oil painting
Carlson
I want to learn to oil paint. I don't know what happened to my last
letter but here it is again.
What kind of tools should I get, what colors should I have to
start, sizes, quantities, do i need an easel, and should it be a good
one of a cheepy 10 dollar one?, should i get stretched canvas or canvas
board....please help
Brian Carlson
terryc...@sprintmail.com
Brother Alphabet
On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Carlson wrote:
> I want to learn to oil paint.
Snide:
I bet. You can't unless you beg like a dog!
Nice:
Great! I hope this information helps...
> What kind of tools should I get...?
Snide:
A hoe and a rake.
Helpful:
First, decide whether you want to learn to use brushes or knives,
or both. The methods are similar, but different enough that you will want
to consider how much technique you wish to digest at a time.
Brushes:
I'd suggest a nice array of sizes, but limit yourself to a couple
of brush styles. As a beginner, I would suggest that you stick to rounds
and flats, about half and half, and do not buy very large or very tiny
ones. Also, do not buy expensive brushes...you might decide you don't like
it and you will have wasted all that cash. Buy student-grade brushes,
probably hog-bristle.
Knives:
It's hard to go wrong with palette knives. I'd suggest that you
buy a mixing knife and 3 sizes of painting knives, middle-range, not tiny
and not big. Again, buy student grade while you're learning. Once you get
the hang of it, you'll know what kinds of tools you like and then you can
buy the higher quality items.
> what colors should I have to start...?
Snide:
Dark Black, Transparent and Commode-Stain Yellow.
Helpful:
Depending upon how much you want to spend, I would suggest buying a nice
range of color. Anywhere from 10 to 15 colors for your basic layout...
The primaries, secondaries, and then add in ones you prefer, as well as
white and black. You will also need mediums and solvents for your
pigments, so investigate the various types and choose the ones you prefer.
I would say that 'Liquin' would be a relative staple, as well as mineral
spirits, turpenoid (or turpentine if you have surplus brain cells to
dispose of).
> sizes, quantities...?
Snide:
You MUST buy your paints in 55 gallon drums.
Helpful:
Standard tubes of paint would be best. No sense blowing a ton on large
sizes if you end up hating oils...
About a pint of liquin should get you started, and a standard size
container of solvent from Wal-Mart should suffice.
Also, have plenty of rags or paper towels on hand, as well as a pallette.
You can buy 'disposable' pallettes, which is pretty much waxed paper, from
art supply stores, but it will be less expensive to use a piece of glass,
plexiglas, or masonite as your pallette...or you could be pretentious like
I was and buy a pallette so you can look like a bona-fide arteest!
(You have to get a beret if you opt for an official palette...)
> do i need an easel...?
Snide:
All real artists have easels, you worm!
Helpful:
Easels are not necessary, and in some cases can be a real pain in the tail
for beginners. Its enough to worry about how to use your paint! With an
easel you have to worry about how to use those ornery contraptions! :)
On the other hand, easels help you make less of a mess, and oils are quite
messy. Oils, depending especially on how you mix them, take eons to dry.
An easel is a good place to let them stand if you dont have a drying rack
or free table to lay the paintings on.
> and should it be a good one or a cheepy 10 dollar one?
Snide:
You should spend 500 bucks on a cheap, crappy one.
Helpful:
Whoa! You can buy easels for 10 Bucks?? I bought a cheap easel from CHEAP
JOE'S ART STUFF and it cost 45 bucks and THEY SENT THE WRONG INSTRUCTIONS
AND THE WRONG PARTS, so it was doomed from the start, plus CHEAP JOE'S did
not send me some of the stuff I ordered, nor did they reimburse or credit
me in any way! DONT ORDER FROM THEM.
Oops...excuse me...
This is a hard question...On the one hand, you dont want to over-invest
until you know you like the medium...but where easels are concerned, you
tend to get what you pay for...My solution was to build one myself...that
way you control the design, weight etc, and your cost is far lower than
buying one...
> should i get stretched canvas or canvas
> board....please help
Snide:
You should weave your own canvas from cotton you grow in your yard.
Helpful:
When you're starting out, canvas paper or canvas board would be your best
option, just for saving money and learning how to use the paints and
brushes...But I would suggest that you also learn how to strecth your own
canvasses...Pre-Stretched canvasses are A) A ripoff, B) Over-gessoed, C)
Inflexible to individual size concerns...Or rather, if you want a specific
size canvas, and it's not one of the pre-stretched standard sizes, you're
out of luck.
You can buy raw lumber and canvas in rolls and save literally hundreds of
dollars in the long run.
An average price on a 52"x30' roll of canvas is 60 bucks.
1X2's from a lumberyard will cost you upwards of 1.00/foot and are
available in 8,10,12 and 16 feet pieces.
A pre-stretched canvas, 24x36" costs at least 15 bucks in most places.
You do the math on that one.
If you wish, I'll send you instructions on how to stretch your own
canvasses. Email me back and I'll send it to you.
Good luck learning.
Hutto
Charles Eicher
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.971211...@Ra.MsState.Edu>,
Brother Alphabet <ja...@isis.msstate.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Carlson wrote:
>
> > I want to learn to oil paint.
>
> Snide:
> I bet. You can't unless you beg like a dog!
>
> Nice:
> Great! I hope this information helps...
That is a very interesting approach. But I think you've got a few snide
suggestions that actually work well. Or perhaps, that is the point,
sometimes you can even learn from a snide suggestion.. like:
> > what colors should I have to start...?
>
> Snide:
> Dark Black, Transparent and Commode-Stain Yellow.
Actually, this isn't a bad suggestion. When I went back to school, I had
been painting for many years, but I had to enroll in 1st year painting just
to go through the program. The first exercise in painting 101 was to do a
painting using only black and cadmium yellow oil paint. I learned an awful
lot from this odd experiment. According to the teacher, the whole idea was
to try blending black and yellow, which if mixed correctly, could result in
a wide range of greenish tones. I was the only person in the class who
couldn't get any greens, no matter what I did. I guess I was using a weird
type of yellow paint.
> > What kind of tools should I get...?
>
> Snide:
> A hoe and a rake.
>
> Helpful:
[snip]
> Brushes:
> I'd suggest a nice array of sizes, but limit yourself to a couple
> of brush styles. As a beginner, I would suggest that you stick to rounds
> and flats, about half and half, and do not buy very large or very tiny
> ones. Also, do not buy expensive brushes...you might decide you don't like
> it and you will have wasted all that cash. Buy student-grade brushes,
> probably hog-bristle.
There's nothing "student grade" about hog bristle brushes. I usually prefer
them to other higher grade brushes. It all depends on your style of
painting.
> Helpful:
> Depending upon how much you want to spend, I would suggest buying a nice
> range of color. Anywhere from 10 to 15 colors for your basic layout...
Hmm.. sounds kind of excessive. I'd just get two of each primary, to start
(a warm and a cold).. So, my "beginner's list" would be:
white (Titanium, or if you prefer, Zinc) and buy a BIG tube.
Black (lampblack, or whatever) in a small tube
Cadmium yellow light or Hansa Yellow (cool)
Cad Yellow Deep (warm)
Ultramarine Blue (warm)
Cobalt Blue (cool)
Alizarin Crimson (cool)
Cadmium Red Medium (warm)
That's only 6 basic colors (plus B&W). Some might suggest getting a couple
of earth pigments like Burnt Sienna or Raw Umber. I never use them. Some
might disagree with these basic color recommendations, or dispute the
"cool/warm" assignments.. after all, how can a cool color be warm (like
ultramarine)?? Trust me, it works.
> The primaries, secondaries, and then add in ones you prefer, as well as
> white and black.
I'd wait on secondary colors, if I were a beginner.. It becomes relatively
obvious when you need secondaries (like greens, purples).
> ..You will also need mediums and solvents for your
> pigments, so investigate the various types and choose the ones you prefer.
> I would say that 'Liquin' would be a relative staple, as well as mineral
> spirits, turpenoid (or turpentine if you have surplus brain cells to
> dispose of).
Yuck. I hate liquin. I wouldn't recommend it to beginners. Better to learn
how to use the standard mediums. Mix 1 part Stand Oil, 1 part linseed oil,
and 2 parts turpentine for a basic medium.
> Helpful:
> Standard tubes of paint would be best. No sense blowing a ton on large
> sizes if you end up hating oils...
There are some nice "beginners kits" with a variety of pigments in small
tubes. Perfect for inexpensive experimenting with other colors.
> Also, have plenty of rags or paper towels on hand, as well as a pallette.
Actually, a stack of newspapers is really handy for wiping brushes. Its a
lot cheaper than paper towels, for a quick wipe.
> You can buy 'disposable' pallettes, which is pretty much waxed paper, from
> art supply stores, but it will be less expensive to use a piece of glass,
> plexiglas, or masonite as your pallette...or you could be pretentious like
> I was and buy a pallette so you can look like a bona-fide arteest!
> (You have to get a beret if you opt for an official palette...)
I know one guy who always is scrounging around for broken aluminum screen
doors. He uses the tempered glass sliding panels for palettes, and then
stretches canvas around the aluminum frames.. ha.
> Helpful:
> Easels are not necessary, and in some cases can be a real pain in the tail
> for beginners. Its enough to worry about how to use your paint! With an
> easel you have to worry about how to use those ornery contraptions! :)
It is usually adequate to bang a couple of nails in a wall, and hang your
stretcher from that. Or if its a big canvas, just prop it up on the floor,
against the wall (elevate it on bricks or something, if necessary). Just
put some newspapers on the floor to catch the inevitable dribbling.
> Helpful:
> When you're starting out, canvas paper or canvas board would be your best
> option, just for saving money and learning how to use the paints and
> brushes...But I would suggest that you also learn how to strecth your own
> canvasses...Pre-Stretched canvasses are A) A ripoff, B) Over-gessoed, C)
> Inflexible to individual size concerns...Or rather, if you want a specific
> size canvas, and it's not one of the pre-stretched standard sizes, you're
> out of luck.
You should learn to stretch your own canvases, and build your own
stretchers, eventually. But for beginners, it is rather a pain in the ass.
One good way to economize is to paint on gessoed paper. Just staple good
thick artists paper to the wall or a pressed wood board, and tape around
the edges. Gesso over the whole thing, tape and all. Put on a couple of
coats, drying thoroughly between coats. The paper should stretch quite
taught.
| Charles Eicher |
| -=- |
| cei...@inav.net |
Karen Jacobs
Geeze! It's good to see you back, Jason! And in such good form!
Hope you stick around for awhile, it's been dry as dust around
here lately!
And, BTW, just to compare notes... tell us how YOU stretch
canvas... (and if your web site will return?)
Karen...
Brother Alphabet wrote:
>
> Some very snide remarks... and some helpful ones, too.
--
.....Karen Jacobs.....
http://members.aol.com/kajojacobs/index.htm
Spiral Nevets
In article <349056...@sprintmail.com>, Carlson
<terryc...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> I want to learn to oil paint. I don't know what happened to my last
> letter but here it is again.
>
> What kind of tools should I get, what colors should I have to
> start, sizes, quantities, do i need an easel, and should it be a good
> one of a cheepy 10 dollar one?, should i get stretched canvas or canvas
> board....please help
>
> Brian Carlson
> terryc...@sprintmail.com
I can give you some advice on the easel. I painted without one, I've
painted with a 10 dollar one, and a 30 or 40 dollar one. (it shows my
rising economic status)
I use to paint with a stretched canvas leaned against the wall on the
floor. The problem with that is just the ackwardness of it, especially
when you get to the bottom. It's economic however, when you are just
seeing if you want to continue painting. If you want to paint small you
can just use a table top. That would be O.K.
I had a 10 dollar easel for awhile and I don't recommend them. They're
fine for presentations but, they wobble too much for me while you're
laying down your brushstrokes.
Now I paint on a 35 dollar easel and I love it. It's sturdier and can
hold much bigger canvases. However, it does take up more space that the
collapseble 10 dollar one which is a factor for me since I live in an
apartment.
So if you want to spend the money get the good easel. It will be more
comfortable to use than the floor and cause you less aggravation than the
cheapo easel.
I, however, as my money and living space grow, have my eye on one of those
One hundred and fifty dollar easels at the art store. I'll let you know
how those are.
Spiral Nevets
Kate Wilson
Brother Alphabet wrote:
---snip----
> If you wish, I'll send you instructions on how to stretch your own
> canvasses. Email me back and I'll send it to you.
>
> Good luck learning.
>
> Hutto
Please post the instructions for all of us!
Thanks, K
Roger Keyser
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On the subject of what colors to start with:
I was advised quite early on not to use black unless I want to mix with
yellow to get a nice green. Thus I started with these acrylic colors (I
would assume similar colors are available in oils:
Titanium White
Cadmium Red
Cadmium Yellow Light
Burnt Sienna
Ultramarine Blue
Hookers green
I could mix a wide variety of colors from these using the Burnt Sienna and
Ultramarine Blue to produce browns, blacks, and navy blues. If my subject
matter called for a large amount of a particular color I would then add
that to my box of paints. Your colors will never clash and will always
hang together well if you limit the number of colors used in a piece.
Those colors should be worked over the entire canvas, never isolating a
color to a single area. If you use a color in one place, find other places
to use it throughout the canvas.
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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">On the subject of what colors to start =
with:<br><br>I was advised quite early on not to use black unless I want =
to mix with yellow to get a nice green. Thus I started with these =
acrylic colors (I would assume similar colors are available in =
oils:<br>	Titanium White<br>	Cadmium Red<br>	Cadmium =
Yellow Light<br>	Burnt Sienna<br>	Ultramarine =
Blue<br>	Hookers green<br><br>I could mix a wide variety of colors =
from these using the Burnt Sienna and Ultramarine Blue to produce =
browns, blacks, and navy blues. If my subject matter called for a =
large amount of a particular color I would then add that to my box of =
paints. Your colors will never clash and will always hang together =
well if you limit the number of colors used in a piece. Those =
colors should be worked over the entire canvas, never isolating a color =
to a single area. If you use a color in one place, find other =
places to use it throughout the canvas. <br><br><br><br><br></p>
</font></body></html>
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Brother Alphabet
On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Roger Keyser wrote:
> I was advised quite early on not to use black unless...
The best advice you'll ever hear:
Never listen to people who tell you not to use a color.
Every color has it's own uses.
Black is far more versatile than just for making green.
A mixed black is not a true black, but an extreme dark value of the hues
mixed to get it.
If you then mix the mixed black with other colors, you will get a
different effect than if you used pure black.
An example:
You have napthol red, you like the hue, but not the value.
Should you mix in a green? A bright red like napthol will most likely
neutralize to a brown if you use green. Therefore, you lost your hue.
However, if you add a bit of black to deepen it, your red hue will remain.
This is the same principle as using a dab of white to lighten a value.
> yellow to get a nice green. Thus I started with these acrylic colors (I
> would assume similar colors are available in oils:
Another note:
On occasion, though not frequently, chemical properties of pigments cause
different effects in hues. Somtimes, acrylic colors mix one way,
while oil colors of the exact same name will mix differently. The same
occurs in watercolor or any other painting media. However, this is such a
superficial diffrence that I only mention it as a point of interest and
not to detract from the previous statement.
> Titanium White
> Cadmium Red
> Cadmium Yellow Light
> Burnt Sienna
> Ultramarine Blue
> Hookers green
Id suggest that you get the medium grade cads, skip the sienna, replace it
with cad orange, and replace ultramarine with deep cerulean or lapis
lazuli if you can find either one of those. An emerald or jade green will
suit you better for green, too. Hookers is a neutralized green (contains
some brown). I'd also suggest a violet hue if you insist upon mixing your
blacks. Diox. Violet will do well. Still, if the ideal is mixing, use only
the primaries and white. (You'll be so frustrated in an hour that you'll
be ready to maim people with your palette knife)
I personally dont think mixing helps an artist out with color theory.
Mixing is an excersize that helps you understand how the media works.
> Your colors will never clash...
Unless, of course, you want them to...Dont limit yourself by worrying
about color clashes. This isnt your wardrobe, after all. Things dont have
to 'match'. (Of course, they dont have to in your wardrobe either, for
that matter, just dont hang out with me in public if they dont)
> and will always
> hang together well if you limit the number of colors used in a piece.
In a piece, yes, in your palette, no.
Color composition traditionally recommends that you use triads of color in
your piece...this doesnt say use ONLY 3 colors, and it doesnt say that you
cant use all available colors to create the elements of your triad.
Add 1 orange to 2 blue = blue
Add 1 purple to 1 blue = blue
Add 1 green, 1 black to 3 blue = blue
And you are also completely ignoring glazing and other after-effects.
Contrasting colors are fantastic for glazes.
> Those colors should be worked over the entire canvas, never isolating a
> color to a single area. If you use a color in one place, find other places
> to use it throughout the canvas.
Why?
This is not a bad principle to follow, but why can't I set a focal
emphasis with a single red speck in a sea of green and blue?
Limited palettes are tricks better reserved for more advanced painters. It
is much HARDER to make a composition work with fewer colors. As a
beginner, a wider range is better. As you get better, test yourself by
restricting your pigments. When you're starting out, you shouldnt be
concerned as much with making master works as you are with learing all
about your media. It's logical that more knowledge can be gained by having
more material for experiements.
Hutto
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
"I paint what I think, not what I see..." - Pablo Picasso
"You're not the boss of me!..." - J. A. Hutto (Pre age 3)
http://www2.msstate.edu/~jah10 + ja...@ra.msstate.edu
J. Helfrich
instead of spending $150 on an easel, you might want to consider a
drafting table. I bought a used one for $200 (canadian) and it's
wonderful, it adjusts to any height, any angle and it is extremely
stable, it's especially useful for very large paintings...also great for
drawing.
jmh
--
J.M. Helfrich
jhel...@agt.net
http://www.agt.net/public/jhelfric/jhelfric.htm - Surrealism
expres...@blueridge.net
I teach small beginner classes in my studio at home. As you might guess
it is in the foothills of the Blueridge Mountains of Western North
Carolina. I often answer questions beginners may have on the subject.
W.C.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
expres...@blueridge.net
In article ,
Carlson wrote:
>
> I want to learn to oil paint. I don't know what happened to my last
> letter but here it is again.
>
> What kind of tools should I get, what colors should I have to
> start, sizes, quantities, do i need an easel, and should it be a good
> one of a cheepy 10 dollar one?, should i get stretched canvas or canvas
> board....please help
>
> Brian Carlson
> terryc...@sprintmail.com
All these questions are kind of general. I recomend you buy the best
brushes you can afford. What brand of paint & brushes depend on what is
avaliable in you area. What colors depend on what you are painting. Any
easel will do until you can afford better, you can get by using a chair
or in your lap depending on the size of the painting. I don't like
canvas board because it can warp, but if you are just starting it will
work. I teach oil painting to beginners and hope this will help, If you
come up with specific questions let me know. Happy painting, WCD
NSWEISS
Why not just get a tube of Black & a tube of White oil paint, and learn how to
mix the paint with mediums, how to use the brushes, how to work the oil paint.
This could let you simplify the excessively building decision making (which
will never end but grow as your art grows) and focus on the basic mechanics.
Keep an open mind, but without becoming completely overwhelmed by your options
(although I suppose that can also be of interest and an aesthetic).
When you graduate & develop into a wider scope of colors and effects, bear in
mind that as you rise through grades of oil paint, the quality changes,
sometimes drastically. On paints that are made on small mills or handmade,
sometimes exhibit elements like the grittyness of the pigment, or quality of
the grind, these alter the appearence and handling of the paint--usually
qualities that are homogonized in student grade oils (the latter are fine for
your needs...they use fillers to make the paint consistent and
buttery...sometimes they use too much oil because it is cheaper than pigment,
and that can sometimes be difficult: if you open the tube and oil just runs
out, you can lightly squeeze and work the tube to extract the excessive oil, or
squeeze a working quantity onto a paper towel to absorb extra oil, then
transfer the blob of paint to your pallete). Like everything else, some paint
is just horrific in quality and nearly worthless.
Additionally, not all colors are suited to all effects. A yellow like Cobalt
Yellow will have litle covering power but can become transparent easier than a
cadmium yellow. Ditto with Alizaren Crimson vs Naptha Red, etc.
Keep open and experimenting so you can find your own preferences.
But...paint can get expensive, stay simple at first, then decide on your
commitment and wallet.
Make mistakes: you may find that they are doors into new explorations.
Jerry
There are a number of books, hard bound and paperback, that have been
written on the subject of "how to oil paint." Depending on where you
live there should be a local library or art supply store that can help
you in person or by mail.
The one thing you can't get from a book is experience which is what
happens when you have enough experience with the materials that the
experience becomes natural.
I taught art for 30 plus years and was asked the question of "teach me
how to paint or draw" more times than I can count. It was always
important to me before I answered the question to learn how sincere the
person was who was asking the question. Is it a matter of make me an
instant artist so that I do not have to go through the learning stages
of painting or do they just want to know where to start. I never found
a way to do that except for some of the gimmicky tricks that many
teachers would use to get their students tocome up with some kind of
image but after that it was practice, practice, practice to make it your
own.
Zebrowski
Jerry wrote in message <34A2E6...@interaccess.com>...
I don't think you can teach anybody "how to paint, draw" but you can teach
what is to paint or to draw, you can teach how to develop, improve existing
abilities. You have to have how to draw and or to paint in your "soul". You
can teach someone some tricks but that about all.
JJ
Roger Keyser
In college we were led through the various approaches to painting and drawing. I did my best at all but struggled. Then one day we did something that really worked for me. We came to an approach, a style of painting, that really worked for me. I was thrilled. I was empassioned. I had found something I could really make my own. I think this is what art instructors need to do. I would never have tried all the approaches on my own. I may never have found what I found without that education. Now I can take what I learned from all those various approaches to painting and use them in my approach. Art education is more discovery that a learning. It means reaching out to new areas, some of which are very hard, but from which we can take something and make it our own.
Caren Keyser