are weirdos the only good artists?
Duncan McAlester
: Some random thoughts on this subject...
: Most of the stereotype that artists are weirdos comes from the Expressionist
: period when these folks could not make a living at what they did. If I am not
: mistaken, this was the historic period that coined the term "bohemian" in
: reference to artists lifestyles. Pretty much these folks would trade
: paintings for bread to stay alive. Their lifestyles were so counter culture
: as to offend the senisbilities of the ruling main straem.
: Within the American capitalist culture (not meant as an insult), the forces
: that drive commerce have very little use for art or those that produce it.
: Couple this with the fact that most arists know the mores and taboos of
: society, but care little for them, really present an offront to the main
: stream. The masses are not educated in the arts, so they have no
: understanding of what it is, the process or the results that art presents.
: Therefore, it becomes very easy to criticize, make fun of or stereotype.
: Another misunderstanding comes from well intentioned parents, friends and
: associates that feel the competive arena of the arts is so horrid, that no one
: can make a living off it. This is one of the drives of middle class parents
: is to insure that their child receives an education that will pay their bills
: later in life.
: The artist lives on the cutting edge of society, usually. The social concious
: art is usually years ahead of political sensibilty. The artist can and does
: show society things that it would really not admit exists. Mapplethorpe comes
: to mind...
: In a way we are weird because the artist is the true elite of the society. I
: have never met a truely stupid artist, I can not say the same for politicians,
: corporate types and others.
: We can present emotions, feelings and thoughts in a manner that others can
: share. We speak openly of our motivation, concerns and dreams, this alone
: scares the hell out of the average person.
: I too was warned that to become an artist is to die in a cold water flat in
: West Bronx. unknown, unpaid and unloved. But I live in Tucson, make a good
: living, in fact getting a little fat from too much good living, and in the eyes
: of my family "got lucky and beat the odds." The hard work, not withstanding.
: I still remember my grandfather, a crusty old Appalechian coal miner,
: exclaiming in utter disbelief, "you get paid to make pictures?" After seeing a
: check from my first real show.
: Oh yeah, there is that old saying that artists must suffer for their art. And
: this suffering will drive you mad or into the poor house. Of course we
: suffered for our art. Don't all professionals suffer for their skills? What
: is that hell doctors indure called...internship. Or a what a tradesman
: endured at the hands of a hard headed master craftsman during an
: apprenticship. To be good at anything requires a personal sacrifice. At some
: point we all sacrificed other things to learn our trade, be it time with
: buddies at the bar or a smothering relationship. When I was in grad school,
: my social life was almost nihl. When I started, there were 28 in the MFA
: first year program, at graduation, there were only five of us. A little bit
: squirrelly from all the work, but we made it. The social butterflies are
: still wanna be's.
: If being an artist means that I am looked upon by the world as being a weirdo,
: so be it. It is the art that counts not what others think. I could not think
: of anything stranger that being locked up in an office for 10 hours a day
: working for some corporate entity that does not even know my name. The nice
: thing about being an artist is that we get to do what we want to do.
: Just some random thoughts on this thread...I started this a six a.m. and hope
: it is coherent.
: Joe Portale...suffering from early morning caffine deprovation.
: Merry Christmas to all!
:
: Most of the stereotype that artists are weirdos comes from the Expressionist
: period when these folks could not make a living at what they did. If I am not
: mistaken, this was the historic period that coined the term "bohemian" in
: reference to artists lifestyles. Pretty much these folks would trade
: paintings for bread to stay alive. Their lifestyles were so counter culture
: as to offend the senisbilities of the ruling main straem.
: Within the American capitalist culture (not meant as an insult), the forces
: that drive commerce have very little use for art or those that produce it.
: Couple this with the fact that most arists know the mores and taboos of
: society, but care little for them, really present an offront to the main
: stream. The masses are not educated in the arts, so they have no
: understanding of what it is, the process or the results that art presents.
: Therefore, it becomes very easy to criticize, make fun of or stereotype.
: Another misunderstanding comes from well intentioned parents, friends and
: associates that feel the competive arena of the arts is so horrid, that no one
: can make a living off it. This is one of the drives of middle class parents
: is to insure that their child receives an education that will pay their bills
: later in life.
: The artist lives on the cutting edge of society, usually. The social concious
: art is usually years ahead of political sensibilty. The artist can and does
: show society things that it would really not admit exists. Mapplethorpe comes
: to mind...
: In a way we are weird because the artist is the true elite of the society. I
: have never met a truely stupid artist, I can not say the same for politicians,
: corporate types and others.
: We can present emotions, feelings and thoughts in a manner that others can
: share. We speak openly of our motivation, concerns and dreams, this alone
: scares the hell out of the average person.
: I too was warned that to become an artist is to die in a cold water flat in
: West Bronx. unknown, unpaid and unloved. But I live in Tucson, make a good
: living, in fact getting a little fat from too much good living, and in the eyes
: of my family "got lucky and beat the odds." The hard work, not withstanding.
: I still remember my grandfather, a crusty old Appalechian coal miner,
: exclaiming in utter disbelief, "you get paid to make pictures?" After seeing a
: check from my first real show.
: Oh yeah, there is that old saying that artists must suffer for their art. And
: this suffering will drive you mad or into the poor house. Of course we
: suffered for our art. Don't all professionals suffer for their skills? What
: is that hell doctors indure called...internship. Or a what a tradesman
: endured at the hands of a hard headed master craftsman during an
: apprenticship. To be good at anything requires a personal sacrifice. At some
: point we all sacrificed other things to learn our trade, be it time with
: buddies at the bar or a smothering relationship. When I was in grad school,
: my social life was almost nihl. When I started, there were 28 in the MFA
: first year program, at graduation, there were only five of us. A little bit
: squirrelly from all the work, but we made it. The social butterflies are
: still wanna be's.
: If being an artist means that I am looked upon by the world as being a weirdo,
: so be it. It is the art that counts not what others think. I could not think
: of anything stranger that being locked up in an office for 10 hours a day
: working for some corporate entity that does not even know my name. The nice
: thing about being an artist is that we get to do what we want to do.
: Just some random thoughts on this thread...I started this a six a.m. and hope
: it is coherent.
: Joe Portale...suffering from early morning caffine deprovation.
: Merry Christmas to all!
:
: Most of the stereotype that artists are weirdos comes from the Expressionist
: period when these folks could not make a living at what they did. If I am not
: mistaken, this was the historic period that coined the term "bohemian" in
: reference to artists lifestyles. Pretty much these folks would trade
: paintings for bread to stay alive. Their lifestyles were so counter culture
: as to offend the senisbilities of the ruling main straem.
: Within the American capitalist culture (not meant as an insult), the forces
: that drive commerce have very little use for art or those that produce it.
: Couple this with the fact that most arists know the mores and taboos of
: society, but care little for them, really present an offront to the main
: stream. The masses are not educated in the arts, so they have no
: understanding of what it is, the process or the results that art presents.
: Therefore, it becomes very easy to criticize, make fun of or stereotype.
: Another misunderstanding comes from well intentioned parents, friends and
: associates that feel the competive arena of the arts is so horrid, that no one
: can make a living off it. This is one of the drives of middle class parents
: is to insure that their child receives an education that will pay their bills
: later in life.
(snipped)
: If being an artist means that I am looked upon by the world as being a weirdo,
: (snipped)
Yeah, but you've got to admit we are a little weird ! In fact I take
being called weird as a compliment, boost my already over-inflated ego.
DuNx
Donald J. Nelson
>From: jpor...@pimacc.pima.edu
>Subject: re:are weirdos the only good artists?
>Date: 22 Dec 94 08:15:29 -0700
>Some random thoughts on this subject...
>In a way we are weird because the artist is the true elite of the society.
Please don't speak for me when sterotyping artists.
Don Nelson
ThomKitts
Everyone, artists and audiences alike would be better off focusing on the
art itself rather the personalities involved. Anyone can be weird, but not
everyone can be considered an artist.
Thom...@aol.com
Jason A. Hutto
I am an elitist in many ways.
This has been brought about by my observance of the perpetual fascination
this nation has with "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" and nintendo games.
The fact that parents would buy these for their kids before they would
construction paper and glue.
I feel elite because many dads would sooner squander an afternoon glued
to a football game between two colleges 3000 miles away from his house
than spend the afternoon at an art museum 3 blocks away.
I feel elite because there are people in this nation who have never heard
the name "Van Gogh" and would sooner recognize his imagery as a greeting
card than a work of art.
This country is full of craft making bob ross disciples all hell bent on
making bullshit to adorn their country kitchens. This country is full of
people who pay 3.99 a minute to talk to Dionne Warwick's psychic
friends. This nation is overpopulated by people who offer you 25.00 for
a painting, because after all, why should they pay a lot of money for
something they could do themselves.
USA, land of the basket weavers, land of the people who think the 'art'
in hotels is good and wonder how they can afford to keep such nice things
in EVERY room. Land of the magnolia blossom and the seascape and the
pastel hell of walmarts framed 'print' shelf.
I damn well AM elite. I am better than all of them. All the idiots who
call tattoos 'body art; and buy trinkets at fairs while glancing down
wrinkled cheeks and runny noses at me, the painter, with an image they
cant understand like the trashy novels they read while constipated on the
toilets of their double wide trailers. They dont see what i mean so i
must be doing nothing. I must be making crap.
These people think Jim Carey is funny.
I feel no pity for the unwashed uneducated underclass. They have their
geraldo and now they can fuck off. Am i supposed to pander to these
imbeciles? Am i supposed to waste time trying to grab at their souls
when we all know they sold those souls long ago, before they lost their
remote controls and fashion sense?
I am elite as they come and I am proud of my pride.
I am glad I have no TV on which to view ESPN and the home shopping
channel where if i had the tube i could get genuine reproductions of the
worlds greatest farm art.
The USA is full of crap. We are about as aware as an omelette is that it
might one day have been a chicken. And we go along and are digested by
the news media and the entertainment industry and we raise shitty little
brat kids who are addicted to mortal kombat and 9mm pistols. Shitty kids
who will be shitty adults and their kids might as well be braindead.
We need a new renaissance. We need a revolution.
We are the only ones who can initiate it and instead of taking action we
post saying we are not elite.
There is no place for you.
Dont quit your day job.
Kiss my ass with your false humility.
I dont need your puny attitude.
I cant stand people who call themselves artists and then come forth with
the balls of a eunuch. Stay at home, in your closet and paint the pretty
pictures that you do so poorly.
Since when are artists not outspoken? When did some fool decide that we
all should be himble and quiet? I dont like that. I make noise.
Artists are not those who go about their business and quietly paint
refrigerator decorations. When we are silent, Bob Rosses get on tv.
When we keep to ourselves, Artists become wierdos.
It is sad that out there in the world...in this very nation...there are
those who claim to be artists and have no desire ever to be seen again.
they would rather sink into anonymity than ever to be exposed to the
pressures of having to justify themselves. They call themselves artist
because 'hobbyist' requires explanation. "what hobby?" and the like.
"artist" is a term most people respond in kind to. "oh' or "cool" or
"why?" "Artist" gets an easy, standard response.
This is wrong!
We should not allow just ANYONE to have the title, the priveledge, of
being "ARTIST"...
No, youre not, youre a cartoonist.
No, youre not, youre a basketweaver.
No, youre not, you take pictures of birds in your yard.
No, you are the guy who makes those ugly flowers on oval canvas board at
the county fair. Get out of here. You make crappy crafts for old ladies
bathrooms.
No youre not, you wish you were.
Get out of my light get out of my hair get out!
Didnt your wife tell you that you are no good? Why do you not listen?
You have a good job as a software salesperson. Stick with it. Save some
money. Patronize a real artist. Thank you.
--
This has been a message from : Jason A. Hutto (Brother Alphabet)
----------------------------------------------------------------
ja...@ra.msstate.edu | http://www2.msstate.edu/~jah10
Catherine paciotti
: I am an elitist in many ways.
Jason, have you been drinking? I understand that you are angry,
but you need to relax and think about what you are trying to say...
: Am i supposed to waste time trying to grab at their souls
: when we all know they sold those souls long ago, before they lost their
: remote controls and fashion sense?
No, you are not supposed to waste your time on them...
: I am elite as they come and I am proud of my pride.
: The USA is full of crap. We are about as aware as an omelette is that it
: might one day have been a chicken. And we go along and are digested by
: the news media and the entertainment industry and we raise shitty little
: brat kids who are addicted to mortal kombat and 9mm pistols. Shitty kids
: who will be shitty adults and their kids might as well be braindead.
: We need a new renaissance. We need a revolution.
: We are the only ones who can initiate it and instead of taking action we
: post saying we are not elite.
A lot of other countries are full of crap too, and full of shitty little
kids who will grow up to be shitty, artless adults. Fuck 'em. Or try
to educate 'em. Whichever, but make your choice...
Who are you making art for? Who's your audience? Obviously not the
great unwashed masses, but did you really expect them to "get it" anyway?
So why are you so pissed off? I think it's pretty normal for artists
to be misunderstood and labelled worthless. Part of the game.
: " "Artist" gets an easy, standard response.
Now, THIS is news to me...from my own experience, it gets pretty
complicated at that point. If I were to explain my work as a
hobby, I would think that would pretty much satisfy them.
: We should not allow just ANYONE to have the title, the priveledge, of
: being "ARTIST"...
So, who's going to be in charge of bestowing the title, Jason, You?
Sorry, pal, but I just don't think you've got the power (or the
wit) to be in charge of this "elite" crowd.
Stop your whining and get some work done.
Hugs and Kisses,
Catherine.
Scott Van Note
:-) Great Post!
I was wondering when someone would post a truly wierd reply. :-)
Actually the word "wierd" has supernatural connotations.
Are good artists supernatural elitists?
Yeah Yeah, back to crafting. Maybe someday I'll be an artist :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Van Note * Undergrad in Material Sciences and Fine Art ASU
In the aether at sco...@crl.com, On the earth in Tempe Arizona, USA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine paciotti
light up a bunch of cigarettes and sit on a pile of oily rags
while we have a Jim Carey film festival.
Maybe we'll compare body art (hey, I think I've got an old
needle and some india ink around here somewheres) and I think
I've got some turps and ether around too.
We'll call ourselves "The Elite Artist's Boys Club" (although I
have only the balls of a eunich, I'll be an honorary member, okay?)
x's & o's to all,
Catherine
CRAIG A VITTER
Yes... weird people are generally more creative if you consider the fact
that weird just means anything abnormal. Creativity means new and
original, different.
>
> I am an elitist in many ways.
Like abilty to whine endlessly and free acess to internet.
> This has been brought about by my observance of the perpetual fascination
> this nation has with "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" and nintendo games.
> The fact that parents would buy these for their kids before they would
> construction paper and glue.
Yes... I have to agree that Barney almost caused me to toss my T.V.
>
> I feel elite because many dads would sooner squander an afternoon glued
> to a football game between two colleges 3000 miles away from his house
> than spend the afternoon at an art museum 3 blocks away.
This was a great weekend for college ball...
>
> I feel elite because there are people in this nation who have never heard
> the name "Van Gogh" and would sooner recognize his imagery as a greeting
> card than a work of art.
>
Wow... and I finished DOOM II, and I know who Van Gogh is/was (he cut his ear
off didn't he?)
> This country is full of craft making bob ross disciples all hell bent on
> making bullshit to adorn their country kitchens. This country is full of
> people who pay 3.99 a minute to talk to Dionne Warwick's psychic
> friends. This nation is overpopulated by people who offer you 25.00 for
> a painting, because after all, why should they pay a lot of money for
> something they could do themselves.
>
> USA, land of the basket weavers, land of the people who think the 'art'
> in hotels is good and wonder how they can afford to keep such nice things
> in EVERY room. Land of the magnolia blossom and the seascape and the
> pastel hell of walmarts framed 'print' shelf.
Hmm... that Bob Ross is sure cute... (sorry couldn't think of a snappy
response to this bit of tirade.)
>
> I damn well AM elite. I am better than all of them. All the idiots who
> call tattoos 'body art;
J'u got a problem with tatoos?
Mine says 'Born to Die'... funny my mom doesen't like it either.
and buy trinkets at fairs while glancing down
> wrinkled cheeks and runny noses at me, the painter, with an image they
> cant understand like the trashy novels they read while constipated on the
> toilets of their double wide trailers. They dont see what i mean so i
> must be doing nothing. I must be making crap.
>
> These people think Jim Carey is funny.
>
He's not?
> I feel no pity for the unwashed uneducated underclass. They have their
> geraldo and now they can fuck off. Am i supposed to pander to these
> imbeciles? Am i supposed to waste time trying to grab at their souls
> when we all know they sold those souls long ago, before they lost their
> remote controls and fashion sense?
>
Ah... another starving artist to be... doesen't it just make you weepy.
> I am elite as they come and I am proud of my pride.
> I am glad I have no TV on which to view ESPN and the home shopping
> channel where if i had the tube i could get genuine reproductions of the
> worlds greatest farm art.
>
> The USA is full of crap. We are about as aware as an omelette is that it
> might one day have been a chicken. And we go along and are digested by
> the news media and the entertainment industry and we raise shitty little
> brat kids who are addicted to mortal kombat and 9mm pistols. Shitty kids
> who will be shitty adults and their kids might as well be braindead.
>
> We need a new renaissance. We need a revolution.
> We are the only ones who can initiate it and instead of taking action we
> post saying we are not elite.
>
> There is no place for you.
> Dont quit your day job.
>
At least they have day jobs...
> Kiss my ass with your false humility.
> I dont need your puny attitude.
> I cant stand people who call themselves artists and then come forth with
> the balls of a eunuch. Stay at home, in your closet and paint the pretty
> pictures that you do so poorly.
>
> Since when are artists not outspoken? When did some fool decide that we
> all should be himble and quiet? I dont like that. I make noise.
> Artists are not those who go about their business and quietly paint
> refrigerator decorations. When we are silent, Bob Rosses get on tv.
> When we keep to ourselves, Artists become wierdos.
I'm weird and damn proud of it.
>
>
> It is sad that out there in the world...in this very nation...there are
> those who claim to be artists and have no desire ever to be seen again.
> they would rather sink into anonymity than ever to be exposed to the
> pressures of having to justify themselves. They call themselves artist
> because 'hobbyist' requires explanation. "what hobby?" and the like.
> "artist" is a term most people respond in kind to. "oh' or "cool" or
> "why?" "Artist" gets an easy, standard response.
>
>
> This is wrong!
>
> We should not allow just ANYONE to have the title, the priveledge, of
> being "ARTIST"...
>
You're absolutely right!
You're also probably not an artist...
> No, youre not, youre a cartoonist.
> No, youre not, youre a basketweaver.
> No, youre not, you take pictures of birds in your yard.
> No, you are the guy who makes those ugly flowers on oval canvas board at
> the county fair. Get out of here. You make crappy crafts for old ladies
> bathrooms.
>
> No youre not, you wish you were.
>
Huh?
> Get out of my light get out of my hair get out!
Wow easy their Jason, put the syringe down. Relax. Breathe deep.
Remember: pyschiatrists are our freinds!
>
> Didnt your wife tell you that you are no good? Why do you not listen?
> You have a good job as a software salesperson. Stick with it. Save some
> money. Patronize a real artist. Thank you.
>
Your welcome.
By the way, its snowing in Va. "Cool"
>
> --
> This has been a message from : Jason A. Hutto (Brother Alphabet)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ja...@ra.msstate.edu | http://www2.msstate.edu/~jah10
Craig CAVI...@vax1.acs.jmu.edu-If there were no rocks, we'd all be surfers.
____________________________________________________________________________
While Eeyore frets... and Piglet hesitates... and Rabbit calculates
...and Owl pontificates
...Pooh just is.
Benjamin Hoff,"The Tao of Pooh"
____________________________________________________________________________
k295dm.tamsun.tamu.edu
>
>from rec.arts.fine>: I am an elitist in many ways.
>: This has been brought about by my observance of the perpetual fascination
>: The fact that parents would buy these for their kids before they would
>: construction paper and glue.
<rest of rant deleted>
It's probably because cheesy fantasy is more meaningful or enjoyable
to most nine year olds than are the self-indulgent splatterings that
make up much of what art fascists like you considers to be art. Rather
than whine and stomp your feet in trying to impress us that you alone
know true art, perhaps you could go to preschools and daycares to begin
to enlighten those poor blighted youth you seem to despise. That
would reduce the frustration of producing more works of art that
those fools apparently reject whenever presented with your genius.
And admit it, you secretly envy Jackie Sherrill.