How to keep fluid acrylics smooth?
Tony Wypkema
When I'm painting with fluid acrylics and make a mistake, I paint over
the mistake with white, and then paint over the white with a color.
But whether or not I apply the Golden titanium white opaquely or build
up to white with a series of washes of white, when I apply the
correcting color on top of the white and the white dries, the correcting
color looks mottled and doesn't have the same smoothness that shows the
beautiful texture of the watercolor paper or watercolor board.
I do mix water and Golden Flow Release into the paint to try to make the
paint smooth.
Thank you.
Tony
Kay again
canvas or masonite?
Kay
Tony Wypkema wrote in message <37588310...@design-write.com>...
:Does anyone know any tips for keeping fluid acrylics smooth?
:
Jillian
says...
>
>Does anyone know any tips for keeping fluid acrylics smooth?
>I do mix water and Golden Flow Release into the paint to try to make the
>paint smooth.
You need to be using MEDIUM for glazing and not
depend on water so much. Medium is usually sold
as either gloss or matte. I prefer using only gloss
for glazing.
Peter Nelson
>
>the mistake with white, and then paint over the white with a color.
>
>But whether or not I apply the Golden titanium white opaquely or build
>up to white with a series of washes of white, when I apply the
>correcting color on top of the white and the white dries, the correcting
>color looks mottled and doesn't have the same smoothness that shows the
>beautiful texture of the watercolor paper or watercolor board.
I've never had the problem you describe and I use Golden exclusively
these days.
Are you letting it dry thoroughly before painting over? Also,
it is sometime necessary to lightly sand over the the mistaken
spot to eliminate brush stroke texture.
> I do mix water and Golden Flow Release into the paint to try to
> make the paint smooth.
You should avoid mixing water with acrylics as much as possible -
10% or so is OK, but too much water will adversely affect the
film integrity of the paint. If you are glazing and want your paint to be
transparent you should mix medium, not water. Also the Flow Release
should be used VERY sparingly - a few drops per cup of water is
plenty in my experience - that stuff is very concentrated.
---peter
Hutto
Also try Retarding Medium for glazing with acrylics...it's good for
layering and it doesnt have the finishing shine that gloss mediums have.
It's also good for slowing the drying time of thick layers (er, which is
what it's for...) :)
Best acrylics on the market now are Utrecht. I'd suggest trying them out.
I don't want to put down folks' favorite brands, but Golden ranks pretty
low IMO.
Also, I would suggest not purchasing acrylics in fluid to begin with (if
that's what you've been doing...) Utrecht paint comes in pints (if
desired) and is very thick. It's just as easy to mix your own fluid
batches from the thick paint, and you'll end up with higher quality thick
paints for use on other surfaces.
Hutto
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Visit Brother Alphabet's Evergrowing List of Bad Ads
w w w . b a d - a d s - l i s t . c o m
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Tony Wypkema
>
> So do you only use acrylics on watercolor paper? Why? Have you tried
> canvas or masonite?
> Kay
heavy body acrylics on canvas or masonite for other effects.
Tony Wypkema
> Tony Wypkema wrote in message <37588310...@design-write.com>...
> :Does anyone know any tips for keeping fluid acrylics smooth?
> :
> :When I'm painting with fluid acrylics and make a mistake, I paint over
> :the mistake with white, and then paint over the white with a color.
> :
> :But whether or not I apply the Golden titanium white opaquely or build
> :up to white with a series of washes of white, when I apply the
> :correcting color on top of the white and the white dries, the correcting
> :color looks mottled and doesn't have the same smoothness that shows the
> :beautiful texture of the watercolor paper or watercolor board.
> :
> :I do mix water and Golden Flow Release into the paint to try to make the
> :paint smooth.
> :
> :Thank you.
> :
> :Tony
> :
Tony Wypkema
>
> Tony Wypkema wrote in message <37588310...@design-write.com>...
> >Does anyone know any tips for keeping fluid acrylics smooth?
> >
> >When I'm painting with fluid acrylics and make a mistake, I paint over
> >the mistake with white, and then paint over the white with a color.
> >
> >But whether or not I apply the Golden titanium white opaquely or build
> >up to white with a series of washes of white, when I apply the
> >correcting color on top of the white and the white dries, the correcting
> >color looks mottled and doesn't have the same smoothness that shows the
> >beautiful texture of the watercolor paper or watercolor board.
>
> these days.
>
> Are you letting it dry thoroughly before painting over? Also,
> it is sometime necessary to lightly sand over the the mistaken
> spot to eliminate brush stroke texture.
Yes, I was letting the paint dry. I had tried sanding over the dried
white paint/Flow Release/water combination with fine sandpaper, but
small chips of paint chipped off, revealing the color underneath that I
was trying to fix.
I wrote:
> > I do mix water and Golden Flow Release into the paint to try to
> > make the paint smooth.
Peter:
> You should avoid mixing water with acrylics as much as possible -
> 10% or so is OK, but too much water will adversely affect the
> film integrity of the paint. If you are glazing and want your paint to be
> transparent you should mix medium, not water. Also the Flow Release
> should be used VERY sparingly - a few drops per cup of water is
> plenty in my experience - that stuff is very concentrated.
Thanks, Peter! I tried your tip of using a medium (with white paint) to
cover mistakes, before repainting the area, and that works well!
Tony Wypkema
Tony Wypkema
>
> In article <37588310...@design-write.com>, Tony Wypkema
> says...
> >
> >Does anyone know any tips for keeping fluid acrylics smooth?
>
> >paint smooth.
>
> depend on water so much. Medium is usually sold
> as either gloss or matte.
Great tip! Thanks a lot, Jillian!
I tried Golden Acrylic Glazing Liquid mixed in a ratio of two parts
Glazing Liquid to one part Golden fluid titanium white.
After about four coats of this fast-drying combination, the white I had
built up was white enough that I could paint on top with fluid acrylics
and still maintain a watercolor look on watercolor board.
I'm not sure if I'm using the best ratio of glazing liquid to paint.
Does anyone know what the best ratio is, to quickly build up to a white
surface that I can paint on and still maintain a watercolor look?
> I prefer using only gloss for glazing.
Interesting. I wonder why you prefer gloss. I suppose it's because
you're trying to achieve a glossy finish overall, or does the gloss
glaze better?
I'm planning to buy some matte medium to mix with the white paint --
instead of mixing Golden Acrylic Glazing Liquid with white paint --
because that way I wouldn't have to paint a matte medium on top to get a
matte finish.
Tony Wypkema
Dan Fox
> Also try Retarding Medium for glazing with acrylics...it's good for
> layering and it doesnt have the finishing shine that gloss mediums have.
> It's also good for slowing the drying time of thick layers (er, which is
> what it's for...) :)
Yes. Utrecht (see below) and others also make a matte medium, which I
find useful - especially when I don't want the retarding effect.
> Best acrylics on the market now are Utrecht. I'd suggest trying them out.
> I don't want to put down folks' favorite brands, but Golden ranks pretty
> low IMO.
I've been using Utrecht products for years, and they are the best in my
opinion. Very inexpensive, but don't let the price fool you -
they are professional quality. I have not used Golden brand, but others
have told me they are extremely bad. (Utrecht has lots of stores and will
ship anywhere.)
> Also, I would suggest not purchasing acrylics in fluid to begin with (if
> that's what you've been doing...) Utrecht paint comes in pints (if
> desired) and is very thick. It's just as easy to mix your own fluid
> batches from the thick paint, and you'll end up with higher quality thick
> paints for use on other surfaces.
Good advice. This way you can vary the density of the paint to suit your
needs.
>
> Hutto
--
Dan
'The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.' - Blake
'Ich bin ein Artsy Fartzy.' - Dan
Jillian
says...
>I'm not sure if I'm using the best ratio of glazing liquid to paint.
>Does anyone know what the best ratio is, to quickly build up to a white
>surface that I can paint on and still maintain a watercolor look?
When 'correcting' as you describe, I'd use the unthinned
paint straight from the tube or bottle and after it is
thoroughly dried, glaze over it with whatever was to follow.
As for the proper ratio of 'paint' to medium, this is a
purely personal matter. I often use ONLY the medium and
mix my color into it in whatever ratio I think will be
needed to do the job. If it is too thick to flow smoothly,
then thinning with a bit of water is in order.
>> I prefer using only gloss for glazing.
>
>Interesting. I wonder why you prefer gloss.
I like the glossy look since that is the look the rest
of my painting is taking on. If you prefer a matte
look, by all means use the matte medium. Again this
is a very personal choice with no other real rationale.
Peter Nelson
>> Are you letting it dry thoroughly before painting over? Also,
>> it is sometime necessary to lightly sand over the the mistaken
>> spot to eliminate brush stroke texture.
>
>Yes, I was letting the paint dry. I had tried sanding over the dried
>white paint/Flow Release/water combination with fine sandpaper, but
>small chips of paint chipped off, revealing the color underneath that I
>was trying to fix.
If it was dried thoroughly and it was chipping off this is an
almost sure sign that you were using too much water in
your mix.
---peter
Jillian
plne...@mediaone.net says...
>If it was dried thoroughly and it was chipping off this is an
>almost sure sign that you were using too much water in
>your mix.
>
>---peter
I have never experienced chipping because I used
too much water. I think chipping is a manifestation
of some other problem too. Thinning with too much
water usually results in a simply runny passage
that when dry may result in a passage that is not
very scratch-resistant. But CHIPPING per se implies
a thicker coating coming off in flakes and that
doesn't sound to me like water-thinning problems.
Larry Seiler
> Best acrylics on the market now are Utrecht. I'd suggest trying them out.
> I don't want to put down folks' favorite brands, but Golden ranks pretty
> low IMO.
Hhhmmm....well, I use exclusively Galeria by Winsor Newton these days. The
bigger 250 ml squeeze bottles I find very convenient.
I used primarily Atelier Professional acrylics for about 10 years, put out
by Cromacryl. They had a high degree of moisture in them, yet a
concentrate of pigment. Not sure how they did that.
As for glazing....I use a medium as you suggest when I am impatient, but I
found that water worked well for many years.
I found at least in illustration...detailing, realism, etc., that using
acrylics thickly led to their faster drying....but using them like
watercolors and building up layers with drawing techniques similar to line
hatch shading would give best control. Then a wash of color and water made
good glazing. Often....I'd sit with a hairdryer.
At first..the drying time of acrylics drives you nuts....but soon, with
some mastery...you find yourself with a hair dryer because its not drying
fast enough!
haha....
Now.....since I'm painting more Impressionistically....I'm not as concerned
with pigment blending so perfectly seen from 6-12 inches away, but what
mixes in the eye from 2-4 paces back. Then....a glaze with water works
even easier.
Its frustrating for people first learning. It reminds me of skate boards
or juggling. I have problems just standing on the stupid boards, but
others with confidence do amazing things. I juggle with ease though. In
time, it comes and looks so easy to do, but it really is hard at first.
Get around it by thinking less of it as opaque paint meant to be used like
oils, and think of it more in terms of water based media and use it like
watercolors. Then just resolve that you are going to do about a dozen
transparent layers one on top another. It comes in time.
I've built up some 30 layers of such wash glazes in the past, on one piece.
> Also, I would suggest not purchasing acrylics in fluid to begin with (if
> that's what you've been doing...)
yeah...I'd agree with that. Why pay for water? You can get that from the
sink!
*smile*
> Utrecht paint comes in pints (if
> desired) and is very thick. It's just as easy to mix your own fluid
> batches from the thick paint, and you'll end up with higher quality thick
> paints for use on other surfaces.
I was tempted to buy some Utrecht paint when I visited that store outside
the Art Institute in Chicago. My son showed me another store though that
had unbelievable discounts....and I stacked up on Galeria. take care.....
Larry
Larry Seiler
> I use fluid acrylics on watercolor paper for watercolour effects, and
> heavy body acrylics on canvas or masonite for other effects.
>
> Tony Wypkema
you know...I had a strange revelation two months ago. For the first time
in about 15 years, I did some watercolors, and it came naturally...easily,
and they were good.
But....since I used my acrylics like watercolors for so many years,
(duh???), why was that a mystery? You wouldn't know looking at my acrylics
that I painted them so transparently..but that is because one would see the
finished result of 20-30 layers that eventually became opaque, but with
control.
A good exercise for a realist with acrylics is painting a birds feather.
Many stop when they achieve visual "detail"....but the feathers look like a
piece of wood. Part of the realism of the feather goes beyond the obvious
detail to include "softness" and about a dozen layers of wash glazes is
necessary to pull the detail back and create a convincing softness as well.
Acrylics are forgiving. They don't turn to mud with the overlayering, and
colors are intense. For those given to want to try watercolors but fear
the casualties...I recommend the versatility of acrylics. When you've
master acrylics as a water media....I think you'll find watercolors
themselves much easier...but, you have to apply more directly without the
many layers.
peace,
Larry
Peter Nelson
Jillian wrote in message <375bc...@oracle.zianet.com>...
I was thinking it was the layer beneath it that had too much
water. When you add too much water to acrylics it destroys
its film integrity - it just doesn't stick together or to anything
else. The classical example is someone does a wash
of water-diluted blue for the sky and then paints clouds or
trees or something in a thicker paint on top after the
sky is dry. Later they discover that the clouds or
trees or whatever chip off. But I'm just speculating in
the original poster's case.
---peter
>
Jillian
plne...@mediaone.net says...
>I was thinking it was the layer beneath it that had too much
>water.
Aha... I'll buy that. Again, it's not something
I've ever experienced but I can certainly imagine
a week film not holding a stronger one. Of course
when you speak in oil terms, fat over lean is the
preferred method. Maybe it's just the reverse for
acrylics.
Tom Hart
From: Peter Nelson, plne...@mediaone.net
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:18:09 -0400
In article <SMd63.7491$AB2.1...@wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net> Peter Nelson,
plne...@mediaone.net writes:
> If you are glazing and want your paint to be
>transparent you should mix medium, not water.
I have always been frustrated by the milkiness of the medium/paint
mixture for glazing. I felt that I couldn't accurately judge or control
the color that I was glazing with. Perhaps that would come with
practice...Or was I mixing the glaze medium/paint wrong? (I use Golden
acrylics and mediums).
Tom
Larry Seiler
> >transparent you should mix medium, not water.
>
> I have always been frustrated by the milkiness of the medium/paint
> mixture for glazing. I felt that I couldn't accurately judge or control
> the color that I was glazing with. Perhaps that would come with
> practice...Or was I mixing the glaze medium/paint wrong? (I use Golden
> acrylics and mediums).
>
> Tom
If I use medium at all...it is mixed with water.....and naturally so with
acrylics a water media. And....yes, it does come with practice. My own
belief as goes learning to paint in general is that one needs to do 120
paintings before they know anything really of painting. If you decide you
can't help but being an artist and plan on living another 30-50 years or
so...then you've got the time for it all to work out. In other
words...give yourself permission to experiment and let it come. Acrylics
can be very frustrating, but in time you'll find it an amazing medium. I
paint oils and watercolors too, and I just wish that galleries and museums
gave more acceptance of acrylic as a medium. Technically as a type of
plastic when dry...that stretches and gives, it should last much longer
than oils. Plastic left alone as garbage, they say.....has about a 125,000
year half life.
One thing I'd recommend trying Tom...is using a smaller #3 round.....about
the size of a drawing tool.....paint dark to light. For
example....consider a male woodduck's head, an amazing piece of work. The
head has blues and greens, and with a tilt of the head the irredescent
colors suddenly turn lavender and bronze. You could paint an opaque dark
form (near black).....use the round with the consistency slightly thicker
than water, always going back to water...and draw lines (imagine feathers)
in rather fast with white; thus, a black and white painting. It'll dry
almost immediately...then, you keep building up more opaque white as the
form mirrors more the reflected light.
Then...even with JUST water...mix a light yellow and wash it over the white
painted lines. The yellow will go transparently over the white and appear
brighter yellow. When dry.....take a slight wash of thalo blue, and wash
that over the now yellow lines. It will give a brilliant jewel-like
irredescent green. You can add more white lines on top of that....glaze
warmer hues.....glaze cooler hues on the opposite site to give round form
by depth perspective. And it is relatively fast.
The smaller brush allows you to do it comfortably with a drawing board
while even sitting down to watch television and is a good practice
exercise.
I used to build these transparent washes and glazes up layer upon layer
upon layer and the effect is very convincing.
I've heard negative things here about Golden colors....I don't personally
have experience with them. I like Atelier and Galeria....others favor
Utrech.
peace,
Larry
Larry Seiler
artist's site- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
WetCanvas Artists page- (shorter and quicker loading)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Gallery/S/Larry_Seiler/index.html
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw