Minimal Set of Watercolor Pigments
sl...@cc.usu.edu
>>Hmmm.
>>Id have to recommend a 14 color palette even to a beginner.
>>[clip]
>
> A 14 color palette is going to confuse any beginner.
Never underestimate the abilities of students.
It's condescending to do otherwise. If you've taught
for any period of time you'd find that there are a
lot of students out there who are smarter, better, and
possibly even more experienced than you.
>Learn simple
> triads and complements first. IE. Use three colors like indian
> red, yellow ochre, and blue black. Once you understand these then
> add the prismatic (bright) colors a few a time. Note that I
> recommend the black for learning purposes only, in general use
> black sparingly as it can dull your colors.
I say grab every color available and then play!
Ignore this monstrous analytic drivel. Go at it and paint
whatever you want, and be sensitive, just see what you can do
to the paint, how it reacts, gain as direct an experience as possible
as frequently as possible
Use black as much as you want.
> A hair dryer [clip] ...
is another tool. Have you ever gotten it close to the paper
to blow big puddles of paint around? Some cool stuff.
instead of using a hair dryer why not work on five or six sheets
of paper at once? while one is too wet you can work on others
until the wet is dry, etc. Rotate.
> Be sure to mix your colors on the palette and not the paper
> as that can lead to dull colors.
What's wrong with dull colors? Nothing.
Dull colors are as good as bright colors. Try out every color.
Invent new colors by mixing
When you're beginning everything is accidental and as you play
you'll figure out how to control the accidents eventually.
> ...light washes to dark (opposite of oil painting...[clip]
Shows you how much the poster knows about painting...
You can go light to dark or dark to light or medium to
inbetween whether you're using oils or watercolors or
gouache or tempera, AND you can get all the same
effects from whichever direction you want, if you
experiment enough to find out how.
What's so cool about paint is how flexible a medium
paint can be. So don't bind yourself with a
bunch of stupid rules that someone thinks
will help you. castor-oil medicine.
If you are following sets of rules, are you actually
experientially learning anything? Are you discovering
what paint can do or are you discovering what a set
of rules can do?
Greg Scheckler
SL...@cc.usu.edu
http://cc.usu.edu/~SL2LF/
jAxAs
>I say grab every color available and then play!
>Ignore this monstrous analytic drivel. Go at it and paint
>whatever you want, and be sensitive, just see what you can do
>to the paint, how it reacts, gain as direct an experience as possible
>as frequently as possible
>
>Use black as much as you want.
I've clipped a lot of your text, but the above seems to sum it up.
I would agree that the easiest way to learn watercolor MANIPULATION
is to PLAY with various watercolor papers and colors (pigments vs dyes).
The problem for many beginners is in trying to paint representationally
and produce a finished work in which the colors are naturalistic and the
forms likewise. Beginners fail to realize that watercolor is one of the most
difficult of mediums for rendering realistically in a 2-D format.
Working spontaneously is certainly playful, but it doesn't lend itself to
disciplined rendering. I would suggest an even more simplistic approach,
and that is one involving a "paint by the numbers" sort of rendering where
the BEGINNER uses a pen and ink outline (can even be a highly rendered
ink drawing) and then uses color to fill in and finish out the work. First and
foremost, the pen and ink drawing forces the beginner to PLAN out the
work ahead of time--an ESSENTIAL element of realistic watercolor
rendering, and not a bad idea for the abstract painter either.
In the matter of pallete. Most beginners are going to benefit from a
wide choice of colors only if they are not interested in learning how
watercolors of different formulations (dyes vs pigments) interact and
often FAIL to give the desired effect.
I'm starting to be redundant -- i'm outta here -- for the nonce ....
Jaxas -- mule"ing" again.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
back (see Eicher's note to Jaxas):
Hi-ho Jaxas whose name is so much fun to say.
>In article <1995May16.1...@cc.usu.edu>, sl...@cc.usu.edu says...
>>I say grab every color available and then play!
>>Ignore this monstrous analytic drivel. Go at it and paint
>>whatever you want, and be sensitive, just see what you can do
>>to the paint, how it reacts, gain as direct an experience as possible
>>as frequently as possible
>>
>>Use black as much as you want.
>I've clipped a lot of your text, but the above seems to sum it up.
Hey cool. I usually think I can't be "summed up" but it's nice to know
I'm consistent and that my ego's too big. Pop. whoosh bbbbbbbb
fluttering around the room and burping.
>I would agree that the easiest way to learn watercolor MANIPULATION
>is to PLAY with various watercolor papers and colors (pigments vs dyes).
>The problem for many beginners is in trying to paint representationally
>and produce a finished work in which the colors are naturalistic and the
>forms likewise. Beginners fail to realize that watercolor is one of the most
>difficult of mediums for rendering realistically in a 2-D format.
Contravox. Naaaaaaaahhh, don't think so. Oils used in a Holbein-like
glazing method are a lot harder for me, because I haven't the patience
to wait for all the layers to dry enough between glazes.
Watercolors seem to me a lot more like a very
quick and direct alla prima oil method, without the imprimatura. Well you can
have the imprimatura if you want, but then you have to wait a step.
For me, speed is of the essence, and the faster something goes, the easier
I do it and the more I like it (well, as far as art anyway). Perhaps for you
it's
the other way around? Maybe slower methods are easier, better?
Regarding MANIPULATION i think the hardest part for students is to
learn how to extrapolate/interpolate from their experiences of playing
with the media -- seeing how what they discover can be gently controlled
and turned into a "hey that's an apple" illusion reality echo, if that's what
they want. somethign else if they want that.
we usually get at that task by having a long discussion about tools
and things you can use them for other than their intended purposes...
leading towards more sophisticated subtle matter of art techniques as
tools, simple little gentle arm movements as proto-tools, etc., until
students can see logical connections and metaphors and how they may
design them into image-making strategies, and, paradoxically, are also
designed by them...
>Working spontaneously is certainly playful, but it doesn't lend itself to
>disciplined rendering.
You'll note that above somewhere I said "be sensitive" -- sensitive to what's
on while the student "plays." I was trying to hint at a sort of intelligent
play. (when you're really having fun you're being way smart) Check out some
of the writings by Mihalyi Cszikszentmihalyi (spelling?), from the University
of
Chicago, on the topic of states of maximal learning. He puts forward a good
case for the notion that when you are really having fun, you are actually
performing with great discipline and indeed, doing your best. autotelic.
>I would suggest an even more simplistic approach,
>and that is one involving a "paint by the numbers" sort of rendering wher
>the BEGINNER uses a pen and ink outline (can even be a highly rendered
>ink drawing) and then uses color to fill in and finish out the work. First and
>foremost, the pen and ink drawing forces the beginner to PLAN out the
>work ahead of time--an ESSENTIAL element of realistic watercolor
>rendering, and not a bad idea for the abstract painter either.
are you being serious here? I'm tired and can't tell.
All i can think of is how the ink will bleed all over the place
and cause even more frustration. Blech.
It's really an amazing part of our culture, isn't it though, that
drawing, painting, sculpting naturalistically and illusionistically
is so dominating a measure of quality in our art, for students,
and for so many "non-artists"... Verrochio and those guys really
drove a cultural wedge into the idea of art, didn't they?
>In the matter of pallete. Most beginners are going to benefit from a
>wide choice of colors only if they are not interested in learning how
>watercolors of different formulations (dyes vs pigments) interact and
>often FAIL to give the desired effect.
Hee-haw meow bark cockledoodledoo whatcha gonna do with
a lake or two?
Probably the biggest difference between what methods I use and
the methods of more traditional teachers is that I encourage
starting out with every available option, all of them, everywhere --
a strategy geared towards vast and wide grounding, plurality.
Then very gradually, day by day, working towards many paths
simultaneously in concert with one another. It sounds more
complex than it is. it allows for surprising, often jarring diversities
of aesthetics among students, so that they can easily see
their differences and learn from one another too.
Others encourage presenting the students with a few options
and then gradually building on those -- which they invariably
call "solid foundations" or "logical progressions" eventhough
a base created from one or two or a few points is far less
solid than a base of many many many points, and eventhough
to do so they must have decided what those initial points
are going to be and what steps go where to get to what
it gets all so planned out and so tyrannical.
Try balancing a hershey's kiss upside down and you'll know
what I mean.
Jim Felder
>
>>I say grab every color available and then play!
>>Ignore this monstrous analytic drivel. Go at it and paint
>>whatever you want, and be sensitive, just see what you can do
>>to the paint, how it reacts, gain as direct an experience as possible
>>as frequently as possible
>>
>>Use black as much as you want.
>
Don't tell this guy stuff like this. He may actually want to learn how to paint in watercolor instead of taking the standard "ignore=
the monstrous analytical drivel, do what you feel like" play-time approach. If he could afford to grab every color he wanted, he wo=
uldn't have asked how to make the best use of an abbreviated palette.
Watercolor is difficult enough without encouragement to FORGET about the discipline that is absolutely necessary to make it work.
The original poster may be confused by some of the conflicting advice he has gotten, but it's his responsibility as an artist--in an=
y medium--to figure out how to put it to use. And, IMHO, he's gotten more good advice from his asking than most people ever get.
Jim "I survived the egalitarian bullshit of the 60s" Felder
Joseph F. McElroy
>Probably the biggest difference between what methods I use and
>the methods of more traditional teachers is that I encourage
>starting out with every available option, all of them,
>everywhere --
(clip)
>Others encourage presenting the students with a few options
>and then gradually building on those -- which they invariably
>call "solid foundations" or "logical progressions"
>Try balancing a hershey's kiss upside down and you'll know
>what I mean.
I think your method is probably wonderful for the people
involved with it but the problem with your strategy is that
without someone experienced around to help guide the novice, the
novice will be overwhelmed by all the diversity and won't be able
to see the path to order. A genius of course could do it, but
most people are not geniuses. In the absense of a mentor, a
proscribed course of study is probably the best way. A great
creative person will break free of the constaints, regardless of
the method.
--
Joseph F. McElroy. A resident of Philadelphia, PA. An artist,
software and programming consultant, actor, poet, corporate
president. Graduate of Duke University and the Pennsylvania
Academy of Fine Arts. 33 years old. 6'5" 275 lb. Good looking.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
>>In article <1995May16.1...@cc.usu.edu>, sl...@cc.usu.edu says...
>>
>>>I say grab every color available and then play!
>>>Ignore this monstrous analytic drivel. Go at it and paint
>>>whatever you want, and be sensitive, just see what you can do
>>>to the paint, how it reacts, gain as direct an experience as possible
>>>as frequently as possible
>>>
>>>Use black as much as you want.
>>
>
> Don't tell this guy stuff like this.
Anyone who posts a message publicly should be prepared to get responses
and messages completely different than what they at first imagined...
that includes scaredy-boy Mr. Felder, who apparently, would prefer me
not to say certain things.
> He may actually want to learn how to paint in watercolor instead of
> taking the standard "ignore=
> the monstrous analytical drivel, do what you feel like" play-time approach.
you may read my previous response posts which ought to flesh out
the matter a little bit.
your phrase "he may actually want to learn how to paint in watercolor"
first insinuates that my suggestions do not consitute "actual" learning.
This is a common response from people who fail to understand the
psychology of learning and the importance of play. They think play is
not serious, not able to be "real" learning, etc. Such criticism,
ignores the fact that humans learn very effectively by constant
and fun repetition. The more fun, the greater the learning, believe it
or not. The more fun, the more likely the student will reach a state
of autotelic learning, where the learning is maximally effective.
The second problem with the phrase "he may actually want to learn
how to paint in watercolor" is the implication that there is one
way to learn how to use watercolors. This is the greater danger of
what Mr. Felder has said. Soory, buttThere is no one right way,
not even if you want to learn how to use watercolors to make
illusions of and allusions to the natural world.
There are a multitude of ways to learn, use, and discover watercolor.
> Watercolor is difficult enough without encouragement to FORGET about
> the discipline that is absolutely necessary to make it work.
You can make things as hard on yourself as you want. You can flagellate
yourself with your absolutisms if you want. I for one, refuse to
submit myself to this constant notion that painting has to be so hard.
Watercolor is easy: You have paint, made from a few different sorts
of binders and types of pigments. You have water. You have a prepared
surface, typically paper. Some brushes. You can combine those tools
in many ways, in many degrees of subtlety or brutishness, and you
can add other tools as needed.
That's about it.
>[clip]
> Jim "I survived the egalitarian bullshit of the 60s" Felder
^^^ only to replace it with
his oh so paternal wisdom oh boy
Joseph F. McElroy
>Never underestimate the abilities of students.
>It's condescending to do otherwise. If you've taught
>for any period of time you'd find that there are a
>lot of students out there who are smarter, better, and
>possibly even more experienced than you.
Hi Greg. Do you have some sort of vendetta against people
who attempt to analyze. Maybe you have some problem doing
this yourself? Tell me what exactly are you teaching if
it is ok for a student to do anything they want? It seems
to me that this might constitute some sort of fraud. "Oh,
I am teaching them how to be free". Now who is being
condescending? Teach them how to do processes, don't give
them your version of Xanadu. Arrogant bastard.
I have never been stupid or silly enough to think there
are laws to abide by in making art. Though you seem to think
the law should be that anybody suggesting some rational
approach to learning should be shot.
Hey, I just don't get the hostility. Whats with you?
>I say grab every color available and then play!
>Ignore this monstrous analytic drivel. Go at it and paint
>whatever you want, and be sensitive, just see what you can do
>to the paint, how it reacts, gain as direct an experience as
>possible as frequently as possible
Do you know why most people have low opinions of painters? Why
they say painting is dead?
We have the above "teachers" to champion us. Yea team.
>Use black as much as you want.
Yes, but KNOW or FEEL why you are using it. Don't just throw it
down because it is there on your pallet. Yea, at first throw it
down to know what it does, but learn. Learn. Analyze and/or Feel
depending upon your temperment.
>is another tool. Have you ever gotten it close to the paper
>to blow big puddles of paint around? Some cool stuff.
>instead of using a hair dryer why not work on five or six sheets
>of paper at once? while one is too wet you can work on others
>until the wet is dry, etc. Rotate.
Have you ever worked on wrinkled paper. Or caused the hair dryer
to make burns. Have you ever you ever worked on comic strips for
paper. Have youever painted everything black then white then black
then white again?
Experimentation is assumed for any intelligent and creative person.
My initial response was to give someone remote from a simple
process to follow so that they can overcome any fears and then find
themselves. I have no idea who is there to help them or mentor
their progress or to encourage them to overcome fears. In a
sitation like that, simplicity is a very important tool. Students
who work with me (yes I have taught) do get to experiment any
way they wish because I encourage them to overcome that initial
fear by praising things that develop and pointing out things that
they have learned (sometime things they are not aware of). Novices
who are teaching themselves need to get a feeling of accomplishment
so that they then will go to next step of interacting with other
artists who then should be able to encourage them to be more free.
>What's wrong with dull colors? Nothing.
>Dull colors are as good as bright colors. Try out every color.
>Invent new colors by mixing
>When you're beginning everything is accidental and as you play
>you'll figure out how to control the accidents eventually.
Dull colors are good if you know what they are doing for you. But
most people surrounding a novice artist in a non-school situation
are going to react positively to brightness and colorfulness.
This positive reaction will help a novice keep the internal
momentum he/she needs to keep going.
>Shows you how much the poster knows about painting...
>You can go light to dark or dark to light or medium to
>inbetween whether you're using oils or watercolors or
>gouache or tempera, AND you can get all the same
>effects from whichever direction you want, if you
>experiment enough to find out how.
Yea, you can paint with coffee or mud too. I was just giving some
simple methods to learn by. Remember, you ARE NOT THERE helping
this student. You have only words to give them. Let them gain
confidence with some methods then tell them to loose it all again.
>What's so cool about paint is how flexible a medium
>paint can be. So don't bind yourself with a
>bunch of stupid rules that someone thinks
>will help you. castor-oil medicine.
Rules are not stupid. Stupidity arises from following them blindly.
Or rejecting them out of hand. They did not arise in a vacume. Are
you suggesting that all the centuries of painters and artists before
you were idiots? Arrogant indeed.
>If you are following sets of rules, are you actually
>experientially learning anything? Are you discovering
>what paint can do or are you discovering what a set
>of rules can do?
You know I find it kind of ironic that an artist who decided to
take his art to acadamia is calling an artist, who lives in the
hood in Philadelphia, rule bound and stupid.
Chow.
jAxAs
>Watercolor is easy:
And so is play. And playing with watercolors is even easier perhaps.
But I challenge the notion that producing a remarkable watercolor
painting is anything akin to easy. Perhaps there are those rare
individuals who can have mastery over a medium without even
trying, but I haven't ever met one. If you think that bleeding color
wet into wet on a piece of paper is "creative" then you will also abide
the notion that lower animals can produce "works of art."
JaXaS -- We Texans breed cattle and artists.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
> In article <1995May20.1...@cc.usu.edu>, sl...@cc.usu.edu says...
>
>>Watercolor is easy:
>
> And so is play. And playing with watercolors is even easier perhaps.
>
hey do you like Legos? all those little building blocks that you can
put together, to make something fantastic out of, to build beyond the
character of the block?
when I say that watercolor is easy, don't forget the colon (:)
followed by short list of variables. Watercolor is easy because it has
only a few variables. simple. devilishly simple. A brush, some water,
some pigment, and probably prepared paper that's it.
all the imagination, the same imagination that it takes to build a
fantastic space ship from legos (when you cease following the little
directions from the box) is what's required to go beyond those basic
elements of watercolor painting.
> But I challenge the notion that producing a remarkable watercolor
> painting is anything akin to easy. Perhaps there are those rare
> individuals who can have mastery over a medium without even
> trying, but I haven't ever met one. If you think that bleeding color
> wet into wet on a piece of paper is "creative" then you will also abide
> the notion that lower animals can produce "works of art."
>
> JaXaS -- We Texans breed cattle and artists.
So far as i understand, the point of mastery of an activity is for
that activity to become easy, even instinctual, to be done with great
ease, naturalness.
my general take on the matter therefore, is to stop trying so hard
and start letting things get easy. easy does not mean careless.
what's so great about art is not how much skill we have to gain
but how much we have to lose!
Greg Scheckler
SL...@cc.usu.edu
http://cc.usu.edu/~sl2lf/
^^^^^^^^ those are L's not 1's (ones)
>
sl...@cc.usu.edu
> Gary S. wrote:
^^^^ That would be Greg S.
>
>>Probably the biggest difference between what methods I use and
>>the methods of more traditional teachers is that I encourage
>>starting out with every available option, all of them,
>>everywhere --
> (clip)
>>Others encourage presenting the students with a few options
>>and then gradually building on those -- which they invariably
>>call "solid foundations" or "logical progressions"
>
>>Try balancing a hershey's kiss upside down and you'll know
>>what I mean.
>
> I think your method is probably wonderful for the people
> involved with it but the problem with your strategy is that
> without someone experienced around to help guide the novice, the
> novice will be overwhelmed by all the diversity and won't be able
> to see the path to order.
that's the same problem with every course. the teacher/facilitator/
trail guide, etc. must not be a novice.
it's really a problem we all run into when trying to give
people advice through usenet news... the visuals are missing,
the tactile feel of the brush or the paper. we've got text.
> A genius of course could do it, but
> most people are not geniuses. In the absense of a mentor, a
> proscribed course of study is probably the best way.
actually i'd say most people are geniuses. but that's another
set of posts.
the words "proscribed course of study" frighten me.
who proscribes it? who designs it? what do they know?
is a proscribed course of study really an adequate replacement
for a "mentor"? Why the value-emphasis on mentorship?
i therefore urge all participants in this newsgroup to
contest and question any advice given to them on any topic,
BUT try out the advice, test it out on painterly grounds if
the advice is about painting, etc. see what happens. question
this advice too.
> A great
> creative person will break free of the constaints, regardless of
> the method.
I sure hope so. At least then the rest of us non-greats wouldn't
be so alone in our consistent breaking through of constraints.
Greg Scheckler
SL...@cc.usu.edu
http://cc.usu.edu/~sl2lf/
^^^ those are L's not ones.
Joseph F. McElroy
>effectively by constant and fun repetition. The more fun, the
>greater the learning, believe it or not. The more fun, the more
>likely the student will reach a state of autotelic learning,
>where the learning is maximally effective.
Gary, you constantly repeat the fact that play is good, that
learning can be fun, that no rules are necessary and I think
that most people would agree that this can be a great way to
learn. But you are not listening to anyone else's point of view.
Some people find great comfort in starting from simplicity and
then building to complexity. Just because you don't and you have
all sorts of studies to back up your point of view does not alter
that fact. I personally had a great window open for me when I
simplified my palette and used just three colors. All your
spouting off about the value of freedom does not change that.
I relay this information in the hopes that others find it useful.
You relay your information with the mission to enlighten the
world with your point of view. Get off that high horse man and
allow true freedom to reign. That means the you can do things
freely OR you can use rules if you want to.
Wray Kephart
X Do you know why most people have low opinions of painters? Why
X they say painting is dead?
Because they dont realize that painting comments upon history <memory>
and like time is circular.
Kephart
Joseph F. McElroy
>the words "proscribed course of study" frighten me.
>who proscribes it? who designs it? what do they know?
>is a proscribed course of study really an adequate replacement
>for a "mentor"? Why the value-emphasis on mentorship?
The first person you meet who's work you like, ask him/her how
they did it and what steps they took. If you can, get a
demonstration. Follow their rules, their steps until you do
something you like. Then find someone else to learn from. All
the time, experiment with variations of the rules and techniques.
Finally, someday will ask you to demonstrate to them. You do this
and then watch and learn from what they do with what you showed
them. Building anything (and that includes skills and ideas) is
done with the help and work of many people. By yourself, you
cannot build a castle to live in, no matter how many sand castles
you make. Sure, you can make a beautiful and stunning sand
castle. But you will never live in it and it washes away with the
tide. (There is nothing wrong with that and some people enjoy
that thought, but I wish to try and build a castle to live in).
Genius is a product of ability and hard work. Most people have
one and can aquire the other, but don't.