technique problem: oils
Mike Stengl
It's the dark colors: ultramarine blue, cad red. Is it because they
are 'transparent colors'? Currently using walnut oil as a medium but
this has plagued me throughout a variety of mediums.
Ami Tour
eatn...@humboldt1.com says...
>
>Often my paint streaks or leaves streak marks when no white is added.
>It's the dark colors: ultramarine blue, cad red. Is it because they
>are 'transparent colors'?
I've never thought of either of those
as "transparent" pigments. But if you're
using a student grade paint that is
formulated from a mix of dyes to simulate
those colors, then they 'could' be
transparent. If you're using better quality
oils, then I can only suggest that you
are picking up previous layers that are
not dry to the touch? Or possibly painting
too thinly so that your brush marks leave
dark and light 'streaks?'
Mike Stengl
> In article <45dd5dd.03090...@posting.google.com>,
> eatn...@humboldt1.com says...
> >
> >Often my paint streaks or leaves streak marks when no white is added.
> >It's the dark colors: ultramarine blue, cad red. Is it because they
> >are 'transparent colors'?
>
> I've never thought of either of those
> as "transparent" pigments. But if you're
> using a student grade paint
nada, I wouldn't do that
> that is
> formulated from a mix of dyes to simulate
> those colors, then they 'could' be
> transparent. If you're using better quality
> oils, then I can only suggest that you
> are picking up previous layers that are
> not dry to the touch?
this could be the case, I just wonder why I can continue painting
'into' the oranges, yellows, greens, light blues, lavenders, but these
two colors, dark blue, deep red, even mixed, leave streaks
> Or possibly painting
> too thinly so that your brush marks leave
> dark and light 'streaks?'
This COULD be, but like I said, I'm not using any solvents so I'm just
dipping the bristles in the oil and then grabbin some pigment. also, I
HAVE experienced the same when I was adding solvent to my medium. i
tend to paint the whole canvas at one time, moving around the picture
developing all areas towards a gradual finish, these dark colors just
aren't playing by (my) rules...
bruin70
Dik F. Liu
eatn...@humboldt1.com (Mike Stengl) writes:
>ultramarine blue, cad red. Is it because they
>are 'transparent colors'? Currently using walnut oil as a medium but
>this has plagued me throughout a variety of mediums.
Is it streaky as you are painting? Or after the paints have dried? Ultramarine
blue can be somewhat transparent; but real cadmiums are not. Are you sure you
are using a real cadmium red? Read the fine prints at the back of the tube to
see the real ingredients.
You could be painting too thinly. Walnut oil is not the problem. I often use it
instead of linseed oil. I painted over a dozen paintings this summer using just
walnut oil.
Mike Stengl
> In article <45dd5dd.03090...@posting.google.com>,
> eatn...@humboldt1.com (Mike Stengl) writes:
>
> >ultramarine blue, cad red. Is it because they
> >are 'transparent colors'? Currently using walnut oil as a medium but
> >this has plagued me throughout a variety of mediums.
>
> Is it streaky as you are painting?
yes
Or after the paints have dried?
yes
Ultramarine
> blue can be somewhat transparent; but real cadmiums are not. Are you sure you
> are using a real cadmium red?
blockx cad red deep
Read the fine prints at the back of the tube to
> see the real ingredients.
>
> You could be painting too thinly.
I don't THINK I am painting particularly thin, just enough to allow
the paint to flow from the brush.
Walnut oil is not the problem. I often use it
> instead of linseed oil. I painted over a dozen paintings this summer using just
> walnut oil.
you have had a more productive summer than I... the sunny days are far
too distracting.
Dik F. Liu
>blockx cad red deep<
BlockX has a reputation for being soft. But their cadmium red should be made
from real cadmium. What does the label say? If you want stiffer paints, try
Winsor and Newton, or Old Holland.
Without seeing your paintings, I don't know how thick you are painting. If
after two layers of paint, you can still see the weaving of the canvas, I'd
consider it thin. But every painter has a different standard. If you use a
medium containing Venice turpentine, it will give your paints a "drag", and
help you put on the paints thickly. You might not want to go down that path,
however, as the results are very different from just painting with walnut oil.
>you have had a more productive summer than I... the sunny days are far too
distracting.<
This was not a productive summer for me, Mike! I was bogged down by a few
figure paintings of which I can not resolve. When I used to spend the summer
painting landscape, I'd crank out about sixty paintings a summer. They weren't
very good, mind you; but there they are.
Dik
Bob C
> BlockX has a reputation for being soft. But their cadmium red should be made
> from real cadmium. What does the label say?
Any paint called "Cadmium Red" should contain real cadmium. Any paint
called "Cadmium Red Hue" will not contain real cadmium. Although many
people are not familiar with it, the use of the word "Hue" is a standard
naming convention to designate economic alternatives to more expensive
pigments.
- Bob C.
Marc Sabatella
> Often my paint streaks or leaves streak marks when no white is added.
It isn't clear to me what you mean by this. I am imagining something
like this: starting with a completely clean brush, dipping it in the
paint (perhaps mixing with medium), and applying to dry canvas, and the
result is something other than a smooth application of paint. If so,
I'd say you either have defective tubes of paints, or aren't mixing them
with your medium well enough. If what you are doing is anything
different from what I am describing (eg, brush not clean, canvas not
dry), that's probably it right there.
> It's the dark colors: ultramarine blue, cad red. Is it because they
> are 'transparent colors'?
As someone else mentioned, true cad red is not transparent at all - and
it generally isn't even that dark. Perhaps you are thinking of alizarin
crimson? In any event, the opacity of the painting isn't really much of
an issue except when you are applying it in fairly thin washes or
glazes - but in those cases, it is indeed true that the color underneath
will be visible through the glaze, which is normally precisely why you'd
be doing this in the first place.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Ami Tour
>the use of the word "Hue" is a standard
>naming convention to designate economic alternatives to more expensive
>pigments.
>
>- Bob C.
Excellent! In fact I used to recommend
Liquitex "Value Series" acrylics to my beginning
students who could not afford the more
expensive professional grade paints. I
still have a few tubes and was looking
just now at the labeling. Liquitex does
indeed label honestly. The "Cadmium Red
Medium Hue" contains Napthol Red and
Arylide Yellow and the "Cadmium Orange Hue"
contains Perinone Orange, Arylide Yellow
and Titanium Dioxide (all conform to
ASTM D4236).
And it is this particular line of paints
that illustrates what I was trying to get
across in an earlier thread about colors
from one manufacturer not mixing well with
colors of another when discussing "student
grade" paints. These Liquitex colors work
well together, but don't do well when mixed
with other mfr's acrylics. Of course a
beginner is not going to be able to see that
necessarily. They'll struggle to get
the intermediates without understanding the
problem and perhaps eventually arrive at
a color that satisfys their need.
Dik F. Liu
writes:
>And it is this particular line of paints that illustrates what I was trying to
get across in an earlier thread about colors from one manufacturer not mixing
well with colors of another when discussing "student grade" paints<
Sell your snake oil to somebody else. In this as in the other thread, we are
discussing oil paints, which you obviously know nothing about.
I have never heard of oil paints not mixing well because they are of different
brands, or because one paint is made from cadmium and the other is not. If you
can find such oil paints, I will eat it in front of you.
Stop making things up just because you have been exposed for being a charlatan.
Dik
Dik F. Liu
>Any paint called "Cadmium Red" should contain real cadmium. Any paint
>called "Cadmium Red Hue" will not contain real cadmium.
A paint called cadmium red should contain cadmium. But it might also contain
wax or calcium carbonate (just plain chalk). Wax is a stabilizer in oil paints,
and is used to keep the paints from separating from the oil within the tubes.
Some manufacturers overuse wax so that it also serves as a filler, thereby
making the paint cheaper and more transparent. Calcium carbonate is a simple
filler to make the paints cheaper; but artists since Velazquez have used it to
make their paints more transparent. (See Velasquez: The techniques of Genius.
Yale University Press.)
Cadmium paints are more complicated matter, because sometimes barium sulfate is
also added as a filler. Some manufacturers such as Grumbacher list barium in
their labels - a very honest practice, in my opinion. Ultrecht used to do this
too, but no more. I think they have since reformulated their cadmiums (they
should - given how much their cadmium costs these days.)
Dik
Ami Tour
says...
>I have never heard of oil paints not mixing well
Since you've now lowered yourself to attacking
me personally and name calling, I'll respond in kind!
I strongly suspect there are LOTS of things
you've never heard of. But know-it-alls seldom
realize that!
>Stop making things up just because you have been exposed for being a charlatan.
I've never pretended to be other than who and
what I am. And this is the first time I've been
accused of being other than who I am. Funny stuff,
coming from a DIK...skip to the Liu my darling...HEAD!
Dik F. Liu
mask that you know little about the subject you are discussing.
By the way, the ASTM D4236 you cited has nothing to do with what brand is
compatible with what, or how the color mixes. It is simply the health label
seal. Don't throw numbers around just to make yourself sound more impressive.
Dik
Mike Stengl
> "Mike Stengl" <eatn...@humboldt1.com> wrote:
>
> > Often my paint streaks or leaves streak marks when no white is added.
>
> It isn't clear to me what you mean by this. I am imagining something
> like this: starting with a completely clean brush, dipping it in the
> paint (perhaps mixing with medium), and applying to dry canvas, and the
> result is something other than a smooth application of paint. If so,
> I'd say you either have defective tubes of paints, or aren't mixing them
> with your medium well enough. If what you are doing is anything
> different from what I am describing (eg, brush not clean, canvas not
> dry), that's probably it right there.
It may be the brush not clean enough thing ( I try, lord knows I kinda
sorta try ), but it goes like this: (in most recent effort) mixing a
dark color: 85% ultra marine blue (gamblin), 10% cad red (blockx), 5%
cad yellow deep (gamblin), to sketch out and fill in some shadow areas
on fresh canvas along with some dark red areas, about 85% cad red and
15% before mentioned dark mix. As I applied the paint it refused to
cover the canvas (left streaks). Even after 3 to 4 days, shen trying
to go over the area with more paint, it continued to show brush mark
streaks of canvas. I am using, as mentioned, walnut oil only to paint
with (solvents mess with me), perhaps I am trying to get a flowing
paint that is too much oil per pigment. Like I mentioned though, any
other color: greens (ultra blue w/ cad yellow light), oranges (cad
yellows and reds), blues with white, or lavenders (all mixes of before
mentioned pigments) covered the canvas perfectly, same walnut oil
application...
>
> > It's the dark colors: ultramarine blue, cad red. Is it because they
> > are 'transparent colors'?
>
> As someone else mentioned, true cad red is not transparent at all - and
> it generally isn't even that dark. Perhaps you are thinking of alizarin
> crimson? In any event, the opacity of the painting isn't really much of
> an issue except when you are applying it in fairly thin washes or
> glazes - but in those cases, it is indeed true that the color underneath
> will be visible through the glaze, which is normally precisely why you'd
> be doing this in the first place.
I appreciate the help.
Ami Tour
says...
>By the way, the ASTM D4236 you cited has nothing to do with what brand is
>compatible with what, or how the color mixes. It is simply the health label
>seal. Don't throw numbers around just to make yourself sound more impressive.
>
>Dik
I'll use my age as an excuse for the confusion.
And I'll give you credit this time for being
right - and I stand corrected. It's the ANSI
in USA that sets the pigment standard, specifically
ANSI Z356.5, according to my tubes with that on
the label. And I make no claim to being an
authority on the various codes and standards
by which paint is manufactured - or much of
anything else for that matter. What I DO know
comes from 36 years of hands-on experience painting
with the various mediums, DIKie bird!
Marc Sabatella
> As I applied the paint it refused to
> cover the canvas (left streaks). Even after 3 to 4 days, shen trying
> to go over the area with more paint, it continued to show brush mark
> streaks of canvas.
This sounds like either not enough medium in the mix or not enough of
the mix on your brush. It is true that different colors handle
differently in terms of how much of either is required.
Or maybe a not stiff enough brush - again, for the particular colors
involved?