Portrait Painting
MABusch
any portrait painters want to discuss, working and your own art, dealing
with clients, marketing, etc.
Rose Madder
In article <4qbt20$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, mab...@aol.com says...
>any portrait painters want to discuss, working and your own art, dealing
>with clients, marketing, etc.
Sure, but if you want a discussion, you need to start one by making
a statement that others can respond to.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ready, aim, fire !!!!!.
~ Rose Madder ~
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rose Madder
In article <4qbubs$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, Fugi...@large.com says...
>Sure, but if you want a discussion, you need to start one by making
>a statement that others can respond to.
Okay, here's something to chew on.
I have often felt that there is a lot of the artist in any portrait. I think this
is especially true of the beginning portrait artist. To test my theory, you
can do a portrait from scratch, without references, and see what turns
out. More often than not, it will resemble you to a large degree. I am not
talking here of cartooning. I am talking about attempting to sketch a
traditional facial portrait in as much detail as you are capable of.
The reason for this, it seems to me, is that we are the one we are most
familiar with -- it is us who we see in the mirror each time we look, and
we all look at ourselves more critically than we look at others -- usually.
Subconsciously we introduce some of our features into portraits we
attempt to do of others -- I think it is inevitable.
Many mature artists find children hard to do. Again it may be because
we fail to really observe children daily as we do our own adult features.
Without specific knowledge of how faces develop from birth to adolescence,
it is very difficult to draw a child correctly.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Childish and churlish . . .
Rose Madder
In article <4qc41n$p...@ns3.n-link.com>, game...@n-link.com says...
>If anyone can throw
>out some names of living representational figure and portrait artists for
>me to research, I'd appreciate it.
Well, it depends on your point of reference. If you are asking for
photorealist portraiture, I am not sure. But the leaders at the moment
in portraiture are artists like Chuck Close, Lucien Freud, and Francis
Bacon. The list of lesser artists working with portraits and figures
is endless. It might be more informative to ask if folks can recommend
some good books on currently working portrait artists.
> I'm not quite satisified with the amount of pigment in Liquitex
>acrylics, any suggestions on a brand of paint that has a denser
>structure?
I don't know what Liquitex compares to, but have you tried
the GOLDEN line? GOLDEN seems to be the acrylic of choice
for many discriminating artists. No plug here from me, because
I really don't know. I personally use all UTRECHT acrylic products,
and find them quite satisfactory. What I like about UTRECHT is
that I can buy in gallon quantities--especially the mediums are
useful in these quantities, and UTRECHT packages in plastic
containers that solves the old problem of rusty buckets that still
plagues many paint suppliers who ship in steel cans.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Coats of many colors . . .
Regiment's Hobby Shop
Fugi...@large.com (Rose Madder) wrote:
>Many mature artists find children hard to do. Again it may be because
>we fail to really observe children daily as we do our own adult features.
>Without specific knowledge of how faces develop from birth to adolescence,
>it is very difficult to draw a child correctly.
>--
>++++++++++++++++++++++++
> ~ Rose Madder ~
>++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
any subject hard to paint-lack of clarity in observation. In landscape
if I don't see a tree correctly and/or I am unable to translate my vision
onto the canvas, you'll never know it a month later. You'll see what you
want to see, in any case. If I mess up a nose or misplace the eyes,
you'll see it immediately, and won't be able to see past it. Even the
uneducated can point out what's wrong with a portrait. To me, portraits
are the most satisfying and challenging types of representational art
because the combination of technical ability and psychological depth in
a good portrait is always fascinating. I don't see many portraits (or
even much figure work) out there in galleries, journals, etc now-a-days.
Am I missing some good, unpublicized modern artists? If anyone can throw
me to research, I'd appreciate it.
representational drawing. To me, as a portrait and figure painter, the
idea that drawing ability is not necessary to the fine artist is
unfathomable. All art is communication between the artist and the viewer
and the responsiblity for establishing this communication rest with the
artist. Drawing ability gives the artist the technical means to
communicate.
On another note, I work in acrylic using a lot of glazes to achieve skin
tones. I'm not quite satisified with the amount of pigment in Liquitex
acrylics, any suggestions on a brand of paint that has a denser
structure? AT
Rose Madder
> If anyone can throw
>out some names of living representational figure and portrait artists for
>me to research, I'd appreciate it.
Since it's simply too darned hot here to do anything productive today,
I decided to find a library reference that you can ask for and hope your
local library has:
Bibliography on Portraiture : Selected Writings on Portraiture As an
Art Form and As Documentation (Library Reference)
by Irene Heppner(Compiler)
Hardcover
List: $215.00 -- Amazon.com Price: $215.00
Published by G K Hall
Publication date: January 1990
ISBN: 0816104816
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Melting like butter . . .
Dave Vranicar
Regiment's Hobby Shop <game...@n-link.com> wrote:
>... I work in acrylic using a lot of glazes to achieve skin
>tones. I'm not quite satisified with the amount of pigment in Liquitex
>acrylics, any suggestions on a brand of paint that has a denser
>structure? AT
I'm curious. I worked for years trying to do portraits in acrylics
and finally gave up for oils. How do you do it?
I found the value shift as the colors dry to be impossible to manage
for the kind of carefully modeled and subtly gradated skin tones that
appeal to me. The fast drying of the paints and glazes requires a
pace of application that makes it too hard for me to be careful of
brushwork and "drawing"--especially in large areas. To my eye, the
pigments look very "chemical" and too vivid for skin colors.
There are lots of books on the subject of painting portraits in
acrylics, but I've never seen one that shows portraits I wish I could
have painted. If you've developed a good technique, I'd appreciate
your describing it.
Also, do you find the Liquitex Modular color scale to be at all
useful?
Thanks.
alt.punk alt.music.ska alt.bukowski
Regiment's Hobby Shop
d...@atl.mindspring.com (Dave Vranicar) wrote:
>Regiment's Hobby Shop <game...@n-link.com> wrote:
>
>
>I'm curious. I worked for years trying to do portraits in acrylics
>and finally gave up for oils. How do you do it?
>
teachers did), so I learned to work very quickly and with lots of thin
washes, and that's the way I handle acrylics. Oils work too slow for me
and I end up with a muddy mess. Acrylics do shift in color quite a bit,
but since my technique involves constant layering, I'm continually
correcting. I also occasionly, about 2 or 3 times during the course of a
painting, varnish over the entire canvas with gloss medium or varnish.
The gloss intensifys the colors and keep the dry areas looking wet. It
also separates layers of colors and gives a "depth" to the paint, in much
the same way car painters layer on paint and laquer. Depending on the
pigment, acrylics dry either darker or more intense, I don't notice
colors fading or disappearing. Personally, I don't like acrylics when
used in an impasto, thick, palette knife style because when they dry they
look like Saran Wrap, and skin tones become opaque and Barbie dollish. In
the end my paintings are pretty tight, definately not photorealism, but
tight. AT
>I found the value shift as the colors dry to be impossible to manage
>for the kind of carefully modeled and subtly gradated skin tones that
>appeal to me.
The only way you're going to get perfect gradations by glazing in acrylic
is to either airbrush (too cold a method for good portraits) or load up
with an acrylic retarder, which will dilute the paint. Oils are probably
better for your technique, I don't see any point in fighting a medium.
Have you used aklyds or casiens (spelling shaky here)? I'm thinking of
buying a starter set in casiens and seeing if they will bridge the gap
between the speed and ease of acrylics and the blending ability of
oils.AT
The fast drying of the paints and glazes requires a
>pace of application that makes it too hard for me to be careful of
>brushwork and "drawing"--especially in large areas. To my eye, the
>pigments look very "chemical" and too vivid for skin colors.
I see palettes in books suggesting skin tones that seem to be based on
oil pigments. For instance, I see a purply crimson (alizeron? or rose
madder?) suggested and which I never use. It makes the subject look like
they're about to have a fit of apolexy. I don't use "flesh". I use burnt
sienna and white, and a warm palette (crimson, cad yellow, winsor blue,).
That's about it. I think the biggest error I see in skin tones is using
only "flesh" tones, and not using the rest of the spectrum. Flesh has
such an interesting quality of being transparent and pearly and you need
the entire palatte is you're going to capture that. AT
>
>There are lots of books on the subject of painting portraits in
>acrylics, but I've never seen one that shows portraits I wish I could
>have painted. If you've developed a good technique, I'd appreciate
>your describing it.
>
>Also, do you find the Liquitex Modular color scale to be at all
>useful?
Nope. To me, the only way to judge a color is to put it on the palette
and start working with it. AT
>
>Thanks.
>alt.punk alt.music.ska alt.bukowski
>
R. Alzofon
> any portrait painters want to discuss, working and your own art, dealing
> with clients, marketing, etc.
--------
MABusch,
Sure, the working, own art and dealing with clients part. Check my web
site to see my style first. I'd like to keep this discussion in the group.
Share the info with everyone. Lots to say. Pick an area and dive in. You
first.
--
R. Alzofon
http://art.net/Studios/Visual/Rebecca
ellie clemens
In article <4qc0dr$2...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, Fugi...@large.com (Rose Madder) says:
>
>In article <4qbubs$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, Fugi...@large.com says...
>
>>Sure, but if you want a discussion, you need to start one by making
>>a statement that others can respond to.
>
>Okay, here's something to chew on.
>
>I have often felt that there is a lot of the artist in any portrait. I think this
>is especially true of the beginning portrait artist. To test my theory, you
>can do a portrait from scratch, without references, and see what turns
>out. More often than not, it will resemble you to a large degree. I am not
>talking here of cartooning. I am talking about attempting to sketch a
>traditional facial portrait in as much detail as you are capable of.
>
>The reason for this, it seems to me, is that we are the one we are most
>familiar with -- it is us who we see in the mirror each time we look, and
>we all look at ourselves more critically than we look at others -- usually.
>Subconsciously we introduce some of our features into portraits we
>attempt to do of others -- I think it is inevitable.
I've thought this too, but I came to the realization when looking at portrait
sculptures done by students in a workshop I took. I think this self-portrait
tendency showed up even more in 3-d than in paintings. It was really quite
funny looking around the studio and seeing everyone's portraits of their own
heads. WOnder what the model thought.....
-ellie
Kajojacobs
>I have often felt that there is a lot of the artist in any portrait. I
think
>this
>is especially true of the beginning portrait artist.
Many, many years ago as a young military wife at a remote base, alone with
two little kids much of the time, I bought a beginners oil kit and signed
up for lessons on base for 25 cents each (the babysitter cost more than
that, even then!) Portraits were being taught at the time and I caught on
quickly. I was ecstatic when my first portrait was purchased by the model
for $20. I had the good sense to take a photo of it and am amazed how
much that young model looked like me, though I didn't realize it at the
time. I went on to copy old masters from prints (suitable for framing)
published in McCall's magazine. My copy of Rembrant's son"Titian" was
often, rightfully, mistaken for our first-born son. A couple of moves
later found us near D.C. where I made up for lost time and began a proper
art education.
I've seen this happen often in portraits, and not just beginning artists.
Thanks for opening the door to memory lane - K
Karen Jacobs
Painter / Multi-media
Rose Madder
In article <4qgr3h$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kajoj...@aol.com says...
>Thanks for opening the door to memory lane - K
Your welcome. Here is a personal story for you. You can take it
or leave it, and I must admit, I don't quite know what to make of it.
My mother is still living -- now approaching 90, but in good health
for someone her age. This story involves her.
When my dad was still living, I suggested to my mother that she
have her portrait done in pastels by an artist friend of mine who was
very good at capturing a likeness in one of those 30 minute poses.
He made his living at the time traveling around, setting up in shopping
malls, etc and doing portraits. My mom agreed and sought him out
at the nearby mall. Now, my mom had just lost her life-long best friend
to cancer. As she was sitting for her portrait, she had time to think
about her friend, and that is what she was doing as the artist
concentrated on capturing her likeness. When done, as is often the
case with people who sit for portraits, my mom thought the portrait
was "okay" but not a good likeness. What she did NOT see was
something that both my sisters and my brother saw instantly when
she showed the portrait to them -- I didn't see it until after I had already
heard their reaction. You probably are anticipating what I am going to
tell you. When they saw it, each independent of the other, they all
remarked on what an excellent likeness of GRACE, MY MOM'S
BEST FRIEND, that it was. Of course by the time I saw the portrait
I had already been told of my sibling's reaction, but nevertheless,
I WAS SHOCKED -- it was an EXACT likeness of Grace, as I
remembered her.
I told my artist friend that my mom was displeased with the likeness
and I told him the story just related to you, above. He agreed to re-draw
the portrait for free -- but the new attempt was even less like my mom,
an nothing like Grace, than the first attemp. I don't know what my mom
ever did with either portrait, but she didn't give them to my dad.
True story. . .
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We all make waves -- just by thinking . . .
~ Rose Madder ~
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rose Madder
> My copy of Rembrant's son"Titian" was
>often, rightfully, mistaken for our first-born son.
Something else that I have observed in the over 30 years that I have
been creatively pursuing the arts. When drawing or painting a portrait
of a young person -- child or early adolescent -- I have noticed a
tendency in many artists to "age" the child. The likeness will have
less childish features and more adult. The interesting thing is, often
times the "aging" is an accurate depiction of what the person will
actually look like a few years down the road, if you have the
opportunity to see the person later, and compare. The problem at
the time you are doing the portrait is one of convincing the person that
it IS a good likeness, even though it isn't as good as one would like.
I guess you could say the person has to "grow into" the portrait.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++
I wish age were as illusive . . .
Kajojacobs
In article <4qjfn6$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, Fugi...@large.com (Rose
Madder) writes:
>
>>Thanks for opening the door to memory lane - K
>
>Your welcome. Here is a personal story for you. You can take it
>or leave it, and I must admit, I don't quite know what to make of it.
Can't top that - Goosebumps! - K
Andrew Werby
>In article <4qc41n$p...@ns3.n-link.com>, game...@n-link.com says...
>
>>If anyone can throw
>>out some names of living representational figure and portrait artists for
>>me to research, I'd appreciate it.
>
>photorealist portraiture, I am not sure. But the leaders at the moment
>in portraiture are artists like Chuck Close, Lucien Freud, and Francis
>Bacon.
[Didn't Francis Bacon die a couple of years ago?]
Andrew Werby - United Artworks
Rose Madder
>[Didn't Francis Bacon die a couple of years ago?]
You're right.
In 1992, actually -- but his art lives on.
I guess that was what I was thinking about.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Living in the dead zone . . .
Ricardo Pontes
ANd what are the colors for making the teeth and the whites of the eyes.
My art teacher told me it was blue!
Ricardo Pontes
http://www.access.digex.net/~scorch/0.htm
(art site)
Regiment's Hobby Shop
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++How can i get a realistic tone for skin using oil paint?
>
>ANd what are the colors for making the teeth and the whites of the eyes.
>My art teacher told me it was blue!
>
>
>Ricardo Pontes
>http://www.access.digex.net/~scorch/0.htm
>(art site)
light or dark etc) I use a mixture of burnt sienna, blue (winsor or
ultramarine) and white to make a cool grey. To me, the trick to eyes and
teeth is finding the right value, not absolutely the right hue. I hate to
put it that way because it makes it sound like color isn't important, it
is, but the correct value will keep eyes and teeth from jumping off the
canvas. If your having trouble with flesh tones, it's probably because
youre not using the full range of hues inherent in flesh. As an
exercise one day, try doing a portrait sketch using all hues except for
"flesh". The idea is to learn what other colors you can use other than
burnt sienna and white, orange, etc.
AT
Ricardo Pontes
the teeth. Does this make a good combo.
I always make flesh tones out of burt sienna or burt umber, i forget
which. With white and orange(not too much orange)
Regiment's Hobby Shop
To me, turquoise and white will probably come out much too blue and
bright, try greying it down with a touch of burnt sienna.
>
>I always make flesh tones out of burt sienna or burt umber, i forget
>which. With white and orange(not too much orange)
That will work as a good base, depending on the skin tone of the subject,
but if you're using a darker version of burnt sienna and white to make
the deep tones to model the face with (eye sockets, sides/bottom of nose,
shadows etc), you won't be satisfied. Model with blue and/or green in
the cool shadows, dark reds and purples for the hot shadows. For an
extreme example, try looking at portraits by Cezanne or Van Gogh.
Lately, I've been studying JS Sergeant (wonderful skin tones!). You
might think they have nothing in common, but look closely.
AT
Bonnie Miller
I don't believe there is any "formula" for painting portraits or list of
colors. The list, as far as I'm concerned is unlimited. There are so
many factors involving lighting, the mood you want your subject to sit in,
and personal skin tones, to name a few, that influence your palette of
colors. On e mistake that I've seen fellow artists make in portrait
painting is to lay down your lightest skin tones too soon. The skin
looks pasty and has no life. I am most successful in putting in my
colors stronger than I see them and laying lighter values over them.
That's the way that skin naturally looks until light hits it.
Bonnyvil
Ricardo Pontes
> That will work as a good base, depending on the skin tone of the subject,
> but if you're using a darker version of burnt sienna and white to make
> the deep tones to model the face with (eye sockets, sides/bottom of nose,
> shadows etc), you won't be satisfied. Model with blue and/or green in
> the cool shadows, dark reds and purples for the hot shadows. For an
> extreme example, try looking at portraits by Cezanne or Van Gogh.
> Lately, I've been studying JS Sergeant (wonderful skin tones!). You
> might think they have nothing in common, but look closely.
>
> AT
I never used these colors on flesh. Im afraid if i use it i will get some wieird color
tone that i dont want. Blue on a face? Green, those sound like very alien things to
me. Is this a standard thing.
R. Alzofon
In article <31D7DD...@access.digex.net>, Ricardo Pontes
<sco...@access.digex.net> wrote:
> I never used these colors on flesh. Im afraid if i use it i will get
some wieird color
> tone that i dont want. Blue on a face? Green, those sound like very
alien things to
> me. Is this a standard thing.
Ricardo:
Try this test out. Make separate patches of color on paper mixing white
into each:
Terra Verte (Green Earth)
Raw Umber
Venetian Red
Burnt Sienna
Ivory Black
Yellow Ochre
Burnt umber
Also, try the blues suggested by people, and any other colors you've been
using in portrait work.
Make sure you get enough white into each color to match the value of your
skin, or a friend's skin.
Cut the patches out and compare the colors to the underside of your wrist,
so you can see the palm of your hand and arm and all the veins in your
wrist (lots of colors). Imagine blending two colors to get the perfect
match. Which two colors? Often, you will find that various combinations
can be excellent choices. For example, Terra Verte with Venetian Red seem
to work, yet, Raw Umber with Burnt Sienna might work too.
It should be apparent that blues, greens, and purples need not be seen in
full concentration to be called blues, greens, and purples. They can be
mixed into the neutral colors you think of as flesh tones to get the
complete color nuances you seek.
Moving from the wrist to the face, see if you can see the subtle shifts of
color. It won't be as dramatic as with your wrist, but it will be there.
For example, are the cheeks redder? If the cheeks seem to be more red,
then it would follow that other areas have less. In fact, due to the
absence of red, some areas might appear to have become greenish. This is
not to say that an area is green to the extreme, but it has become
greenish due to lack of reds. Typically, the muzzle area is cooler than
nose and cheeks, and you should find a color shift in the orbit area of
the eye. Sometimes it's greenish, sometimes violet or bluish.
This brings up the issue of simultaneous contrast. If you place a color
that has greater purity next to a color that is more neutral, the neutral
color will seem to be the complement of the more pure color that stands
next to it. Also, shadows will take on the complement of the color of the
light source. Some artists will use these ideas as the launch point for
extreme color interpretations. You can find all levels of interpretation
from extreme to subtle with this information. This is probably where your
teacher has come up with the suggestion of blue for whites of the eyes and
teeth. What your teacher is saying is, that these places seem more blue by
contrast to adjacent areas.
Some subtly minded artists take simultaneous contrast in another
direction. They make relatively neutral colors work on eachother to create
the illusion of wide color range. A palette for this type of painting
could include just four colors: Raw Umber, Venetian Red, White and Ivory
Black. How could this be achieved?
Ivory Black mixed with White acts as blue, so long as no strong blues are
present to compete. Raw Umber used as a transparent glaze works as the
yellow, so long as no strong yellows are present to compete. This palette
does work. I have portraits that are made with these four colors, and the
first color people guess that I used is yellow ochre, which is not in the
palette at all.
As a point of interest for you, if you would like to see how strong colors
can mix out to get flesh tones all the way from subtle to saturated, I
have a sample pastel figure drawing on my web site that includes pictures
of each pastel used in the drawing:
http://www.art.net/Studios/Visual/Rebecca/PortSample.html
------------
The explanation for these colors is on:
http://www.art.net/Studios/Visual/Rebecca/PorColorSets.html
------------
Also, among other paintings you might check, are the boy at:
http://www.art.net/Studios/Visual/Rebecca/Portraiture.html
This detail shows subtle inclusion of violets and greens. Not immediately
noticable.
------------
If you have follow up questions about what you saw, just post here.
Good luck in your studies.
--
R. Alzofon
http://art.net/~rebecca