Drawing an elephant
Dilettante
parts the body is divided into.
Often these parts are signalled by humps.
For example--there are at least two humps on the front leg indicating
a front and back joint, possibly analogous to the human wrist and
elbow.
Going up from the trunk there appear to be 4 humps on the head
including the trunk: one on the trunk opposite the mouth, one on the
front of the head at eye level, one above eye level, and actually a
ridge just above that, and finally a double hump on top of the head.
This is the Asian elephant.
there is another hump on the back above the line of the front legs
that might be shoulder blades
there is another hump further back on top at about the middle of the
back
behind that there is another
there are is a bone protrusion on either side near the backbone just
in front of the back leg
there is a mound of hanging flab on the rear of the back leg
the stomach may droop to almost a point about two thirds of the way
toward the back.
Dilettante
keith o'connor
were taught and they considered themselves topographical recorders - not
artists.
--
take care: Keith
The eye should not be lead where there is nothing to see.
Robert Henri - The Art Spirit
"Dilettante" <hu...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:ba63903f.04010...@posting.google.com...
Dilettante
> So you can observe which is what all 19th century British military officers
> were taught and they considered themselves topographical recorders - not
> artists.
Observation is a valuable practice for doctors, scientists,
astronomers, proctologists (in your case), investigators, and
practitioners of disciplines ad infinitum. If you have a point in your
response, therefore, which is in doubt, it might have been better for
your reputation not to have made it. From now on stick to arguing with
mani.
Dilettante
keith o'connor
--
take care: Keith
The eye should not be lead where there is nothing to see.
Robert Henri - The Art Spirit
"Dilettante" <hu...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:ba63903f.04010...@posting.google.com...
Dilettante
> ...hmmmm you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
nor can you make him think
Dilettante
Mani Deli
any Wedsday)
"keith o'connor"
- ...hmmmm you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
The Dilettante
-nor can you make him think
keith o'connor
- ...doest he protest too much I think... ...yes like a stricken
lover
concealed by the shadows...
The Dilettante
good description of mani
No skill no art!
Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
Peter H.M. Brooks
can't make her think.
Dilettante
You are thinking of the other aphorism: You can lead a horticulture,
but you
> can't make her think.
she's precisely the person i do not want to think, but it's ok if
she's a vegetarian.
Dilettante
Mani Deli
" He had a feel for adjectives, but few ideas. He listened to me and
gratified me with answers full of modifiers. His whole brilliance lay
in his skill as plagiarist and stager?as jewel?setter. When all was
said and done, Picasso was a duettist. He always needed a partner:
Ingres, Delacroix, Velizquez, and others I forget. But he was a
eunuch, a caricaturing imitator who tore down and made fun of what he
could not outdo."
Jack Rubin
about Pablo Picasso (Málaga, 1881 - Mougins, France, 1973). In Dalí's case
that worry may have made sense to a certain extent, as Picasso was, after
all, a person close to him. Indeed, the Málaga artist was great friends with
the painter Ramon Pichot, and thanks to him spent a few months in Cadaqués
over the summer of 1910. Furthermore, Picasso always retained affectionate
ties with Catalonia, and ever since the start of Dalí's career had shown
interest in the work of the young man from Figueres, to the extent of having
his own art dealer Rosenberg take him under his wing. Although it is true
that that initiative did not really work out, it nevertheless shows Picasso'
s initial interest in the young painter's work. Within such a context it
need therefore come as no surprise to us that on Dalí's first trip to Paris
the young artist should hasten to visit Picasso. Picasso received him in his
studio and showed him how his work was evolving at that time; and Dalí was
indeed deeply struck by that evolution. Picasso's new style, at the time
more or less close to that of Breton, must have tilted Dalí's way of
painting for the first time towards surrealism.
Many examples have come down to us of the young painter's admiration for the
older master. Thus we have a photograph in his studio with a kind of banner
on which can be read "Long live Picasso!", as well as many writings in which
he acknowledges time and time again his great indebtedness towards Picasso.
During the thirties, when Dalí moved to live in Paris, their mutual
admiration was maintained. Dalí had already found his own path by then, one
far-removed from that of Picasso. But the Málaga artist continued to defend
Dalí staunchly, at a time when not everybody in Paris was so very convinced
by his work. André Masson, for example, wrote to Kahnweiler on 14 June 1935:
"Picasso. has been praising Dalí's painting for years; he only refrains from
doing so in your presence" (André Masson. Les années surréalistes.
Correspondance 1916-1942. Ed. F. Levaillant, París, 1990, p. 254). Neither
should we forget that Dalí, for his part, always remained faithful to
Picasso, as evidenced by a number of letters to him that Picasso may well
have never replied to; and these letters carried on well into the sixties,
almost always with just one sentence in them: "In July, no women or snails",
doubtless a private word-play between them whose hidden meaning must have
been known to very few people (those few including the Pichot family, as
there are frequent allusions therein to Nini Pichot). Among those
demonstrations of admiration we might remember the funny story he dedicates
to Picasso, "Picasso's slippers", a pastiche of a text by Sacher-Masoch
(Salvador Dalí, "Les pantoufles de Picasso", Cahiers d'Art, no. 7-10, Paris,
October 1935, p. 210-212). And, of course, on the subject of their
relations, one cannot forget that most ambiguous talk, "Picasso and I",
delivered by Dalí at the María Guerrero National Theatre in Madrid on 11
November 1951, in which he reminds his audience that Picasso "is a
communist, and neither am I". In any case, the María Guerrero talk would
only confirm what we were saying at the outset: Dalí, like so many other
painters of his generation, and despite the good relations he always had
with Picasso, lived permanently obsessed by the genius of the Málaga artist.
http://www.dali-estate.org/eng/index.html
Jack Rubin
in Dalí's approach between what he himself described as 'critical
paranoia' - which lent itself to systematic interpretation - and the element
of automatism upon which his method depended. Breton soon had misgivings
about Dalí's monsters which only lend themselves to a limited, univocal
reading. Dalí's extreme statements on political matters, in particular his
fascination for Hitler, struck a false note in the context of the Surrealist
ethic and his relations with the rest of the group became increasingly
strained after 1934. The break finally came when the painter declared his
support for Franco in 1939. And yet he could boast that he had the backing
of Freud himself, who declared in 1938 that Dalí was the only interesting
case in a movement whose aims he confessed not to understand. Moreover, in
the eyes of the public he was, increasingly as time went by, the Surrealist
par excellence, and he did his utmost to maintain, by way of excessive
exhibitionism in every area, this enviable reputation.
"In 1936, Dalí returned to a classical manner of painting, switching
haphazardly between Italian, Spanish and pompier styles. From 1939 to 1948,
he lived in the United States, cultivating his persona as a genial
eccentric, and earning from Breton the nickname Avida Dollars (an anagram of
his name) in 1940. In Spain once more (at Port Lligat), he provided a
constant source of interest for the gossip columns, which described the
parties he threw, his carefully orchestrated 'eccentricity' and all the pomp
and ceremony of his church wedding in 1958 to Gala (Éluard's first wife),
whom he had first met in 1929 and who was to remain the only woman in his
life, his muse, his model and his most effective agent. If he declared that
Meissonier was a better painter than Picasso, that Perpignan railway station
was the centre of the world, or that Francoism had saved Spain, these were
precisely the sort of statements that people expected of him. His painting,
in the meantime, while technically brilliant, was based on ideas that were
not perhaps as bold and new as they seemed (Christ of Saint John of the
Cross, 1951, for example, or the Crucifixion of 1954) - more a series of
confidence tricks designed to convince the public that Dalí was borrowing
from nuclear physics or 'inventing' the anaglyph relief. In 1965, he turned
his hand to sculpture, contenting himself with repeating themes from his
paintings: a Venus equipped with cupboard drawers, elephants with spiders'
legs, soft watches, etc., worked in bronze or crystal. The purpose of the
post-war lithographs was principally financial: their uncontrolled print
runs and more or less authentic signatures brought discredit on the artistic
mass market of the 1960s. Such 'scandals', however, like the denunciation of
fake Dalís in the 1970s, served to keep a myth alive - a myth that has
proved remarkably durable if the success of both the Dalí museum at
Figueras, which the painter himself set up in 1974, and the major
exhibitions periodically held in celebration of his 'genius' is anything to
go by."
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/
Nikolaus Maack
(in message <11mb901oc7eesh557...@4ax.com>):
> Dali on Picasso:
> " He had a feel for adjectives, but few ideas. He listened to me and
> gratified me with answers full of modifiers. His whole brilliance lay
> in his skill as plagiarist and stager?as jewel?setter. When all was
> said and done, Picasso was a duettist. He always needed a partner:
> Ingres, Delacroix, Velizquez, and others I forget. But he was a
> eunuch, a caricaturing imitator who tore down and made fun of what he
> could not outdo."
It's always tempting to take a critics words and apply them to the critic.
It's a cheap trick, but in this case, a good one. What Dali says here
applies far more to Dali than to Picasso.
After all, Dali was a caricaturing imitator in the extreme, blatantly mocking
and tearing down.
Mani Deli
wrote:
>"It soon became apparent, however, that there was an inherent contradiction
>in Dalí's approach between what he himself described as 'critical
>paranoia' - which lent itself to systematic interpretation - and the element
>of automatism upon which his method depended.
I judge artwork for what it is not verbal contradictions.
> Breton soon had misgivings
>about Dalí's monsters which only lend themselves to a limited, univocal
>reading. Dalí's extreme statements on political matters, in particular his
>fascination for Hitler, struck a false note in the context of the Surrealist
>ethic and his relations with the rest of the group became increasingly
>strained after 1934.
And Dali had misgivings about Breton. So what?
Any disagreements on my part with the above is minor. However the
success of the various Dali Museums is due to the quality of his
artwork not his foibles, political opinions, obsessions, eccentricity
or stupidities. As such he ranks as a master. All that counts in the
end is what's on the wall.
Dali said about Picasso's originality:
"He had a feel for adjectives, but few ideas. He listened to me and
gratified me with answers full of modifiers. His whole brilliance lay
in his skill as plagiarist and stager--as a jewel-setter. When all was
said and done, Picasso was a duettist. He always needed a partner:
Ingres, Delacroix, Velazquez, and others I forgot. But he was a
eunuch, a caricaturing imitator who tore down and made fun of what he
could not outdo. All he knew how to do was distort as he copied."
[Dali #257 confessions]
That's no compliment!
Mani Deli
wrote:
>Like so many other painters of his generation, Dalí lived with an obsession
>about Pablo Picasso (Málaga, 1881 - Mougins, France, 1973). In Dalí's case
>that worry may have made sense to a certain extent, as Picasso was, after
>all, a person close to him.
Dali continually said when asked who are the greatest artists of the
century, "Dali and Picasso. I am the genius of beauty and Picasso is
the genius of ugliness."
You might consider that a compliment. I don't
snip .., it nevertheless shows Picasso'
>s initial interest in the young painter's work.
You can read about that in Dali's autobiography. It is couched in
sarcasm.
>Within such a context it
>need therefore come as no surprise to us that on Dalí's first trip to Paris
>the young artist should hasten to visit Picasso. Picasso received him in his
>studio and showed him how his work was evolving at that time; and Dalí was
>indeed deeply struck by that evolution.
I didn't get that impression
> Picasso's new style, at the time
>more or less close to that of Breton, must have tilted Dalí's way of
>painting for the first time towards surrealism.
De Chirico and other Surrealist influenced Dali. Picasso's surreal
efforts are pathetic.
>Many examples have come down to us of the young painter's admiration for the
>older master. Thus we have a photograph in his studio with a kind of banner
>on which can be read "Long live Picasso!", as well as many writings in which
>he acknowledges time and time again his great indebtedness towards Picasso.
Check out Dali's portrait of Picasso and tell us whether that
expresses admiration.
>During the thirties, when Dalí moved to live in Paris, their mutual
>admiration was maintained. Dalí had already found his own path by then, one
>far-removed from that of Picasso. But the Málaga artist continued to defend
>Dalí staunchly, at a time when not everybody in Paris was so very convinced
>by his work. André Masson, for example, wrote to Kahnweiler on 14 June 1935:
>"Picasso. has been praising Dalí's painting for years; he only refrains from
>doing so in your presence" (André Masson. Les années surréalistes.
>Correspondance 1916-1942. Ed. F. Levaillant, París, 1990, p. 254). Neither
>should we forget that Dalí, for his part, always remained faithful to
>Picasso, as evidenced by a number of letters to him that Picasso may well
>have never replied to; and these letters carried on well into the sixties,
>almost always with just one sentence in them: "In July, no women or snails",
By the 60's Picasso detested Dali and never spoke about him. Dali
wrote to Picasso once a year to annoy him and as far as I know Dali
faked surprise that he never received an answer.
Here's my favorite example,
"Pablo thanks! Your last ignominious paintings have killed modern art.
But for you with the taste and moderation that are the very virtues of
French prudence we should have had painting which was more and more
ugly for at least one hundred years...you...have achieved the limits
and the final consequences of the abominable in a mere few weeks...
etc." signed S, Dali
You might consider that admiration, I sure don't. Picasso even lent
Dali money to come to America. Picasso was dull and took a while to
catch on to the fact that Dali was goofing on him. By 1935 Dali goofed
on all Modern Academic Artists not just Picasso. His writing names
them.
Gorne
> On Mon, 3 May 2004 1:27:48 -0400, Mani Deli wrote
> (in message <11mb901oc7eesh557...@4ax.com>):
>
> > Dali on Picasso:
> > in his skill as plagiarist and stager? as jewel? setter. When all was
> > said and done, Picasso was a duettist. He always needed a partner:
>>
Didn't plagiarism strained the relationship between Braque and Picasso
when they worked at the Bateau Lavoir?
I also thought that Picasso knew Dali when they were student in
Barcelona and that Dali, Picasso and Bunuel were going out to parties
at Le Breton before Bunuel made his filming of a slicing of a human
eye ball.
This is in one of those party that Dali met his wife who at the time
was friendly with Le Breton.
This socializing would explain the influence of Surrealism on the
three Spaniards.
It is noticeable from these text that Picasso was known for his
craftsmanship, his patience as a craftsman and guess what his skill.
Mani Deli
>Nikolaus Maack <nikm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<0001HW.BCBBA0EB...@news1.on.sympatico.ca>...
>> On Mon, 3 May 2004 1:27:48 -0400, Mani Deli wrote
>> (in message <11mb901oc7eesh557...@4ax.com>):
>>
>> > Dali on Picasso:
>> His whole brilliance lay
>> > in his skill as plagiarist and stager? as jewel? setter. When all was
>> > said and done, Picasso was a duettist. He always needed a partner:
>> > Ingress, Delacroix, Velizquez,
>>>
>Didn't plagiarism strained the relationship between Braque and Picasso
>when they worked at the Bateau Lavoir?
>I also thought that Picasso knew Dali when they were student in
>Barcelona and that Dali, Picasso and Bunuel were going out to parties
>at Le Breton before Bunuel made his filming of a slicing of a human
>eye ball.
Your history is off here.
>This is in one of those party that Dali met his wife who at the time
>was friendly with Le Breton.
>This socializing would explain the influence of Surrealism on the
>three Spaniards.
Picasso wasn't ever really a surrealist and had hadn't much directly
to do with the surealist group.
>It is noticeable from these text that Picasso was known for his
>craftsmanship, his patience as a craftsman and guess what his skill.
What texts are you referring to?
denise
bibliography please!
Gorne
> to do with the surealist group.
>
by Picasso. Wasn't minotaure a surrealist magazine?
Your statement really hinges on the word "really"
I agree that Picasso did not stay nor even got into the characteristic
of surrealism. He was tired of surrealism before he even started with
it, I suspect.
Nikolaus Maack
(in message <rp7e90500mjgh6anb...@4ax.com>):
> Picasso wasn't ever really a surrealist and had hadn't much directly
> to do with the surealist group.
Andre Breton was a tyrant and a whore. He tried to lure Picasso into his
little cult -- only because Picasso was becoming famous. But Picasso was too
much of an egomaniac to submit to an egomaniac like Breton.
The history of surrealism is very funny. These people, so keen on liberating
the forces of the unconscious, were often petty, ugly, and small. Breton was
constantly expelling people from the group, making up new rules that must be
obeyed, and generally being a patriarchal bastard.
At one point, Breton had kicked out and scared off everyone from the original
group. He was the only one of the old school left.
My favorite part of surrealist history is when Breton somehow concluded that
all surrealists must be communist -- and kicked out anyone who disagreed.
This led to "the trial of Dali", when Breton decided Dali must go. Why?
Because Dali had painted a funny portrait which mocked Stalin.
Even among the so-called liberated minds of surrealists -- who promoted
automatic writing and letting loose your secret inner thoughts -- certain
topics were considered taboo.
While I like a lot of the surrealist concepts, surrealist history isn't
pretty, but it is entertaining.
Nikolaus Maack
(in message <91f9f335.04050...@posting.google.com>):
> I agree that Picasso did not stay nor even got into the characteristic
> of surrealism. He was tired of surrealism before he even started with
> it, I suspect.
I think Picasso just prefered following his own muse, and was unwilling to
submit to being part of a "group". He flirted with surrealist notions, but
had his own particular direction he wanted to go in.
Dilettante
> Dali on Picasso:
> " He had a feel for adjectives, but few ideas.
Bullshit. Everybody works collaboratively. He worked on the same
themes as Braque and Gris but he did his own work--powerful, real, and
in-your-face.
Go into any print shop and look at any array of prints of paintings.
Some will stand out. Some will be merely flashy for a moment. But
other will stand out because you keep coming back to them, because
there is an ineffeble sense of authenticity about them. Picasso was
one of these. His Rose Period, neo-classical, cubist, all good
periods.
He listened to me and
> gratified me with answers full of modifiers.
This is true of Dali not at all of Picasso. Picasso was the noun. Dali
was a few windy adjectives.
His whole brilliance lay
> in his skill as plagiarist and stager?as jewel?setter.
That is like saying that any car made today that uses the wheel is
plagiarizing the original inventor of the wheel. Everyone takes ideas
from others and builds on them. Picasso adapted ideas, he did not
steal images.
When all was
> said and done, Picasso was a duettist.
If that is so, then Dali was was a isolated egotistical masterbator.
He always needed a partner:
> Ingres, Delacroix, Velizquez, and others I forget. But he was a
> eunuch, a caricaturing imitator who tore down and made fun of what he
> could not outdo."
Picasso's dick is a thousand times the size of Dali's, which was
always, btw, in his own mouth.
Dilettante
Paul Mesken
Great story, it neatly illustrates that even inside every artist
there's not a God but a human being :-)
denise
And that ends that thread! Tada!
Mani Deli
>Mani Deli <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote
>> Picasso wasn't ever really a surrealist and had hadn't much directly
>> to do with the surealist group.
>>
>I thought about the first issue of "Minotaure" with a cover designed
>by Picasso. Wasn't minotaure a surrealist magazine?
Yes
>Your statement really hinges on the word "really"
It does
>I agree that Picasso did not stay nor even got into the characteristic
>of surrealism. He was tired of surrealism before he even started with
>it, I suspect.
His surreal efforts were dull. He couldn't face the challenge in my
opinion because he lacked the technical ability.
Mani Deli
<nikm...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 4 May 2004 0:46:46 -0400, Mani Deli wrote
>(in message <rp7e90500mjgh6anb...@4ax.com>):
>> Picasso wasn't ever really a surrealist and had hadn't much directly
>> to do with the surealist group.
>
>Andre Breton was a tyrant and a whore. He tried to lure Picasso into his
>little cult -- only because Picasso was becoming famous. But Picasso was too
>much of an egomaniac to submit to an egomaniac like Breton.
>
>The history of surrealism is very funny. These people, so keen on liberating
>the forces of the unconscious, were often petty, ugly, and small. Breton was
>constantly expelling people from the group, making up new rules that must be
>obeyed, and generally being a patriarchal bastard.
>
>At one point, Breton had kicked out and scared off everyone from the original
>group. He was the only one of the old school left.
He was also a prude.
>My favorite part of surrealist history is when Breton somehow concluded that
>all surrealists must be communist -- and kicked out anyone who disagreed.
>This led to "the trial of Dali", when Breton decided Dali must go. Why?
>Because Dali had painted a funny portrait which mocked Stalin.
>
He also didn't like Dali's parodies on Hitler and his goofs on the
communist holy sacriment, bread.
>Even among the so-called liberated minds of surrealists -- who promoted
>automatic writing and letting loose your secret inner thoughts -- certain
>topics were considered taboo.
>
>While I like a lot of the surrealist concepts, surrealist history isn't
>pretty, but it is entertaining.
>
Dali's Secret Life," has amusing stuff on the matter.
Gorne
Dali was an isolated egotistical masterbator.
Never the less he was rejected by Breton because he was not a
communist, and ran away with Galia.
I agree with Mani. Dali's writing are always fun. One of my prefered
extract is a description of his uncle who was the ultimum of Dali's
sense of masculin beauty, remembered as the uncle was eating spinach
and camembert cheese, with the deep green of a piece of spinash stuck
between his front teeth contrating with the soft "blanc de naple" of
the cheese.