welch <wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.1010908161806.1069A-100000@vtn1...
> Carol,
>
> Try looking up Elizabeth Blackadder, the Scottish painter.
> She has a modernist approach to watercolour painting and
> she sets up some really original compositions in her work.
> It seems to me you might be going in that direction.
>
That is a kind suggestion. No doubt she isn't related to the other
Blackadder!?

Composition is an interesting question when it comes to abstraction. Do
you think that there are any 'rules'?

Jean Pule

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Sep 8, 2001, 8:41:41 PM9/8/01
to
In article <vgqm7.4983$5r.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
cs...@earthlink.net says...

>
>I am a commercial artist by
>trade.

That's what your web site claims too.
I wonder how many reading your self-promotion
would hire you based on your web site
presentation? Good luck with your future.
You're going to need it, IMHO. As for
myself, I will return to my rule, broken in
this case, of ignoring all requests for
"critiques" by new posters to this forum,
and let others take the lead in that regard.
Don't know why I got suckered this time.


Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 8:24:57 PM9/8/01
to
You pose an interesting question -- one that I have been wondering about for
a while. I've hesitated studying other artists up to this point, because I
wanted to develop a style that was uniquely my own -- I didn't want to
pilfer someone else's style (whether conciously or unconciously).

In so far as "rules", I believe there has to be some in any style, abstract
or not. Colour composition and the placement of shapes -- doesn't there
have to be a certain cohesion? A certain "right" fit? Maybe the rules are
placed by the artist, and not the person viewing the art.

Make any sense at all?

--Carol

"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message

news:9ne9bl$ris$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...

Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 8:34:14 PM9/8/01
to
That's exactly the kind of critique I was looking for -- something a little
more in-depth than "you suck". Thank you so much for your insight. I've
been struggling with what direction I want to follow.....hence my request
for a critique from fine arts people.

As for your own work, I would have to say that my two favourites are "Pan"
and "Bombed House With Vase". Some of the paintings are
disturbing.....haunting. Pan was both disturbing and amusing. Bombed House
was just a riot of colour that excited me.

The website needs a bit of work, though. I saw some of your
paintings/drawings at the bottom, and I wasn't sure if you meant for them to
be pixelated.....if you need a little advice, please don't hesitate to ask.

--Carol


"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message

news:9ne33d$7q8$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...

keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com)

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Sep 8, 2001, 8:37:29 PM9/8/01
to
Hi Carol:

It is very difficult to evaluate work on
the web and I don't usually do it but
I'll make an exception.
1) Your work is not dated so it is
difficult for me to see a trend over
time.
2) I have difficulty sensing your
overall aesthetic sense. I can't get a
clear grasp of your space construction
method especially in your more
geometrical works.

You may want to consider taking a look
at a book on Ben Nicholson's works (a
British artist). He did very interesting
work on space construction using urban
colours. Some of your geometrics are
similar except you use more colour. But
he does have a definite aesthetic
approach, which I think you should look
for.

I agree with your evaluation of
'Oklahoma Summer landscape", I would not
consider it one of your best.

take care: keith

Carol Ott wrote:
>
> Hi --
>
> I'm sorry if this isn't the right group for this.....
>
> I'd love a critique of my paintings -- go to my website and click on the
> "artwork" icon.
>

> Thanks,
>
> Carol
> http://home.earthlink.net/~csott

vcard.vcf

Carol Ott

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Sep 8, 2001, 8:38:55 PM9/8/01
to
I particularly like this piece:
http://www.boltonmuseums.org.uk/blackadd.htm

Thank you for the suggestion -- I am going to try and find more of her work.

--Carol

"Marilyn Welch" <wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.1010908161806.1069A-100000@vtn1...
> Carol,
>
> Try looking up Elizabeth Blackadder, the Scottish painter.
> She has a modernist approach to watercolour painting and
> she sets up some really original compositions in her work.
> It seems to me you might be going in that direction.
>

> A Google search should bring up some digital samples of her
> work. Good luck.
>
> Marilyn
>
>
>
>

Tim Simmons

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Sep 8, 2001, 11:48:00 PM9/8/01
to

"Jean Pule" <jp...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3b9a1...@oracle.zianet.com...

> In article <i%cm7.3500$5r.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> cs...@earthlink.net says...
> >
> >And I'm sure your mommy is so proud of your manners and sparkling
> >personality.
>
> You came here asking for a "critique" of your
> work, and I gave you my reaction to what
> appeared to me to be some sort of juvenile
> joke.
>
> I should certainly know better by now than to respond
> to anyone asking for a "critique" since what
> that usually means is "please look at my exceptional
> work and tell me how wonderful it is!"
>
> And then when they learn what others think
> they are too petty to take the criticism for
> what it is - "CRITICISM."

Tim S.:

Webster's defines it as this.

Main Entry: crit·i·cism
Pronunciation: 'kri-t&-"si-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1607
1 a : the act of criticizing usually unfavorably b : a critical observation
or remark c : CRITIQUE
2 : the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature


So, giving a critique doesn't necessarily entail only negative observations
and your original reply was nowhere close to an evaluation. It was an
insult.

Jean:


If you want praise,
> go find your mother or someone who wants to
> spare your feelings. And grow up before trying
> to mingle with adults in what is normally an
> adult forum. I keep forgetting that anyone of
> any age can and probably does post here. I'll
> do my best to factor in age in the future.
>

Tim S.:

Does anyone else find it odd that J.P., although insinuating that the art in
question had zero merit whatsoever, did not provide any support for this
assertion? Usually a critique contains REASONS why it is under par.

So, why waste time flaming when you could either reply with your question of
age (so the critic isn't unduly harsh) or just critique it by your own
standards? Maybe you were having a rough day.

Tim


Chris

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Sep 8, 2001, 11:56:42 PM9/8/01
to
My apologies Carol; I meant the trolling part for Jean, not for you. I
typed that with my brain (obviously) disengaged...

Regrets;

Chris

Tim Simmons

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Sep 9, 2001, 12:02:48 AM9/9/01
to

"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:9ne33d$7q8$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>

Tim S.:

I liked some of your paintings but your shark doesn't look like a shark.
More like an eel. Where's his snout?

Did you use any florescent colors? Some look very florescent.

Tim


Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 9, 2001, 3:31:34 AM9/9/01
to

Carol Ott <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tFym7.6314$d86.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> You pose an interesting question -- one that I have been wondering
about for
> a while. I've hesitated studying other artists up to this point,
because I
> wanted to develop a style that was uniquely my own -- I didn't want to
> pilfer someone else's style (whether conciously or unconciously).
>
I don't think that with images as ubiquitous as they are these days that
it is possible to avoid such exposure.

>
> In so far as "rules", I believe there has to be some in any style,
abstract
> or not. Colour composition and the placement of shapes -- doesn't
there
> have to be a certain cohesion? A certain "right" fit? Maybe the
rules are
> placed by the artist, and not the person viewing the art.
>
If it is any good, yes, of course.

Peter H.M. Brooks

unread,
Sep 9, 2001, 3:33:36 AM9/9/01
to

Carol Ott <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aOym7.6487$5r.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> That's exactly the kind of critique I was looking for -- something a
little
> more in-depth than "you suck". Thank you so much for your insight.
I've
> been struggling with what direction I want to follow.....hence my
request
> for a critique from fine arts people.
>
> As for your own work, I would have to say that my two favourites are
"Pan"
> and "Bombed House With Vase". Some of the paintings are
> disturbing.....haunting. Pan was both disturbing and amusing. Bombed
House
> was just a riot of colour that excited me.
>
Thank you. Those are interesting comments. I like the 'Bombed House' but
my wife hates it because of the 'bad' perspective.

>
> The website needs a bit of work, though. I saw some of your
> paintings/drawings at the bottom, and I wasn't sure if you meant for
them to
> be pixelated.....if you need a little advice, please don't hesitate to
ask.
>
Thank you, yes, I know it needs work. I reduced the loading time a while
ago and some pictures went west as a result. I have it on my to-do list
to redo the site entirely, but I have a long to-do list!

Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 9, 2001, 3:34:56 AM9/9/01
to

Tim Simmons <tim...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:IRBm7.6909$d86.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

>
> I liked some of your paintings but your shark doesn't look like a
shark.
> More like an eel. Where's his snout?
>
Actually I discussed this on a marine biology group and they came to the
conclusion that it is a cross between an Orca and a Great White shark.

>
> Did you use any florescent colors? Some look very florescent.
>
No, none at all. Thank you, though, that was an intended effect.

Xena

unread,
Sep 9, 2001, 4:26:22 AM9/9/01
to

Carol Ott wrote:

> No, I wasn't looking for only positive feedback. On the other hand, I
> wasn't looking for sarcastic remarks and nastiness. Do you people talk to
> everyone with rudeness, or just new people?

People here talk with rudeness to anyone. Go to any newsgroup and you'll find
the same. Yes, Jean Pule was rude, but your bitchiness equals his any day.

>
>
> And just for the record, paying my dues doesn't entail taking crap off of
> little snots who need to get out once in a while. If you have something
> constructive to say, fine. Otherwise, move along and find someone else to
> attack.
>
> --Carol
>

You haven't got a chance, honey.


Xena

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Sep 9, 2001, 4:29:54 AM9/9/01
to

SKETCHDUDE wrote:

>
> brain fart.

Wow! I guess you certainly put me in my place.


>
>
> snip


>
> SHEW! Lay off the mental beans, dude.
> Did it ever occur to you that the more
> amatures who practice art,
> with all of their pretentions
> and thier clumsiness are likely to go
> looking for help from more
> experienced artists such as yourself?
> Doesn't that create honest to goodness
> interest in your own work?

I hate to burst your bubble but there is no shortage of students or artists.
Everyone and their grandmother is one or the other these days.


Xena

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Sep 9, 2001, 4:41:59 AM9/9/01
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Carol Ott wrote:

> That's exactly the kind of critique I was looking for -- something a little
> more in-depth than "you suck". Thank you so much for your insight. I've
> been struggling with what direction I want to follow.....hence my request
> for a critique from fine arts people.
>

Any newsgroup will advise you to read posts for a week or two and then to
gradually become part of the group. You are very silly. You received one rude
response and have posted rebuttals for days now. How can you be an artist and
exhibit your work? Do you think any artist has nothing but fans? There will be
other artists, critics and arts professionals that will give harsh criticism to
anyone at any level and if you can't take the heat get out of the studio.

You have 10 paintings on your website? This is a body of work? What dimensions?
Medium?

There are people here at all levels so don't expect the same responses you'd
received from friends and family. Your website is very nicely designed but the
art is not even prominent as you "Things I hate" List. Make some more art. READ
and LEARN about art and artists or no one will take you seriously. Of course
people hate to make art that is a copy of another artist but learning about
artists won't turn you into a clone, it will give you knowledge and so far that
seems to be lacking from both your posts and your site.

Also, you should learn how to write an artist's statement and include it. There
is more about your life then about art.

PS. No resume? Never exhibited?

Like Jean Pule, I rarely look at the "look at my artwork" postings. I won't
repeat this error. It was NOT worth the trip.

Carol Ott

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Sep 9, 2001, 9:01:20 AM9/9/01
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No problem. I just wondered exactly what I was trolling for....

Sometimes people do submit their websites under the guise of wanting a
critique -- when all they really want is "hits". Which to me is completely
silly, when it's a personal website and has no commercial value whatsoever.

--Carol

"Chris" <bro...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3B9AE9BC...@ns.sympatico.ca...

Carol Ott

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Sep 9, 2001, 9:03:24 AM9/9/01
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And that's what I hope to be someday -- good.

--Carol

"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message

news:9nf61s$3mb$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...

Carol Ott

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Sep 9, 2001, 9:05:44 AM9/9/01
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If you can download a trial copy of Fireworks 4 from Macromedia, I think
you'll like the way it optimizes images for the web. You don't necessarily
have to sacrifice quality for a quick load time. The trial version of
Fireworks is fully-functional and it's good for 30 days. I ended up buying
it as a result of the Optimization/Preview feature.

--Carol

"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message

news:9nf65n$3n9$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...

Carol Ott

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Sep 9, 2001, 9:07:12 AM9/9/01
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Well fine then. I look forward to *not* hearing from you again.

--Carol

"Xena" <nom...@never.com> wrote in message news:9nfa0n$ckd$0...@206.97.57.24...

SKETCHDUDE

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Sep 9, 2001, 9:17:36 AM9/9/01
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"Xena" <nom...@never.com> wrote in message news:9nf9a2$b82$0...@206.97.57.24...
In fact, you made my day.
:)

--
SKETCHDUDE
http://home.earthlink.net/~o0sketchdude0o/


Peter H.M. Brooks

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Sep 9, 2001, 9:36:24 AM9/9/01
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Carol Ott <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:IOJm7.7387$5r.6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> If you can download a trial copy of Fireworks 4 from Macromedia, I
think
> you'll like the way it optimizes images for the web. You don't
necessarily
> have to sacrifice quality for a quick load time. The trial version of
> Fireworks is fully-functional and it's good for 30 days. I ended up
buying
> it as a result of the Optimization/Preview feature.
>
Thank you for the tip, I shall look into it.

Carol Ott

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Sep 9, 2001, 7:06:42 PM9/9/01
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Let me know if you need any help with it -- the interface isn't as intuitive
as it should be.

--Carol

"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message

news:9nfrer$2j$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...

Bob & Dale Ford

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Sep 9, 2001, 11:31:56 PM9/9/01
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Andrew D

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Sep 9, 2001, 11:38:20 PM9/9/01
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In article <3b98d...@oracle.zianet.com>, jp...@noemailever.com (Jean
Pule) wrote:

+In article <25Xl7.1695$5r.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
+cs...@earthlink.net says...
+
+>I'm sorry if this isn't the right group for this.....
+
+For what? Trolling or pulling our legs?
+
+>I'd love a critique of my paintings
+
+Sorry - I failed to see anything on your
+site that would qualify as "paintings"
+much less as "art." This is a joke, right?

Now I'm officially confused.

Wasn't it you who wrote:
++That's so true for most of today's
++"difficult" art, but the average
++dullard still gets their appreciation
++from trite and easily recognized subject
++matter. I agree it takes a greater
++intellect - as well as the open mind -
++to appreciate the "difficult" stuff.

So much for open-mindedness.

Andy D.

"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"

Bob & Dale Ford

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Sep 9, 2001, 11:38:26 PM9/9/01
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Peter you are absolutely right there is no way one can avoid being influenced
by other artists whether we actively seek out their work or not. We do not
create in a vacuum. We are influenced by all we see and we are constantly
bombarded by images.

Also there is no use in re inventing the wheel. Seek out other artists whose
work you admire. Study art history. Your style is already influenced whether
you recognize it or not.
Dale

Andrew D

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Sep 9, 2001, 11:48:55 PM9/9/01
to
In article <9ndkfp$6g7$0...@206.97.57.65>, Xena <nom...@never.com> wrote:

+Carol Ott wrote:
+
+> No -- I usually go to alt.design.graphics, since I am a commercial artist by
+> trade.
+>
+
+Then get a grip when you think rec.arts.FINE is going to applaude. Graphic art
+is NOT fine art.
+
+Jean Pule was a bit harsh but then again, you were only looking for positive
+feedback, correct?
+
+Learn to roll with the punches and to pay your dues. Many of us here are very
+jaded because the internet produces far too many people who get a program and
+decide they are artists.

Many of us here are jaded because art today seems to be about doing the
least possible with as little skill or foresight as one can muster, then
hiring a great publicist to market the work at great expense to the most
gullible curator.

After decades of seeing museums hanging "canvases" covered in almost
anything an "artist" could throw at them, I find it hard to believe
software is going to make art seem easier or more accessible to anyone.

Jean Pule

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Sep 10, 2001, 11:02:50 AM9/10/01
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In article <right-10090...@i165-133.nv.iinet.net.au>,
right@the_end.of.my_tether says...

>So much for open-mindedness.

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone
more open-minded than I am. My taste
in art is VERY eclectic. But you
need to look closely at this person's
"invitation" to "critique" and what
is said about the very minimal number
of "art works" on the web site. MOST
of them are DIGITAL IMAGES (well, in
fact all are) that were created from
scratch using minimal computer skills
that any child could do better, IMHO!
And that's why I reacted the way I did.
To call these minimal efforts "art work"
is a bit of a stretch, IMHO! But others
disagree and that's fine - disagreement
is nothing new to this forum.


SKETCHDUDE

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Sep 10, 2001, 3:58:04 PM9/10/01
to
You just hit on a valid critisism of the site design, which is important for
professionals, especially.
I think the size and cut of the thumnails give a misleading impression with
the tiny size. My first visit, after opening a couple of windows, was that
it was all expressionist compositions.
It's good to have have the element of surprise in a composition, but not in
presenting your works in a portfolio online.

--
SKETCHDUDE
http://home.earthlink.net/~o0sketchdude0o/

"Jean Pule" <jp...@noemailever.com> wrote in message

news:3b9cc...@oracle.zianet.com...

Carol Ott

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Sep 10, 2001, 5:17:12 PM9/10/01
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Actually, over half of them aren't digital -- they were done with
traditional art materials. The only "digital" aspect of them is that they
were either scanned directly, or photographed and scanned for the web. Six
are traditional paints, and five are digital.

As far as my computer skills go, I think mine can go head to head with
anyone here. I've been doing this for a long time (working with computers
and digital art).

--Carol

"SKETCHDUDE" <o0sketc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gX8n7.12071$d86.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

andrew

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Sep 10, 2001, 7:42:29 PM9/10/01
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Even me?

andrew

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Sep 10, 2001, 7:42:58 PM9/10/01
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Carol Ott

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Sep 10, 2001, 9:15:41 PM9/10/01
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If you are who I think you are, *especially* you. Now get back over to the
other group where you belong. ;-)

--Carol

"andrew" <and...@no.mail> wrote in message news:3B9D4F8E...@no.mail...

Andrew D

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Sep 11, 2001, 1:02:31 AM9/11/01
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In article <3b9cc...@oracle.zianet.com>, jp...@noemailever.com (Jean
Pule) wrote:

+In article <right-10090...@i165-133.nv.iinet.net.au>,
+right@the_end.of.my_tether says...
+
+>So much for open-mindedness.
+
+You'll be hard pressed to find anyone
+more open-minded than I am. My taste
+in art is VERY eclectic. But you
+need to look closely at this person's
+"invitation" to "critique" and what
+is said about the very minimal number
+of "art works" on the web site. MOST
+of them are DIGITAL IMAGES (well, in
+fact all are) that were created from
+scratch using minimal computer skills
+that any child could do better, IMHO!

So you're not a fan of Pollock, Rothko and a vast array of other so-called
"artists" who also produce works that would easily be copied by any child
who was allowed near the paint shed?

[snip]

Jean Pule

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Sep 11, 2001, 11:06:40 AM9/11/01
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In article <right-11090...@i165-036.nv.iinet.net.au>,
right@the_end.of.my_tether says...


>So you're not a fan of Pollock, Rothko and a vast array of other so-called
>"artists" who also produce works that would easily be copied by any child
>who was allowed near the paint shed?

I am in indeed. And to tell you why would
require me to reinvent art criticism of
the past fifty years. If you can't understand
the implications of these artists on the
larger world of art, then you have a problem,
not me.

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