Have you ever been Hypnotisied by Duchamp?
aharon
Hypnosis is a strategy aimed at developing a kind of filter within a
person’s mind. This is done by an old virtual technology called verbal
language...
A filter is rather like a medium - an artistic medium (any), is
designed so certain sensations, affects, could be mediated while others
could not. Affects and sensations which are not ‘compatible’ with the
medium - are ‘left’ out...
An installation can not mediate what painting does and vice versa...
Mediums filter, and filters create the mediums; on physical, abstract,
imagionatinal and metaphysical levels....
As a medium, VR follows a process of filteration which allows both
users and developers to suspend disbelief or be immersed by the medium.
Filteration draws on:
a) people's need to feel relaxed, (to have some 'peace of mind),
b) concentration of attention and,
c) suggestions relating to that attention.
Thanks for your time + energies;
aharon
a.a...@bton.ac.uk
Mdeli
The above is typical Artspeak for airheads. Wonder if
this guy teaches?
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
aharon
hu...@interlog.com (Mdeli) writes:
The above is typical for a craftsperson pretend to produce art.
Bet this guy has no balls.
Skill is where art dies, my poor artist pretender.
I teach, but also do create art - not with skill but with imagination.
aharon
STEPHENZEZ
> aharon
>> The above is typical Artspeak for airheads. Wonder if
>> this guy teaches?
>>Mani DeLi
>> ...no skill no art
>>
>>>The above is typical for a craftsperson pretending to produce art.
>>>Bet this guy has no balls.
>>>Skill is where art dies, my poor artist pretender.
>>>I teach, but also do create art - not with skill but with imagination.
>>>aharon
Jeeeezzzzz... this goes on and on... and the point is never clear to me...
Why is it that in modern painting so much emphasis seems to be put on this
idea that it's better not to be 'skilled' than to be 'skilled' ?
Aharon says above,
" ... I create art - not with skill but with imagination." Hmmm... well,
I don't get it... what am I missing here, I mean wouldn't it be better
(maybe even necessary ?) to create art using imagination AND skill ? Why
isn't this debate an issue (at least not to the extent it is here) in
other arts... for example a musician learns how to read/write music,
practices his scales, gets his chops down, etc., etc,and there's no
problem with that, nobody jumps down his throat for being 'skilled' .
Excuse me for being so ignorant... I love art though I don't have
any formal training in it... Could anybody help clarify this for me ?
Thanks very much, Stephen
J Borsky
ART = imaginative skill as applied to representations of the natural world
or figments of the imagination (Collins Dictionary, 1986).
The comparison with musicians is a very valid one.
Musicians serve as a beacon of sanity to anyone involved in visual arts
today. They respect tradition and do not rush their development. And if
they do they are quickly found out.
Brad Burkhart
>>>> The above is typical Artspeak for airheads. Wonder if
>>>> this guy teaches?
>>>>Mani DeLi
>>>> ...no skill no art
>>>>>The above is typical for a craftsperson pretending to produce art.
>>>>>Bet this guy has no balls.
>>>>>Skill is where art dies, my poor artist pretender.
>>>>>I teach, but also do create art - not with skill but with imagination.
>>>>>aharon
>>
>>Jeeeezzzzz... this goes on and on... and the point is never clear to me...
>>Why is it that in modern painting so much emphasis seems to be put on this
>>
>>idea that it's better not to be 'skilled' than to be 'skilled' ?
>>Aharon says above,
>>" ... I create art - not with skill but with imagination." Hmmm... well,
>>I don't get it... what am I missing here, I mean wouldn't it be better
>>(maybe even necessary ?) to create art using imagination AND skill ? Why
>>isn't this debate an issue (at least not to the extent it is here) in
>>other arts... for example a musician learns how to read/write music,
>>practices his scales, gets his chops down, etc., etc,and there's no
>>problem with that, nobody jumps down his throat for being 'skilled' .
>today. They respect tradition and do not rush their development. And if
>they do they are quickly found out.
>
>Jiri
I think that a main point that is often missing from this argument is that
there are plenty of artists who are both "skilled" and "imaginative" but who
draw upon influences that are not within the mainstream of acceptable art
by some people.
Using the music analogy, a musician who studies the rythyms and structures of
African folk music and incorporates this into their ouevre may be said to be
lacking in skill. The real objection may be that they are not stepping in line
and carrying on the western European tradition.
It is self-serving to question the skill level of those whose art differs
greatly from our own. I believe that it also shows a pretty fair amount of
insecurity about ones own standing in the art world.
(and I mean the whole world not just the western European one that seems to be
over represented here)
Brad Burkhart
Moving to further a vision of art that is global in nature!
STEPHENZEZ
>I think that a main point that is often missing from this argument is
that
>there are plenty of artists who are both "skilled" and "imaginative" but
who
>draw upon influences that are not within the mainstream of acceptable art
>by some people.
>Using the music analogy, a musician who studies the rythyms and
structures of
>African folk music and incorporates this into their ouevre may be said to
be
>lacking in skill. The real objection may be that they are not stepping in
line
>and carrying on the western European tradition.
Well... I disagree with your comment about the music analogy.
Specifically:
"... a musician who studies the rhythms and structures of African folk
music and incorporates this into their ouevre may be said to be lacking in
skill."
I don't understand why you say this... personally I'd be very interested
to hear something like that and I wouldn't think there was anything
unskillful about it.
In fact I'd think this musician to be rather skillful and imaginative if
he could pull it off. The first musician who comes to mind as an example
of this kind of work is
Peter Gabriel (his work with Youssou' n Dour (spelling?) , etc.), and his
instrumental music for the soundtrack (called "Passion") of Martin
Scorsesi's(sp.?) film "Last Temptation Of Jesus Christ".
Another example I like is Jimmy Page/Robert Plant's influence by middle
eastern rhythms/structures in their 1994 album "No Quarter... ".
Or how about David Byrne's work with Brazilian rhythms/structures?
I don't see any of these examples as "lacking in skill". To the contrary
I think
these artists must have been super-skillful (and super-imaginative) to
pull off such
works.
Later, Stephen
Brad Burkhart
>Well... I disagree with your comment about the music analogy.
>Specifically:
> "... a musician who studies the rhythms and structures of African folk
>music and incorporates this into their ouevre may be said to be lacking in
>skill."
> I don't understand why you say this... personally I'd be very interested
>to hear something like that and I wouldn't think there was anything
>unskillful about it.
> In fact I'd think this musician to be rather skillful and imaginative if
>he could pull it off.
Stephen, I agree wih you 100%
I believe that artists who are influenced by other cultures are some of the
best.
My point is that many people are equating non-western or primitive influence
with lack of skill. Also, I percieve a lack of understanding about how we ,in
our
western Euro. based culture, view the art of other cultures.
Using the music analogy again, Peter Gabriel is a good example of an artist
who
is influenced by the arts of a foreign culture(African folk music for
example).
One thing he does in incorporating this music into his own is to make it more
palatable to our western sensibilities.
Does his doing this make him any more "skilled" than the African tribesmen
whose
music he appropriates? Is art that seems foreign or primitive to us less
accomplished because it does not fit into our pre-formed notions of what
constitutes a work of art.
In the visual arts, many of the artists who are looked upon unfavorably by
those
espousing the "skill" argument (ie. Pablo Picasso, Jackson Pollack, Jean
DuBuffet
and more recent artists such as Francesco Clemente, Ross Bleckner, Jean Michel
Basquiat and Keith Haring) all fall into the category of artists who are
heavily
influenced by art of other cultures, primitive art, so called outsider art
and folk art to name a few.
Are these artists less "skilled" because they are not making an art that fits
into
our European heritage but rather leans more heavily on African, Oriental, folk
American Indian or other traditions? My points may be taken as obvious to
those
participating in today`s widely varied art community. However, there are still
a great number of people within the art community and (more importantly) in
the general populace as a whole, who view art from non-western sources as
being unskilled.
I believe this is an area which requires a greater educational emphasis for it
reflects
the general sophistication level of our society as a whole.
Brad Burkhart
and then the harder they come the harder they fall one and all
Mdeli
a.a...@bton.ac.uk (aharon) wrote:
>In article <4lgvmp$j...@steel.interlog.com>
>hu...@interlog.com (Mdeli) writes:
>> a.a...@bton.ac.uk (aharon) wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Hypnosis is a strategy aimed at developing a kind of filter within a
>> >personÕs mind. This is done by an old virtual technology called verbal
>> >language...
>> >A filter is rather like a medium - an artistic medium (any), is
snip...
>> >As a medium, VR follows a process of filteration which allows both
>> >users and developers to suspend disbelief or be immersed by the medium.
>> >Filteration draws on:
>> >a) people's need to feel relaxed, (to have some 'peace of mind),
>> >b) concentration of attention and,
>> >c) suggestions relating to that attention.
>>
>> >Thanks for your time + energies;
>> >aharon
>> >a.a...@bton.ac.uk
>>
>> The above is typical Artspeak for airheads. Wonder if
>> this guy teaches?
>>
>> Mani DeLi
>> ...no skill no art
>>
>The above is typical for a craftsperson pretend to produce art.
> Bet this guy has no balls.
I think you lack imagination
>Skill is where art dies, my poor artist pretender.
>I teach, but also do create art - not with skill but with imagination.
>aharon
Can you imagin going to school to learn imagination
from someone who admits he has no skill?. If you
haven't a good imagination forget about art and get a
job. I'm sure Ahron's paintings are teaming with
imagination with a couple of balls thrown in.
As to the great Duchamp:
Duchamp was talented, possessed intellect and some
skill but he was a lazy fart.
He produced more gas then painting. His early painted
works are interesting
and are among the few abstract works which express
three dimensions. He is
historically admired for doing all the show-biz
nonsense which is presently
required for fashionable success today. His urinal,
most later works and lots
of his statements are really just plain stupid. He was
a Dadaist who outlived
his time and admitted it. He did the right thing by
taking rich old ladies for
a ride long before Warhol got the idea. He remained
fashionable unlike so many
other Dadaist losers.
Duchamp is also a major academic role model for most of
today's students of Modern Academic Art.
They attempt to repeat his antiquated ideas and suffer
a nostalgia for a Dadaistic world that never was. They
evoke the old nonsense aesthetics in Post Modernist
babble which they imagine is utterly new.
The Modern Academic student unlike Duchamp, can't draw,
has
little knowledge of art history, lacks technical skill
and intellect and imagines
himself a great artist.
Unlike Duchamp the Modern Art student never earned his
right to
laziness and is in most cases destined as an artist to
earn purely abstract
non-objective money. His ideas of how to fashionably
shock people without the
medium of artistic skill are but boring repetition. The
few artists in the
Modern Art rat race who do make it to the top of the
heap and earn those
coveted millions are about as deserving as lottery
winners.
Mani DeLi
... No skill no art.
Mdeli
J Borsky <bor...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>steph...@aol.com (STEPHENZEZ) wrote:
>>> ... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...
>>> aharon
>>
>>>> The above is typical Artspeak for airheads. Wonder if
>>>> this guy teaches?
>>>>Mani DeLi
>>>> ...no skill no art
>>>>
>>
>>>>>The above is typical for a craftsperson pretending to produce art.
>>>>>Bet this guy has no balls.
>>>>>Skill is where art dies, my poor artist pretender.
>>>>>I teach, but also do create art - not with skill but with imagination.
>>>>>aharon
>>
>>Jeeeezzzzz... this goes on and on... and the point is never clear to me...
>>Why is it that in modern painting so much emphasis seems to be put on this
>>
Those first to denigrate skill are usually those who
lack it.
To admire work which exhibits no skill does indeed
require a strong imagination. I believe that one can
put imagination to better uses,
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art.
"The supreme tragedy is when one's abilities do not
live up asperations." S. Dali
aharon
The following lines present a communication between the Hypnotist
(aharon) and the subject (Mdeli).
It starts with a simple general proposition, then the subject, Mdeli's
imagination, is provoked into a trance....
> >> >Hypnosis is a strategy aimed at developing a kind of filter within a
> >> >personÕs mind. This is done by an old virtual technology called verbal
> >> >language...
> >> >A filter is rather like a medium - an artistic medium (any), is
> snip...
> >> >As a medium, VR follows a process of filteration which allows both
> >> >users and developers to suspend disbelief or be immersed by the medium.
> >> >Filteration draws on:
> >> >a) people's need to feel relaxed, (to have some 'peace of mind),
> >> >b) concentration of attention and,
> >> >c) suggestions relating to that attention.
> >>
> >> >Thanks for your time + energies;
> >> >aharon
> >> >a.a...@bton.ac.uk
> >>
> >> The above is typical Artspeak for airheads. Wonder if
> >> this guy teaches?
> >>
> >> Mani DeLi
> >> ...no skill no art
> >>
> >The above is typical for a craftsperson pretend to produce art.
> > Bet this guy has no balls.
>
> I think you lack imagination
>
> >Skill is where art dies, my poor artist pretender.
> >I teach, but also do create art - not with skill but with imagination.
> >aharon
>
aharon email:a.a...@bton.ac.uk
Researcher at
C.C.C.W.
University of Brighton Tel.: (0)1273 643 119
England
Bruce Attah
In article <4m0902$5...@fish.phl.pond.com>, bra...@pond.com (Brad
Burkhart) wrote:
> My point is that many people are equating non-western or primitive influence
> with lack of skill. Also, I percieve a lack of understanding about how we ,in
> our western Euro. based culture, view the art of other cultures.
I'd very much like to hear your description of how you perceive the art of
other cultures--and what it is that I, as a pro-skiller, fail to
understand.