water soluble oils feedback
susan
Can anyone tell me what their impression is of oils such as winsor and
newton, water soluble artisan oils? How do you feel about their
performance? How do they compare? Do you find they thin well with
water?
I have never used regular oils but have used the water soluble kind,
so I do not have anything to compare these paints with. Appreciate
the feedback. Thanks.
Susan
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Miz Chief
says...
>
>Hi!
>
>Can anyone tell me what their impression is of oils such as winsor and
>newton, water soluble artisan oils?
The first thing I ask when someone mentions these
to me is WHY? Acrylics have so much more versatility
including being able to use them in an oil painting
impasto mode that I can't for the life of me understand
people who want to use water soluble oil paints that
are so limited in application. M.C.
susan
Thanks for the feedback. Can you comment on what makes them so
limited in application, as that is exactly what I do not know and
would like to know. I am a watercolorist, and this is my first
venture into oils, thus the ignorance. I was attracted to the water
soluble oils due to the lack of fumes.
Claudia Reitmeier
I've been painting with artisan water soluble oils and normal oils
many times. The result of the water oils is excellent, but if they
are dry the painting is not as shiny as it is with normal oils. I
did not use any finishing yet.
Thinning with water is not a problem. What I do not like is the use
of artisans water mixable oil painting medium - in my opinion this
medium is thinning the conistence too much - but there is a
difference by useing canvas are wood - the better result is with
canvas.
Aslo I tried to finish a painting I've started with water oils with
normal oils - their was no problem.
Anyway - I prefer normal oil paintings but normally I have to work
in a very small room and to keep fresh air the use of water oils is
much better.
Regards and good luck
Claudia
Munich
susan schrieb:
>
> Hi!
>
> Can anyone tell me what their impression is of oils such as winsor and
> newton, water soluble artisan oils? How do you feel about their
> performance? How do they compare? Do you find they thin well with
> water?
>
> I have never used regular oils but have used the water soluble kind,
> so I do not have anything to compare these paints with. Appreciate
> the feedback. Thanks.
Gary Morrow
>
> >The first thing I ask when someone mentions these
> >to me is WHY? Acrylics have so much more versatility
> >including being able to use them in an oil painting
> >impasto mode that I can't for the life of me understand
> >people who want to use water soluble oil paints that
> >are so limited in application. M.C.
>
As far as I understood oils and acrylics should never be used together - I
would have doubts about the longevity of any painting which employs both
of these opposing mediums. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Gary
--
Gary Morrow
Multimedia Programmer
Audio Visual Media Services
Strathclyde University
Email : g.mo...@strath.ac.uk
http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~ras95339
James Thomas
quickly. Never use acrylics on top of oil painting since the acrylic will
dry before the underlying oil can dry properly.
Ron
Gary Morrow <g.mo...@strath.ac.uk> wrote in article
<g.morrow-161...@callitrichidae.avms.strath.ac.uk>...
Bob Parsons
>
> >
> > >The first thing I ask when someone mentions these
> > >to me is WHY? Acrylics have so much more versatility
> > >including being able to use them in an oil painting
> > >impasto mode that I can't for the life of me understand
> > >people who want to use water soluble oil paints that
> > >are so limited in application. M.C.
> >
>
> As far as I understood oils and acrylics should never be used together - I
> would have doubts about the longevity of any painting which employs both
> of these opposing mediums. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Gary
>
> --
> Gary Morrow
> Multimedia Programmer
> Audio Visual Media Services
> Strathclyde University
> Email : g.mo...@strath.ac.uk
> http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~ras95339
I believe what M.C. said here was that acrylics may also be used *like*
oil paints in an impasto mode. And you can overpaint acrylics with oil
paints, but not vice-versa.
--
Bob Parsons
Remember, keep smiling....that way they'll never know what you're up to!
(To reply via e-mail remove the first "dot")
Miz Chief
>I believe what M.C. said here was that acrylics may also be used *like*
>oil paints in an impasto mode. And you can overpaint acrylics with oil
>paints, but not vice-versa.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. And artists have been painting
with oils over acrylic ever since acrylic gesso replaced the
old traditional glue and white lead priming. But let me
reiterate what the questioner was asking originally. They
wanted to know of people who had experience with the new
OIL PAINTS that are a substitute for traditional oil paints that
use turpentine and linseed oil as the basic medium. The
NEW water-soluble oil paints use WATER as the medium.
One particular brand name is 'Grumbacher MAX.'
So if you have used these new water-soluble oils and
can add your experiences to this thread please do so
and my apologies to the original poster for diverting the
thread away from appropriate replies. M.C.
Bob Parsons
Well, excuuuuse me for trying to clarify what you said. (I thought it
was a very appropriate comment and didn't deserve your reply to me!)
JMichaeI
drying time. Unless you want to add a retarder to the acrylic, they dry too
quickly to do gradations and such like you can with oils. They can't be as
meticulously worked. My solution to this problem is to paint with Caseins --
which is actuality is a water soluable oil paint which has been around for
about 900 years. But, if you want the immediate glossiness of oils, you have
to use oils. The Grumbacher MAX is a nice paint.
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jax...@my-dejanews.com
jmic...@aol.compost (JMichaeI) wrote:
> The main advantage to using something like MAX oil colors over acrylics is
> drying time. Unless you want to add a retarder to the acrylic, they dry too
> quickly to do gradations and such like you can with oils. They can't be as
> meticulously worked. My solution to this problem is to paint with Caseins --
> which is actuality is a water soluable oil paint which has been around for
> about 900 years. But, if you want the immediate glossiness of oils, you have
> to use oils. The Grumbacher MAX is a nice paint.
I don't totally disagree with the above but I do find that acrylics
can be 'blended' just as easily as oils ONCE YOU HAVE THE SKILLS.
One thing that has helped my work with acrylics was learning that
either propylene glycol (available from a druggist) or ethylene
glycol (car anti-freeze) when added JUDICIOUSLY to acrylics can
retard the drying time SIGNIFICANTLY. I can work all day long now
with acrylic on my palette and still have it dry overnight on the
canvas. And the versatility of acrylics makes them the one and only
medium that can virtually 'do it all' when it comes to painting
methods and techniques -- besides being a superior glue for collage
and other effects not possible in oils or traditional watercolor.
Cheers, Jill Stern.
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JMichaeI
>I don't totally disagree with the above but I do find that acrylics
>can be 'blended' just as easily as oils ONCE YOU HAVE THE SKILLS.
>One thing that has helped my work with acrylics was learning that
>either propylene glycol (available from a druggist) or ethylene
>glycol (car anti-freeze) when added JUDICIOUSLY to acrylics can
>retard the drying time SIGNIFICANTLY. I can work all day long now
>with acrylic on my palette and still have it dry overnight on the
>canvas.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. I rarely use anything except acrylics
paint. I find they can be adapted to do everything any other medium can do,
essentially. I do disagree with your statement, "ONCE YOU HAVE THE SKILLS."
I'd revise that to "ONCE YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION."
Thanks again.
A. B. Sieze
> I do disagree with your statement, "ONCE YOU HAVE THE SKILLS."
>I'd revise that to "ONCE YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION."
Be careful about putting the cart before the horse. Information
is of no value in the 'practice' of creative endeavors UNLESS
you develop the skills to go along with what information you
accumulate along the way. Having the information is NO
guarantee that you'll ever develop the skill. Abby.
Chr.-Heinrich Wunderlich
>
> The main advantage to using something like MAX oil colors over acrylics is
> drying time. Unless you want to add a retarder to the acrylic, they dry too
> quickly to do gradations and such like you can with oils. They can't be as
> meticulously worked.
the problem you can have with many of the water"soluble" oil paints is
yellowing of the paint by ageing. The cause of this danger in such
water-emulgatable oil paints is the binder, consisting of saponified
oils or neutralised alkyd resins. For that, i make conventional oil
colors water"soluble" myself by adding egg-yolk to common oil paint.
Just trye it !
Heinrich Wunderlich
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Larry Seiler
> The main advantage to using something like MAX oil colors over acrylics
is
> drying time. Unless you want to add a retarder to the acrylic, they dry
too
> quickly to do gradations and such like you can with oils. They can't be
as
> meticulously worked.
It's like anything.....it takes time to adjust and learn how to use a
medium. I went through my hair pulling days 20 years ago with acrylics.
Yet....if a fine gradiation is what is wanted.....acrylic can be thinned
down to the consistency of watercolor without the muddying that accompanies
watercolor. If one is patient, one could build up layer after layer after
layer and virtually brushstroke free.
One thing very nice is it's water resistance upon drying. Say you put very
tight detail of a bird's feather down first. Then you can soften it and
render over it with layer after multiple layer of thin washes, yet not lose
the detail. It softens, but adds to the realism.
These days I like my paint drying fast, both acrylics and oils. I let the
eye mix and prefer the viewer to stand back to experience the effect.
Larry
Larry Seiler
my art web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
"It's not what happens to you, but in you that matters!" (author unknown)
Larry Seiler
jax...@my-dejanews.com
"Larry Seiler" <lse...@execpc.com> wrote:
>
> > The main advantage to using something like MAX oil colors over acrylics
> is
> > drying time. Unless you want to add a retarder to the acrylic, they dry
> too
> > quickly to do gradations and such like you can with oils. They can't be
> as
> > meticulously worked.
>
> It's like anything.....it takes time to adjust and learn how to use a
> medium.
I teach blending with acrylics to my students by showing them that
you should put down a good layer of acrylic gesso, gel, or tube
white first and while that is wet, and already having your colors
laid out on the palette, you quickly work in the colors. It
is a 'rapid fire' approach that requires having all your ducks in
a row before beginning but for doing large areas like skies, it
works very well. It's an alla prima method that can be used in
limited areas as well as for large areas. Again -- the secret is
to begin with a 'base' layer of whatever it is you are going
to use to create the desired result. Gesso of course will tint
the mix. Using clear gel or varnish will NOT tint the colors.
And using acrylic titanium white, or whatever tube white you
possess, will give the same result as using gesso and the gesso
is cheaper so that is what I recommend my students use. Jill S.
Larry Seiler
> I teach blending with acrylics to my students by showing them that
> you should put down a good layer of acrylic gesso, gel, or tube
> white first and while that is wet,
In essence then....on a large scale, you simply are suspending pigment in a
medium that for the most part spreads it out evenly, and drying gives this
uniform appearance. Don't see why it shouldn't work folks!
Larry