Absolute beginner oil painting question
Michael Van Kleeck
...after developing a passion for art in the last year, I thought it
might be fun to try my hand at oil painting. My wife bought me some
simple supplies for Christmas (brushes, paints, etc...) and now I'm
dabbling in my garage and having a great time.
My question...I've read a few intro to painting books at the libraray,
but I still don't understand how to use a medium! Do I pour it in my
dipper cup, dip my brush in it, and then dip my brush in the paint? Do I
mix my paint with it? I understand the idea of fat over lean, but I just
don't know how to use a medium.
Any tips are greatly appreciated!
-Michael
Larry Seiler
> mix my paint with it? I understand the idea of fat over lean, but I just
> don't know how to use a medium.
>
> Any tips are greatly appreciated!
>
> -Michael
- - - - -
You've mentioned a couple ways that are often practiced...one of course
dipping the brush tip in....and then into the paint.
Since oil drys from the outside working in...I think we want to keep the
surface and the paint as uniform as possible drying together. There is an
exception of course when one uses retouch varnish over the "whole" picture
to start a new session.
For me.....the only time I dip and go to paint....dip and go to paint....is
when I have a rag twisted around my index finger and go to turps then to
the palette, using the paint as a wash to block in the shapes. That is my
underpainting process.
When I go to my paint however, one thing sticks with me from my past years
of being influenced by the Baroque Dutch painters....and that was that the
paint was preferred to have a "buttery" consistency.
I don't like to feel like I'm fighting with the paint. I know its been
said many times that the Impressionists used paint straight from the tube,
but for my good, it is often just too doggone stiff and forces things upon
me rather than leave me feeling in charge. When I paint, especially
outdoors, I want things to work with my rythym and speed....and don't want
paint fighting me.
So...I like the buttery consistency idea. However...I play a little game
with myself as concerns oil.....and use a rule that is forcing me more and
more to gain mastery over the brushstroke and color. That rule is "a
brushstroke laid, is a brushstroke stayed!" Thus....I'm not going to go
over and over something I laid down on the canvas to blend it out. I'm
going to learn to let the eye mix the color simply by stepping back a bit
from the picture.
That being said.....the paint doesn't need to be "slicked" with much
medium.
Comes back to the buttery consistency. After my turps first stage. I mix
my medium....(1/4 Damar Varnish, 1/4 Stand Oil, 1/2 turps) with my paint
using a palette knife to get a whipped butter consistency. When I whip my
knife thru, I go for the paint dragging with it on the up stroke, leaving a
segment of paint holding that pose. Thicker than mayonaise.....about like
whipped butter.
All prepared.....I don't use anymore medium.
I will add several drops of Cobalt Drier also, well mixed into the paint.
But cobalt is very toxic, and shouldn't be touched.....should also mix
cobalt where its well ventilated.
Here's one other trick I learned I'd recommend everyone adapt. I don't
clean my brushes with turps, because turps dries the hairs of the brush
out, makes them brittle, and break off....making brights flats....and
flats...stubs. I use kerosene, for it has more petroleum in it that coats
the hairs of the brush and is kinder to the brush. It acts as a solvent
and still removes the pigment, but coats the brush. I took a small
mushroom can emptied and cleaned, punched holes in the bottom of it and put
it upside down in a bigger soup can for which it just fit, and to this
added the kerosene. I have just a sandwich baggie over the top with a
rubber band.....and it keeps much longer than turps.
hope that helps...!
Larry Seiler
my art web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
"Art attacks can skill!"
A. B. Sieze
>
>Forgive me for my complete ignorance....
>My question...I've read a few intro to painting books at the libraray,
>but I still don't understand how to use a medium! Do I pour it in my
>dipper cup, dip my brush in it, and then dip my brush in the paint? Do I
>mix my paint with it? I understand the idea of fat over lean, but I just
>don't know how to use a medium.
Would you believe that I started out the same as you over
30 years ago. And I'm still at it! When I finally got around
to attending University art classes in later years, I was in
a SENIOR painting class, watching a fellow student struggle
with tube colors of those 'student grade' paints, trying to
paint without using ANY medium. So I said to her "Wouldn't it
be easier if you used some medium?" And her reply to me was
something like "What's a medium?"
So don't ask anyone's forgiveness for not knowing how to use
mediums as a beginner. That girl was ready to graduate after
four years of art school and didn't even know what it was!
To answer you questions as you asked them -- you do ALL OF THOSE
THINGS. Depending on what it is you're trying to achieve. Mixing
the medium correctly in the first place is primary. A good blend
to start with is one third each of turpentine, linseed oil, and
damar varnish. You can experiment by substituting stand oil or
sun-thickened linseed oil and using a bit of mineral spirits.
What medium you actually use is a very personal choice but also
based on the correctness of the chemistry for oil painting and
for advice on that you should have Mayer's ARTIST HANDBOOK
as your guide.
Thin the paint as it comes from the tube by mixing in some
medium on your palette if that helps the brushing consistency.
Dip your brush in a palette cup full of medium if you don't
want to thin the entire glob of paint on the palette but want
that particular brush load to be more fluid. You'll quickly
learn and may have already answered your own questions by the
time your read this. Good Luck, Abby.
Degas5
>I will add several drops of Cobalt Drier also, well mixed into the paint.
Larry,
Your advice should be most helpful to this beginning artist however, regarding
the cobalt drier, we should add that a precise amount of drops should be added
to the medium indicated, maybe following the Mayer formula.I love cobalt drier,
for it's drying properties, especially in glazing, but alot of my fellow
coworkers 'dis' it because of it's darkening effects with overuse. I always
refer to the "bible", The Artists Handbook, and if Ralph says its ok for him,
it's ok for me:).
I'd like to add that, for a beginning artist, he might want to substitute a bit
of alkyd medium, like liquin, for the drier.
Regards, Bonnie
Charles Eicher
> Forgive me for my complete ignorance....
>
> ...after developing a passion for art in the last year, I thought it
> might be fun to try my hand at oil painting. My wife bought me some
> simple supplies for Christmas (brushes, paints, etc...) and now I'm
> dabbling in my garage and having a great time.
>
> My question...I've read a few intro to painting books at the libraray,
> but I still don't understand how to use a medium! Do I pour it in my
> dipper cup, dip my brush in it, and then dip my brush in the paint? Do I
> mix my paint with it? I understand the idea of fat over lean, but I just
> don't know how to use a medium.
>
> Any tips are greatly appreciated!
You have to mix the medium into the paint. The way I use medium is as follows:
I use a large glass palette, sitting level on a table. First, I mix the
color I want (or something close, since I constantly vary this) out of the
raw pigments, putting it in the center of my pallette (I keep the colors in
a ring around the edge). I keep my medium in a squeeze bottle so its easy
to apply small amounts. I squeeze the medium right onto the pile of paint,
then use a pallette knife to mix it into the paint. I usually smear it back
and forth on the glass until all the medium is incorporated into the paint.
Its easiest to do this with a long knife with flat edges (makes it easier
to scrape the paint back together for another smush).
Some people like to mix paints with their brushes, but I don't. Brushes are
for painting, pallete knives are for mixing. Brushes wear out, but knives
don't. Don't subject your brushes to extra wear and tear. Of course, you
always need to do a LITTLE mixing with the brush, but for the initial
stages (mixing medium) the pallete knife is faster and easier)
One word of caution, don't dip your brushes into the raw medium, if you
keep it in a cup. You don't want to contaminate the medium with other
colors off your brush.
----------------
Charles Eicher
cei...@inav.net
----------------
Michael Van Kleeck
to see what works for me. A local art store was closing so we got a few
different things very cheaply (linseed oil, alkyds, copal varnish) and
I've got some mineral spirits and some recommended medium recipes in
some different books. Now that I know how to use the stuff, it'll be fun
to play with.
Again, thanks a lot- I'm really enjoying this. It's great stress relief
and it's rewarding to look at a painting and say, "I did that!", even if
it resembles a 6-year-old's finger painting!
-MVK
Larry Seiler
Cobalt myself....but Don Jusko's site on paints and mediums is about the
most definitive exhaustive site I know...check out his post here on this
group dated 1/1/99 with about 296 lines just as an example....and from his
web site, and other reading...I saw that Liquin is a progressive
drier..that oil needs to dry from the outside in....and that Liquin might
do it in layers not in sync. Cobalt seems to work best with this drying
process.
I followed the advice of Paul Strisik to add only a few drops of Cobalt to
the colored pigments...and more to the titanium white ( I add about 10-12
drops ), and of course knowing how paint is mixed...that made sense and
works for me.
Some think on terms of percent....and think about 2-5% of the medium as
Cobalt.
Experimentation certainly seems to be the only factor that will determine
satisfaction. I've never used so much Cobalt yet that I've had a
discoloring problem.
later....
--
Larry Seiler
my art web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
"Art attacks can skill!"
Degas5 <deg...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990103120127...@ng111.aol.com>...
Degas5
>.I saw that Liquin is a progressive
>drier..that oil needs to dry from the outside in....and that Liquin might
>do it in layers not in sync. Cobalt seems to work best with this drying
>process.
You're right about Don Jusko's website. I read his post of l/l and printed out
for my own reference library on mediums and then visited his site. I thought
that liquin would be a good drier for a beginning artist, because it is
relatively safe as far as toxicity (even though it has a very strong odor) and
can be used as it comes from the jar. As the artist becomes more proficient in
his painting, he'll probably experiment with other driers, but that's what I
ususally recommend to artists starting out. As for myself, I don't like the
stuff. It dries too slick for me to work on after a while.
BTW, cobalt has always been my favorite, but I became ill not long ago and
decided not to mess around with it.
Bonnie
Larry Seiler
yeah.....isn't he nuts? (hi Don...know you're probably reading!), I mean
is his site a commitment or what? Great resource!
> I thought
> that liquin would be a good drier for a beginning artist,
well....you are no doubt right on here. A relatively younger painter I'm
teaching uses Liquin all the time.
> As for myself, I don't like the
> stuff. It dries too slick for me to work on after a while.
I agree whole heartedly.
> BTW, cobalt has always been my favorite, but I became ill not long ago
and
> decided not to mess around with it.
well....I have to admit I'm a little leary of the stuff. I have asthma,
though controlled with medication. A condition that I got after getting my
lungs scarred with pneumonia back in the US navy in the early 70's. The
odor from the cobalt isn't something I sense my lungs are too agreeable
with. I like though that you can have complete control with it.
Personally....I hope something better comes along someday.
peace....
Larry
Degas5
>well....I have to admit I'm a little leary of the stuff. I have asthma,
>though controlled with medication. A condition that I got after getting my
>lungs scarred with pneumonia back in the US navy in the early 70's. The
>odor from the cobalt isn't something I sense my lungs are too agreeable
>with. I like though that you can have complete control with it.
>Personally....I hope something better comes along someday.
>
>peace....
>
>Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
Larry,
I also have asthma, controlled by steroid inhaler. I'm not bothered by most
painting mediums, however, last year a married couple in my painting class
repeatedly used turpentine bought at Home Depot, which had the strongest smell
and a number of people were irritated by it. I came to class with a cold and
it brought on an asthma episode that landed me in the hospital. You probably
are aware that asthma weakens your immune system and after contracting another
disease last year that could be the result of a weakened immune system I
decided to stop using cobalt. I heard that it is neurotoxin and is a known
carcinogen, even airborne.
Bonnie
A. B. Sieze
>One word of caution, don't dip your brushes into the raw medium, if you
>keep it in a cup. You don't want to contaminate the medium with other
>colors off your brush.
Uhhhh... I do that all the time. The secret is to just dip the
tip in without touching the cup sides or bottom. Of course if
you are painting with a really runny paint -- which I never do --
the contamination may be more problematic. I agree fully with
the rest of your commentary since that is the way I work too.
Cheers, Abby.
A. B. Sieze
>last year a married couple in my painting class
>repeatedly used turpentine bought at Home Depot, which had the strongest smell
>and a number of people were irritated by it.
One of the strongest arguments yet for using acrylics
in a classroom setting. I suspect that there are
plenty of people like yourselves who would take painting
and other art classes if they could be assured they'd
not be breathing fumes from one thing or another. Abby.
GoGen
>but I still don't understand how to use a medium! Do I pour it in my
>dipper cup, dip my brush in it, and then dip my brush in the paint? Do I
>mix my paint with it? I understand the idea of fat over lean, but I just
>don't know how to use a medium.
I use oil colurs in a tube by squeezing out a certain amount of paint
on a piece of glass (I don't like anything else because glass doesn't
absorb the liquid), then putting the brush in the medium, then mixing
the colour with it. I add a bit more medium for painting on glass, but
you might want to have it a bit dryer for impressionism on canvas.
Of course, you can "paint" without medium at all if you appy the colur
with a small spade.
Make sure you pour only so much medium how much you'll use, because if
you keep the whole bottle (or whatever) constantly opened some
medium's components will evaporate and the rest will be unusable.
Goran Generalic
-----
"Gallery J. Generalic" - Croatian Naive Art
www.generalic.com
-----
Degas5
>One of the strongest arguments yet for using acrylics
>in a classroom setting. I suspect that
>One of the strongest arguments yet for using acrylics
>in a classroom setting. I suspect that
Abby,
I've been in this class with the same group of artists for the past 12 years.
In that time, noone has ever used anything but artist's turps. We even have a
large can of odorless turpenoid that I bought with petty cash for anyone who
needs it, and this couple persist in using the raw stuff. I paint in
watercolors and acrylics as well, but this is my one and only oil class and I'm
not going to make any changes. They'll have to change their ways. We've been
patient and given them some slack by not advising the director of the program
of the health violation. Actually, they are nice people and I would like them
to remain. I just don't think that they realize how toxic that stuff is in a
classroom situation especially. Bonnie
br...@wralaw.com
go...@generalic.com (GoGen) wrote:
> >but I still don't understand how to use a medium! Do I pour it in my
> >dipper cup, dip my brush in it, and then dip my brush in the paint? Do I
> >mix my paint with it? I understand the idea of fat over lean, but I just
> >don't know how to use a medium.
Most experts, and especially "modern Masters" don't know. Lately I have
been putting the paint on paper(though as is stated below glass would be
better) and adding clean varnish and oil in an eyeballed percentage.
And then painting with pure turpentine. In the past I used straight
terps in the begining or terps and high quality copal, and later used
combinations of stand oil, venetian terpentine, liquid amber, and
other oils/resins.
I have always wanted to but never have, made a paste out of dry
pigments with terp or volatile mineral oil in order to have total
controll over the oil/varnish content of the paint.
My suspicion is that some artists esp. Vermeer may have mulled
the paint for overpainting with pure stand oil and or even pure
varnish. In the pure tube world this is impossible since all
form linseed oil pastes.
> I use oil colurs in a tube by squeezing out a certain amount of paint
> on a piece of glass (I don't like anything else because glass doesn't
> absorb the liquid),
I will maybe try this. I do think however that an oily color might
need to be placed on absorbent paper first if used in the primary
layers.
>then putting the brush in the medium, then mixing
> the colour with it. I add a bit more medium for painting on glass, but
> you might want to have it a bit dryer for impressionism on canvas.
> Of course, you can "paint" without medium at all if you appy the colur
> with a small spade.
Or a monolayer or acrylicor alkyde,
> Make sure you pour only so much medium how much you'll use, because if
> you keep the whole bottle (or whatever) constantly opened some
> medium's components will evaporate and the rest will be unusable.
Doesn't this depend on the medium. ? I was under the impression that
balsam, and Damar can be re"hydrated" with terps.
> Goran Generalic
> -----
> "Gallery J. Generalic" - Croatian Naive Art
> www.generalic.com
--
Bryn Ayers
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Larry Seiler
> decided to stop using cobalt. I heard that it is neurotoxin and is a
known
> carcinogen, even airborne.
> Bonnie
Grrr eat! I take two types of steroids, but once in awhile an odor gets
me, just reaches out and grabs me. Cobalt isn't that bad...but I've tried
to intentionally be careful.. didn't know about the carcinogen side of it.
Good grief.
Thanks for the info.....I think.
8?\
Larry
Charles Eicher
(Degas5) wrote:
> >One of the strongest arguments yet for using acrylics
> >in a classroom setting. I suspect that
> Abby,
> I've been in this class with the same group of artists for the past 12 years.
> In that time, noone has ever used anything but artist's turps. We even have a
> large can of odorless turpenoid that I bought with petty cash for anyone who
> needs it, and this couple persist in using the raw stuff. I paint in
> watercolors and acrylics as well, but this is my one and only oil class
and I'm
> not going to make any changes. They'll have to change their ways. We've been
> patient and given them some slack by not advising the director of the program
> of the health violation. Actually, they are nice people and I would like them
> to remain. I just don't think that they realize how toxic that stuff is in a
> classroom situation especially. Bonnie
Raw turps vapor isn't nearly as toxic as many of the common pigments used
in oil painting. Maybe you remember a few years ago when they tried to
outlaw Cadmium pigments? But anyway, its only toxic if you inhale it. If
you don't have adequate ventilation in your studio, its your own fault, not
the turps.
FYI, the local community college only allows acrylic painting in its
studio. I used to see transfer students from that school who would take oil
painting, and they had terrible troubles adjusting to the new medium. I'd
rather see people start with oil painting, acrylic (IMHO) gives people a
set of bad habits that are hard to break.
Charles Eicher
wrote:
Well, I'll stand by my remarks. There is actually a real tool designed for
dipping medium from a cup, it sorta looks like cross between a pallette
knife and a spoon. It has a tiny hemispherical spoon that sorta looks like
a melon-baller. But I've never seen anyone who had one, just an
illustration in a catalog.
Contaminating colors is often a problem for beginners, I see tons of muddy
colors because people aren't cleaning their brushes, or they use a
contaminated brush to drag in white and they accidentally get some awful
color pushed into their pile of white paint, which affects later mixing.
Keep it clean, and there's no problems. I suspect you are really saying
that you are only putting CLEAN brushes into the medium, which is OK I
suppose. I still think its easier to mix with brushes by placing medium on
the pallette and mixing the color there. It offers a bit more control.
Degas5
>Raw turps vapor isn't nearly as toxic as many of the common pigments used
>in oil painting.
>Raw turps vapor isn't nearly as toxic as many of the common pigments used
>in oil painting.
> But anyway, its only toxic if you inhale it. If
Well, that's my grievance. We're inhaling those awful fumes and they're
irritating my lungs and many others in the class. I've used all kinds of oil
painting mediums and nothing came close to the raw turp. Even with ventilation
it was intolerable. When I use toxic pigments or mediums, I take adequate
precautions like wearing barrier cream or gloves or not using my fingers. You
refer to cadmium pigments; they're toxic if you eat them, like lead but when
turpentine becomes airborn and it does, especially when you swish it around to
clean up those brushes, I believe it is very unhealthy.
Bonnie
A. B. Sieze
>Well, that's my grievance. We're inhaling those awful fumes and they're
>irritating my lungs and many others in the class. I've used all kinds of oil
>painting mediums and nothing came close to the raw turp. Even with ventilation
>it was intolerable.
I think that the artist turps are just as toxic as the
commercial stuff you're referring to. It's the impurities
in the commercial stuff that may add to the odor load
and to the psychological impression that it is more toxic.
Usually the impurity is sulfur compounds that cause the
heightened odors. As for the stuff being in the air, the
artist grade is likely just as volatile in that regard,
but since you don't smell it as much due to its being
purer you are lulled into thinking it is less toxic.
As Charles says, good health in a classroom studio where
you have many people working is a function of how often the
air in the room is changed per minute. That is something
that an air conditioning specialist (and OSHA) can measure.
Good ventilation is the key. And if you can't bring in fresh
air, filtering with industrial-grade organic vapor filters
is the next best alternative -- albeit probably the most
expensive one. Cheers, Abby.
A. B. Sieze
>I suspect you are really saying
>that you are only putting CLEAN brushes into the medium, which is OK I
>suppose. I still think its easier to mix with brushes by placing medium on
>the pallette and mixing the color there. It offers a bit more control.
NOPE. I was replying to your comment -- that dipping a paint-loaded
brush into a palette cup full of medium would contaminate the
medium. If you haven't learned who I am by now, you should know
that I'm neither a beginner nor someone who knows not about that which
I speak. I speak MOSTLY from experience as opposed to those who
speak from some intellectual point of view taken from some third
source of info. I do NOT advocate mixing paint with a brush. That
was NOT the issue in my reply to you. The person who started this
thread was seeking info specifically on the use of mediums and
my advice to them is based on nearly 40 years of painting experience,
mostly with oil paints. Everyone has their own preferences though,
and I respect yours to not dip your paint brush into your palette
cup. My purpose in doing so suits my particular method of painting.
Cheers, Abby.
Charles Eicher
(Degas5) wrote:
> > I still think its easier to mix with brushes by placing medium on
> >>the pallette and mixing the color there. It offers a bit more control.
>
> I find your method a bit awkward, especially if you're holding your palette
> when painting. Most artists I know use palette cups. They clip onto your
> palette and you dip your brush in as you paint.
You know, I've never ever seen anyone paint with a hand-held palette,
except for Bob Ross. Everyone I've ever known uses a big flat pallette on a
table. I even have one of those portable easels with a handheld pallette,
but I just lay it down on the drawer and use it just like it was sitting on
a table.
> ..I've been doing it for years
> and I'm a stickler for purity in color. It's the turpentine that one uses to
> clean the brush while painting that muddies the color and not the bit of
> pigment that you might pick up in a medium cup.
Well, I'll agree with you there, that sloppily cleaned brushes in dirty
turps are the #1 source of contaminated colors. But I still prefer to keep
brushes out of the medium. The more sources of contamination you can
eliminate, the less you have to think about.
> ..I don't mean to sound
> critical of your practice and I'm sure it works for you in achieving clean
> mixtures, but you practice is unusual and might take away from the
immediacy of
> the painting. I said"might". I might also be wrong, since I never
painted the
> way you do. I guess you gotta do what feels natural. Bonnie
Most of my techniques are straight out of Mayer, my only innovation is to
use a squeeze-bottle of medium instead of a cup. Maybe I'm weird, I started
college as a chemistry major, and I was taught that you never put a
contaminated instrument into clean chemistry.
Maybe I should clarify. When I start painting, the first thing I do arrange
all my colors around the edge of my glass pallette (usually its 2x3 feet)
with a big pile of white in the left corner, a small pile of black inthe
right, and pairs of cool/warm next to each other for easy mixing (i.e. cad
red next to alizarin crimson) and the near edge is blank (so I can wipe it
off in that direction). Then I mix up some medium and white, since I use
white when mixing many different colors. That white goes in the front
center of my pallette, with lots of empty room in the center for other
mixing. Then I can mix up colors by dragging them in with a pallette knife
towards the center, and mixing with a squirt of medium as needed. It only
takes a few seconds to mix any color I want. Its plenty spontaneous, since
you can just drag in new colors with the brush or knife if you need a tiny
adjustment. Then adjust with whites, as needed. I usually have the pallette
knife in my left hand, so I mix the colors with left, and paint with the
right hand.
BTW, I have noted that it is not usually a problem getting the color you
want, the real problem is getting precisely the same color AGAIN, after
you've used up what you mixed and need some more. Yes, it might be unusual
to keep track of your pallete so closely. That's just what I do. Maybe I
have weird color habits, learned from years of doing precision digital
color retouching, but it works for me. And its pretty similar to the
methods of all the good painters I know personally.
Degas5
> I still think its easier to mix with brushes by placing medium on
>>the pallette and mixing the color there. It offers a bit more control.
I find your method a bit awkward, especially if you're holding your palette
when painting. Most artists I know use palette cups. They clip onto your
palette and you dip your brush in as you paint. I've been doing it for years
and I'm a stickler for purity in color. It's the turpentine that one uses to
clean the brush while painting that muddies the color and not the bit of
pigment that you might pick up in a medium cup. I don't mean to sound
Degas5
>I think that the artist turps are just as toxic as the
>commercial stuff you're referring to. It's the impurities
>in the commercial stuff that may add to the odor load
>and to the psychological impression that it is more toxic.
>Usually the impurity is sulfur compounds that cause the
>heightened odors. As for the stuff being in the air, the
>artist grade is likely just as volatile in that regard,
>but since you don't smell it as much due to its being
>purer you are lulled into thinking it is less toxic.
>As Charles says, good health in a classroom studio where
>you have many people working is a function of how often the
>air in the room is changed per minute. That is something
>that an air conditioning specialist (and OSHA) can measure.
>Good ventilation is the key. And if you can't bring in fresh
>air, filtering with industrial-grade organic vapor filters
>is the next best alternative -- albeit probably the most
>expensive one. Cheers, Abby.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Well, I would think that since a number of us are sensitive only to that
particular turpentine and not to any other solvent that has been used in this
class for the last l2 years, that in itself says something. I am not an
authority on the toxic nature of which I speak, but I do have asthma and I KNOW
that raw turpentine has a much different effect on the respiratory system than
artist's turpentine. We have two classroom studios and that odor drove half
the students into the next classroom. As for adequate ventilation, this is a
public school classroom studio. We always have some windows open, even during
cold weather. I've been using turps for years and I'm aware that even though
it might be odorless of have a citrus smell it is still a volatile substance.
I always tell my customers to use it in a well ventilated room.
Bonnie
Larry Seiler
> except for Bob Ross. Everyone I've ever known uses a big flat pallette on
a
> table. I even have one of those portable easels with a handheld pallette,
> but I just lay it down on the drawer and use it just like it was sitting
on
> a table.
However...it is a bit impractical to pack/hike in a table and cart it in
the wild outdoors....so a handheld palette is the norm for plein air
painters. The clipped medium cups necessary as she said for
immediacy/convenience that on location painting demands.
I take a grocery store plastic bag and attach it to my easel....use paper
towels or rags to wipe my brushes and dispose of quickly into the
bag...keeping my brushes clean.
Larry
gwen_...@cybergal.com
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
> FYI, the local community college only allows acrylic painting in its
> studio. I used to see transfer students from that school who would take oil
> painting, and they had terrible troubles adjusting to the new medium. I'd
> rather see people start with oil painting, acrylic (IMHO) gives people a
> set of bad habits that are hard to break.
>
What exactly would you say these bad habits are?
I am interested in this because I still wonder what painting, given enough
skill, could not be painted in acrylic to look like oil, or in oil to look
like acrylic. I am not saying that either would be a useful or sensible
exercise as both media have their strengths, but I don't think that one
medium is superior to the other simply because it is older (or newer).
As an exercise I once painted a copy of an Old Master in acrylic, and I have
yet to find anybody who didn't think that it was an oil (glazes and all). I
haven't shown it to the keeper of the Queen's pictures yet! (obviously!)
--
Gwen Jones
There is almost nothing Welsh women have not done.
Jan Morris - The matter of Wales, E
A. B. Sieze
>As an exercise I once painted a copy of an Old Master in acrylic, and I have
>yet to find anybody who didn't think that it was an oil (glazes and all). I
>haven't shown it to the keeper of the Queen's pictures yet! (obviously!)
It's not an exercise for me, it's an essential. I have had to
write the medium used on the back of my canvas ever since I began
painting in both oils and acrylic because years later even
I can't tell what medium I originally used just by looking. I
use the same methodology regardless of the medium. Cheers, Abby.
A. B. Sieze
>However...it is a bit impractical to pack/hike in a table and cart it in
>the wild outdoors....so a handheld palette is the norm for plein air
>painters. The clipped medium cups necessary as she said for
>immediacy/convenience that on location painting demands.
Are you using a French Easel? If so you might like to hear how
I do it. I cut a piece of galvanized sheet metal to use as a
palette that fits flat inside of the easel box when closed.
When painting it fits across the open drawer on my easel so
that I don't have to hold it in my hands. I paint standing up
no matter whether studio or in the field so the palette on
the drawer works well for me. It might not be as good for
someone sitting down although I assume if sitting down the
easel would be lowered too. The nice thing about the sheet
metal is its ease of cleanup, much like the plate glass palette
I use in the studio. For holding brushes and rags and such
I cut out some back pockets from some old jeans and using
stiff wire hooks I hang these pockets on the sides of the
easel box. When packing away they fit flat on top of the
palette. I carry a shoulder bag inside of which I've stiffened
with a cardboard box in which I carry bulky items like large
jars of thinner, etc. My entire load when walking into a field
is easel in one hand, canvases in other, and shoulder bag
over a shoulder. If the site is sunny a second trip to retrieve
a large beach umbrella is made. All the best, Abby.
Philip Ayers
oil medium in a plastic bottle isn't very good advice unless you also
recommend that it -not- be stored there. If you use a small bottle for
distributing the oil medium, that's cool but if it's stored in plastic the
medium will thicken as the turps evaporate throught the plastic and the
medium "sets up". Plastic isn't impervious as glass is.
...and I've never had a problem dipping brushes directly into the
medium...guess it depends on how you work.
> my only innovation is to
>use a squeeze-bottle of medium instead of a cup. Maybe I'm weird, I started
>college as a chemistry major, and I was taught that you never put a
>contaminated instrument into clean chemistry.
Philip(never Phil)Ayers
http://www.mindspring.com/~p.ayers/
http://members.wbs.net/homepages/m/r/a/mrayers/Home.html
p.a...@mindspring.com.
gwen_...@cybergal.com
takes to dry?
--
Gwen Jones
There is almost nothing Welsh women have not done.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Larry Seiler
Those experienced in acrylics can really fly with the medium. I mean...I
can produce a smaller painterly realistic landscape in less than two
hours..throw it in a frame and drive that same day to a gallery for
delivery.
What is not seen in that equation is the years and years of learning.
An outsider looking in might connect the advantages to the medium....yet,
it took years and years for me to develop as an artist. Understanding of
color relationships, values, training the eye to see, etc;
Some instructors may feel that since oils dry so slow...that it gives the
more beginning artist/student time to sit and think, reflect...walk away
and ask questions. to look...and train to him/herself the understanding
that later would make using acrylics sensible.
Acrylics might be seen as entering an olympic event without proper
training...for it can require many things of an artist, though its
advantages appear to simplify things. For example....one just learning to
cross country ski goes to a local high school's fields with very small
hills.....and trys very slowly to learn some basics. Some go straight to
big hills and wooded trails where compounded risks are felt to bring quick
learning.
Yet...neither is ready to enter the Olympic Berkie marathon.
I learned oils first...then acrylics. The transition was not easy, because
we are used to having time to think. But...having some understanding of
painting down, the challenge is then switched to speed things up.
I am quick with acrylics now.....because I require less analytical time
with my work these days as years ago. The younger artist has less proven
works to justify confidence completely in the intuitive abilities to work
faster.
Just a thought.
Larry Seiler
> I do it. I cut a piece of galvanized sheet metal to use as a
> palette that fits flat inside of the easel box when closed.
thanks Abbey....it was quite easy to visualize this. The sheet metal
sounds like a good idea.
At the moment I am using a homemade easel and carry a small tool box for my
paints and brushes. I take an extra trip to the vehicle when finished for
my painting.
I'm looking at a number of prochade boxes...easels, etc; my eyes are
somewhat fixed on the El Greco hardwood French easel. Another I've seen
that much impressed me was one made in Montana...a small pochade with a
hardward underneath that attaches to any camera tripod. The top flips up
and contains a palette, and room in the lid to paint and carry out several
small paintings finished.
I could see the convenience of the sheet metal as you have described.
thanks...
Larry
http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
Charles Eicher
p.a...@mindspring.com (Philip Ayers) wrote:
> I agree with most things you've said in this thread. However....putting
> oil medium in a plastic bottle isn't very good advice unless you also
> recommend that it -not- be stored there. If you use a small bottle for
> distributing the oil medium, that's cool but if it's stored in plastic the
> medium will thicken as the turps evaporate throught the plastic and the
> medium "sets up". Plastic isn't impervious as glass is.
That is ridiculous. The squeeze bottles I use are certified for chemical
use and completely impervious to chemicals. Nothing can evaporate through
the bottle. In fact, the main reason I use these bottles is that the
opening is so small that virtually no evaporation can take place.
Charles Eicher
wrote:
> In article <76v078$7...@newsops.execpc.com>, lse...@execpc.com says...
>
> >However...it is a bit impractical to pack/hike in a table and cart it in
> >the wild outdoors....so a handheld palette is the norm for plein air
> >painters. The clipped medium cups necessary as she said for
> >immediacy/convenience that on location painting demands.
>
> Are you using a French Easel? If so you might like to hear how
> I do it. I cut a piece of galvanized sheet metal to use as a
> palette that fits flat inside of the easel box when closed.
> When painting it fits across the open drawer on my easel so
> that I don't have to hold it in my hands.
Yep, that's exactly what I do, my easel even came with a handheld masonite
pallette that fits over the drawer like a cover. I pull the drawer out and
set the pallete on top of that.
I paint standing up
> no matter whether studio or in the field so the palette on
> the drawer works well for me. It might not be as good for
> someone sitting down although I assume if sitting down the
> easel would be lowered too. The nice thing about the sheet
> metal is its ease of cleanup, much like the plate glass palette
> I use in the studio. For holding brushes and rags and such
> I cut out some back pockets from some old jeans and using
> stiff wire hooks I hang these pockets on the sides of the
> easel box. When packing away they fit flat on top of the
> palette. I carry a shoulder bag inside of which I've stiffened
> with a cardboard box in which I carry bulky items like large
> jars of thinner, etc. My entire load when walking into a field
> is easel in one hand, canvases in other, and shoulder bag
> over a shoulder. If the site is sunny a second trip to retrieve
> a large beach umbrella is made. All the best, Abby.
actually, the one essential accessory for plein-air painting, I have found,
is some strong insect repellent. For some reason, the places I paint are
full of bees and they love those bright colors.
Charles Eicher
> In article <ceicher-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
>
> > FYI, the local community college only allows acrylic painting in its
> > studio. I used to see transfer students from that school who would take oil
> > painting, and they had terrible troubles adjusting to the new medium. I'd
> > rather see people start with oil painting, acrylic (IMHO) gives people a
> > set of bad habits that are hard to break.
> >
> What exactly would you say these bad habits are?
from the student work I've seen, they tend to use acrylics in an
excessively flat manner, like they're painting a wall. There's little
variation in color or texture. But then, remember, these are painting
newbies, with only a semester or two at best.
I dunno, maybe its not the medium, it could be the school or the teachers.
A friend of mine (an MFA in printmaking) set up a life-drawing class at
that community-college, and was surprised when a senior administrator came
to visit the class because he heard that a nude woman was present. The
admin shut the class down, due to bogus issues of "sexual harassment." What
decent teacher would want to bother with a school like this?
Degas5
I only say that your method of picking up medium sounds awkward, since the
original inquiry was an "absolute beginner" and I wouldn't be concerned about
picking up a little bit of color with my medium if I were teaching a beginning
painting class. I think we all develop our own way of doing things and you
explained yours and indeed it does seem like a good method, but methodical and
don't think it would feel natural to me at the easel. As for a palette, I sell
many, many hand held palettes. The most often asked for palette paper is the
one with the thumb hole in it by Biefengang and so know that others do hold
their palette. It becomes so natural that you don't even know you're holding
it. This way you can mix your color from wherever you're standing. It feels
more immediate for me. I sometimes leave my palette on my taboret if just
laying in large areas of color, usually at the beginning stages. Anyways, I
don't want to overstate my personal preferences, nor do I recommend them to a
beginning artist, since I didn't hold my palette as a young artist. Bonnir
Donald A Jusko
> Here's one other trick I learned I'd recommend everyone adapt. I don't
> clean my brushes with turps, because turps dries the hairs of the brush
> out, makes them brittle, and break off....making brights flats....and
> flats...stubs. I use kerosene, for it has more petroleum in it that coats
> the hairs of the brush and is kinder to the brush. It acts as a solvent
> and still removes the pigment, but coats the brush. I took a small
> mushroom can emptied and cleaned, punched holes in the bottom of it and put
> it upside down in a bigger soup can for which it just fit, and to this
> added the kerosene. I have just a sandwich baggie over the top with a
> rubber band.....and it keeps much longer than turps.
>
> hope that helps...!
Larry are you an ol' time sign painter? That's one of their best kept
secrets. Then they wrap the brush in newspaper to store it and keep the
shape. Be sure to remove the kerosene with turps before you paint with
it again. The sign painters I knew didn't bother, but a sign doesn't
have to last a lifetime.
Aloha from Maui,
Don Jusko
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Shmmoopie
it depends on what medium your using.For instance I use Liquin(or Alkyd flow
medium,same thing) usually the bottle will tell you as in the case of Liquin
how it is to be used.I can use it to make transparent glazes,or washes of color
on top of already existing painting,by adding a drop of color(paint)to a small
cupof liquin ,and mixing it togethe(the more trasparent I want it the more
liquin I add,or less pigment(paint)..Or I can use it also by just mixing a dab
of it to my paints before dipping my brush into them.Inthe case of Liquin(or
alkyd) it speeds the drying time and it will dry overniteYou only need a tiny
bit of liquin in this case..There are also mediums that will delay the drying
time and I would think you would add it to your paint it much the same way.I
hope I helped a little,I like to see new painters discovering
art.Congratulations.Oh,and there's this magazine which is very helpful to the
adverage artist,called"Atist's"magazine, you might want to check that out.
Shmmoopie
gwen_...@cybergal.com
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) wrote:
>
> from the student work I've seen, they tend to use acrylics in an
> excessively flat manner, like they're painting a wall. There's little
> variation in color or texture. But then, remember, these are painting
> newbies, with only a semester or two at best.
> I dunno, maybe its not the medium, it could be the school or the teachers.
> A friend of mine (an MFA in printmaking) set up a life-drawing class at
> that community-college, and was surprised when a senior administrator came
> to visit the class because he heard that a nude woman was present. The
> admin shut the class down, due to bogus issues of "sexual harassment." What
> decent teacher would want to bother with a school like this?
>
worthy of the care of young minds!
Larry Seiler
> secrets. Then they wrap the brush in newspaper to store it and keep the
> shape. Be sure to remove the kerosene with turps before you paint with
> it again. The sign painters I knew didn't bother, but a sign doesn't
> have to last a lifetime.
>
> Aloha from Maui,
> Don Jusko
Oh.....yup. In fact. After I have the pigment cleaned from the brushes
with kerosene...I finish the day cleaning the brush with a mild detergent,
perhaps hair shampoo.
Another recommendation that is simple but some do not consider, is never
use "hot" water to clean your brushes. The hairs of the brush are held by
a glue in the metal ferrel....which are loosened over time with hot water.
peace.....
(heh...one more day...the server surprises me!)
Larry
A. B. Sieze
>actually, the one essential accessory for plein-air painting, I have found,
>is some strong insect repellent. For some reason, the places I paint are
>full of bees and they love those bright colors.
AMEN to that! As a long-time bicycler (cross-country touring etc) I
learned that my bright reds and yellows are particularly 'exciting'
to the flying stingers. And to hummingbirds as well, I might add.
Very luckily, I live in a part of the country where flying biters
are in the minority even in the hottest of months. The worst thing
we have to put up with here (SW New Mexico high mountains) are
biting flies -- horse and deer flies. Best repellent I've found
is the CUTTERS brand. Cheers, Abby.
A. B. Sieze
>So, what do you find tempts you to paint in oil? Is it mainly the time it
>takes to dry?
I began my painting adventures by learning to paint in oils.
It was sometime later -- like several years -- before I began
experimenting with acrylics. I found oils much easier to master
initially -- probably because of their slower drying times.
I had much more difficulty mastering the acrylics -- took a
lot more experimentation and also back in 'those days' there
were not the HOW TO books available for acrylics because they
hadn't been around that long.
But to answer your question in terms of WHY today I make the
choices between mediums, it's purely an aesthetic choice for
me. I can do some things better with oils than I can with
acrylics. If scumbling is involved for a dominant effect, I
prefer oils. I often work oils OVER acrylics, but NEVER vice
versa. And I paint in a variety of mediums besides oil and
acrylic. As a teacher who must teach to beginners using all
of the various options available today, it behooves me to have
first-hand experience. Cheers, Abby.
A. B. Sieze
>
>I agree with most things you've said in this thread. However....putting
>oil medium in a plastic bottle isn't very good advice unless you also
>recommend that it -not- be stored there.
I also use a plastic squeeze bottle for my medium storage.
It will indeed set up if left for long periods of time
without use. But I use it fast enough that this is not a
problem. The stand oil that I buy comes in plastic and
I've got some that is 'years' old and hasn't gelled yet.
Anyone foolish enough to add driers like cobalt or Liquin
to their medium in a plastic squeeze bottle will find it
sets up even faster. But the convenience of being able
to squeeze it out one drop at a time outweighs the
negatives. I use those 'ketchup' style bottles. Abby.
Tom Hart
From: Charles Eicher, cei...@inav.net
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:41:23 -0600
In article <ceicher-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>
Charles Eicher, cei...@inav.net writes:
>actually, the one essential accessory for plein-air painting, I have
found,
>is some strong insect repellent. For some reason, the places I paint are
>full of bees and they love those bright colors.
Speaking of accessories for outdoor painting, I've been wondering
recently if I should invest in a shade umbrella. (I've been looking at
photos of J. S. Sargent at work and he seemed to use one often. That's a
pretty potent endorsement, in my book.) Some supply companies offer an
umbrella that allegedly attaches to a French easel. Anyone have
experience with those? (Or other suggestions/comments?)
Tom
A. B. Sieze
>Some supply companies offer an
>umbrella that allegedly attaches to a French easel. Anyone have
>experience with those? (Or other suggestions/comments?)
I use a large umbrella sold as a 'beach umbrella.' In order
to have it shade me and be adjustable as the sun moves and
I don't want to, I use a piece of pipe into which I insert
the umbrella handle. The pipe is schedule 80 plastic stuff.
Stiff but not heavy. The pipe allows me to adjust the height
of the umbrella since I stand up to paint. It also allows me
to adjust the angle. I use a 'hose clamp' -- the kind that
has a thumb screw instead of a screwdriver slot -- to hold
the umbrella in place inside of the pipe sleeve. I then
anchor the umbrella using a three point system of cords
that go to light-weight stakes I drive into the ground.
I would NOT want the umbrella attached to my easel unless
I was assured it was going to be a perfectly calm day. My
system allows the umbrella to move if a strong gust comes
along without damaging the umbrella. If a really strong
gust comes along, the umbrella has sometimes been lifted
out of the pipe sleeve but it so far it hasn't resulted in
any damage to it. Good Luck, Abby.