HOW to PROMOTE ART ??? (a serious enquiry...) TIA
Noumenon
-----------------------------------------
-- POSSIBILITY TO PROMOTE OWN ART;
-- HOW TO FIND ART DEALERS (who might be interested in marketing my art
work and not just draining my(!) account for some useless "promotion
actions" by default);
-- TO FIND AND ESTABLISH CONTACTS WITH PROPER GALLERIES;
-- CHANNELS TO OBTAIN UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION about serious projects,
contests, grants etc.;
-----------------------------------------
Asking too much? Not really. I am not newbie in art, but very new in
marketing art by myself. And I am quite hopelessly lost in this
situation.
By any estimation it would take too damn much time to get somewhere by
using well-known long ways (like participating in every nonsense and
burn
yourself on trifles with view that some gallery owner or art dealer
maybe (!) will take a pity on you to notice your art in some 5 years or
so).
It would be just great if someone can really advise something
substantial
and not only trivial ideas about necessity to get my own website and to
sweat hard at promoting it.
Having own portfolio on the web is "a must" at these days, and everybody
has
it, but it does not mean anything at all.
Even though it's almost mandatory to have web site, and for most people
it would be quite of a surprise if an artist does not have own web site
with his art, yet most of people (involved in art business) don't even
look at these web sites. Sad reality.
Gallery managers or art dealers are too busy to surf internet and waste
time on browsing of slow personal web sites of unknown artists.
Slides, references, letters, samples of work, more references - are more
effective but costly and even onerous (especially when used in wrong
way).
Don't consider it as an impudence on my side, but, please, do not refer
me to sources of such great wisdom as book of W.Joe Innes
("How to become a famous artist") and likewise puerile guides of "do's
and dont's" type. It can be probably interesting just for very
unsophisticated
teenagers (and even though I have a doubt about it).
Neither it's worth to pay attention to general "creative" things like
given
by J.Cameron or similar stuff.
The whole idea is to work out a plan of practical measures and steps to
be taken.
INTERNET SOURCES:
I was looking through Internet but haven't really found anything usable.
Wetcanvas.com, WWAR.com, AbsoluteArts.com and others - kind of too much
about everything but
nothing for certain.
Nor was I lucky in finding any interesting mail-list or informative
bulletin to sign up for.
Generally maybe Internet is not the place where any valuable information
regarding art business is circulating on the whole? Most of people who
are
seriously involved in art business (producing or selling/purchasing) do
not
spend time in forums, newsgroups, etc. At least, it seems so.
Thank you for any info and references!
Weaving the conundrum,
--= NOUMENON =--
Noumenon
Wilfred Luvew
Myste...@yahoo.BLOCK.com.ON says...
>
>Looking for serious information regarding
You say that and then go on to post a string
of reasons why you can't be bothered. You don't want
to do the grunt work - you need someone to do
it all for you. In spite of your distaste for
reading up on the subject, here is a reference:
THE BUSINESS OF ART, by Lee Caplin
Prentice Hall publishers
Andrew Werby
news:3C8FC8EA...@yahoo.BLOCK.com.ON...
> Looking for serious information regarding
>
> -----------------------------------------
> -- POSSIBILITY TO PROMOTE OWN ART;
[You can start by putting some up on the Web. (I don't see any URL for you
in this message). No, it won't make you an instant success, but it's a
start. If you don't want to spend the time, energy and money to establish
your own site, there are numerous places that will allow you to upload
images to their sites, or actually build a site of your own within theirs,
often for free.]
>
> -- HOW TO FIND ART DEALERS (who might be interested in marketing my art
> work and not just draining my(!) account for some useless "promotion
> actions" by default);
[There are a lot of galleries with websites. You can browse through them and
see if there are any that seem compatible with your art, then try contacting
them. It's very doubtful they will want to take you on, since most galleries
have more artists than they can handle before they even open their doors,
but at least you'll have saved some time over doing the same thing the
old-fashioned way. Once you're famous and selling your work regularly for
high prices, the galleries will be much more interested in you.]
> -- TO FIND AND ESTABLISH CONTACTS WITH PROPER GALLERIES;
[See above.]
CHANNELS TO OBTAIN UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION about serious projects,
> contests, grants etc.;
[Subscribe to the Art Deadlines List: http://artdeadlineslist.com This is
the best source I've found for that sort of thing. If you're too poor/cheap
to pay for it, they will send you an abbreviated list for free, by e-mail.
Of course, most of the opportunities listed will be of the "send $25 and 3
slides" type.]
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Asking too much? Not really. I am not newbie in art, but very new in
> marketing art by myself. And I am quite hopelessly lost in this
> situation.
[It's not an easy thing to do. Art is about the hardest thing there is to
sell. Start by going door-to-door with household articles, work up to
selling used cars (or refrigerators to Eskimos), and once you build yourself
up into someone who can sell anything to anyone, then challenge yourself by
going into art marketing.]
>By any estimation it would take too damn much time to get somewhere by
> using well-known long ways (like participating in every nonsense and
> burn
> yourself on trifles with view that some gallery owner or art dealer
> maybe (!) will take a pity on you to notice your art in some 5 years or
> so).
[5 years is quick. Most galleries are like vultures- they like you better
after you're dead.]
>
> It would be just great if someone can really advise something
> substantial
> and not only trivial ideas about necessity to get my own website and to
> sweat hard at promoting it.
[Since you haven't even done that yet, and that's the easy part, what do you
expect?]
>
> Having own portfolio on the web is "a must" at these days, and everybody
> has
> it, but it does not mean anything at all.
>
> Even though it's almost mandatory to have web site, and for most people
> it would be quite of a surprise if an artist does not have own web site
> with his art, yet most of people (involved in art business) don't even
> look at these web sites. Sad reality.
[They have piles of slides coming in daily- why would they want to look on
the Web for more art? If they could find collectors there, they'd be on it
in a flash.]
>
> Gallery managers or art dealers are too busy to surf internet and waste
> time on browsing of slow personal web sites of unknown artists.
[I'm not sure they're all that busy, but it's more fun to take a long
lunch...]
>
> Slides, references, letters, samples of work, more references - are more
> effective but costly and even onerous (especially when used in wrong
> way).
>
> Don't consider it as an impudence on my side, but, please, do not refer
> me to sources of such great wisdom as book of W.Joe Innes
> ("How to become a famous artist") and likewise puerile guides of "do's
> and dont's" type. It can be probably interesting just for very
> unsophisticated
> teenagers (and even though I have a doubt about it).
>
> Neither it's worth to pay attention to general "creative" things like
> given
> by J.Cameron or similar stuff.
>
> The whole idea is to work out a plan of practical measures and steps to
> be taken.
>
> INTERNET SOURCES:
> I was looking through Internet but haven't really found anything usable.
>
> Wetcanvas.com, WWAR.com, AbsoluteArts.com and others - kind of too much
> about everything but
> nothing for certain.
[It sounds like you're looking for some kind of magic bullet...]
>
> Nor was I lucky in finding any interesting mail-list or informative
> bulletin to sign up for.
>
> Generally maybe Internet is not the place where any valuable information
> regarding art business is circulating on the whole? Most of people who
> are
> seriously involved in art business (producing or selling/purchasing) do
> not
> spend time in forums, newsgroups, etc. At least, it seems so.
[If you're dreaming about serious people actually purchasing your unknown
art for resale, it's time to wake up now...]
>
> Thank you for any info and references!
>
>
> Weaving the conundrum,
>
> --= NOUMENON =--
[Here's a tip, "Noumenon"; If you want to build a name for yourself in the
art world, hiding behind a silly pseudonym isn't likely to help. ]
Andrew Werby
http://unitedartworks.com
Jiri Borsky
Once more I stand in sheer admiration of Andrew Werby's seemingly
inexhaustible patience with which he deals, factually, with yet another
request for a "magic bullet" to instant artistic recognition.
Reminds me of Karen Jacobs, who used to contribute to this ng some years
ago.
(snip)
> >By any estimation it would take too damn much time to get somewhere by
> > using well-known long ways (like participating in every nonsense and
> > burn
> > yourself on trifles with view that some gallery owner or art dealer
> > maybe (!) will take a pity on you to notice your art in some 5 years or
> > so).
>
> [5 years is quick. Most galleries are like vultures- they like you better
> after you're dead.]
I have heard dealers talking about "deados". :-(
5 y is indeed quick, and it is not governed just by the dealers alone.
Many buyers will "stalk" an artist for many, many years before deciding
"to pounce".
C'est la vie.
Jiri Borsky
http://www.borsky.dial.pipex.com/
Noumenon
> to do the grunt work - you need someone to do
> it all for you.
I did not know that asking for advice and a couple of pointers to
serious sources
is equal to asking for "doing all the work" for someone.
If some people already have some info regarding my inquiry - why not to
share?
Sharing information and opinion - that is what all these public forums
are about, isn't it?
Every so often, when some people ask something they don't know but I do
- I write them.
I do not see problem. Of course, unless it's extremely dumb or people
just are so lazy that they can not search for something obvious in the
net for some bloody ten minutes...
> THE BUSINESS OF ART, by Lee Caplin
> Prentice Hall publishers
Thanks! Even so I am very sceptical about books on this subject I will
check it.
Noumenon
> request for a "magic bullet" to instant artistic recognition.
I did no ask/mean any such thing.
I am not naive and impatient teenager.
It's rather long way and everything can be achieved only through immense
amount of efforts: work work and work.
But I would like to start it in efficient way and avoid common mistakes
& wasting time on nonsense and useless art parasites
that tend to suck money for their petty efforts and loud speeches
saturated with fake optimistic slogans.
Etc.
> C'est la vie.
Hélas! La vie horrible! C'est la vérité triste... Déprimant.
Noumenon
> in this message).
Oops, sorry, I did not mention it in my previous post.
I do have my own web site (even two) and for some 3 years already.
I just did not promote it well. In current situation, when Internet is
overloaded with everything beyond any reasonable point - web sites are
just lost in there!...
I have taken one of my web sites for major overhaul.
However I did not provide URL to it for certain reasons.
I just did not want to associate "silly pseudonym" and my silly
questions
with my art. It's never late to let people to spit upon seeing my
pictures.
I can do that later.
> [There are a lot of galleries with websites. You can browse through them and
> see if there are any that seem compatible with your art, then try contacting
> them. It's very doubtful they will want to take you on, since most galleries
> have more artists than they can handle before they even open their doors,
> but at least you'll have saved some time over doing the same thing the
> old-fashioned way. Once you're famous and selling your work regularly for
> high prices, the galleries will be much more interested in you.]
A hell of hustle. I created pretty good collection of bookmarks to
useful resources and galleries, but this bloody Internet changes too
fast and all from bad to worse. Most of these links are dead. Besides
you can roam around forever and yet miss some web site you need.
Searching engines are going wacky and give all kind of ridiculous
results. It takes for ever to fish out something worthy!....
> [Subscribe to the Art Deadlines List: http://artdeadlineslist.com
Very good link!!!! Thank you very much!
> [It's not an easy thing to do. Art is about the hardest thing there is to
> sell. Start by going door-to-door with household articles, work up to
> selling used cars (or refrigerators to Eskimos), and once you build yourself
> up into someone who can sell anything to anyone, then challenge yourself by
> going into art marketing.]
That is exactly the thing I do not want to do.
If I will be spending 16 hours per day for pushing my art who is going
to paint then?
> [5 years is quick. Most galleries are like vultures- they like you better
> after you're dead.]
That's true. But 5 years isn't quick.
To become a world-famous artist it's awfully quick, but to set up as an
established artist with reliable clientele and stable "cash flow" it's
OK. Can be done much faster though.
Depends on ART and people marketing this art.
> [Since you haven't even done that yet, and that's the easy part, what do you
> expect?]
I did, but it does not give any real advantage. As I said before
everybody has site at these days...
> [If you're dreaming about serious people actually purchasing your unknown
> art for resale, it's time to wake up now...]
Depends on what we imply by "serious" people. I do not expect art
museums or galleries to buy my art (more likely it will never happen at
all), some serious art collectors? Maybe, in time.
But, at least, to have good prices for pictures that sell - that's
enough for serious start.
Thanks for info and tips!!!!!!!!!!
I really appreciate it!
aisjah
> Looking for serious information regarding
>
> -----------------------------------------
> -- POSSIBILITY TO PROMOTE OWN ART;
>
> -- HOW TO FIND ART DEALERS (who might be interested in marketing my art
> work and not just draining my(!) account for some useless "promotion
> actions" by default);
>
> -- TO FIND AND ESTABLISH CONTACTS WITH PROPER GALLERIES;
>
> -- CHANNELS TO OBTAIN UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION about serious projects,
> contests, grants etc.;
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Asking too much? Not really. I am not newbie in art, but very new in
> marketing art by myself. And I am quite hopelessly lost in this
> situation.
Stree near Divisadero. email me at asi...@earthlink.net if you want
more accurate info on this.
Noumenon
I will check it out.
Weaving the Conundrum
--=| NOUMENON |=--
Nik Maack
Marilyn wrote:
> How to promote art?
>
> Go to openings, introduce yourself, talk to curators and other
> artists.
How do you become a success and promote your art if you're an
antisocial, introverted jerk who hates people, parties, and shmoozing?
What if you believe the majority of artists are pretentious dimwits who
enjoy playing the role of artist -- "Look at me! I'm complicated!" --
far more than they enjoy putting brush to paper? What if you have
contempt for everyone and everything, and hate the very idea of leaving
your home?
These are my handicaps. I would discard them if I didn't enjoy them so much.
I'm reading "WOMEN" by Charles Bukowski, drunken psycho poet. At one
point he describes his hatred for other poets. The ones he hates most
are the poets that behave like poets. When you look and act like a
poet, he says, odds are you're some fake little chucklehead who deserves
to be beaten with wooden mallets.
I have to agree with BUK. It was my birthday recently. Michelle (my
lover) and I went to the local arts and drafting store and bought me a
drawing table so I won't have to work on the floor anymore. We were
served by extremely skinny young emotive women dressed in dark coloured
clothing. They had beads around their necks, feathers in their hair,
rings on every finger, and wore eccentric make-up. When they spoke,
their hands flew all around them as though they were doing an
interpretive dance.
Here, I thought, are the poets that look like poets. I'm sure they were
hired because they look "artistic".
Imagine my relief when the woman behind the counter was an older woman
dressed plainly, who came across as gruffly humourous. We had a bag of
bagels with us, and she jokingly asked if she could have one. I would
have given her the entire bag if she'd only been willing to take them.
Anyhow, being an antisocial jerk, the way I promote my art is put up a
website, advertise it here and there, and hope for the best. But I'm
not really in it for the money, or trying to make a living at this. I
do plan on putting up posters next week, advertising my website. It'll
be interesting if that achieves anything.
Duchas de Abril
>How do you become a success and promote your art if you're an
>antisocial, introverted jerk who hates people, parties, and shmoozing?
Funny thing is, I know LOTS of "people" who earn
a good living creating what others refer to as
arts/crafts, and you describe them to a "T."
Maybe their success has something to do with their
being good business people as well as fine crafters?
Maybe their success comes from keeping focused
and not being distracted by partying/schmoozing?
I always feel guilty when I visit these folks, like
I'm forever interrupting something important they
are working on. For example, I was talking on the
phone to one who sounded un-characteristically grumpy
with me. When I visited her later in the day, I
understood why. She had ink and paper spread everywhere,
her hand, hair, jeans covered with ink, and was producing
a series of HAND-RUBBED wood block prints. No wonder
she didn't want to stop to chat on the phone. But
she was too polite to tell me so. You can view her
work at:
But no woodblock prints on her site - yet...
Nik Maack
Duchas de Abril wrote:
> http://www.zianet.com/darcyh
Nice stuff. I really like the corpse in bed with the woman, as well as
the topless redhead in bed with the beast. These two seem so
un-quilt-like. They all seem un-quilt-like, really. There's something
really interesting about the concept of a dark and spooky quilt. It's
anti-quilt. Bigger than quilts. A great blurring of the line between
"art" and "craft".
My lover Michelle complains that the world has decided "Women make
craft" and "Men make art". I've tried to convince her otherwise, but
she groans and scowls and scoffs.
Alas.
Duchas de Abril
>They all seem un-quilt-like, really. There's something
>really interesting about the concept of a dark and spooky quilt. It's
>anti-quilt. Bigger than quilts. A great blurring of the line between
>"art" and "craft".
Thanks for you comments. I'll pass them on
to her via email so I don't again disturb
her printmaking venture with a phone call.
As for "quilts" she necessarily has to put
herself in that genre, although she much
prefers to think of them as "fabric art."
In any event, they are meant to hang like
tapestries, not ornament someone's bed as
a dust cover.
Noumenon
this enquiry.
One just can not find enough time to work (produce art) and roam around
all these parties and events,
socializing with exalted eccentric freaks and talkative loafers, with
dimmish view to hook up someone who knows something
about art and ways around local art business...
For the most part artists (who work) do not attend most of these events
at all.
To approach and to interest any curator "on the fly" is not that easy
thing to do,
and I believe that chances of that (without proper ground and
circumstances) are very insignificant.
Unfortunately, most curators are too spoilt by attention, self-centred,
snobbish and hard to get.
PhtgrphrBn
>I'm not too good at it myself,
Ahhh but your here ?
Duchas de Abril
>Oh, I forgot three big things.
>1.Give parties. Have lots of art work on your own walls.
>2. Have studio visits with some good food and wine.
>3. Get together with some artist friends and rent an empty
> store front. I personally love the idea of store front type galleries.
Well, that's good advice for someone
trying to make it with galleries. But once
again, I can only speak to my own experiences
with artists who ARE ALREADY making their
living as artists/crafspersons. They don't
do any of the above. In fact, at a recent opening
the artists (un-married partners) didn't even
show up. I know quite a few artists who dread
putting in appearances at openings of their works.
I happen to like the opportunity to schmooze with
folks who come to see my own art.
And I now live in an area where there are MANY
artists who derive their living from their work.
I feel very fortunate to know some of them
personally. What has brought us together as
artists has been a little local monthly newsletter
called "The Creative Connection." Over the several
years it's been published we have had subscribers
volunteer their homes for various get-togethers.
These are nearly always pot-luck suppers. We
don't see collectors coming to these events.
We have had an annual theme night where hopefully
everyone contributes something done specially
for that night, based on the theme. For example:
"Bugs" was one theme. Everyone present votes on
a "best" in several categories and most of the
artists presenting a theme work end up with a
"blue ribbon" for "best of ______" in one category
or another.
Sadly, the newlsetter may see its
final issue this month as the driving forces
behind it seem to have tired of the constant battle
to stay solvent. I have long volunteered as the
proof reader, but can't take on the larger chores
of editing and publishing. The subscriber base has
been pretty constant over the years I've participated,
at plus or minus 120 artists.
Luckily there is another source still being
published locally as a free monthly (more or less)
full-color newspaper. This one survives on advertising
fees it charges and is the work of a single woman
who is editor/publisher/advertising salesperson/etc.
Nik Maack
Duchas de Abril wrote:
> And I now live in an area where there are MANY
> artists who derive their living from their work.
Where abouts is that, anyhow?
I keep thinking I have to get out of my apartment and hobnob with other
artists in the flesh, but I keep hesitating. As I already mentioned,
I'm not a very sociable person.
Anyhow, I enjoyed your description of the newsletter than unites local
artists in your area. Thanks for posting it.
Noumenon
> Well, that's good advice for someone
> trying to make it with galleries. But once
> again, I can only speak to my own experiences
> with artists who ARE ALREADY making their
> living as artists/crafspersons. They don't
> do any of the above. In fact, at a recent opening
> the artists (un-married partners) didn't even
> show up.
That's another point. Many of them never do.
And, so:
- artists do not show up;
- collectors are too busy, and attend only places where they care about
some particular art,
and not about meeting other artists they don't know at all;
- curators are generally unapproachable;
......
And what we have after having sifted the crowd?
- Just general public and pseudo-Bohemian brood (that swarms at every
party or opening)...
------------
> And I now live in an area where there are MANY
> artists who derive their living from their work.
Mmmmm! Interesting. Where this area is?
------------
PhtgrphrBn
rest on there laurels. Whatever.
>Oh, once the artist gets the shows, there is no more
>need to schmooze. But the artist can go to to her own
>shows to bask in the glory (if any). It's better to go disguised as
>your own mother to keep down the disparaging
>comments.
>
Duchas de Abril
>How about an e-zine? Would that work for you?
It would for me but I've failed in several
attempts to get others interested in going
online with the newsletter. Not sure why
the resistance. Maybe it's that no one has
good computer skills for doing HTML stuff.
Or perhaps many of the artists in this
area are still computerless. I think the
latter is maybe true. We don't have a good
high-speed server to the area so everyone
is stuck with the 57k modem hookups and
speeds in the 40k range, or less. We do have
satellite companies that service the area
but the monthly fees are more than most want
to fork over for casual internet use, me
included.
Duchas de Abril
>Duchas de Abril wrote:
>> And I now live in an area where there are MANY
>> artists who derive their living from their work.
>
>Where abouts is that, anyhow?
I live in what is referred to as south-central
New Mexico. The newsletter's sub-title reads:
"Created by and for the art & artist community
of Lincoln County, New Mexico."
The latest issue is numbered Volume 5, No. 68.
I have no idea how many "no's." are in the
other four volumes.
Lincoln County is notoriously reknowned (is that
redundant??) as the Home of Billy the Kid - the
outlaw of late 19th century USA western fame.
You can find a ton of information on the web
about the area by GOOGLEing on Lincoln County,
Billy the Kid, Ruidoso, or New Mexico.
And not long ago I posted here a reference to
my own photo essay of the county seat of Lincoln
County - Carrizozo:
http://www.zianet.com/jaxart/photos/zozo1.html
This photo essay is about artists now moving
into the abandoned buildings in town and creating
a renaissance of sorts there. I don't happen to
be one of them - I live about 50 miles away
in Ruidoso. Ruidoso is noted as a summer resort
community with the southernmost REAL ski area
in the USA. And it is the scenic beauty of the
area as well as the isolation and great weather
that has long made it an artist's Mecca.
Duchas de Abril
>General public? No, only the public who pay attention to
>news of openings.
>
>"Bohemian" how 50's of you. You sure don't write like a person who
>goes to many openings.
Actually, "Bohemian" has a good point. I find
that the best times for "openings" are Friday
evenings beginning right at end of the business
day, ESPECIALLY for galleries located in central
business districts of larger communities in the USA.
For example: in nearby Santa Fe, which is now
the second most active art venue in the USA,
Friday night openings are becoming an established
institution. It's become the thing to do on a
Friday evening, going from one opening to the
next and not having to worry about fixing a meal
or buying one after filling up on all the munchies
that are part of the fare at each gallery. Sadly,
someone threw a monkey wrench in the wine-serving
that had been allowed. Now galleries are required
to purchase a VERY expensive liquor license in
order to give away free wine. I don't know how
much that has impacted the attendance, but I know
it has to have had an affect on those who saw
Friday evenings as a way to get a cheap drunk on.
Duchas de Abril
>
>In the US, of course artists go to openings. It is an integral part of the
>sales program for galleries. Invitations often say, 'artist will be
>present.'
>
>The only time I've been to an opening when the artist wasn't present was
>when he was dead.
Speaking only of the USA...
I've been to many openings where you couldn't
find the artist for one reason or another.
But certainly a gallery owner should have
every right to expect the artist to be present.
On the other hand, artists often have gallery
connections in cities far from where they
reside, and it's just not feasible sometimes
to make it to openings - it's a great expense
if you're only option is flying there and back.
And I think this is especially true if the
opening is for more than one artist. One-man
shows probably are more expecting of the
artist's presence, regardless of expense incurred.
But then many one-man shows are for artists
who are financially secure anyway, so it's a
moot point - the expense of travel.
Dirk Gruyters
Create some luck@!
((Look at and act on your star-signs more often......))
Dirk Gruyters
Put the link of your website under every e-mail, for example:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/dirk.gruyters
Dirk Gruyters
artist, and so on...
Dirk Gruyters
enterprise or local shop.
If you think interesting people show up there, you can ask the
owner/boss/chef to public your work there. If they have some policy for
things on the wall, you can ask a price for "decorating" the walls.
Most of the times a company already has another company doing the art-stuff,
but mostly what they offer and have is crap.
Your own work is excellent, of course, and more personal for the company.
They see the artist him or herself!
It doesn't really work for myself (yet), but it's an idea.
Until now, I only had one exhibition this way, but it's a start.
PhtgrphrBn
Noumenon
Newsletter does not require any particular HTML knowledge.
Normally people do NOT like to receive heavy HTML messages with pictures
and javascripts.
(- Slow download and danger to get a virus within HTML/DHTML/script
codes).
Standard newsletter is just a text with few links to some web pages.
Speed has nothing to do with it either. It's mostly incompetence that
require fast servers and cable connections. If some jolterheads want to
hook 5 Mb attachments or embed Flash and other useless multimedia and
clog mailboxes of scared subscribers - then, of course, it's necessary
to have DSL connection (at least).
But professional approach would leave a newsletter thin, brief and clear
(without soggy & irrelevant excess).
People were using this internet tool years ago with modems of 9600 and
14000 Bps
and, yet, nobody died in waiting...
The main problem is TO MAKE INTERESTING NEWSLETTER that people would
really want to read.
I was subscribed to so many but there was NOT a SINGLE one I really
liked...
(maybe I am too capricious and choosy ).
Noumenon
Oh, no! I am not that old. Besides what is "50-ties" about it? It's more
like 20-ties or even before.
It does not really matter. Bohemian crowd and its features change, but
word/term just picks new shades of meaning. It's still quite usable
among those who know where it applies.
> You sure don't write like a person who goes to many openings.
You are quite right. I am keeping an eye on everything that happens (at
least I try to),
but for the most part there are not so many things that I find
interesting for myself to attend.
99,9% of art & exhibitions are the same. Over and over, again.
A tedious roundelay.
Duchas de Abril
>
>Another way to get attention is to lend or borrow your work to a company
Coincidentally, there was a news item just
today about ENRON's vast art collection and
how the contemporary artists in the collection
will see the prices for the works held by
ENRON soar when they are put up for auction
soon. Seems having the notoriety of being in
ENRON's collection is enough to bring out
the collector's check books.
Duchas de Abril
Myste...@yahoo.BLOCK.com.ON says...
>
>
>Newsletter does not require any particular HTML knowledge.
Well, why don't YOU make contact with
those in charge of the newsletter I was
referring to and YOU convince them to
go online. I wasn't able to. And our
newsletter is NOT just text - it's for
and by artists, after all, and also has
some advertising graphics involved.
BTW, this is an ALL-VOLUNTEER effort and
requires lots of someone's time and effort
to produce each month. In fact it requires
time and effort of quite a few people,
including about two hours of my own time
to proof-read and convey my corrections
back to the editor.
mdeli
>> A tedious roundelay.
Marilyn wrote:
>These statements are regional.
It's Marilyn who is regional, a naive hick.
>Where I live artists worry about having people show up, period.
Little wonder!
>But on occasion we have people show up in bike uniforms
>stuffing their faces and not looking at the art work, as an example.
Little wonder!
>I don't find openings tedious. Because people like coming here we
>get some very interesting artists' talks from all over the world.
Blah Blah!
>As general advice to students and beginners out there I stand
>by my recommendation.
Hasn't done Marilyn any good, but she's still trying.
...no skill no art
"The Emperor's New Clothes aren't clothing you stupid little girl. They are body installations containing invisible Color Fields."
Tired of Modern Art? Check out my web page
New address- http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli
Dini Meeuwig
Create some luck@!
((Look at and act on your star-signs more often......))
Dirk Gruyters
Put the link of your website under every e-mail, for example:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/dirk.gruyters
Dirk Gruyters
artist, and so on...
Dini Meeuwig
enterprise or local shop.
If you think interesting people show up there, you can ask the
owner/boss/chef to public your work there. If they have some policy for
things on the wall, you can ask a price for "decorating" the walls.
Most of the times a company already has another company doing the art-stuff,
but mostly what they offer and have is crap.
Your own work is excellent, of course, and more personal for the company.
They see the artist him or herself!
It doesn't really work for myself (yet), but it's an idea.
Until now, I only had one exhibition this way, but it's a start.
Dirk Gruyters
mdeli
This is as silly as complaining that a writing produced on a
typewriter can't be compared with that produced on a computer. All
images can be compared. An image is of interest or it isn't. How it
was done is secondary. If an image attracts the viewer it is
successful.
So called fine artists today resent digital work because its abstract
quality can be achieved by most anyone is far more interesting than
most work presently accepted as fine art. What they are really afraid
of is that the digital media will reveal the absurdity of Modern
Academic Abstraction and negate the schmiering around of many now
famous personalities.
Not long from now digital output will also create a textural finish
and duplicate the impasto features of fashionable abstract painting.
This will encourage conservative modern art fundamentalists to further
hopelessly insist that the new media produces something which can't be
compared.
Computers will probably be the main means of producing artwork if they
aren't already.
Five fractals are visually more interesting in every artistic aspect
than 90% of all modern abstraction. The only hope that the modern
abstract painter has is to carefully avoid looking at computer
abstraction and imagine that modern art is the same old game.
Frank Vollbrecht
>>someone wrote, "digital work simply can not be compared to conventual painting, it lacks far to much in the way of tactile quailities both for the eye and sense of touch."
>
>....Computers will probably be the main means of producing artwork if they
>aren't already.
>
>Five fractals are visually more interesting in every artistic aspect
>than 90% of all modern abstraction. ....
Not only fractals but new animated OP Art and abstract stereo pictures
are visually very interesting. If you are interested then try to
manipulate some of the OP Art paintings with your mouse at:
and enjoy yourself as I did when generating these pictures.
Frank
ewait
> antisocial, introverted jerk who hates people, parties, and shmoozing?
> enjoy playing the role of artist -- "Look at me! I'm complicated!" --
> far more than they enjoy putting brush to paper? What if you have
> contempt for everyone and everything, and hate the very idea of leaving
> your home?
>
> These are my handicaps. I would discard them if I didn't enjoy them so much.
My, I had to laugh at this one! You've described me to a T! If I never
had to leave my place it would be wonderful (45 acres next to a
wildlife refuge). Just give me my pen, ink & paper and the Internet
(got to get that pen, ink & paper from somewhere!).
I finally found a small nitch for myself (after trying watercolor,
quilting, pottery, jewelry and a half dozen other things over the past
30 years and not making any money) on the Internet with pen & ink
drawings. I scan the drawings & sell prints & notecards on ebay and my
web page. I could probaby make alot more if I went to craft sales &
consignment shops around here, but I'd rather sit & draw! My husband
says this is the first time I've ever made any money off my art, so as
long as it pays for my supplies & art books, I'm satisfied.
ewait
http://www.greyhavenart.com
(that is, if it's working. I'm trying to host it on my computer at
home and have been having problems!)
PhtgrphrBn
fortold and there is no longer a need for artist it will be done by computers.
fini!
Fran Burke
Please allow me some personal opinions concerning your comments.
1. Although it is difficult to promote and sell artwork via the internet,
you can view this as just one more means in your marketing arsenal. Perhaps
many artbuyers do not take the time to "surf", however once you make contact
you have a place to refer them to see your work. Also a good site with well
thought out links will drive some traffic to your site. Also you can always
copy images from your site on a cd and have that available to send or
distribute.The site is also easy to update with new works as you finish
them.
2. There are many, many juried and non juried exhibitions and shows which
you can enter. Often times you may send images from your site or cd for
submittal, rather than slides.
Hope this helps
Regards
Hans
mdeli
is secondary. If an image attracts the viewer it is successful.
Many so-called fine artists today resent digital work because its
abstract quality can be achieved by most anyone and it is far more
interesting than most work presently accepted as fine art. What they
are really afraid of is that the digital media will reveal the utter
absurdity of Modern Academic Abstraction and negate the importance of
the schmiering around of many now famous personalities.
Not long from now digital output will also create a textural finish
and duplicate the impasto features of fashionable abstract painting.
This will encourage conservative modern art fundamentalists to further
hopelessly insist that the new media produces something which can't be
compared.
Five fractals are visually more interesting in every artistic aspect
than 90% of all modern abstraction. The only hope that the modern
abstract painter has is to carefully avoid looking at computer
abstraction and imagine that modern art is the same old game.
Tired of Modern Art? Check out my web page
Leigh
the market when digitals are in the mix. Realism is quite easily produced,
along with texture, accurate brush strokes and even the smell or oil paint.
I was recently fooled in a gallery when I recogined an artist's work from
another part of the country. Didn't realize he was partaking in the new form
of trompe l'oeil, or 'fool the eye' works. Very much excellent realiistic
painting btw, and very disappointing.
But you are talking about the digital creation of a painting, not a copy.
Photoshop and it's kin can produce any kind of realistic painting image from
a photo scan... and you know that. Why would you think it would only be
used for abstract works?
My take, for what it's worth, is that the hand painted, original work will
always find a market. Especially in an age of high tech over-acheiving. Our
human hearts require some evidence of the artist's hand in creating art,
food, and comfort levels of all sorts.
L.
"mdeli" <n...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3d25d26f...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
and will add:
The range of colour, texture, tone, quality and transparency in artist's
pigments is greater than that of the printer's colour range. The range of
human eye sensitivity is greater than the printer's colour range as well as
the artist's pigment range.
There are excellent abstract paintings and there are junk abstract
paintings, just as there are excellent representational paintings and there
are junk representational paintings. Both styles can be created in a variety
of mediums.
I'll probably see some moron saying ' you're using the word style
incorrectly'.
The problem most in this group have is in not being able to separate the art
from either an abstract or representational style.
They battle endlessly over style - abstract art is the only art - no
representational art is the only art - you're a fool - no you're a fool -
and they never discuss art.
As you can tell I do at times get tired of the stupidity - but if you spend
time working alone - it's the only game in town.
keith
Leigh <le...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:uibpgd1...@corp.supernews.com...
Mon Sune
scot...@rogers.com says...
>
>As you can tell I do at times get tired of the stupidity - but if you spend
>time working alone - it's the only game in town.
Geez - can we assume you don't own a mirror?
Understandable - considering how frightening it would be
to frequently face your own stupidity...
Noumenon
replacement.
- illustrations of different kinds (collages for the most part)
- abstract art (the cheasiest ways to create something on computer)
- realistic works (low-demand photorealistic works) i.e. photos processed
with filters...
Serious pictures will not be replaced by any hi-tech crap,
unless the whole mankind will be ultimately zombified in technocratic way
and impoverished to the point where nobody could afford works of art.
Actually, the same fears were already expressed when photography appeared
(to replace art),
the when movie appeared (to replace theatre), TV (to replace remains of
brains altogether)
and computers multimedia - to fill the gap in empty heads...
Seriously, even when quality of printing could match real colour blending,
there are still be
a whole abyss between real and digitally produced art
At least in genre art the most important thing is WHAT depicted, and that is
where process of creation an image via computer is 20 times slower and 40
times clumsier than with hands + classic tools.
Besides there are things like energy and aura of artwork, etc.- things that
non-transferrable to dead output
produced by computer.
To talk or think seriously that
good and serious art work can be replaced by digital "art" is nonsense and
waste of time.
(hmmm... he I wasted some already).
Weaving the Conundrum
-=| NOUMENON |=-
Mon Sune
>To talk or think seriously that
>good and serious art work can be replaced by digital "art" is nonsense and
>waste of time.
I know some artists who would take strong
exception to that statement - artists who
are using digital printing as a "tool" to
create new and very intriguing images. And
I can assure you the movie makers who are
using computer simulations in ever more
fascinating ways would further disagree.
mdeli
>digital "art" (which is hardly art at all) can only replace what is worth
>replacement.
>
>- illustrations of different kinds (collages for the most part)
-Not by artists who know their craft.
>- abstract art (the cheasiest ways to create something on computer)
_and by hand
>- realistic works (low-demand photorealistic works) i.e. photos processed
>with filters...
>
>Serious pictures will not be replaced by any hi-tech crap,
>unless the whole mankind will be ultimately zombified in technocratic way
>and impoverished to the point where nobody could afford works of art.
>
>Actually, the same fears were already expressed when photography appeared
>(to replace art),
>the when movie appeared (to replace theatre), TV (to replace remains of
>brains altogether)
>and computers multimedia - to fill the gap in empty heads...
I predict that the time will come when even you won't be able to tell
the difference between computer output and any other artwork. Much
fine work today is computer aided.
>Besides there are things like energy and aura of artwork, etc.- things that
>non-transferrable to dead output
>produced by computer.
Name three.
simulat
>Besides there are things like energy and aura of artwork, etc.-
but I think they are meaningless. Try composition, colour balance,
personal interest, layers of meaning - there are many many pretty
concrete ways of thinking about art - but energy and aura are just
obscure.
Can you be a bit clearer?
Bye
Martin
Bye
Martin
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
Your inability to stay on topic appears to have an obsessive compulsive
basis.
I strongly recommend that you receive anger management therapy.
keith
Mon Sune <mo...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3d261...@oracle.zianet.com...
Mon Sune
scot...@rogers.com says...
>I strongly recommend that you receive anger management therapy.
And what do you suggest for yourself?
You're the one who instigated this exchange
by attacking me 'from out of the blue'
because you feel compelled to set the standard
for how people should post replies to this
forum. Live in a glass house do you? Then
don't go throwing brickbats around lest you
bring it down upon your person!
As for your assumption that you could somehow
cause me to anger, you haven't a clue! I
participate here, as does Mani, as a way of
entertaining myself by replying to people like you...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
man can and does paint - he can be forgiven much because of that. Don't
class yourself with Mani he is out of your league.
2) This started with your posted response to one of my postings in which
you proceeded to isolate one statement of mine from a group of statements.
So don't be so sanctimonious about not starting it.
3) You have a history of not accepting responsibility for your actions. The
following is a quote from one of your postings:
> Mon Sune wrote:
> > You sound just like some pre-schooler's
> > mother. Refrigerator doors seem to be
> > the preferred spot in the house for their
> > burgeoning artists - and the walls can become
> > impromptu murals if the kids are left alone
> > for too long - as this parent well recalls...
There is in this posting anger, condescension, arrogance. As a parent you
make it sound like it's their fault. You are responsible for the mischief
your kids get into. You should have child proofed your house. My kids got
into a half empty gallon of paint - mixed it with potatoes - dumped it on
the floor. It was my fault - I should have put it away - I was dammed lucky
they didn't drink the stuff.
You don't accept responsibility for anything. They were your kids you left
them alone it's your responsibility not theirs.
I will also recommend a child management course. They are given by some
excellent psychologists - I learned a lot in the one I took.
keith
Mon Sune <mo...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3d284...@oracle.zianet.com...
Mon Sune
scot...@rogers.com says...
>I will also recommend a child management course. They are given by some
>excellent psychologists - I learned a lot in the one I took.
>
>keith
Hey Keith, excellent idea. Just what YOU need.
Not the course, but someone to manage YOU!
You're about the most childish poster I've
read here in a long time. At the very least
you might benefit from a Dale Carnegie course
on "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
because you're neither winning nor influencing
in this forum!!
Noumenon
But computer graphic is hardly an art as it is or/and it's very cheasy way
to make it.
Movies + TV + design - are OK. It's impossible to do without computers at
these days, but
representational art, visual arts, fine arts - there is nothing to do with
computers and for many decades 9at least) all this so-called "art" made with
computers will be worthless and rightly so.
> I know some artists who would take strong
> exception to that statement - artists who
> are using digital printing as a "tool" to
> create new and very intriguing images. And
> I can assure you the movie makers who are
> using computer simulations in ever more
> fascinating ways would further disagree.
--
Noumenon
> Energy and aura???? of artwork. Perhaps you can define these things -
> but I think they are meaningless.
Only when you do NOT know what they mean. I just mention them not in order
to develop lectures in this group, but
to remind of things that do exist and quite clear to knowledgable people.
> Try composition, colour balance,
> personal interest, layers of meaning - there are many many pretty
> concrete ways of thinking about art - but energy and aura are just obscure.
Not really. THere are just things that do require any boring discussions but
do require
knowledge and experience in particular matters.
Talking about these things here is the same as to dispute about God or
meaning of life. Results are known -
nobody ever learns anything from these conversations, people just got deeper
in their own (quite often erroneous) convictions - that is all.
If you are intersted in spiritual things - go down to study subject closer,
but do not ask questions out of idle cusiousity....
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
I love your childish poster charge.
Yes ! that's me - that's what I always wanted to be
I never wanted to grow up
I made it to retirement
through 32 years of being a bureaucratic systems analyst
reports, memos, flow charts, time standards,
cost benefit forecasts etc.,
I hid my child from the world of business
Waiting for the day when I could be
12 years old again
I have done it! I have survived!
I have my childhood back
You're right!
You have found my secret.
--But I am a smart old bastard for a 12 year old --
keith (winner of the Mani artspeak award)
P.S. my secret hero has always been: Peter Pan (k)
Mon Sune <mo...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3d28c...@oracle.zianet.com...
Mon Sune
>Movies + TV + design - are OK. It's impossible to do without computers at
>these days, but
>representational art, visual arts, fine arts - there is nothing to do with
>computers and for many decades 9at least) all this so-called "art" made with
>computers will be worthless and rightly so.
You are making the usual mistake by generalizing.
I know of FINE ARTISTS who use computers as "tools"
that help them to create the interesting new images
they are painting, sculpting, etc. I wish I could
find a lot of recent work by one of the leading
proponents of computer-aided printmaking but I'll
leave it to you to maybe eventually discover them.
Mon Sune
>I wish I could
>find a lot of recent work by one of the leading
>proponents of computer-aided printmaking but I'll
>leave it to you to maybe eventually discover them.
On second thought, I decided to look up on the
Web one of my favorite teachers who has long
been recognized as a pioneer in the field of
monocolor watercolor FINE ART PRINTS, and has
been one of the first in the field to apply
his digital imaging smarts to his own work.
Here are two web sites to get you started on
your search for artists whose final product
is enhanced by use of computers:
http://nmaa-ryder.si.edu/collections/exhibits/monotypes/olsenbio.html
http://www.fionline.it/santareparata/olsen.html
mdeli
>Here are two web sites to get you started on
>your search for artists whose final product
>is enhanced by use of computers:
>
>http://nmaa-ryder.si.edu/collections/exhibits/monotypes/olsenbio.html
>http://www.fionline.it/santareparata/olsen.html
>
>
The usual mediocrity.
frankvo...@web.de
>we are not dicussing usefullness of computers or ways to utilize them.
>But computer graphic is hardly an art as it is or/and it's very cheasy way
>to make it.
>
I cannot agree. Sometimes it is quite difficult and time consuming to
create new computer graphics. Have a look at:
The algorithms are sometimes complex and I need lots of days and even
weeks to establish a new JAVAapplet where you may interfere with the
picture by your mouse.
Frank
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
keith
mdeli <n...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3d29b59...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
computers cannot be used to assist in the creation of art.
The traditional big three of art is drawing, colour, mood. A water colour
can satisfy those conditions and so can an oil and so can a drawing and so
can an engraving etc.
There is a natural separation between the big three and the medium used in
their expression. If a computer assisted image satisfies the big three
condition then the question becomes why is it not included within the
category art?
Is art then just the existence of a one off situation? If as soon as the
computer assisted image is printed the programme is destroyed can it then
be considered art?
You do accept the possibility of a computer assisted image but then belittle
it as a form of cheating. Michelanglio was critiqued for a lack of
likeness to the sitter - it didn't matter to him - only the realisation
of form mattered.
So far as the artistic component of the artwork is concerned it does not
matter how it is achieved but in the market place where other factors enter
the equation it does matter.
Therefore a computer assisted image can be classified as art.
One further note on this point. Just as we have major master artists and
minor master artist and ordinary artists the inclusion of an image in the
category art does not mean it is a master piece. The quality of the work is
a separate issue
There is a tendency in the current market place to rank in terms of popular
value :
1) sculpture
2) oil
3) water
4) drawing
Yet they all contain attributes of art. Some drawings are better than some
sculptures. (I forget where prints go)
keith
Noumenon <ArtE...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3D29000E...@concentric.net...
Oliver Gili
"keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" <scot...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:7AmV8.4195$Ggf...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> I agree with your conclusion with regard to hand painted original art work
> and will add:
>
> The range of colour, texture, tone, quality and transparency in artist's
> pigments is greater than that of the printer's colour range. The range of
> human eye sensitivity is greater than the printer's colour range as well
as
> the artist's pigment range.
>
ago and now..... who is to say that a similar leap will not happen.
The thing about computers is that they offer new ways of exploring images,
distributing images, and displaying images......
> There are excellent abstract paintings and there are junk abstract
> paintings, just as there are excellent representational paintings and
there
> are junk representational paintings. Both styles can be created in a
variety
> of mediums.
indeed the computer is just another medium..... better at somethings, worse
than somethings
Oliver