Oil Paint Sticks vs. Oil Pastels
Wire...@cris.com
Hi!
This is my first post. I'm interested in Oil Paint Sticks and how they are different from Oil Pastels? I just purchased a couple Sennelier Oil Pastels and one Winsor & Newton "Oilbar" paint stick. I'm not as much interested in using a brush to repaint with the Oilbar, but to get a nice gloss (thick coat) on a watercolor paper.
I've asked several clerks in Art stores about the difference and have not gotten a convincing answer. The Sennelier Oil Pastels seem very creamy, just like the W&N paint stick.
Obviously, cost is a major factor for me. I'm just getting started and you know how costly just getting the basics can be. The Sennelier Oil Pastels cost me $2.45 each and the smallest sized (3 sizes) W&N oilbar cost me $4.75.
Regarding the Paint Sticks, what other companies make them? Is there much of a difference in quality? I know I'm paying a premium for W&N, but they were the only ones I could find here in San Diego.
If anyone has a suggestion regarding a good place to buy Paint Sticks in S. Cal, or manufacturers, I'd appreciate hearing from you!!
Thanks!
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Yolanda Liberte
In article <8407639...@dejanews.com>, Wire...@cris.com says...
>Regarding the Paint Sticks, what other companies make them? Is there much of a difference in quality? I
know I'm paying
>a premium for W&N, but they were the only ones I could find here in San Diego.
I found out that Paint Sticks by another name and by the same manufacturer
(in this case Shiva) are used by ranchers for marking cattle and can be
purchased in a variety of bright colors from farm and ranch supply houses.
Cost is about one-fourth of the cost of the same paint stick at an art supply.
Mooooo-ving on . . .
--
<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>
Yolanda Liberte
<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<:>:<>:<>:<>
Jack Smith
Yolanda Liberte is not a woman. Yolanda is a homophobic, misogynistic,
bigoted old man living in Austin, Texas; who pretends to be an art
professional, and pretends to be associated with the University of
Texas.
Here is a post Yolanda Liberte (Jay Elless <j...@tejas.com> A.K.A. Barbie
Kew, Helen Bakk, Rose Madder, etc.) made last January when he was
calling himself Ima Dillo:
Subject: re: What do YOU think.
From: Arm...@shell.com (Ima Dillo)
Date: 1996/01/10
Message-Id: <4d0o20$j...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
Organization: Tex-I-Can, Inc.
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Because I don't want all the fairies in the world invading my
email box, you will have to reply here to this post query.
While cruising through southern New Mexico early one morning,
before sunrise, on an open highway without another vehicle in
sight, I was pulled over for speeding by a New Mexico State
Trooper. I accepted the ticket, put it in my bag, and didn't look
at it until later when I was unpacking from my trip. The ticket
is a carbon copy, and written across the face with a pen and
ink in original form are these words:
Hi My name is Charlie, and I'm gay.
The officer's signature on the carbon of the ticket is Charles D____.
Aside from being highly insulted by the inferrence of handing this
ticket to a lone male driver in the darkness of early morn, I am
astounded that a highway patrol officer would exercise such
un-professionalism.
My legal question is this. Was the ticket voided by his actions?
I intend to write to the New Mexico Dept. of Public Safety and
complain, and ask that this ticket be voided as an acceptable
apology to me.
Ima Dillo.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And here is another post Yolanda Liberte (Jay Elless <j...@tejas.com>)
made in June when he was calling himself Rose Madder:
Subject: Re: How do you know the county is . . .
From: Fugi...@large.com (Rose Madder)
Date: 1996/06/28
Message-Id: <4r1e58$d...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
Distribution: austin
References: <4qmcpq$5...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
<4qmjui$l...@boris.eden.com> <4qon9i$2...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
<4qrrq7$b...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <31D2A124...@tab.com>
Organization: Colorful Characters, Inc.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: austin.general
In article <31D2A124...@tab.com>, j...@tab.com says...
>Needles to say, if Rose Madder really is a true transsexual she'll
>figure it out some day.
Honey, I figured out long ago who and what I am. Visualize a
morphing of former Gov. Ann Richards with columnist Molly Ivins,
then age the morphed image a 1/4 century, and add the sound
of Phyllis Dillard's voice and laugh and you will be damned close to
figuring out why I choose to disguise myself and sport an alias.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Colorful but fugitive.
~ Rose Madder ~
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brenda Romans
I have never used paint sticks but I do use oil pastels. Different
brands have very different characteristics and I use them all for
different purposes. I have heard Sennelier referred to as "the best".
They certainly have lots of pigment in them and are VERY soft and
creamy. However, I find this creamyness difficult to control.
The technique that I am using at the moment involves drawing the design
with coloured wax pencils (Berol Karisma), then loosely
crosshatching/scribbling various colours (pencil) across the design.
then I crosshatch hard waxy oil pastel in several layers on that. Then
I use sennelier for highlights. I find that once I have used sennelier
nothing will go on top, the surface becomes too slimy. Maybe If I left
it a day or two it would dry out a bit?
I retrieved one painting that I thought was ruined. I had layed on some
sennelier oil pastel too thick and the surface had gone slick so I tried
to slick the rest of the background to make it look all the same. This
looked awful. So I took a pencil and scribbled small marks into the
slick surface, this revealed the blue underneath and gave a fantastic
feel to the picture.
If you blend colour Sennelier are probably great. For a more graphic
feel try Pentel, Cray-pas, Guitar etc. Guitar (japanese) are my
favorite. I have a set of 120 shades in half sticks, thay have plenty
of pigment and are good and hard.
Cheers
Brenda
--
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---
Brenda Romans | Clevedon, Somerset, UK
Email: bro...@greyseal.demon.co.uk
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---
Macy Garcia
Hi Brenda!
> If you blend colour Sennelier are probably great. For a more graphic
> feel try Pentel, Cray-pas, Guitar etc. Guitar (japanese) are my
> favorite. I have a set of 120 shades in half sticks, thay have plenty
> of pigment and are good and hard.
Thanks for your input. I've just started with Pastels and love them. I'm
more attracted to the rough/textured look of the oil pastels. I got a
great book called the Pastel Book which goes over all the different types
including the Paintsticks. I have just a few Sennelier. What I've been
tols is that the cheap oil pastes are difficult to ad layers to. The
Senneliers are supposed to be better at such layering.
Bye!
Regiment's Hobby Shop
Brenda Romans <bro...@greyseal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I have never used paint sticks but I do use oil pastels. Different
>brands have very different characteristics and I use them all for
>different purposes. I have heard Sennelier referred to as "the best".
>They certainly have lots of pigment in them and are VERY soft and
>creamy. However, I find this creamyness difficult to control.
Brenda, I've been looking into pastels lately too. I've read that a
thick application will cause problems with lifting or chipping off. You
sound like you use a technique that results in a thick layer of pigment.
Do you have problems with chipping? How do you prevent it? Also, what
do you use as a support- paper or pumice board? Any thoughts on what you
prefer as a support? I'm looking around for pumice board because I've
noticed it as a support on some finished works, but I haven't found a
source for it or directions for making it (if it can be made in-house).
Thanks
AT
Macy Garcia
In article <5047kh$u...@ns3.n-link.com>, Regiment's Hobby Shop
<game...@n-link.com> wrote:
I know (from a great book called the Pastel Book) that you can make a nice
Pastel board by starting with a canvas board, and apply a layer of
Modeling paste with a palette knife. This gives a nice texture for both
soft and oil pastels. In the book, he refers to a rough Modeling Paste
instead of smooth. In the event only a smooth is available, you can add a
fine sand or silica powder.
William Markiewicz
Brenda Romans <bro...@greyseal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I have never used paint sticks but I do use oil pastels. Different
>brands have very different characteristics and I use them all for
>different purposes. I have heard Sennelier referred to as "the best".
>They certainly have lots of pigment in them and are VERY soft and
>creamy. However, I find this creamyness difficult to control.
>I retrieved one painting that I thought was ruined. I had layed on some
>sennelier oil pastel too thick and the surface had gone slick so I tried
>to slick the rest of the background to make it look all the same. This
>looked awful. So I took a pencil and scribbled small marks into the
>slick surface, this revealed the blue underneath and gave a fantastic
>feel to the picture.
I have also found that Sennelier is too creamy and since they are
so expensive have never experimented much with them but your
description of drawing with pencil into the surface has sparked my
curiosity. As far as the Guitar brand oil pastels go, I hadn't
realized they were artist's quality. Have you researched them? Have
you ever heard that oil pastel should be used on sized paper? I have
never bothered doing this as I use them 'dry.'
A bit off topic -- if you like the graphic and grainy, try Caran
d'ache wax/oil Neocolor. A bit hard to find so be sure that it says
wax/oil as Neocolor covers several different types of crayon.
Nikole at William's
William
http://web.idirect.com/~vagabond
Macy Garcia
> >I retrieved one painting that I thought was ruined. I had layed on some
> >sennelier oil pastel too thick and the surface had gone slick so I tried
> >to slick the rest of the background to make it look all the same. This
> >looked awful. So I took a pencil and scribbled small marks into the
> >slick surface, this revealed the blue underneath and gave a fantastic
> >feel to the picture.
>
> I have also found that Sennelier is too creamy and since they are
> so expensive have never experimented much with them but your
> description of drawing with pencil into the surface has sparked my
> curiosity. As far as the Guitar brand oil pastels go, I hadn't
> realized they were artist's quality. Have you researched them? Have
> you ever heard that oil pastel should be used on sized paper? I have
> never bothered doing this as I use them 'dry.'
You should use a sized or gessoed surface for Oil pastels or oil sticks.
The oils and solvents will penetrate un protected canvas or paper
and eventually decompose. Try modeling paste on a canvas board for a nice effect
with any pastel technique!
Brenda Romans
I have been using paper made for soft pastels (and I prefer black) but
had been wondering whether the oil would eventually affect it. It was
interesting to read your comments. I'm not sure that I can face the
hassle of coating canvas with modelling paste. I suppose that I could
just use oil or universal primer on paper, but then I'd have to paint it
with something to get it black. And... I do like the surface of the
paper to work on.
Kenneth Leslie in a book called Oil Pastel (ISBN 0-8230-3310-4)
recommends good quality paper (whatever suits your technique) finished
with Gesso or Gelatin or clear acrylic medium. This book has all sorts
of recommendations for sufpports and finishes.
Anyway.....How badly does the oil affect the paper? I have 4 year old
pictures that look fine. If my pictures last for 50 years that would be
OK I think. The topic of longevity interests me, I'll start a new
thread on this.
On the subject of oil pastels chipping - I have not had a problem with
this. Maybe a really thick layering would chip after it had dried out
for a while and you bent the support but I haven't seen it. I did find
once that a single mount board wasn't thick enought to keep the glass
off the highest bits of pastel. I don't put it on so thick now though!
On Guitar pastels, Before I bought the big set of oil pastels I had just
seen guitar pastels in small (kids size) sets and thought that they just
looked like kids stuff. Then I found this set of 120 in wonderful
graduated shades. Unfortunately I can't remember where I bought them,
but I'm going to find out so I can buy more. They really are on the
hard side so if you like the feel of sennelier you might not go for
these. They also seem to have plenty of pigment. When I find out more
I'll post it. I'll look out for the wax/oil neocolour too. The very
best thing is the range of very close shades for subtle shading.
About cheap VS expensive pastels. I believe that cheap means less
pigment (therefore less covering power), harder texture (therefore a
waxier denser oil) and less lightfastness. Less pigment is a pain, but
one you can judge for yourself straight away. Harder texture to me is a
virtue, and maybe a more waxy oil would be less damaging to the support.
Lightfastness is difficult to ascertain without really going into
testing. The book I mentioned above has reproduced some home done
lightfastness tests showing caranDache, grumbacher, holbein,Panda,
Sakura, sennelier. This showed that Sennelier was best, Holbein and
caran Dache looked ok and the others were not impressive. Perfect
lightfastness would be best, but again, how much do you need?
Cheers
Brenda
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brenda Romans
Email: bro...@greyseal.demon.co.uk
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William Markiewicz
Brenda Romans <bro...@greyseal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I have been using paper made for soft pastels (and I prefer black) but
>had been wondering whether the oil would eventually affect it. It was
>interesting to read your comments. I'm not sure that I can face the
>hassle of coating canvas with modelling paste.
This sounds less archival than using uncoated paper.
>
>Anyway.....How badly does the oil affect the paper? I have 4 year old
>pictures that look fine. If my pictures last for 50 years that would be
>OK I think. The topic of longevity interests me, I'll start a new
>thread on this.
Oil sticks affect the paper just like oil paints. But I agree
that I see no changes in the paper even in 10 year old oil pastels.
>On the subject of oil pastels chipping - I have not had a problem with
>this.
Neither have I. There is always paper grain visible under most of
my strokes even though there strokes are cross hatching etc.
>On Guitar pastels, Before I bought the big set of oil pastels I had just
>seen guitar pastels in small (kids size) sets and thought that they just
>looked like kids stuff.
I had the same experience -- however I never have seen the big
boxes.
> Lightfastness is difficult to ascertain without really going into
>testing.
I put my trust in the brand until I know better. Working with
Sennelier (highest rated brand for lightfastness) is like working with
lipstick -- sure there may be a day when I'd like to do that too but
..I'd better check the names on the boxes I'm using.
>Cheers
>Brenda