future art movements? ideas?
brigit bardot brigade
surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
do you have any other ideas for art movements?
how about these?
painism. artist must hurt himself really badly before starting on his
work. like a painter in pain. he takes a hammer and smashes his toe
and then starts the brushwork. or a writer pulls out his tooth and
starts writing. a sculptor asks a woman to knee him the groin before
he takes up the hammer and chisel. the advantage? well, we think of
artists as too aloof and theortical. this ought to bring back that
zing.
forgetism. here the artist pretends to remember nothing about his
life and himself before he gets to work. he's only allowed to create
something entirely unfamiliar and can't rely on memory AT ALL.
mooreism. an artist creates a work with the goal of sending it to
michael moore and pissing him off. for example, a writer would have
to write alot of fat jokes. or a painter might draw moore and then
smear it with elephant dung.
bitchslapism. here, the artist hires another artist and then abuses,
insults, and bitchslaps him and makes him create something from that
experience. this is a dual project.
stupidism. make sure that the work of art is TOTALLY,ABSOLUTELY, 100%
stupid.
cackleism. the artist creates a work that is mostly likely to make
the reader, viewer, or listener cackle.
guffawism. similar concept.
hemrrhoidism. similar concept.
any other cool ideas for art movements?
NightMist
brigade) wrote:
>we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
>surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
>atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
>
(snippity do dah)
>
>any other cool ideas for art movements?
I have at times considered founding a movement called "ism". Wherein
the adherents created whatever the hell they wanted to create with
whatever media they wanted to use, and didn't worry about what anybody
else wanted to call it or classify it as.
I have however been informed that that movement is as old as rubbing
ochre on rocks and beating logs with sticks.
Barbara
--
"It's such a gamble when you get a face"
- Richard Hell
Electric Nachos
Where art is produced with a gotdamn purpose. And why not gotdamnism - art
that is damned if you get it - damned if you don't. ABSTRACT ART should be
renamed to Suggestivism - and orgasms just shouldn't be discussed at all!
brigit bardot brigade wrote in message
<3cd79f7a.04072...@posting.google.com>...
Tony Whitaker
news:3cd79f7a.04072...@posting.google.com...
> we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
> surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
> atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
>
> do you have any other ideas for art movements?
Sexism - the art of depicting hot babes wearing little or no clothing and
assuming erotic or even overtly sexual positions.
A pioneer in this new movement is the cable television program called "The
Man Show". Perhaps the finest example of sexist art is embodied by "The Man
Show's" "Girls on Trampolines" work.
I predict that this new art form will be very long-lived, and people far
into the foreseeable future will be appreciating it.
G*rd*n
> >we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
> >surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
> >atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
> >
> (snippity do dah)
> >
> >any other cool ideas for art movements?
nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
> I have at times considered founding a movement called "ism". Wherein
> the adherents created whatever the hell they wanted to create with
> whatever media they wanted to use, and didn't worry about what anybody
> else wanted to call it or classify it as.
> ...
That wouldn't be an _ism_, though. I suggest Ismism, whose
adherents concentrate on issuing manifestos about what art
is or ought to be, and assiduously avoid doing anything
else, especially works of art. But I think maybe it's been
done.
--
(<><>) /*/
}"{ G*rd*n }"{ g...@panix.com }"{
{ http://www.etaoin.com | latest new material 5/10/04 <-adv't
Dan Clore
> brigit...@hotmail.com (brigit bardot brigade) wrote:
>
>>>we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
>>>surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
>>>atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
>>>
>>(snippity do dah)
>>
>>>any other cool ideas for art movements?
>
> nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
>
>>I have at times considered founding a movement called "ism". Wherein
>>the adherents created whatever the hell they wanted to create with
>>whatever media they wanted to use, and didn't worry about what anybody
>>else wanted to call it or classify it as.
> That wouldn't be an _ism_, though. I suggest Ismism, whose
> adherents concentrate on issuing manifestos about what art
> is or ought to be, and assiduously avoid doing anything
> else, especially works of art. But I think maybe it's been
> done.
I'm dedicated to eradicating opposition to your ideas. I
propound Anti-Ismismism
--
Dan Clore
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
"It's a political statement -- or, rather, an
*anti*-political statement. The symbol for *anarchy*!"
-- Batman, explaining the circle-A graffiti, in
_Detective Comics_ #608
G*rd*n
> >
> >>>we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
> >>>surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
> >>>atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
> >>>
> >>(snippity do dah)
> >>
> >>>any other cool ideas for art movements?
nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
> >>I have at times considered founding a movement called "ism". Wherein
> >>the adherents created whatever the hell they wanted to create with
> >>whatever media they wanted to use, and didn't worry about what anybody
> >>else wanted to call it or classify it as.
G*rd*n:
> > That wouldn't be an _ism_, though. I suggest Ismism, whose
> > adherents concentrate on issuing manifestos about what art
> > is or ought to be, and assiduously avoid doing anything
> > else, especially works of art. But I think maybe it's been
> > done.
> I'm dedicated to eradicating opposition to your ideas. I
> propound Anti-Ismismism
That would be antiantiismismism. It's got a nice rhythm,
and could be chanted at political and sports events.
Mike Williams
"Dan Clore" <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote in message
news:2mf2upF...@uni-berlin.de...
> G*rd*n wrote:
>> brigit...@hotmail.com (brigit bardot brigade) wrote:
>>
>>>>we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
>>>>surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
>>>>atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
>>>>
>>>(snippity do dah)
>>>
>>>>any other cool ideas for art movements?
>>
>> nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
>>
>>>I have at times considered founding a movement called "ism". Wherein
>>>the adherents created whatever the hell they wanted to create with
>>>whatever media they wanted to use, and didn't worry about what anybody
>>>else wanted to call it or classify it as.
>
>> That wouldn't be an _ism_, though. I suggest Ismism, whose
>> adherents concentrate on issuing manifestos about what art
>> is or ought to be, and assiduously avoid doing anything
>> else, especially works of art. But I think maybe it's been
>> done.
>
> I'm dedicated to eradicating opposition to your ideas. I propound
> Anti-Ismismism
I think that's just pessimism or nihilism. What about prism and schism?
Dr.Matt
Actually, it's more like nihilihilism.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
"Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria."
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Mike Williams
"Dr.Matt" <fie...@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:xfuMc.145$%c1....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> In article <5euMc.381$PO.1...@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>,
> Mike Williams <mi...@Nospam.nospamever.org> wrote:
>>
done.
>>>
>>> I'm dedicated to eradicating opposition to your ideas. I propound
>>> Anti-Ismismism
>>
>>I think that's just pessimism or nihilism. What about prism and schism?
>
> Actually, it's more like nihilihilism.
>
This tendency to make up new words smacks of willinillism, a trend that I
would decry as a necessary target of floccinaucinihilipilificationism.
Jerry Kohl
You are Marcello Penso AICMFP ;-)
--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
brigit bardot brigade
> brigit...@hotmail.com (brigit bardot brigade) wrote:
> > >we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
> > >surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
> > >atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
> > >
> (snippity do dah)
> > >
> > >any other cool ideas for art movements?
>
> nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
> > I have at times considered founding a movement called "ism". Wherein
> > the adherents created whatever the hell they wanted to create with
> > whatever media they wanted to use, and didn't worry about what anybody
> > else wanted to call it or classify it as.
> > ...
>
>
> That wouldn't be an _ism_, though. I suggest Ismism, whose
> adherents concentrate on issuing manifestos about what art
> is or ought to be, and assiduously avoid doing anything
> else, especially works of art. But I think maybe it's been
> done.
it prefer itism. it says 'what is is, therefore it is'. so whatever
you create is it and it is it which is what it is.
brigit bardot brigade
> > >we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
> > >surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
> > >atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
> > >
> (snippity do dah)
> > >
> > >any other cool ideas for art movements?
>
> nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
> > I have at times considered founding a movement called "ism". Wherein
> > the adherents created whatever the hell they wanted to create with
> > whatever media they wanted to use, and didn't worry about what anybody
> > else wanted to call it or classify it as.
> > ...
>
>
> That wouldn't be an _ism_, though. I suggest Ismism, whose
> adherents concentrate on issuing manifestos about what art
> is or ought to be, and assiduously avoid doing anything
> else, especially works of art. But I think maybe it's been
> done.
soon to be wasism.
dobe...@dropsocal.rr.com
>This tendency to make up new words smacks of willinillism, a trend that I
>would decry as a necessary target of floccinaucinihilipilificationism.
The only place I've ever seen that word in print is in (of all places)
John Simon's "Paradigms Lost."
Apparently, it's in the OED also?
G*rd*n
Peter T. Daniels
One would hope that all the words in Shakespeare are in the OED! (NB the
suffix -ism is Mr. Williams's contribution.)
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Mani Deli
brigade) wrote:
>soon to be wasism.
Today's ism is tomorrow's wasm.
The major ism of the 20th century was Bullshitism.
No skill no art!
Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
ynotssor
news:bol5g05gbqpnska7b...@4ax.com
>> soon to be wasism.
>
> Today's ism is tomorrow's wasm.
>
> The major ism of the 20th century was Bullshitism.
Looks like it's off to a running start in the 21st too.
--
use hotmail for email replies
Mike Williams
"Jerry Kohl" <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:410292F4...@comcast.net...
> You are Marcello Penso AICMFP ;-)
Nope.
Mike Williams
<dobe...@DROPsocal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mna5g0pb3a5dqctjk...@4ax.com...
Its ismless form has been in the Guiness Book of Records for some time -
well it was the last time I paid ny attention to it, sometime in the 70s.
Mike Williams
"brigit bardot brigade" <brigit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3cd79f7a.04072...@posting.google.com...
>
> it prefer itism. it says 'what is is, therefore it is'. so whatever
> you create is it and it is it which is what it is.
Or as they refer to it in the Spanish-speaking world, "el itism".
dobe...@dropsocal.rr.com
>> >This tendency to make up new words smacks of willinillism, a trend that I
>> >would decry as a necessary target of floccinaucinihilipilificationism.
>>
>> The only place I've ever seen that word in print is in (of all places)
>> John Simon's "Paradigms Lost."
>>
>> Apparently, it's in the OED also?
>
>One would hope that all the words in Shakespeare are in the OED!
I would imagine that's true, although the Shakespearean word you're
thinking of is honorificabilitudinitatibus -- from Act V of "Love's
Labor's Lost."
Dr.Matt
Hm, I lost 5 pounds working out heavily over the last few months,
you must have 'em!
Blue
Dumbassism, yes "Dumbassism", the art of going to school and
learning a profession and not performing it in a correct manner.
Peter T. Daniels
I believe I encountered the word in a Guinness Book ca. 1965 and it
attributed it to Shakespeare.
Mani Deli
my view of 20th century isms and those still with us.. These are all
subsets of the major popular 20th century ism, BULLSHITISM
Modern Academic Art comprises those Artworks which are fashionably
praised as masterpieces but range between third rate and ridiculous on
a technical level. It comprises about 95% of the stuff that presently
hangs in the modern sections of museums. I mention some top examples,
a few masters and the ism they inhabit.
no skill realism:
-its greatest exponent is of course Matisse. Also, Picasso's
portraits, Bonnard, Cezanne, Marin, Rivers, Hockney, Katz, and
Expressionist schmierers.
Abstractified hack realism:
starting with cubism, Morandi, de Kooning, Picasso, Matisse, Leger
Cartoonism-Critically glorified second rate cartoons:
Guernica and Picasso's attempts at drawing are the best examples..
Stripism-Striped textile design and horse blankets not showing enough
skill to match a patch quilt:
Mondrian, Newman, Rothko
Kindergartenism:
Kandinski, Albers, Twombley, Diebenkorn, Still
Childishism . Creative senility posing as childishness with
philosophical Importance:
Matisse, Guston, Twombley, Johns
Champanzeeism. Talented chimpanzee competition
Most Abstract expressionism, Kline, Pollock, de Kooning.
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
news:410398...@worldnet.att.net...
If true, it only goes to show that you can't believe you read while
drinking.
'The first recorded use is by William Shenstone in a letter in 1741: "I
loved him for nothing so much as his flocci-nauci-nihili-pili-fication of
money".'
(Source: http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-flo2.htm )
There's lots more there about this humourous coinage, including this:
'The word's main function is to be trotted out as an example of a long word
(it was the longest in the first edition of the Oxford English Dictionary
but was supplanted by pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis in the
second). It had a rare public airing in 1999 when Senator Jesse Helms used
it in commenting on the demise of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty: "I note
your distress at my floccinaucinihilipilification of the CTBT".'
--
Frank in Seattle
___________
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Michael Haslam
>
> Hm, I lost 5 pounds working out heavily over the last few months,
> you must have 'em!
What's there to work out about heavily, Matt? It just means in a heavy
manner. HTH.
MJHaslam
Jerry Kohl
> To the Ism-ites, those who spend their lives detecting isms, I offer
> my view of 20th century isms and those still with us.. These are all
> subsets of the major popular 20th century ism, BULLSHITISM
> [snip]
>
> No skill no art!
I think you forgot two important categories:
Kitschism. Sentimentality aplenty but no statement
Walt Disney of course tops the list, but Maxfield
Parrish, Walter Keane, and Bessie Pease Gutmann
are other examples
Sentimental Socialism. All statement, no taste.
George Tooker, Paul Cadmus, R. Crumb
Commercialism. Title says it all.
Joseph Christian Leyendecker, Norman Rockwell, Walt Disney
(again), Al Hirschfield, Vargas
Techniqueism. All dressed up and nowhere to go.
Richard Estes, Salvador Dalí, Duane Hanson, John De Andrea
Gareth Williams
> Mani Deli wrote:
>
>> To the Ism-ites, those who spend their lives detecting isms, I offer
>> my view of 20th century isms and those still with us.. These are all
>> subsets of the major popular 20th century ism, BULLSHITISM
>
>> [snip]
>>
>> No skill no art!
>
> I think you forgot two important categories:
<snip>
There is a 3rd, of course, namely "Jism", as perfected by Gilbert & George.
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Dr.Matt
Mani Deli <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>To the Ism-ites, those who spend their lives detecting isms, I offer
>my view of 20th century isms and those still with us.. These are all
>subsets of the major popular 20th century ism, BULLSHITISM
>
>Modern Academic Art comprises those Artworks which are fashionably
>praised as masterpieces but range between third rate and ridiculous on
>a technical level. It comprises about 95% of the stuff that presently
>hangs in the modern sections of museums. I mention some top examples,
>a few masters and the ism they inhabit.
Ah, so this obviously refers to all painters since Raphael, and
all musicians since Machaut.
> no skill realism:
>-its greatest exponent is of course Matisse. Also, Picasso's
>portraits, Bonnard, Cezanne, Marin, Rivers, Hockney, Katz, and
>Expressionist schmierers.
>
>Abstractified hack realism:
>starting with cubism, Morandi, de Kooning, Picasso, Matisse, Leger
>
>Cartoonism-Critically glorified second rate cartoons:
>Guernica and Picasso's attempts at drawing are the best examples..
>
>Stripism-Striped textile design and horse blankets not showing enough
>skill to match a patch quilt:
>Mondrian, Newman, Rothko
>
>Kindergartenism:
>Kandinski, Albers, Twombley, Diebenkorn, Still
>
>Childishism . Creative senility posing as childishness with
>philosophical Importance:
>Matisse, Guston, Twombley, Johns
>
>Champanzeeism. Talented chimpanzee competition
>Most Abstract expressionism, Kline, Pollock, de Kooning.
>
>
>
>No skill no art!
>
>Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
You're a laugh a minute. Unfortunately, you forgot your smileys,
so we're laughing at you, not with you.
brigit bardot brigade
what is they are skillfully unskilled?
Ray
If you can hang it on a wall it is art. If you can walk around it, it is
sculpture. That's all I need to know
regards
Ray
Dr.Matt
Yes, exactly. The resistance I use these days is pneumatic, not weight.
Dr.Matt
Dali is sorta a funny one on this list, as his art is clearly
going places, its just that nobody quite knows where. Warhol
maybe.
herothatdied
able to find and it's been driving me out of my skull. It's a Canadian WWII
movie about a submarine full of Nazis who wreck on the Canadian coast and
then they have to find their way across Canada and they run into all kinds
of Representative Canadians (except the French). One stop is with a guy
camping in the woods who brought his butler, his Picasso and his Matisse
with him. The nazis capture the fellow, destroy the art (I forget what they
did with the butler - probably captured him too) and are on their way out
when the guy breaks free, catches one of the nazis and pummels him saying
"this is for the Picasso! And this is for the Matisse!" Does anybody know
this movie?
Oh, and Mani - you left out Klimt. If you're going to have a list of
geniuses to rail against, you should include Klimt. - htd
Jerry Kohl
> In article <4103F072...@comcast.net>,
> Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >Mani Deli wrote:
> >
> >> To the Ism-ites, those who spend their lives detecting isms, I offer
> >> my view of 20th century isms and those still with us.. These are all
> >> subsets of the major popular 20th century ism, BULLSHITISM
> >
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> No skill no art!
> >
> >I think you forgot two important categories:
> >
> >Kitschism. Sentimentality aplenty but no statement
> >Walt Disney of course tops the list, but Maxfield
> >Parrish, Walter Keane, and Bessie Pease Gutmann
> >are other examples
> >
> >Sentimental Socialism. All statement, no taste.
> >George Tooker, Paul Cadmus, R. Crumb
> >
> >Commercialism. Title says it all.
> >Joseph Christian Leyendecker, Norman Rockwell, Walt Disney
> >(again), Al Hirschfield, Vargas
> >
> >Techniqueism. All dressed up and nowhere to go.
> >Richard Estes, Salvador Dalí, Duane Hanson, John De Andrea
>
> Dali is sorta a funny one on this list, as his art is clearly
> going places, its just that nobody quite knows where. Warhol
> maybe.
Check the troll's website, where there is a list of favorite artists ...
Daniel Kolle
brigade) thought hard and said:
>we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
>surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
>atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
>
>do you have any other ideas for art movements?
>
>how about these?
>
>painism. artist must hurt himself really badly before starting on his
>work. like a painter in pain. he takes a hammer and smashes his toe
>and then starts the brushwork. or a writer pulls out his tooth and
>starts writing. a sculptor asks a woman to knee him the groin before
>he takes up the hammer and chisel. the advantage? well, we think of
>artists as too aloof and theortical. this ought to bring back that
>zing.
>
>mooreism. an artist creates a work with the goal of sending it to
>michael moore and pissing him off. for example, a writer would have
>to write alot of fat jokes. or a painter might draw moore and then
>smear it with elephant dung.
How about combining these two. I call it stupidtrollingfuckwitism.
What you do is, a writer or a painter or a musician will kill you and
then describe it using their respective art.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
Peter T. Daniels
> 'The word's main function is to be trotted out as an example of a long word
> (it was the longest in the first edition of the Oxford English Dictionary
> but was supplanted by pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis in the
> second).
Which is the longest word in the Merriam-Webster Third International
(1961).
But the rules for nomenclature of chemical compounds now mean that in
English, as always in German, there can no longer be a "longest word."
dobe...@dropsocal.rr.com
>Which is the longest word in the Merriam-Webster Third International
>(1961).
Peter, I'd have expected you to have the 1934 Second instead of the
1961 Third.
Mani Deli
>Mani,
>
>If you can hang it on a wall it is art. If you can walk around it, it is
>sculpture. That's all I need to know
If you like to call art fine, but it doesn't mean that all "art" is
any good.
>
>regards
>
>Ray
Mani Deli
>Check the troll's website, where there is a list of favorite artists ...
Yes do!
And where's your web site?
Mani Deli
wrote:
>Mani Deli wrote:
>
>> To the Ism-ites, those who spend their lives detecting isms, I offer
>> my view of 20th century isms and those still with us.. These are all
>> subsets of the major popular 20th century ism, BULLSHITISM
>
>> [snip]
>>
>> No skill no art!
>
>I think you forgot two important categories:
>
>Kitschism. Sentimentality aplenty but no statement
>Walt Disney
I suppose he's so popular for other reasons. Perhaps you can tell us
why.
> of course tops the list, but Maxfield
>Parrish, Walter Keane, and Bessie Pease Gutmann
>are other examples
>
>Sentimental Socialism. All statement, no taste.
>George Tooker, Paul Cadmus, R. Crumb
Which is the opposite oF Modern Academic decoration containing no
statement, no skill, no technique and a huge volume of gas to claim
its really art.
>Commercialism. Title says it all.
>Joseph Christian Leyendecker, Norman Rockwell, Walt Disney
>(again), Al Hirschfield, Vargas
Most all artwork is commercial.
>Techniqueism. All dressed up and nowhere to go.
>Richard Estes, Salvador Dalí, Duane Hanson, John De Andrea
No-Techniqueism- That which constitutes most of the modern carp
allowed into museums.
Mani Deli
<heroth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Oh, and Mani - you left out Klimt. If you're going to have a list of
>geniuses to rail against, you should include Klimt. - htd
>
Klimpt can draw
Jerry Kohl
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 17:40:09 GMT, Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Mani Deli wrote:
> >
> >> To the Ism-ites, those who spend their lives detecting isms, I offer
> >> my view of 20th century isms and those still with us.. These are all
> >> subsets of the major popular 20th century ism, BULLSHITISM
> >
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> No skill no art!
> >
> >I think you forgot two important categories:
> >
> >Kitschism. Sentimentality aplenty but no statement
> >Walt Disney
>
> I suppose he's so popular for other reasons. Perhaps you can tell us
> why.
If you care to confuse popularity with artistic statement, I suppose I
can't stop you, but you had better get used to the sound of snickering
behind your back.
> > of course tops the list, but Maxfield
> >Parrish, Walter Keane, and Bessie Pease Gutmann
> >are other examples
> >
> >Sentimental Socialism. All statement, no taste.
> >George Tooker, Paul Cadmus, R. Crumb
>
> Which is the opposite oF Modern Academic decoration containing no
> statement, no skill, no technique and a huge volume of gas to claim
> its really art.
I wouldn't know--I've never paid much attention to "Modern Academic
decoration". Whatever that might be--I suppose public art on American
University campuses?
> >Commercialism. Title says it all.
> >Joseph Christian Leyendecker, Norman Rockwell, Walt Disney
> >(again), Al Hirschfield, Vargas
>
> Most all artwork is commercial.
Perhaps. Some places commercial appeal higher on the totem pole
than others.
> >Techniqueism. All dressed up and nowhere to go.
> >Richard Estes, Salvador DalĂ?, Duane Hanson, John De Andrea
>
> No-Techniqueism- That which constitutes most of the modern carp
> allowed into museums.
Ah! Another meaningless phrase. What about Neo-Philistinism?
> No skill no art!
Yes. Slogans like that. Precisely.
Jerry Kohl
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:37:40 GMT, "herothatdied"
> <heroth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Oh, and Mani - you left out Klimt. If you're going to have a list of
> >geniuses to rail against, you should include Klimt. - htd
> >
>
> Klimpt can draw
Klim(p)t hasn't even drawn breath since 1918, but he certainly was
able to draw beautifully before then.
> No skill no art!
But of course skill at drawing is not necessarily all that matters.
What specific skills do you regard as essential to an artist?
Peter T. Daniels
I do, of course. Why "instead"? (Haven't found an affordable copy of the
First.)
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis isn't in it, so why would
it be relevant?
nemo
nemo
Line of people outside the Tate Modern waiting to see Tracy Emmen's latest
offering, an untidy broom:
Queue Besom.
NightMist
<mi...@Nospam.nospamever.org> wrote:
>
>"Dr.Matt" <fie...@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
>news:xfuMc.145$%c1....@news.itd.umich.edu...
>> In article <5euMc.381$PO.1...@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>,
>> Mike Williams <mi...@Nospam.nospamever.org> wrote:
>>>
> done.
>>>>
>>>> I'm dedicated to eradicating opposition to your ideas. I propound
>>>> Anti-Ismismism
>>>
>>>I think that's just pessimism or nihilism. What about prism and schism?
>>
>> Actually, it's more like nihilihilism.
>>
>
>This tendency to make up new words smacks of willinillism, a trend that I
>would decry as a necessary target of floccinaucinihilipilificationism.
>
>
Nay.
Willinillism is practised frequently by gallery owners, publishers,
studios, A&R guys etc. It is a result of their fundamental
floccinaucinihilipilificationism, and thus they engage in willinillism
as part of their day to day practice of excelsiorism.
All is sorrow sayeth the fat one.
Barbara
--
"It's such a gamble when you get a face"
- Richard Hell
Frederick Shorts
Mebbe when youz finish yer painting by numbers course and connecting the dots
youz will also have enough skill to produce no art. Then youz will be another
famous nobody.
--
Freddie D. 'fag' Shorts
I'm loud and I'm proud. I'm gay and I like it that way!
Another proud buttplug owner. Honk if yer horny!
I support Gay Pride! The Ramrod rocks! Kerry sux!
Wanna hire me for web site development? I'm way under-employed!
Contact me by email (mailto:cyphe...@nyc.rr.com) or mail me at
FS Newssite Inc.
101 West 23rd St. Suite 2237, New York, NY, 10011
On second thoughts, don't bother. Just sign me up for subscriptions.
I like to steal copyrighted material.
Check out my current web sites -
http://www.orwellian.org
http://www.miscstuff.org
http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/
I'm really proud of this -
http://Frederick.Shorts.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/worldrecord.php
http://www.plugger.info
http://www.pluggers.com/daily/
Hay! My kinda place - http://www.gaylordhotels.com/
Dr.Matt
LOL your web site is a hoot -- especially the bit where you use
the word "skepticism".
Dr.Matt
Who was it that said the long one was from Shakespeare? I'd always heard
that it was from Potter, who wrote of Peter Rabbit bemoaning his
sister's floppsymoppsiancottontailism.
Mike Williams
"Dr.Matt" <fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:w78Nc.206$%c1....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> In article <4104f94a...@news.madbbs.com>,
> NightMist <nigh...@uir.zzn.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 02:13:51 +1000, "Mike Williams"
>><mi...@Nospam.nospamever.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Dr.Matt" <fie...@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
>>>news:xfuMc.145$%c1....@news.itd.umich.edu...
>>>> In article <5euMc.381$PO.1...@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>,
>>>> Mike Williams <mi...@Nospam.nospamever.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>> done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm dedicated to eradicating opposition to your ideas. I propound
>>>>>> Anti-Ismismism
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that's just pessimism or nihilism. What about prism and schism?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, it's more like nihilihilism.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This tendency to make up new words smacks of willinillism, a trend that I
>>>would decry as a necessary target of floccinaucinihilipilificationism.
>>>
>>>
>>Nay.
>>
>>Willinillism is practised frequently by gallery owners, publishers,
>>studios, A&R guys etc. It is a result of their fundamental
>>floccinaucinihilipilificationism, and thus they engage in willinillism
>>as part of their day to day practice of excelsiorism.
>>
>>All is sorrow sayeth the fat one.
>>
>>Barbara
>
> that it was from Potter, who wrote of Peter Rabbit bemoaning his
> sister's floppsymoppsiancottontailism.
Not Hammerstein lyrically narrating a certain novice's
flibbertigibbetiwillothewispism?
Dr.Matt
Alas, poor Mani cannot punctuate.
Cezanne and Picasso both made photorealistic artwork -- in school,
the selfsame academy that you decry.
michael
herothatdied wrote:
> OK, this post reminds me of this movie I saw ages ago that I haven't been
> able to find and it's been driving me out of my skull. It's a Canadian WWII
> movie about a submarine full of Nazis who wreck on the Canadian coast and
> then they have to find their way across Canada and they run into all kinds
> of Representative Canadians (except the French). One stop is with a guy
> camping in the woods who brought his butler, his Picasso and his Matisse
> with him. The nazis capture the fellow, destroy the art (I forget what they
> did with the butler - probably captured him too) and are on their way out
> when the guy breaks free, catches one of the nazis and pummels him saying
> "this is for the Picasso! And this is for the Matisse!" Does anybody know
> this movie?
isn't it a gem? the film would be *49th parallel* and the
aesthete-in-the-rockies leslie howard (in what may be his greatest
role)... the film is actually british, not canadian...
michael
Mani Deli
(Dr.Matt) wrote:
>In article <1ov8g05mrpj7moeij...@4ax.com>,
>Mani Deli <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Klimpt can draw
>>
>>No skill no art!
>
>Alas, poor Mani cannot punctuate.
That's the sort of stuff padantic jerks here note when they have
nothing to say.
>Cezanne and Picasso both made photorealistic artwork -- in school,
>the selfsame academy that you decry.
If that crap looks photorealistic to you I would say you have an eye
problem.
Dr.Matt
Mani Deli <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:56:45 GMT, fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu
>(Dr.Matt) wrote:
>
>>In article <1ov8g05mrpj7moeij...@4ax.com>,
>>Mani Deli <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Klimpt can draw
>>>
>>>No skill no art!
>>
>>Alas, poor Mani cannot punctuate.
>
>That's the sort of stuff padantic jerks here note when they have
>nothing to say.
Thank you for making my point for me, oh published author.
>>Cezanne and Picasso both made photorealistic artwork -- in school,
>>the selfsame academy that you decry.
>
>If that crap looks photorealistic to you I would say you have an eye
>problem.
And poor Mani doesn't understand the difference between studies performed
in art school and concious choices made afterwards.
>No skill no art!
And poor Mani STILL needs an editor.
>Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
So where's YOUR artwork? Oh, wait, I'm sorry, your book is your artwork.
Fair is fair:
No mastery of punctuation, no worthyness of my perusal.
Mani Deli
wrote:
>> Klimpt can draw
>
>Klim(p)t hasn't even drawn breath since 1918, but he certainly was
>able to draw beautifully before then.
>
>> No skill no art!
>
>But of course skill at drawing is not necessarily all that matters.
Never said it its all.
>What specific skills do you regard as essential to an artist?
-Drawing for starters, Technique that looks more than Modern Academic
Art school.
brigit bardot brigade
> On 22 Jul 2004 15:46:00 -0700, brigit...@hotmail.com (brigit bardot
> brigade) thought hard and said:
>
> >we've had impressionism, expressionism, futurism, cubism, pop artism,
> >surrealism, dadaism, stream of consciousnessism, french new waveism,
> >atonalism, neo-classicism, art decoism, art noveauism...
> >
> >do you have any other ideas for art movements?
> >
> >how about these?
> >
> >painism. artist must hurt himself really badly before starting on his
> >work. like a painter in pain. he takes a hammer and smashes his toe
> >and then starts the brushwork. or a writer pulls out his tooth and
> >starts writing. a sculptor asks a woman to knee him the groin before
> >he takes up the hammer and chisel. the advantage? well, we think of
> >artists as too aloof and theortical. this ought to bring back that
> >zing.
> >
> >mooreism. an artist creates a work with the goal of sending it to
> >michael moore and pissing him off. for example, a writer would have
> >to write alot of fat jokes. or a painter might draw moore and then
> >smear it with elephant dung.
>
> How about combining these two. I call it stupidtrollingfuckwitism.
> What you do is, a writer or a painter or a musician will kill you and
> then describe it using their respective art.
nigga, i dare you to say that to my face.
Gareth Williams
>>Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
>
> LOL your web site is a hoot -- especially the bit where you use
> the word "skepticism".
The best bit by far was the "Nosepickers of Avignon".
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Jerry Kohl
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 04:49:05 GMT, Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >> Klimpt can draw
> >
> >Klim(p)t hasn't even drawn breath since 1918, but he certainly was
> >able to draw beautifully before then.
> >
> >> No skill no art!
> >
> >But of course skill at drawing is not necessarily all that matters.
>
> Never said it its all.
>
> >What specific skills do you regard as essential to an artist?
>
> -Drawing for starters, Technique that looks more than Modern Academic
> Art school.
Yes, I think we said that was one possibility, but at the risk of
restating
the obvious, what other specific skills are essential? (Drawing, for
example, is rather beside the point as a technique to be used in the
production of sculpture, wouldn't you agree?)
Gareth Williams
> 'The word's main function is to be trotted out as an example of a long word
> (it was the longest in the first edition of the Oxford English Dictionary
> but was supplanted by pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
... anyone get the impression that there are sadistic neologists out there
deliberately coining words like "pneumo[...]osis" just to take the piss
out of the victim? Judging by that word I daresay one of the symptoms
must be shortness of breath, so why give the condition such a damnably
lung-bursting name? Like, why is "dyslexia" so tricky to spell? I think
we should be told.
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Dr.Matt
Look, as Mani's home page makes clear, he thinks the purpose of art
is to provide him with soft-core porn, and anything not contributing
directly to that purpose is going to be the topic of his attack.
How he can even begin to address the topic of music remains to be seen.
gm
> OK, this post reminds me of this movie I saw ages ago that I haven't been
> able to find and it's been driving me out of my skull. It's a Canadian WWII
> movie about a submarine full of Nazis who wreck on the Canadian coast and
> then they have to find their way across Canada and they run into all kinds
> of Representative Canadians (except the French). One stop is with a guy
> camping in the woods who brought his butler, his Picasso and his Matisse
> with him. The nazis capture the fellow, destroy the art (I forget what they
> did with the butler - probably captured him too) and are on their way out
> when the guy breaks free, catches one of the nazis and pummels him saying
> "this is for the Picasso! And this is for the Matisse!" Does anybody know
> this movie?
>
The only Nazis-in-Canada movie I can think of offhand is THE 49TH PARALLEL.
herothatdied
"michael" <non...@mungo.com> wrote in message
news:41051FEA...@mungo.com...
treat of a movie and one I've been looking for for years. - htd
Mani Deli
(Dr.Matt) wrote:
>Look, as Mani's home page makes clear, he thinks the purpose of art
>is to provide him with soft-core porn, and anything not contributing
>directly to that purpose is going to be the topic of his attack.
I'm sure Norman Rockwell and Disney are soft core porn in your book.
>How he can even begin to address the topic of music remains to be seen.
I'm not interested in music.
I didn't check the answer listing and in future will address
rec.arts.fine
Mani Deli
wrote:
>> >What specific skills do you regard as essential to an artist?
>>
>> -Drawing for starters, Technique that looks more than Modern Academic
>> Art school.
>
>Yes, I think we said that was one possibility, but at the risk of
>restating
>the obvious, what other specific skills are essential?
I mention starters because Modern Academic art lacks it.
(Drawing, for
>example, is rather beside the point as a technique to be used in the
>production of sculpture, wouldn't you agree?)
No. However I was addressing painting.
Ray
I'm sure that you are, and that it is.
I have heard of PhD's being awarded for less substantive subjects!
regards
Ray
J. A. Mc. wrote:
> Guess I'm a 'sculpture' and my hat is 'art'.
>
> Must be a PhD ... eh?
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:24:01 +1000, Ray <R...@somewhere.com> found these
> unused words floating about:
>
>
Dan Clore
I once posted, elsewhere, this comment:
Okay, but only because I'm afraid that if I don't, my
osseocarnisanguineoviscericartilagininervomedullary body
might be praetertranssubstantiationallistically afflicted
with pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolanoconiosis, or
perhaps a hepaticococholecystostcholecystenterostomy,
requiring treatment with
aequeosalinocalcalinoceraceoaluminosocupeoitriolic waters.
(And thanks to the Book of Lists for these words.)
--
Dan Clore
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
"It's a political statement -- or, rather, an
*anti*-political statement. The symbol for *anarchy*!"
-- Batman, explaining the circle-A graffiti, in
_Detective Comics_ #608
NightMist
wrote:
>Mani Deli wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 04:49:05 GMT, Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> >What specific skills do you regard as essential to an artist?
>>
>> -Drawing for starters, Technique that looks more than Modern Academic
>> Art school.
>
>Yes, I think we said that was one possibility, but at the risk of
>restating
>the obvious, what other specific skills are essential? (Drawing, for
>example, is rather beside the point as a technique to be used in the
>production of sculpture, wouldn't you agree?)
>
I'm decidedly not Mani, but may I suggest that the essential skills
are the ones required to get the art out of your head and into the
fresh air?
In theory a sculptor could work without drawing skills, however I
cannot think of a single one of any note that does/did.
There are people who play intruments well with no formal training, or
musical knowledge, but they seldom go far in music.
Some simple skills can be circumvented, a writer can dictate or write
long hand and then pay a typist, but most at least hunt and peck until
they get the hang of typing (OK, there is Piers Anthiny, but even he
has his Dvorak keyboard and word processor now, besides he is wierd
(G)).
Some skills are absolutely required to make what is in your head real,
some just make it easier. Any road, you seldom go wrong in learning
them.
G*rd*n
nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
> I'm decidedly not Mani, but may I suggest that the essential skills
> are the ones required to get the art out of your head and into the
> fresh air?
>
> In theory a sculptor could work without drawing skills, however I
> cannot think of a single one of any note that does/did.
>
> There are people who play intruments well with no formal training, or
> musical knowledge, but they seldom go far in music.
>
> Some simple skills can be circumvented, a writer can dictate or write
> long hand and then pay a typist, but most at least hunt and peck until
> they get the hang of typing (OK, there is Piers Anthiny, but even he
> has his Dvorak keyboard and word processor now, besides he is wierd
> (G)).
>
> Some skills are absolutely required to make what is in your head real,
> some just make it easier. Any road, you seldom go wrong in learning
> them.
That sort of skill is not what Mani's parrot is talking about.
For instance, there is no doubt that Picasso had all sorts of
traditional technical skills, but Mani doesn't like Picasso,
therefore Mani says Picasso lacked "skill". And his parrot
chimes in. It's sort of a standing troll.
But even if we're actually talking about technical skill,
well, Joseph Cornell couldn't or wouldn't draw. Do you
really want to say his stuff is worthless? It seems to me
the muses are willful goddesses and resist being put in the
cages people like to prepare for them.
--
(<><>) /*/
}"{ G*rd*n }"{ g...@panix.com }"{
{ http://www.etaoin.com | latest new material 5/10/04 <-adv't
Mani Deli
>That sort of skill is not what Mani's parrot is talking about.
>For instance, there is no doubt that Picasso had all sorts of
>traditional technical skills,
Modern art mythology! Picasso's skills amount to those of a third rate
illustrator not a great master.
> but Mani doesn't like Picasso,
>therefore Mani says Picasso lacked "skill".
I don't like Picasso because of his mediocre skills and I don't
consider him a master. On the other hand I concider him far from the
utter incompetence and most of what followed. It takes skill to be a
third rate illustrator.
> And his parrot
>chimes in. It's sort of a standing troll.
Your chimpanzees chime in for you as well.
>But even if we're actually talking about technical skill,
>well, Joseph Cornell couldn't or wouldn't draw. Do you
>really want to say his stuff is worthless?
His stuff sells for a lot. I think he's vastly over-rated.
> It seems to me
>the muses are willful goddesses and resist being put in the
>cages people like to prepare for them.
Like Picasso?
NightMist
>> Some skills are absolutely required to make what is in your head real,
>> some just make it easier. Any road, you seldom go wrong in learning
>> them.
>
>
>That sort of skill is not what Mani's parrot is talking about.
>For instance, there is no doubt that Picasso had all sorts of
>traditional technical skills, but Mani doesn't like Picasso,
>therefore Mani says Picasso lacked "skill". And his parrot
>chimes in. It's sort of a standing troll.
>
>But even if we're actually talking about technical skill,
>well, Joseph Cornell couldn't or wouldn't draw. Do you
>really want to say his stuff is worthless? It seems to me
>the muses are willful goddesses and resist being put in the
>cages people like to prepare for them.
>
Ah, but in my mythology, what I think of it is irrelevent.
Was what Mr. Cornell producing what he _wanted_ to produce?
If yes, well then all fine and well.
If no, then he was an utter failure.
So far as skills, drawing might have been useful to him, maybe it
wouldn't. Not being him I can't say. He did have what skills he
needed to produce his assemblages. I do not know if they were what he
wanted to be creating, or if he was limited by what skills he had and
was wiilling to aquire.
What do other people think of it?
Well that is always nice to know, and critical if you need to eat.
I do not think that it has relevence to the creative process per se
though. It is nice if you can introduce your own personal art into
the work you do to buy the turnips or make a living off of it in toto.
In this day and age eating via art is dependent more on agents than it
is on the artist. I absolutely believe that right now how good you
are is secondary to what publicity you get. It has always been that
way to a degree, right on back to rubbing ochre on rocks and beating
logs with sticks, but in this day and age success is very much gauged
by the size of your audience. Whether or not they actually think you
are any good is irrelevent, it's whether you match the sofa that
counts.
Personally, I like the way Cornell plays with space.
Period, end of story.
Nothing he has done matches my computer chair.
(I don't own a sofa)
Dr.Matt
STILL haven't corrected your comma error!
You really ought to learn to use the English language before trolling
in English-language newsgroups.
Dr.Matt
I still like the way Mani misuses the word "Skeptical" while
presenting his personal aesthetic as gospel.
G*rd*n
> >> some just make it easier. Any road, you seldom go wrong in learning
> >> them.
g...@panix.com (G*rd*n) wrote:
> >That sort of skill is not what Mani's parrot is talking about.
> >For instance, there is no doubt that Picasso had all sorts of
> >traditional technical skills, but Mani doesn't like Picasso,
> >therefore Mani says Picasso lacked "skill". And his parrot
> >chimes in. It's sort of a standing troll.
> >
> >But even if we're actually talking about technical skill,
> >well, Joseph Cornell couldn't or wouldn't draw. Do you
> >really want to say his stuff is worthless? It seems to me
> >the muses are willful goddesses and resist being put in the
> >cages people like to prepare for them.
nigh...@uir.zzn.com (NightMist):
> Ah, but in my mythology, what I think of it is irrelevent.
> Was what Mr. Cornell producing what he _wanted_ to produce?
> If yes, well then all fine and well.
> If no, then he was an utter failure.
How do we know what Cornell _wanted_ to produce? We don't.
All we know is whether we like the stuff he actually produced,
if we think it's good, if it does something for us. A lot
of people do, including me, and I'm by no means reverent about
official critical opinion. It seems to me what you think of
something, your direct apprehension of it, is the most
important thing about it (for you). Otherwise, why bother
with art at all?
> ...
G*rd*n
> >...
> >No skill no art!
> >...
fie...@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt):
> STILL haven't corrected your comma error!
> You really ought to learn to use the English language before trolling
> in English-language newsgroups.
Mani's parrot isn't up to commas. Someone should get
it that book about punctuation.
dobe...@dropsocal.rr.com
>Mani's parrot isn't up to commas. Someone should get
>it that book about punctuation.
Do you mean G. V. Carey's "Mind the Stop"?
La Donna Mobile
<dobe...@DROPsocal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:bmgfg0l72plvb4thh...@4ax.com...
Lynne Truss's Eats, Shoots and Leaves.
Jonsmind
all get off on dissing him of his short-comings.
Dr.Matt
Jonsmind <willi...@netscape.net> wrote:
>How many of us are waiting for Mani and his parrot to croak, so we can
>all get off on dissing him of his short-comings.
Well, his own paintings are certainly competent and could probably
function serviceably as covers for 1970's pulp sci fi novels.
*shrug*
francis muir
f01a64f9.04072...@posting.google.com, "Jonsmind"
<willi...@netscape.net> wrote:
> How many of us are waiting for Mani and his parrot to croak,
When birdie falls from his twig he'll croak no more.
Jonsmind
> In article <f01a64f9.04072...@posting.google.com>,
> Jonsmind <willi...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >How many of us are waiting for Mani and his parrot to croak, so we can
> >all get off on dissing him of his short-comings.
>
> Well, his own paintings are certainly competent and could probably
> function serviceably as covers for 1970's pulp sci fi novels.
>
> *shrug*
True, but I always seem to draw more comparison to those Mad Magazine "Fold-in"s
G*rd*n
> How many of us are waiting for Mani and his parrot to croak, so we can
> all get off on dissing him of his short-comings.
They do that already. I don't know what Usenet would do
without Mani and his parrot.
No squawk no awk!
Dr.Matt
>willi...@netscape.net (Jonsmind):
>> How many of us are waiting for Mani and his parrot to croak, so we can
>> all get off on dissing him of his short-comings.
>
>They do that already. I don't know what Usenet would do
>without Mani and his parrot.
>
> No squawk no awk!
No comma, no read! aaaak!
Mani Deli
>willi...@netscape.net (Jonsmind):
>> How many of us are waiting for Mani and his parrot to croak, so we can
>> all get off on dissing him of his short-comings.
>
>They do that already. I don't know what Usenet would do
>without Mani and his parrot.
>
> No squawk no awk!
You will notice that this pomo jerk is incapable of answering my
points.
Dr.Matt
We will notice that you defend your attempts to impose your
aesthetic on others by means of ad hominem.
G*rd*n
> >>> How many of us are waiting for Mani and his parrot to croak, so we can
> >>> all get off on dissing him of his short-comings.
g...@panix.com (G*rd*n):
> >>They do that already. I don't know what Usenet would do
> >>without Mani and his parrot.
> >>
> >> No squawk no awk!
Mani Deli <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >You will notice that this pomo jerk is incapable of answering my
> >points.
> >
> >No skill no art!
> >
> >Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt):
> We will notice that you defend your attempts to impose your
> aesthetic on others by means of ad hominem.
But Mani is right. I don't think I have ever answered Mani's
points, e.g. "I don't like Picasso, therefore Picasso is bad
and everyone must know it." You have to be pretty dumb to
answer one of Mani's points -- it's like talking to a broken
record. So I think we must permit Mani his ad-hominems
because they're really all he has. Except for his parrot.
All together now:
Kater Moggin
g...@panix.com (G*rd*n):
> > I don't know what Usenet would do without Mani and his parrot.
> > No squawk no awk!
> You will notice that this pomo jerk is incapable of answering my
> points.
You answered your points a long time ago when you declared
"What counts is what's on the wall" and described stories
about artwork -- any stories, you said -- as an art historian's
drivel.
So when you offer your stories about some artist's drawing
skills, or an audience's response to a painting, or the
possibility of imitating a given style, you're driveling, going
by your own criterion.
> No skill no art!
ObBook: _Confessions_.
-- Moggin
Mani Deli
>
>But Mani is right.
> I don't think I have ever answered Mani's
>points, e.g. "I don't like Picasso, therefore Picasso is bad
>and everyone must know it."
I wrote detailed reasons since I've been here.
> You have to be pretty dumb to
>answer one of Mani's points
Yes you are pretty dumb.
-- it's like talking to a broken
>record. So I think we must permit Mani his ad-hominems
>because they're really all he has. Except for his parrot.
>
>All together now:
>
> No squawk no awk!
Don't read it Gorden!
I would like to point out why Bob Cantor's criticism amounts to little
more than Artspeak and also introduce you to an artist who could do
portraits and knew how to render the solid with a modern touch.
Most here are already familiar with Tamara de Lempecka's work because
her paintings are starting to be reproduced all over the place. Like
Bouguereau it is the name not the work which is largely unfamiliar.
In my opinion:
Tamara succeeds in portraits which have an aim similar to Picasso's
failures. They are more original, complete, and better drawn, colored
and composed than anything Picasso ever attempted in the portrait
line. While I don't think they rank with the masters, they are fine
competent work which few students or accomplished artists can imitate.
They exhibit the skill and technique which Picasso lacks even though
they are done with similar intentions (creating a portrait in a modern
style while abstracting and simplifying some elements while using a
modern palette). Best of all they are beautiful and never contain
those scratchy areas of flat schmiery ugliness and unfinish so common
in even the best of Picasso.
For those who would like to see what I'm talking about go to Carol
Gersten's sight at: http://familiar.sph.umich.edu/cgfa/
- absolutely the best art sight on the internet.
Also check out the artists you never heard of. It will give you an
idea of how much fine work really exists. Compare it to what is
considered great modern art by the familiar names and decide for
yourself.
Below are some quotes from Cantor's answer to my criticism of
Picasso's G. Stein and why I consider them little more than empty
Artspeak.
>
>
>The composition, based on the classic portrait triangle, is very sound.
>It contains a mixture of strong horizontal, vertical, and diagonal
>movements which pull your eye around the painting but always ends up
>bringing your attention back to the head. The entire surface of the
>painting is activated with interesting textures, lines, and shapes.
All this could be said about Tamara's portraits or most anyone's for
that matter. The statement really pretty well says nothing.
I
>also find the subtle blendings of various ochres, siennas, and browns to
>be very pleasing, although the quiet and understated harmony created by
>these colors is not particularly conducive to the brightly lit and
>attention getting setting of the typical major gallery.
Same here.
>
>But the real interest in the painting is, of course, in the treatment of
>the subject matter.
No shit?
> What immediately grabs ones attention is that most
>of the image is very flat although the head and hands are very strongly
>modeled (not realistically modeled and not modeled with the subtle
>blending of shadows which can so easily create a convincing 3D affect,
The only correct observation.
>When I look at this painting there is the feeling of the subject being
>able to walk off of the surface, as if the image on the surface is
>really Gertrude Stein herself, stored into 2 dimensions using some sort
>of compression algorithm. This is very, very different from recording
>the 2 dimensional projection of 3D space as seen from a single
>viewpoint. Picasso will do away with this space entirely in his best
>figurative works, and instead create images which cause one to
>reconstruct the object within the space of their own consciousness
>rather than somewhere in the real space in front of them.
>
Change the name of Stein to Madam M. and Picasso to Tamara and the
same nonsense can describe Tamara's portraits or most anyone's for
that matter. Its just a long-winded way of saying you like it.
> And so the success of capturing the physical presence
>of Gertrude Stein and the unique way of doing it makes this a very
>powerful painting which is able to transcend its rather ordinary surface
>esthetics.
What success? What is "capturing the physical presence," of anybody.
There is nothing "unique." in the portrait. You can see the same
errors in any better student portrait. And what does "transcend its
rather ordinary surface, esthetics" mean? Nothing I suspect.
All this sort of vacuous babble can be said about any portrait and it
still doesn't really mean a damned thing.
Its just Artspeak. It only sounds like it means something to someone
who doesn't bother to analyze it. I've read forty years of this sort
of drivel in art criticisms of the world's most idiotic paintings and
I feel its time someone points it out.
(This was written long before Hockney came out with his stupid book)
I recall a message from some time ago in which Eicher expressed
outrage that I should claim that Picasso used photographs and an
opaque projector.
An interesting article in the NY Times titled "Photographs that fed
Picasso's vision." (1-11-98) The article reveals how Picasso worked
from photographs. Included is a photo of Picasso doctoring a 35mm
slide. .
I have my information about Picasso's use of photos and projection
from private sources and now this article confirms my view.
The fact is that those who can't draw will get little help by using
photos. Those who can't draw really can't even copy a photograph
because they don't understand light and shade. (Larry Rivers and
Hockney show the best examples of contemporary incompetent schmiered
over photo projection)
Picasso's use of photos only goes to show his incompetence. My
favorite example is the portrait of his son, "Paulo and the Donkey."
You will notice that even in his best portraits he can't really manage
the drapery and the hands.
I suppose that artzy-fartzies will offer the usual excuse for this
namely, that he wanted it that way. Well that may be, but whatever he
wanted its no better than a third rate illustrator. I might add that
in spite of all the raves about Picasso's great drawing ability, any
comparison of his academic student work to that of average academic
drawing of that period show that Picasso was nothing special. Of
course it is hard to see academic drawing of that period. I suspect it
is because it would show what nothing draphtsmen the great Modern
Academic artists really are.
Mani Deli
> (G*rd*n) wrote:
>> But Mani is right.
An he is wrong.
>> I don't think I have ever answered Mani's
>> points, e.g. "I don't like Picasso, therefore Picasso is bad
>> and everyone must know it."
For you lame brain I suppose that's all I ever wrote.
> You have to be pretty dumb to
>> answer one of Mani's points -- it's like talking to a broken
>> record. So I think we must permit Mani his ad-hominems
>> because they're really all he has. Except for his parrot.
>
>Exactly. You can't answer Mani's 'points' because he doesn't make points -
No points! Note the message!
>he only rants and engages in name-calling. I wonder if he realizes that
>calling art 'stupid' is not a point.
Where's that word?
>man passing the time away ...> He says that picasso was a
>'third-rate illustrator' - someone making a point would analyze some work
>and show why this is so.
A good early example of No Skill Realism is Picasso’s "Portrait of
Gertrude Stein" (1906). I have seen it in the museum many times and
always wondered why it should hang there.
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/P/picasso/stein.jpg.html
I challenge anyone here to deny that if this painting was hanging
among others in some university hallway among the usual portraits and
signed R. Mutt it would be judged the worst and would never get a
second look. No street corner portraitist would get paid for such a
hack work.
(did you read that Gordon?)
Perhaps someone here will provide a more complimentary version of my
critique.
Electirc Chair?
Picasso is said to have worked extremely hard on the Gertrude Stein
portrait taking many sittings and then revising it without the model a
year later.
Here we have a very conventional portrait. The placement and
composition are utterly conventional. The face and hands are solid
although the rest is far less finished.
The eyes and part of the mouth are like decals that have been
transferred to a solid head which looks like it was sculpted in rough,
carelessly tinted plaster. The wig looks like a mud flap that is
beginning to slide down the face and along the side of a flat pancake
ear. Unable to realistically separate the background and the cheek,
Picasso drew a brown line around it.
In order to get the best overview of the rest of this painting, cover
the face with a scrap of paper torn to fit over it and look at the
remainder of the picture. Note the "brown sauce" effect which is a
term accusingly used to point out a characteristic of academic
monotony. The solidity of the head and hands give way to a body which
is little more than an amorphous brown blob. Under a little scrutiny
the background deteriorates into a lot of dry brown crudely blended
schmier. Even the color is terrible and doesn’t display Picasso’s
colorist’s skill.
and as our conference Pomo Bimbo said:
>> So I think we must permit Mani his ad-hominems
>> because they're really all he has.
I've mentioned Many Picasso works in detail here and I'm sure you
never read much beyond the first sentence because you are a
Picassoholic.
Electric Nachos
Mani Deli wrote in message <85qkg0hl3o1cjatns...@4ax.com>...
>A good early example of No Skill Realism is Picasso’s "Portrait of
>Gertrude Stein" (1906). I have seen it in the museum many times and
>always wondered why it should hang there.
>
>http://www.artchive.com/artchive/P/picasso/stein.jpg.html
>
> I challenge anyone here to deny that if this painting was hanging
>among others in some university hallway among the usual portraits and
>signed R. Mutt it would be judged the worst and would never get a
>second look. No street corner portraitist would get paid for such a
>hack work.
>
>(did you read that Gordon?)
>
>Perhaps someone here will provide a more complimentary version of my
>critique.
>
>Electirc Chair?
>
Nooooo.... I'd MUCH rather critique one of YOURS!!!
<BIG SMILE>