Quality Question: Watercolors & Guache
David Markowitz
I'm wondering about the relative quality of the brands of guache and
watercolor I have available to me locally. I'm wondering if there is an
appreciable difference in permanence, pigment quality & density between
these brands:
Watercolor (moist, tubes):
Windsor & Newton "Artist's"
W&N "Cotman" line
Grumbacher
Utrecht
Guache:
Linel "Designer's colors"
W&N "Designer's Colors"
Thanks in advance!
Dave
Charles Eicher
In article <4nler6$9...@netnews.upenn.edu>, dmar...@dept.english.upenn.edu
(David Markowitz) wrote:
> I'm wondering about the relative quality of the brands of guache and
> watercolor I have available to me locally. I'm wondering if there is an
> appreciable difference in permanence, pigment quality & density between
> these brands:
>
> Watercolor (moist, tubes):
> Windsor & Newton "Artist's"
> W&N "Cotman" line
> Grumbacher
> Utrecht
W&N 'Cotman' used to be labeled student grade. It is inferior. I think
grumbacher makes a student grade too. All the pigments you list are only
of average quality. Top brands are from companies like Holbein or
Sennelier. These top quality brands are usually ground much finer, have a
purer pigment AND binder. Just to give you an example, if you buy a bottle
of W&N liquid gum arabic (the binder they put in watercolor), W&N will
often be brownish, or have a thick brown sludge on the top. This is an
inferior grade of gum. Holbein gum arabic is always pure white.
Look for the words 'Fine' or 'Extra-fine' as a grading on the tube. Watch
out for misleading terms like 'artist grade' or which doesn't mean
anything, except to distinguish from an even lower 'student grade' from
the same manufacturer. Another good test is to look at a really expensive
pigment like Cobalt Violet. If it says 'manganese violet' in the fine
print, its fake cobalt violet, and is an inferior grade, and is probably
pretty cheap. If it really has real cobalt in it, it will probably be
expensive, but is a good sign that the manufacturer really cares about
quality pigment.
----------------
Charles Eicher
cei...@inav.net
----------------
mcol...@frontiernet.net
In article <ceicher-1905...@dip33.inav.net>, cei...@inav.net
(Charles Eicher) wrote:
Daniel Smith watercolors? Are they closer to W&N or more like Holbein in
quality?
Charles Eicher
In article <mcolling-190...@usr5-119.frontiernet.net>,
mcol...@frontiernet.net wrote:
> Daniel Smith watercolors? Are they closer to W&N or more like Holbein in
> quality?
hmm.. I've never used them. I usually avoid 'house brands' but then, I
don't use huge amounts of watercolor so cost isn't an issue.
Usually, these 'house brands' are made by someone else, I have no idea
who.. Maybe you could call them and ask? I know that Daniel Smith sells
Holbein, so you might just ask them for an honest comparison. I'm sure
they wouldn't mind admitting if their stuff was a lower grade, if they
sell something superior that maybe they could talk you into buying...
Elisabeth St-Cyr
David Markowitz (dmar...@dept.english.upenn.edu) writes:
> I'm wondering about the relative quality of the brands of guache and
> watercolor I have available to me locally. I'm wondering if there is an
> appreciable difference in permanence, pigment quality & density between
> these brands:
>
> Watercolor (moist, tubes):
> Windsor & Newton "Artist's"
> W&N "Cotman" line
> Grumbacher
> Utrecht
>
> Linel "Designer's colors"
> W&N "Designer's Colors"
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Dave
Borrow a copy, if you can, of the Wilcox Guide to Watercolor Paints (I say
borrow, rather than buy, since Winsor & Newton have recently changed a lot
of their line, discontinuing some paints, introducing new, supposedly more
lightfast pigments.) To make sweeping statements that an entire line of
paints is better than another is oversimplified. Some Holbein (the
Aureolin I purchased, for example), is inferior to the W & N. Aureolin.
Now, I check the book first. Price used to be a good indicator, but a lot
of the Winsor & Newton line is simply overpriced.
Happy Painting.
Elisabeth.
Helen Bakk
In article <ceicher-1905...@dip52.inav.net>, cei...@inav.net says...
>hmm.. I've never used them. I usually avoid 'house brands' but then, I
>don't use huge amounts of watercolor so cost isn't an issue.
For those who don't know Daniel Smith's history as a business, they
began as a MANUFACTURING company, making inks. It was only later
that they expanded their line to include other mediums. Apparently they
found their niche in the business world as a supplier of other manufacturers
products. For several years the emphasis of the business seemed to be
mail order. More recently, Daniel Smith has begun manufacturing a more
complete line of artist's colors, including oils and watercolors and according
to their advertising, they feel their quality and quality control is every bit
as good as the best -- an may well be. Their products are every bit as good
as those of other major manufacturers -- IMHO.
Quoting from their catalog: "Daniel Smith Finest Oil Colors absolutely meet
or exceed the standards set by the finest grades produced anywhere in the world."
--
******************************************
I am a customer, not a stockholder
of Daniel Smith.
~ Helen Bakk ~ I am NOT E-mailable.
*******************************************
Andrew Werby
Shawn McBride <'wes...@salsgiver.com'> wrote:
>I'm looking to set up a coffee house situation (or get involved in
>one) over the 'net using the chat-room format of real time
>conversation about art. Anyone interested? C'mon, the ol' modernists
>would've done it if they had this stuff to play with.
>
>wes...@salsgiver.com
>http://www.salsgiver.com/wesayso
>(fine art link)
[I don't know what you have to say in "real time" that would evaporate
with the time delay factor of this newsgroup. We seem to have a hard
enough time attracting people with interesting things to say without
addding additional time constraints. If you really want to talk about
art in a coffee-house in real time, why not just go to one and do it?
If there is something you want to write about art and get some response
to- what is it?]
Andrew Werby - United Artworks
Andrew Werby
[Sorry about the misdirected post- this is what I meant to reply:]
dmar...@dept.english.upenn.edu (David Markowitz) wrote:
I'm wondering if there is an
>appreciable difference in permanence, pigment quality & density between
>these brands:
>
>Watercolor (moist, tubes):
>Windsor & Newton "Artist's"
>W&N "Cotman" line
>Grumbacher
>Utrecht
>
>Guache:
>Linel "Designer's colors"
>W&N "Designer's Colors"
[Watercolors are more permanent than goache. Designer's colors are for
temporary presentations, artist's colors are designed to last. But even
the best watercolors will not resist fading indefinitely if displayed
where full sunlight can strike them.]
andrew harmantas
agree with the experiences reported by others to your questions.
grumbacher's "academy" w/c's are "student grade", meaning they use less
costlier pigments and are not manufactured to the standards of
prefessional grade w/c. the same holds for w&n's "cotman" line. always
purchase professional grade paint if you want your work to survive. i
have done many w/c using grumbacher's finest w/c, which is a
professional grade, and is now once again available.
another factor to condsider is that the same color from two different
manufacturers can handle very differently from each other. there are all
kinds of variations already mentioned in previous posts, but the point
here is to experiment with different company products until you feel
comfortable with how each one handles, then use that one. you may find,
as i do, that your w/c paint box has tubes from several different
companies.
and, yes, i have used daniel smith watercolors and they are excellent.
there are some colors in that line that i favor, and some colors i prefer
from grumbacher and w&n.
no recent experience with guache.
Binky B
My best advice to anyone who hasn't experimented with the various brands
of watercolor and gouache paints that exist in today's market, especially
in light of many recent technical improvements, is to request catalogs
from paint manufacturers and distributors and ask for samples.