ARTIST/ 600 lawyers in service to Giuliani's police state
DFRussell
>Every day more and more New Yorkers recognize the serious threat
>Mayor Giuliani and ‘Giuliani-ism’ represents to freedom.
>Unfortunately, criticism of the Mayor focuses on his personality, as
>if his repressive policies were simply the result of a psychological
>trait. What few New Yorkers grasp is the key role an obscure City
>agency plays in carrying out the Giuliani agenda. If not for the
>efforts of the more than 600 lawyers working for the Corporation
>Counsel, Giuliani’s violations of our rights would be impossible.
Balance of leftist whining deleted.
So, what's the deal here? Are you trying to "overturn an election"?
I mean, he was elected right?
And, geee..., he seems pretty popular in New York for having committed
all of these horrible things you say he's guilty of....?
You don't suppose that maybe, well, most of the people in New York are
happy that he's done what he has?
Charles Eicher
AH.. I was just waiting to see when Lederman would reappear. It was
inevitable. And now, I know EXACTLY what the guy is all about.
A few months ago, I saw M.R. A.R.T.I.S.T., Lederman on CNN. You know the
CNN reporter who reports on the kooky stories in NYC? Well, she did a
segment on Lederman. Only it wasn't about his political activities, it was
a piece of sheer self-promotion by Lederman. Lederman was displaying his
satiric "paintings" of Giuliani. I use the term "painting" loosely, only in
the sense that they involved the application of paint to a surface.
Lederman was selling paintings of Giuliani made on cardboard boxes and
newspapers. The paintings were copied from newspaper and magazine
illustrations, and sold out of a makeshift gallery. Lederman was clearly
using the A.R.T.I.S.T activities as a means to self-promotion for his own
money-making activities. He was mass-producing the paintings, and selling
them for $50. He's trying to be a NYC version of Robbie Conal, except that
Conal knew how to paint and Lederman doesn't.
So, we can pretty much disregard anything this hypocrite Lederman has to
say. He is only using the political cause to make a fast buck, and promote
himself as an artist. Truly pathetic. There is nothing more sickening than
someone like Lederman who would take a bunch of homeless junkies and winos,
organize them and tell them they're artists, and then exploit them for
one's own personal gain.
----------------
Charles Eicher
cei...@inav.net
----------------
DFRussell
>In article <362e735e...@news.mindspring.com>, nobody@localhost wrote:
>
>> artis...@aol.com (ARTISTpres) wrote:
>> >Every day more and more New Yorkers recognize the serious threat
>> >Mayor Giuliani and ‘Giuliani-ism’ represents to freedom.
>> >Unfortunately, criticism of the Mayor focuses on his personality, as
>> >if his repressive policies were simply the result of a psychological
>> >trait. What few New Yorkers grasp is the key role an obscure City
>> >agency plays in carrying out the Giuliani agenda. If not for the
>> >efforts of the more than 600 lawyers working for the Corporation
>> >Counsel, Giuliani’s violations of our rights would be impossible.
>>
>> Balance of leftist whining deleted.
>>
>> So, what's the deal here? Are you trying to "overturn an election"?
>> I mean, he was elected right?
>>
>> And, geee..., he seems pretty popular in New York for having committed
>> all of these horrible things you say he's guilty of....?
>>
>> You don't suppose that maybe, well, most of the people in New York are
>> happy that he's done what he has?
>
>
>AH.. I was just waiting to see when Lederman would reappear. It was
>inevitable. And now, I know EXACTLY what the guy is all about.
Precisely! At last, someone else gets it!
I made this point months ago. He's essentially screwed all the people
who he claims to support for money. That's all it's ever been for
him.
Charles Eicher
> Precisely! At last, someone else gets it!
>
> I made this point months ago. He's essentially screwed all the people
> who he claims to support for money. That's all it's ever been for
> him.
I made these same observations a few months ago too, just before I plonked
this nutball. But its always nice to have incontrovertible evidence. So
I'll leave my assessment in this reply..
Andrew Werby
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
> A few months ago, I saw M.R. A.R.T.I.S.T., Lederman on CNN. You know the
> CNN reporter who reports on the kooky stories in NYC? Well, she did a
> segment on Lederman. Only it wasn't about his political activities, it was
> a piece of sheer self-promotion by Lederman. Lederman was displaying his
> satiric "paintings" of Giuliani. I use the term "painting" loosely, only in
> the sense that they involved the application of paint to a surface.
> Lederman was selling paintings of Giuliani made on cardboard boxes and
> newspapers. The paintings were copied from newspaper and magazine
> illustrations, and sold out of a makeshift gallery. Lederman was clearly
> using the A.R.T.I.S.T activities as a means to self-promotion for his own
> money-making activities. He was mass-producing the paintings, and selling
> them for $50. He's trying to be a NYC version of Robbie Conal, except that
> Conal knew how to paint and Lederman doesn't.
[I fail to see how Mr.Lederman's producing some paintings (and trying to sell
them- horrors!) invalidates anything he has said or done on behalf of street
artists. If he got a little press as a result, I say more power to him. I
certainly can't accuse him of overcharging for his work. Since most of what
he paints gets (illegally) confiscated by the cops, I can't blame him for
using inexpensive materials. Considering what passes for painting in New York's
finest galleries, I don't think Mr. Lederman can be condemned according to the
"contemporary community standards" test either.]
> So, we can pretty much disregard anything this hypocrite Lederman has to
> say. He is only using the political cause to make a fast buck,
[At $50 a pop, it's not exactly going to put him on Easy Street any time soon.
He has evidently been giving a great deal of time and energy to his cause,
what's the matter with putting some brushes and paint to work?]
and promote
> himself as an artist. Truly pathetic. There is nothing more sickening than
> someone like Lederman who would take a bunch of homeless junkies and winos,
> organize them and tell them they're artists, and then exploit them for
> one's own personal gain.
>
> ----------------
> Charles Eicher
> cei...@inav.net
> ----------------
[There is. Hearing the self-satisfied pontificate at the expense of the
unfortunate is infinitely more sickening.]
Andrew Werby
UNITED ARTWORKS- Sculpture, Jewelry, and other art stuff
http://unitedartworks.com
New- Artworks Computer Tools for 3d Design and Realization
Charles Eicher
dre...@lanminds.com (Andrew Werby) wrote:
> [I fail to see how Mr.Lederman's producing some paintings (and trying to sell
> them- horrors!) invalidates anything he has said or done on behalf of street
> artists. If he got a little press as a result, I say more power to him.
That's not the point. When he got his little moment in the spotlight, he
used to to promote himself and make a fast buck, rather than use it to
publicise his A.R.T.I.S.T. campaign. So its easy to see what he really puts
first: himself and his bank account. It has never been about art, its
always been about money.. LEDERMAN's money.
> I certainly can't accuse him of overcharging for his work. Since most of what
> he paints gets (illegally) confiscated by the cops, I can't blame him for
> using inexpensive materials. Considering what passes for painting in New
York's
> finest galleries, I don't think Mr. Lederman can be condemned according
to the
> "contemporary community standards" test either.]
"Community Standards" is a term usually heard in pornography cases.
Lederman's paintings are not condemned for pornography. But by anyone's
standards, they are pretty poor paintings. Even worse, he's plagiarizing
Robbie Conal.
I don't know if anyone knows about Robbie Conal, if they didn't live in LA
in the 1980s. He did a wildly popular series of posters that were plastered
all over town. They were caricatures of political figures, painted in black
and white, with one or two word slogans printed on them. They pretty much
stayed up all over town, as long as they were satirizing Reagan and
national politics. But when he did a caricature of the LAPD Police Chief
Darryl Gates, the LAPD went out of their way to try to bust him and the
people hanging the posters. The city government had them ripped down as
fast as they were put up. But by that time, most of the posters were being
removed as fast as they were mounted.. by art-lovers who were taking them
home and framing them! Oftentimes, people who were putting up posters were
accosted by people asking for copies.. which they gladly provided.
So, I take it back. There IS something worse than a hypocrite who exploits
the poor and homeless for their own personal gain. What is worse is when
someone does this, and also plagiarizes another artist in the process.
G*rd*n
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
| > So, we can pretty much disregard anything this hypocrite Lederman has to
| > say. He is only using the political cause to make a fast buck,
dre...@lanminds.com (Andrew Werby):
| [At $50 a pop, it's not exactly going to put him on Easy Street any time soon.
| He has evidently been giving a great deal of time and energy to his cause,
| what's the matter with putting some brushes and paint to work?]
Besides, the appearance of people like Lederman are a
natural response to Giuliani's fascistic policies and
actions, just as the Million Youth March and the taxi
strike were. I don't know why the people who support
Giuliani can't get this together in their minds: if
your great leader goes around bashing various groups
of people, eventually his targets are going to try to
strike back.
"Cet animal est tres mechant,
Quand on l'attaque il se defend."
(This animal is truly vicious. When
someone attacks it, it defends itself.)
--
}"{ G*rd*n }"{ g...@panix.com }"{
{ http://www.etaoin.com | latest new material 10/8} <-adv't
CONNART200
in his efforts to insure that artists enjoy the same first amendment rights the
the Newspapers enjoy in New York City (Paper vending machines on sidewalks).
Giuliani had his lawyers claim in court that visual arts are not effective
communications like the other art form and thus did not enjoy first amendment
rights. Giuliani and the total control he represents is an immediate threat to
New York Artists, Cab Drivers, and Street Food Vendors, In the future Giuliani
will be a threat to our society when he seeks the Presidency. We really need to
go to work against this man's next campaign for mayor in 1999.
DFRussell
>| ...
>
>cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
>| > So, we can pretty much disregard anything this hypocrite Lederman has to
>| > say. He is only using the political cause to make a fast buck,
>
>dre...@lanminds.com (Andrew Werby):
>| [At $50 a pop, it's not exactly going to put him on Easy Street any time soon.
>| He has evidently been giving a great deal of time and energy to his cause,
>| what's the matter with putting some brushes and paint to work?]
>
>Besides, the appearance of people like Lederman are a
>natural response to Giuliani's fascistic policies and
>actions,
So.... you're saying that Giuliani's policies make hucksters appear?
[snip]
DFRussell
>In my opinion Lederman is fighting our battles for us.
"Us"? He's certainly not doing anything for me. Very few people
other than himself, I'd wager.
No matter. Support him all you wish.
I would ask only one question: Where has his stupidity gotten the
people he allegedly represents?
G*rd*n
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
| >| > So, we can pretty much disregard anything this hypocrite Lederman has to
| >| > say. He is only using the political cause to make a fast buck,
dre...@lanminds.com (Andrew Werby):
| >| [At $50 a pop, it's not exactly going to put him on Easy Street any time soon.
| >| He has evidently been giving a great deal of time and energy to his cause,
| >| what's the matter with putting some brushes and paint to work?]
g...@panix.com (G*rd*n) wrote:
| >Besides, the appearance of people like Lederman are a
| >natural response to Giuliani's fascistic policies and
| >actions,
nobody@localhost:
| So.... you're saying that Giuliani's policies make hucksters appear?
More accurately, they create a need for people whose
primary functions and goals aren't art (or taxi-driving, or
whatever) but something more like political leadership.
Political leadership is called "political leadership" by
those who agree with the politics and "huckstering" or
"demogogy" by those who disagree with it. But the need for
it arises because of a political attack on a given group of
people, e.g. Giuliani's habit of picking on groups of
people he thinks he can get away with picking on.
DFRussell
[snip]
>More accurately, they create a need for people whose
>primary functions and goals aren't art (or taxi-driving, or
>whatever) but something more like political leadership.
>Political leadership is called "political leadership" by
>those who agree with the politics and "huckstering" or
>"demogogy" by those who disagree with it.
Nope. That's not at all what we're talking about. Politics is
politics. Lederman is a huckster. That is, he's in it for *his*
personal gain. Period.
[Obligatory excuses for Lederman's failures to do anything
constructive for the people he claims to represent snipped]
We've seen this loop before. Lederman is a scam artist and not worth
the effort of going through it again. All followups ignored.
G*rd*n
| >More accurately, they create a need for people whose
| >primary functions and goals aren't art (or taxi-driving, or
| >whatever) but something more like political leadership.
| >Political leadership is called "political leadership" by
| >those who agree with the politics and "huckstering" or
| >"demogogy" by those who disagree with it.
nobody@localhost:
| Nope. That's not at all what we're talking about. Politics is
| politics. Lederman is a huckster. That is, he's in it for *his*
| personal gain. Period.
| ...
Artists or political agents can't be involved in anything
for their personal gain? I find this view rather curious.
In any case, how do you know what's in Lederman's mind?
The fact that he's not very effective may mean only that
he's incompetent as a political leader. And what difference
does it make, anyway?
I've changed my mind about Giuliani since we last discussed
Lederman. I used to think he was just playing up to the
squares and the bigots out in television-land. (He does
have national political ambitions.) But now, I see
Giuliani as an compulsive authoritarian who _has_ to be
kicking someone around. The more people resist him -- even
if they do so stupidly -- the longer it'll take for him to
get around to me.
Mattison
: In my opinion Lederman is fighting our battles for us. He should be supproted
You forgot the Gay and Lesbian culture.
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodev.com/M
HELLO All you sexe' NY'ers!