Tyvek: Dye, Print, connect?
Scott Van Note
I want to print a image 40' X 40'. The paper-like/cloth-like material
"Tyvek" patented by DuPont in 1966 seems ideal because of its weight,
strength, ability to be printed on, and ability to create strong seams.
I note these properties from clean room overgarments and old 5-1/4"
floppy sleeves.
By chance has anyone worked with this stuff or have pointers to where I
can find out what ink works, how to make those seams, source for a 24" X
1000' roll, etc.?
Or about some other cloth and paper like material that 400 2' square
sections can be run through an ink jet plotter and then assembled.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Van Note * Undergraduate in Material Sciences and Fine Art ASU
In the aether at sco...@crl.com, On the earth in Tempe Arizona, USA
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Benny Shaboy
yards. I don't know anyone who has worked with it as an art material,
but would be interested in what you find out. You can call your nearest
DuPont representative for a spec sheet, and probably much of the
technical info you seek.
--Benny Shaboy
William O. Barrett
The standard roll of Tyvek is 9' by 100' so putting it through a printer
will require lots of cutting. It is quite strong, so if you can find a
way to print out and piece it together, I should imagine it would handle
40" by 40' all right.
Andrew Werby
sco...@crl.com (Scott Van Note) wrote:
>
>I want to print a image 40' X 40'. The paper-like/cloth-like material
>"Tyvek" patented by DuPont in 1966 seems ideal because of its weight,
>strength, ability to be printed on, and ability to create strong seams.
>
>I note these properties from clean room overgarments and old 5-1/4"
>floppy sleeves.
>
>By chance has anyone worked with this stuff or have pointers to where I
>can find out what ink works, how to make those seams, source for a 24" X
>1000' roll, etc.?
>
>
>Or about some other cloth and paper like material that 400 2' square
>sections can be run through an ink jet plotter and then assembled.
[Tyvek envelopes are available at stationary stores. They might serve to
prove the concept before you invest in the giant roll of the stuff.]
Andrew Werby - United Artworks
Charles Eicher
sco...@crl.com (Scott Van Note) wrote:
>
>I want to print a image 40' X 40'. The paper-like/cloth-like material
>"Tyvek" patented by DuPont in 1966 seems ideal because of its weight,
>strength, ability to be printed on, and ability to create strong seams.
>
>I note these properties from clean room overgarments and old 5-1/4"
>floppy sleeves.
>
>By chance has anyone worked with this stuff or have pointers to where I
>can find out what ink works, how to make those seams, source for a 24" X
>1000' roll, etc.?
>
>Or about some other cloth and paper like material that 400 2' square
>sections can be run through an ink jet plotter and then assembled.
Actually, I have a bit of experience with Tyvek. I once had a customer
bring in some samples of Tyvek and asked me to print on them in my IRIS
inkjet. Tyvek is so water-repellent that the ink just flew off of the
paper, off the spinning drum, all over the inside of the printer. You
cannot get ANY water-based pigments to stick to Tyvek. Don't even THINK of
trying to print ink-jet prints on tyvek.
You can purchase Tyvek in many different colors from commercial paper
sources. The color is incorporated into the plastic during manufacture. It
is used in commercial printing, I don't know what they do to make the ink
stick when its printed in offset printing presses. You can also buy white
Tyvek sheets from some art supply stores. A friend of mine showed me a
catalog from a NYC art supply shop that sells tyvek, but I've forgotten the
name. Note, there are different types of tyvek, the kind you find in FedEx
envelopes and clean-room garments usually have long recycled fibers in it,
making it resistant to rips. This makes it quite unsuitable for artistic
purposes, if you draw on it, the fibers tear loose from the paper. The
Tyvek you buy from a paper seller usually is just pure plastic.
I have tried dozens of dry media on Tyvek, and they just don't stick. You
can't even write on it with a Magic Marker or Sharpie pen, and that will
write on almost anything, even glass. Waxy crayons work somewhat, but the
tyvek surface is so slick, virtually none of the pigment rubs off the
crayon. It just isn't abrasive enough. Most times, after finishing a
drawing, I would pick it up, and all the pigment would just fall off the
sheet, leaving a very faint impression.
In short, Tyvek has some really cool properties as paper, but I worked and
worked, and just couldn't do anything with it. If anyone has found
something that sticks to it, dry media, wet, etc, please let me know (via
email preferably).
----------------
Charles Eicher
cei...@inav.net
----------------
Tupelo6220
<ceicher-ya0230600...@news.inav.net>
sco...@crl.com (Scott Van Note) wrote:
>
>>I want to print a image 40' X 40'. The paper-like/cloth-like material
>>"Tyvek" patented by DuPont in 1966 seems ideal because of its weight,
>>strength, ability to be printed on, and ability to create strong seams.
>>
>>By chance has anyone worked with this stuff or have pointers to where I
>>can find out what ink works, how to make those seams, source for a 24" X
>>1000' roll, etc.?
>Actually, I have a bit of experience with Tyvek. I once had a customer
>bring in some samples of Tyvek and asked me to print on them in my IRIS
>inkjet. Tyvek is so water-repellent that the ink just flew off of the
>paper, off the spinning drum, all over the inside of the printer. You
>cannot get ANY water-based pigments to stick to Tyvek. Don't even THINK
of
>trying to print ink-jet prints on tyvek.
>
>In short, Tyvek has some really cool properties as paper, but I worked
and
>worked, and just couldn't do anything with it. If anyone has found
>something that sticks to it, dry media, wet, etc, please let me know (via
>email preferably).
>
>----------------
> Charles Eicher
>cei...@inav.net
>----------------
Oh my God, that was like putting out a match in gasoline. That was so
stupid. I've never heard of anything so stupid. Tyvek is water repellant.
The Iris inks are water. I can't believe you are actually ALLOWED to work
with an Iris printer. Does your boss know you did this? And you still work
there? Charles, you should take the training class from Scitex because
they teach you all the basics of how to use the Iris printers. Its really
great. I got to go before I started my job. Its really good, because they
teach you all about how to keep it clean, and use the IQ and what to do,
and more important for you // WHAT NOT TO DO!!!
And PLEASE don't post your experience about this stuff anymore or
your boss will fire you for being a jerk. You make me laugh though. <lol>
<giggle>
Scott, I work in the Iris department of a large printing plant. I'm
only been doing it 4 months and figured this one out in less than a week.
I'm not an Einstein or anything, but I'm not a complete idiot like Charles
either. I called Iris Graphics, who makes the printers we have. Someone
there named Peter told me right away about Communicolor who sells coatings
for Tyvek and other water repellant materials like Tyvek or even plastic.
We got a setup and I was the one who figured it out. And now we do Tyvek
envelopes with the Iris as a mock up prior to printing large runs for our
trade customers. I got Employee Of The Week my first month! And I had just
started there. No one has ever done that. There is even this guy who has
been there 27 years and he told me he has never been Employee Of The Week.
I really cracked up when I read Charles reply to you because he says
"Oh yeah I have all this experience in that" and then he proceeds to tell
you what a complete stupid idiot he is. <lol> Its so cute because I've
never seen someone all by themselves make such a fool of themselves.
Charles, I just think that its a waste to post such a long reply when you
don't really know anything about someone's serious request for info.
You're not being helpful.
Scott, 1800 947-4710 is the number that the Scitex training guy gave
me for Iris Graphics. They're in Boston or New England I think and Peter
is the guy you want to speak to for things like this. He will know who can
answer your questions. Good Luck!
Maybe its just me, but I think Charles is kidding us or something,
because he say "email me" at the end of his reply. What a lonely boy.
Naughty naughty Charles. I may send you a little ol' email of my hot Tyvek
pointers. Isn't that what you REALLY want??? <giggle>
** ** **** ** **
Mississippi Art Lady
aka. Susan K.
Tupelo6220
** ** **** ** **
"You can get anything you want,
if you're willing to work hard"
-my mama
DLancia
\You cannot get ANY water-based pigments to stick to \Tyvek.
Untrue - Acrylics stick just fine.
Dianne Lancia Irvine
Andrew Werby
tupel...@aol.com (Tupelo6220) wrote:
[Abusive rambling snipped]
I called Iris Graphics, who makes the printers we have. Someone
>there named Peter told me right away about Communicolor who sells coatings
>for Tyvek and other water repellant materials like Tyvek or even plastic.
[Self-aggrandizement and more abuse snipped]
[So do you have a number for Communicolor, any advice on how to apply
their coatings, and information about their pricing, or are you mostly
interested in flinging mud and blowing your own horn?]
Kajojacobs
In article <50r753$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, tupel...@aol.com
(Tupelo6220) Susan K. writes:
> I got Employee Of The Week my first month! And I had just
>started there. No one has ever done that. There is even this guy who has
>been there 27 years and he told me he has never been Employee Of The
Week.
>
> I really cracked up when I read Charles reply to you because he says
>"Oh yeah I have all this experience in that" and then he proceeds to tell
>you what a complete stupid idiot he is. <lol> Its so cute because I've
>never seen someone all by themselves make such a fool of themselves.
==========
Susan, I wonder if they also give an award for Charm and Humility - you
might want to look into a course at the local community center before
applying for it.
~Karen Jacobs~
Charles Eicher
> stupid. I've never heard of anything so stupid. Tyvek is water repellant.
> The Iris inks are water. I can't believe you are actually ALLOWED to work
> with an Iris printer. Does your boss know you did this?
Actually, my boss FORCED me to do this, against my better judgement.
> Charles, you should take the training class from Scitex because
> they teach you all the basics of how to use the Iris printers. Its really
> great. I got to go before I started my job. Its really good, because they
> teach you all about how to keep it clean, and use the IQ and what to do,
> and more important for you // WHAT NOT TO DO!!!
I am glad that you enjoyed the Scitex training class. I hope you enjoyed
learning the techniques that I taught Scitex. It is due to research by
people like me, in the field, doing experimental work, that you are able to
learn what NOT to do.
> I really cracked up when I read Charles reply to you because he says
>"Oh yeah I have all this experience in that" and then he proceeds to tell
>you what a complete stupid idiot he is. <lol> Its so cute because I've
>never seen someone all by themselves make such a fool of themselves.
Look in a mirror lately?
Um, excuse me, miss Susan, but this was a long time ago, I was in the IRIS
Beta program, I operated one of the first 5 units in the US, it wasn't in
general use at that time, and I taught the Scitex techs how to use their
units. I wrote the book, miss susan. I hope you enjoyed learning it, 'by
the book'. You're welcome.
Yes, I know that tyvek is water repellent. I tried coatings. Emulsion
coating techniques are my particular specialty. I probably could have
achieved the proper results, given a few more days of work, but the
customer could not afford it. This was a long time ago, in the primitive
days of IRIS.
> Maybe its just me, but I think Charles is kidding us or something,
> because he say "email me" at the end of his reply. What a lonely boy.
> Naughty naughty Charles. I may send you a little ol' email of my hot Tyvek
> pointers. Isn't that what you REALLY want??? <giggle>
Or maybe you just are too much of an asshole to comprehend the simple
answer, which I have posted many times: My newsserver is undergoing repair
lately, and sometimes I don't see replies to my messages. For example, I
had to retrieve your own reply through Dejanews, it did not appear on my
newsserver.
Charles Eicher
> \You cannot get ANY water-based pigments to stick to \Tyvek.
>
> Untrue - Acrylics stick just fine.
Just for the public record, I was primarily referring to watercolor,
gouache, tempera, etc, even acrylic gouache doesn't stick, it just beads
up. I never tried acrylic paints, because I never use them.
Scott Van Note
In article <50s9mn$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, DLancia <dla...@aol.com> wrote:
>\You cannot get ANY water-based pigments to stick to \Tyvek.
>
>Untrue - Acrylics stick just fine.
Just to keep everyone up to date: I've gotten a reference to a company
that makes inkjet plotter paper out of Tyvek. I haven't been able to
contact them but it seems like a good lead. I've also experimented a bit
and have a piece of Tyvek here with printing on it that accepts water
based media with no problem.
I assume that the basic polyolefin fibers of Tyvek can be treated to
produce different effects. It sounds like Charles got ahold of a sample of
raincoat Tyvek. His experimental results are understandable.
I am more confident that I can solve this. It's going a little slow. I've
contacted DuPont and they said they're sending info. Am modifying my
plotter (factory parts) to accept thicker media. And have gotten some
good references and input from this group.
Will sum up when I get it working. Am after the simplest solution.
Scott V
Tupelo6220
> (Tupelo6220) Susan K. writes:
>I am glad that you enjoyed the Scitex training class. I hope you enjoyed
>learning the techniques that I taught Scitex. It is due to research by
>people like me, in the field, doing experimental work, that you are able
to
>learn what NOT to do.
>
IRIS
>Beta program, I operated one of the first 5 units in the US, it wasn't in
>general use at that time, and I taught the Scitex techs how to use their
>units. I wrote the book, miss susan. I hope you enjoyed learning it, 'by
>the book'. You're welcome.
>
>Yes, I know that tyvek is water repellent. I tried coatings. Emulsion
>coating techniques are my particular specialty.
Charles, I showed your reply to my husband. He's a clinical
psychologist. He sees patients like you every day. What I think is that
you're just a weirdo. Do you honestly expect me to believe that you went
from world's biggest idiot to the one who "wrote the book"????
You are so strange. Did you also invent the Internet, and then the
World Wide WeB? I bet you're the guy who invented America Online, and
encouraged Ross Perot in politics. And don't tell me: you wrote the book
on Haute Cuisine, and figured out the tiles on the space shuttle because
ceramics are your speciality.
Look don't call me an a***ole you creep. You're the one who wasted our
time with your stupid ramblings. You're delusionary and you need help. And
you have no right to call me a name. My husband said I should report you
to your internet providor. That is what we are going to do. Not only do
you waste our time with lame replies, you also break the rules of conduct
by using foul language.
>Andrew Werby <dre...@lanminds.com> wrote:
>[So do you have a number for Communicolor, any advice on how to apply
>their coatings, and information about their pricing, or are you mostly
>interested in flinging mud and blowing your own horn?]
I didn't mean to fling mud. I just thought it an incredible waste of
time and an infringement into my internet time which is less than 30
minutes a night. This is how it works. You apply it with their equipment.
They sell you these rods and a draw down system with newsprint and
emulsions. You dry it with a simple hair dryer. How you do it is this: you
pull a section of newsprint down on the rubber matt. Tape the envelope
onto the newsprint and squirt a bead of lacquer onto the top of the
envelope. Then pull it down with the rod. Dry it and do the same thing
with the receiver gel. And dry it too! Its easy really. I have her number
at work. Her name is Lynn and she owns the company. But you can call Iris
yourself for the number because you're nasty as well. This info is for
Scott. He posted the question.
Charles Eicher
In article <50tk5v$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, tupel...@aol.com
(Tupelo6220) wrote:
> Charles, I showed your reply to my husband. He's a clinical
> psychologist.
It is fortunate that you are married to a psychologist. I am sure he is of
much assistance to you during your psychotic outbursts.
Please feel free to "report [me] to your internet providor" [sic]. I am
sure he will be as amused by your spelling as by your lame complaints.
There is nothing to be gained from interacting with you. You loudly
proclaim your expertise, expertise you purchased from someone else, as if
it was your own idea. You are a novice with only a few months experience,
and harass people who worked for years, and years before you ever worked in
that field. You ARE an asshole. I have no time for you, nor for people like
you. Go crawl back under a rock.
Jcone
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
>I am glad that you enjoyed the Scitex training class. I hope you enjoyed
>learning the techniques that I taught Scitex. It is due to research by
>people like me, in the field, doing experimental work, that you are able
to
>learn what NOT to do.
>
>Um, excuse me, miss Susan, but this was a long time ago, I was in the
IRIS
>Beta program, I operated one of the first 5 units in the US, it wasn't in
>general use at that time, and I taught the Scitex techs how to use their
>units. I wrote the book, miss susan. I hope you enjoyed learning it, 'by
>the book'.
>
>Yes, I know that tyvek is water repellent. I tried coatings. Emulsion
>coating techniques are my particular specialty. I probably could have
>achieved the proper results, given a few more days of work, but the
>customer could not afford it. This was a long time ago, in the primitive
>days of IRIS.
Here is Mr. Eicher again! Now he is an expert on emulsion coatings too! In
fact he says that its his particular speciality. I see. I thought it was
"chemistry, photography, Iris printing, and several other areas
pertinent."
I am not flaming here, its just that I came upon Mr. Eicher's reply to the
remarkable judge of character, Miss Susan. Mr. Eicher has enganged me in
discussion in a topic "Re:Glicee?" of rec.arts.fine, in which he is trying
to explain me my business. He claims to have vast knowledge and experience
with Iris printing, its inks, and materials. Yet here he admits that "long
ago" he operated an Iris printer when it was a beta machine. What a joke.
And he feels he wrote the book. And further, how Scitex knows to use its
own units, with its 10,000 employees, is what Mr. Eicher told them nearly
12 years ago when they beta tested with Mr. Eicher.
You showed your TRUE colors above, Mr. Eicher. "People like me in the
field," you say Mr. Eicher? What field? Left field? Right field? You're
NOT a player in the field, Mr. Eicher. You are non-existant in the field.
You're a typical armchair pitcher hurling insults instead of fastballs.
You've just proven that you're not in any position to judge, nor even give
advice on Iris printers, its longevity or the "profiteering" of Iris
operators. If you were as non-exploitive as you reported to me in
"rec.arts.fine/Re:Glicee?", you would have completed the experiment for
your customer even if it meant doing it on your own time. Instead he
couldn't afford to do anymore than the shoddy work you performed for him.
I can't believe you made him pay the bill. Or did your boss force you to?
Hmmm...a real champion of the artists, Mr. Eicher. FRAUD!
Jon Cone
jc...@aol.com
Scott Van Note
Just to divert the arguments: I'm using an HP inkjet plotter. Because of
it's ability to print on Mylex, for archival and dimensional stability
reasons, it shouldn't have too much trouble printing on Tyvek.
I got the Tyvek info package in the mail. Lots of great info on what it
is and how to use it. They included a Printing Handbook and under "Ink
jet printing" it says "Tests conducted by Du Pont have shown that solvent
-based inks work well with TYVEK in the ink jet process, whereas most
water based inks tested feather and blur to some extent and are slower
drying."
They also sent: "Graphically Tyvek", A resource guide for printers,
manufacturers and graphic artist. Contained within it are 8 swatches of
the paper-like Tyvek and one of the cloth-like.
The number is 1-800-44-TYVEK
Scott V
Jose CanuC.
In article <50tikq$l...@crl5.crl.com>, sco...@crl.com says...
>I am more confident that I can solve this.
>Will sum up when I get it working. Am after the simplest solution.
>
>Scott V
Thanks Scott for generating such a tempest in a teapot !! I haven't
enjoyed these flame wars so much in a long time -- even when I have
been the subject of them. What great fun this learning experience
on the Internet provides -- wouldn't exchange it for a ticket to see
another Stallone or Bullock film even.
--
Jose CanuC.
Charles Eicher
> Here is Mr. Eicher again! Now he is an expert on emulsion coatings too! In
> fact he says that its his particular speciality. I see. I thought it was
> "chemistry, photography, Iris printing, and several other areas
> pertinent."
I have reconsidered this little flamewar. I stand by me original words. You
cannot print on Tyvek with ink-jet printers. You can, perhaps, print on a
coating, but that isn't 'printing on tyvek'. Hell, you can print on
aluminum foil of you use a receiver stock and transfer the print to a
surface. I've even seen images silkscreened onto an egg yolk (that was a
famous cover of PRINT magazine)..
> You've just proven that you're not in any position to judge, nor even give
> advice on Iris printers, its longevity or the "profiteering" of Iris
> operators. If you were as non-exploitive as you reported to me in
> "rec.arts.fine/Re:Glicee?", you would have completed the experiment for
> your customer even if it meant doing it on your own time. Instead he
> couldn't afford to do anymore than the shoddy work you performed for him.
> I can't believe you made him pay the bill. Or did your boss force you to?
> Hmmm...a real champion of the artists, Mr. Eicher. FRAUD!
I did perform these experiments on my own time, and I didn't charge the
customer one cent. Alas, I don't have an infinite supply of free time. I
showed preliminary results to the customer, and we both agreed that this
wasn't going where he wanted. It was much easier to select a proper paper
stock, which we both worked on, and the job was successfully completed,
without involving Tyvek.
However, I will point out to you that in my original message, which brought
out all the IRIS loonies from their little cubicles, I only wrote about two
sentences that referred to Iris printing. I reported the results of my
experiments in dry and wet media applied by hand, which was the primary
intent of that message. I do have other uses for tyvek in printmaking, but
I don't think it is appropriate to discuss my proprietary techniques
amongst a group of vultures.
Tarajim
I don't know if you can print directly on tyvek or not, but I do know that
we coat tyvek with acrylic gesso by the thousand yard roll where I work.
We sell a lot of it to artists, ( I work at Tara Materials, maker of
Fredric's artist canvas and many of the other brands of art canvas and ink
jet canvas media). Maybe I'll have someone try printing on tyvek using
our inkjet plotter and let you know the results.
Jcone
In article <512jts$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> tar...@aol.com (Tarajim)
wrote:
There are a number of materials that can be used to pretreat surfaces like
Tyvek for ink jet printing. Besides the heavy gel coat that Susan K.
suggested, there are also emulsions which can be applied such as undyed
and un sensitized photo emulsion, and many acrylic bases retain a
hydroscopic nature after they dry. That is the nature of what the surface
needs to be like - hydroscopic. It must perrmit water to be absorbed. The
gel coats are not actual gelatin, which could cause major problems, but
proprietary polymers with properties similar to gelatine.
May I suggest that you send samples of your gesso coated Tyvek to those
who would request it of you. If it works you may find that there are a
number of artists who would purchase a supply of it.
Jon Cone
jc...@aol.com