Oil Brushes recommendation
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>I'm almost ready to begin my oil painting. I gessoed the support and
>will sand it tonight, then refine my drawing. I started looking
>through my brushes awhile ago though and noticed that the ones I have
>(which weren't that great to begin with) are pretty old. Late 70's.
>I'm pretty sure that my tempera brushes -- sables, mostly -- won't
>work for laying down oil paint. I thought I'd ask here, since you all
>seem so knowledgeable and have been so kind about answering my pesky
>questions. I'll have to order them, since I'm fairly sure that walmart
>won't carry what I need and Tulsa is just too far away to drive. So
>recommendations for brushes? Types, sizes? (panel size is fairly small
>to begin with, at 2' x 2')
Well, the types and sizes of brushes you need depend on your type of
work. Here's a link with some info about oil painting brushes (the
info starts half way down, the first part is about watercolor brushes.
http://www.trueart.info/western_brushes.htm
It's good practice for hog bristles to buy one of every size and type
for each color group you intend to use them for since these rough
brushes typically hold on to the pigments. Especially the new, strong
organic colors make the brush their permanent home. Bristles never get
completely clean (this is because the hairs are so rough, lots of
split ends, the so called "flags"). So, let's say you use a #10 round
then you might want to have one for the reds, one for the blues, one
for the yellows, one for white, etc. You wouldn't want to see traces
of red in what needs to be completely white just because the brush
which applied the white has been used for red as well.
Furthermore : you might want to take a look at painting knives (not
palette knives, they are used for mixing and making paint). They're
great for a number of purposes. You can scrape off paint from the
canvas with them, scratch the paint, quickly apply big areas of paint
and even make a complete painting with them (once you know how to
handle them they can make the smoothest layers).
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>On Sat, 03 May 2003 02:41:20 +0200, Paul Mesken <usu...@euronet.nl>
>pulled up a chair and spoke thusly:
>
>
>>Well, the types and sizes of brushes you need depend on your type of
>>work. Here's a link with some info about oil painting brushes (the
>>info starts half way down, the first part is about watercolor brushes.
>>
>>http://www.trueart.info/western_brushes.htm
>>
>>It's good practice for hog bristles to buy one of every size and type
>>for each color group you intend to use them for since these rough
>>brushes typically hold on to the pigments. Especially the new, strong
>>organic colors make the brush their permanent home. Bristles never get
>>completely clean (this is because the hairs are so rough, lots of
>>split ends, the so called "flags"). So, let's say you use a #10 round
>>then you might want to have one for the reds, one for the blues, one
>>for the yellows, one for white, etc. You wouldn't want to see traces
>>of red in what needs to be completely white just because the brush
>>which applied the white has been used for red as well.
>>
>>Furthermore : you might want to take a look at painting knives (not
>>palette knives, they are used for mixing and making paint). They're
>>great for a number of purposes. You can scrape off paint from the
>>canvas with them, scratch the paint, quickly apply big areas of paint
>>and even make a complete painting with them (once you know how to
>>handle them they can make the smoothest layers).
>
>Ah, thank you for the link and the info, Paul. I did NOT know I needed
>one for every color group!
It's only for the hog bristles ofcourse. Sables can be cleaned
perfectly (thank God, they're 5 times more expensive :-) It's not
uncommon for an oil painter to have 50-100 bristles. I just counted my
own, there're 55 of them (which I hardly touch nowadays since I've
gone ga-ga with sables and painting knives :-) The hairs of the
bristles are all stained with the paint they were used for even though
I clean my brushes very well. The bulk of my bristles come in
triplets, one for yellow/white, one for the blues and one for the reds
(I only used a very few for the blacks). It might be possible to clean
them completely but this would take such an aggressive approach that
it would ruin the brush.
Bob C
> recommendations for brushes? Types, sizes? (panel size is fairly small
> to begin with, at 2' x 2')
>
I use almost entirely flats of sizes 2 to 10 and size 2 rounds for
detailed work (I do have some larger flats and rounds, but don't much
worry about the quality of those). My favorite flat for it's combination
of quality and price is the W&N Lexington II, which is a bristle blend.
I haven't really discovered a favorite 2 round, but I usually look for
sable or sometimes a good quality sable/synthetic blend.
- Bob C.
Hans Soutt
xenoc...@sbcglobal.net says...
>I'm pretty sure that my tempera brushes -- sables, mostly -- won't
>work for laying down oil paint.
It's very difficult
to answer your question since you have some
experience and we know nothing of your painting
methods. Brush preference is such a personal
matter and there is such a huge selection of
them. Size variations only complicate matters
further since it matters what you favor by way
of 'brush strokes.' One GENERAL RULE for brush
ownership by the SERIOUS ARTIST is this:
YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY BRUSHES!
As for using 'sables' - they should work okay.
I never worried about keeping my brushes separated
as Paul suggests - by color groups. I clean my
brushes thoroughly after use and there is no
detectable color remaining in the bristles after
I finish cleaning. Even if there were, the amount
of residual pigment would be too small to affect
later color choices, IMO.
I do separate the brushes I use by whether I
use them for watercolor, acrylic or oils. For
oils I have various sizes and shapes of hog
bristles, red squirrel, etc as well as synthetic
bristles like "Sablette" etc.
For acrylic painting, I use synthetics exclusively.
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>In article <lb06bv8v1hcmg5qd5...@4ax.com>,
>xenoc...@sbcglobal.net says...
>
>
>>I'm pretty sure that my tempera brushes -- sables, mostly -- won't
>>work for laying down oil paint.
>
>It's very difficult
>to answer your question since you have some
>experience and we know nothing of your painting
>methods. Brush preference is such a personal
>matter and there is such a huge selection of
>them. Size variations only complicate matters
>further since it matters what you favor by way
>of 'brush strokes.' One GENERAL RULE for brush
>ownership by the SERIOUS ARTIST is this:
>
>YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY BRUSHES!
Amen! Just yesterday I ordered another 4 :-)
>As for using 'sables' - they should work okay.
>I never worried about keeping my brushes separated
>as Paul suggests - by color groups. I clean my
>brushes thoroughly after use and there is no
>detectable color remaining in the bristles after
>I finish cleaning. Even if there were, the amount
>of residual pigment would be too small to affect
>later color choices, IMO.
Hehe, I even wanted to include a link to your temporary placed picture
of your painting furniture but it was gone. When I first saw it I
spotted how a lot of your brushes looked blue which almost prompted me
to ask whether you use phtalocyanine blue a lot :-)
Anyway, it's a personal choice. Some swear by it. I guess it also
depends on the pigments used and the thickness of the layers. I
wouldn't want to run the risk of getting a stray DPP red particle in a
delicate (with lots of white) cobalt blue region, would completely
ruin it (those organic colors take "bleeding" to a whole new level :-)
Ah, perhaps I'm just to anal when it comes to colors ;-)
>I do separate the brushes I use by whether I
>use them for watercolor, acrylic or oils.
Indeed an absolute necessity, brushes used for oil can never be used
again for any water based paint.
>For
>oils I have various sizes and shapes of hog
>bristles, red squirrel, etc as well as synthetic
>bristles like "Sablette" etc.
>
>For acrylic painting, I use synthetics exclusively.
Go wash out your mouth with soap! ;-)
Dr. Slick
>
> >As for using 'sables' - they should work okay.
> >I never worried about keeping my brushes separated
> >as Paul suggests - by color groups. I clean my
> >brushes thoroughly after use and there is no
> >detectable color remaining in the bristles after
> >I finish cleaning. Even if there were, the amount
> >of residual pigment would be too small to affect
> >later color choices, IMO.
>
>
> depends on the pigments used and the thickness of the layers. I
> wouldn't want to run the risk of getting a stray DPP red particle in a
> delicate (with lots of white) cobalt blue region, would completely
> ruin it (those organic colors take "bleeding" to a whole new level :-)
> Ah, perhaps I'm just to anal when it comes to colors ;-)
>
Good that you mention this Paul. I was laying down some pale
tan/white, and what comes oozing out when i pressed the bristles down
hard? Blue from the area where the bristles meet the metal!
ha, definitely taught me to bend the bristles a bit hard when i
clean them!
But having a different set for different colors would be nice, never
considered that before.
Slick
Hans Soutt
says...
>>For acrylic painting, I use synthetics exclusively.
>
>Go wash out your mouth with soap! ;-)
Actually, I prefer beginning students begin
painting in acrylics for many reasons I've
mentioned in this forum in the past. HOWEVER,
I do NOT insist they purchase acrylic products.
I leave it up to them. I really don't care if
they come to class with crayons as long as
they make the effort to do something with them.
But the supply list I hand out the first day
of class is specific to acrylic painting.
In any event, here is the *recommended* from
my usual supply list:
2.Artist Brushes - Nylon bristles recommended - Sablette, Bristlette, etc.
Sizes: #4, 8, 12 flats
#2, 6 rounds
#2 or 4 riggers (also called liner or script brush)
2" wide, flat nylon housepainting brush - best quality available.
3.Painting Knife - with 3" long flat, straight, flexible blade. NOT to be
confused with palette (mixing) knife.
Hans Soutt
xenoc...@sbcglobal.net says...
>I read in my new book last night that Mr. Buechner uses sables for
>smooth passages, where he doesn't want strokes to show.
While it may be so for painting with 'stiff' paint,
smoothness is most easily achieved by the correct
choice of the medium you use with your tube colors.
A proper medium will tend to 'level out' on it's
own once applied to the canvas, as in a glazing
application.
For example: a mix of equal parts stand oil, turps,
and damar varnish is my choice when glazing.
OTOH, brush marks are part of the process and
I certainly never worry about them. Some artists
think that I'm not 'painterly' enough because
I don't have MORE brush marks showing. TEHO!
>I have turpenoid leftover from my
>son's painting, is it ok to use that for cleaning?
Perhaps you missed the recent discussions
on brush cleaning? Nothing wrong
with using up the left over turpenoid but regular
old paint thinner (mineral spirits) is my first
choice, followed by an application of waterless
hand cleaner rubbed to a watery consistency in
my hands and then rubbed into the bristles of
the brush, followed by an Ivory soaping followed
by water rinsing. That's how I clean my oil brushes.
And for Paul, I do end up with STAINED bristles
in hog bristle brushes from those paints that
are not pigment based, but dye based. Once the
bristles are dyed, I suppose I could use bleach
and bleach them white again, but why? It's only
a stain and doesn't come out in subsequent use
with other colors. As for cleaning pigmented paints
from my brushes, the method described above works
well for me and I never have had any problem with
contamination in subsequent painting sessions.
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>On 3 May 2003 07:54:01 -0600, ha...@dontemailme.com (Hans Soutt)
>pulled up a chair and spoke thusly:
>
>
>>It's very difficult
>>to answer your question since you have some
>>experience and we know nothing of your painting
>>methods. Brush preference is such a personal
>>matter and there is such a huge selection of
>>them. Size variations only complicate matters
>>further since it matters what you favor by way
>>of 'brush strokes.' One GENERAL RULE for brush
>>ownership by the SERIOUS ARTIST is this:
>>
>>YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY BRUSHES!
>
>lol, ok, thank you Hans. And Paul and Bob. I appreciate the advice and
>candor. Uhh... I don't have any painting methods yet ;) Well, only if
>you qualify tempera painting, which is a method all on its own, I
>should think. Probably not many oil painters who use a tempera method.
>Of course, what the hell do I know. I'm as dumb as a post about oils
>*and* the painters who use them. :( I did get a new book in yesterday
>that should help, though, and I think someone here recommended it --
>"How I Paint -- Secrets of a Sunday Painter" by Thomas Buechner. Looks
>to be pretty informative about at least some aspects. Anyway, I'm not
>sure that I'll want to have very many brush strokes showing. I suspect
>that that's part and parcel of being a tempera painter. All those
>smooth passages. Glazing is probably what I'll tend towards. Actually,
>I'd like to get to the point where I can paint like this gentleman.
>http://www.rtdavis.com/painttec.html And he doesn't give nearly enough
>information about his technique.
Ah, in that case : stay away from anything that is not sable. There's
no amount of Venetian Turpentine that can make hog bristles produce
such smoothness. Sables are ofcourse the weapon of choice in glazing.
Andrew D
<xenoc...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 03 May 2003 02:41:20 +0200, Paul Mesken <usu...@euronet.nl>
>pulled up a chair and spoke thusly:
>
>
>>Well, the types and sizes of brushes you need depend on your type of
>>work. Here's a link with some info about oil painting brushes (the
>>info starts half way down, the first part is about watercolor brushes.
>>
>>http://www.trueart.info/western_brushes.htm
>>
>>It's good practice for hog bristles to buy one of every size and type
>>for each color group you intend to use them for since these rough
>>brushes typically hold on to the pigments. Especially the new, strong
>>organic colors make the brush their permanent home. Bristles never get
>>completely clean (this is because the hairs are so rough, lots of
>>split ends, the so called "flags"). So, let's say you use a #10 round
>>then you might want to have one for the reds, one for the blues, one
>>for the yellows, one for white, etc. You wouldn't want to see traces
>>of red in what needs to be completely white just because the brush
>>which applied the white has been used for red as well.
>>
>>Furthermore : you might want to take a look at painting knives (not
>>palette knives, they are used for mixing and making paint). They're
>>great for a number of purposes. You can scrape off paint from the
>>canvas with them, scratch the paint, quickly apply big areas of paint
>>and even make a complete painting with them (once you know how to
>>handle them they can make the smoothest layers).
>
>Ah, thank you for the link and the info, Paul. I did NOT know I needed
>one for every color group!
Starting out, you'll probably get by with two of each chosen size. One is
used for darks/shadows, the other for bright/highlights. This way any
stray colour is usually not as big a problem as, for example, getting a
streak of dark blue in a bright yellow stroke of paint.
Some of the new synthetic brushes are also quite useful but it really
depends what you plan to do with your paint.
Andy D.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"
Mike Stengl
I have two bigass flats (bristle) a #12 & a 14 I think I use for
almost all my painting and certainly all my colors, interchangably. I
have a much smaller flatI use to sketch the thing out. A couple of big
brights come into play when the going gets rough, the seas are angry,
the boat's taking in water. I have a bucket full of other brushes,
sizes, different fibers they sit unused. Go for what works I say. Know
one old timer, retired illustrator, has works in galleries where folks
with money tread, often uses one brush on a painting, wiping in
between colors. This process allows for less mixing, the slight
residual color mixed with the new create a "dirtying" affect which
immediately makes the new color 'at home' on the painting with the
colors which have already been applied. This is probably a good place
to note that when a brush begins to get unruly, making marks I didn't
intend, I wipe it off check it out and take a razor to the offensive
follicles. Seems to allow a favorite brush to get much more useage.
Hans Awn
eatn...@humboldt1.com says...
>I wipe it off check it out and take a razor to the offensive
>follicles. Seems to allow a favorite brush to get much more useage.
Next time that happens, especially if it's a nylon
bristle brush, dunk it in boiling water before
deciding to trim. I've been able to 'straighten'
out really badly frayed bristles by doing so.
Reshape with your fingers after soaking in the
boiling water for a brief spell.
And here is another good idea. I keep a bit of
gum arabic on hand for those brushes that I plan
to lay up for lengthy periods. Dip the brush in
the gum, shape the bristles with fingers and
allow to dry. The gum arabic will 'glue' the bristles
in whatever shape you put them in. It can be easily
removed by dipping the brush in water before using
it again. This is the same method used by brush
suppliers who want their bristles to survive the
sales room or shipping services.
Andrew D
[snip]
>And here is another good idea. I keep a bit of
>gum arabic on hand for those brushes that I plan
>to lay up for lengthy periods. Dip the brush in
>the gum, shape the bristles with fingers and
>allow to dry. The gum arabic will 'glue' the bristles
>in whatever shape you put them in. It can be easily
>removed by dipping the brush in water before using
>it again. This is the same method used by brush
>suppliers who want their bristles to survive the
>sales room or shipping services.
I thought they used gelatin.
Mike Stengl
> In article <45dd5dd.03051...@posting.google.com>,
> eatn...@humboldt1.com says...
>
> >I wipe it off check it out and take a razor to the offensive
> >follicles. Seems to allow a favorite brush to get much more useage.
>
> Next time that happens, especially if it's a nylon
> bristle brush, dunk it in boiling water before
> deciding to trim. I've been able to 'straighten'
> out really badly frayed bristles by doing so.
> Reshape with your fingers after soaking in the
> boiling water for a brief spell.
>
>
brush gets crazy, clip, painting frenzy continues...
Hans Awn
>Boars bristle. And we're talking in the midst of a painting frenzy,
>brush gets crazy, clip, painting frenzy continues...
Okay! Whatever works in that case. I've not had
that problem at the 'frenzied' pace I work at.
But if you have to stop and choose the 'correct'
brush to go with each color as some have suggested
doing here, you're 'frenzied' pace isn't my
frenzied pace. I simply rinse (one color) and go
(with another color).
Hans Awn
right@the_end.of.my_tether says...
>I thought they used gelatin.
Could be. Does gelatin set up hard?
Does it have the same effect as if
varnish were allowed to dry in the bristles?
I assumed it's gum arabic because
it dissolves in water. In any event, it's
hard like lacquer when the brushes are
received but softens and is quickly removed
when the bristles are soaked in warm water.
And I use gum arabic, in any event, for
putting brushes (especially my hog bristles)
back into storage for extended periods.
Mike Stengl
One thing I may do to to keep up the frenzy, is having two or three
brushes in hand so I can work back and forth without having to clean
the brush I'm using. But whatever, I'm sitting at this keyboard,
TALKING about painting. How lame is that.
Richard
Go to Walmart or any other large craft store and get a set of cheap Chinese
made hog brushes ...they are white and stiff. Pass on the round ones if you
can and also avoid the small ones.
Use Walnut oil 50/50 w Walnut alkyd oil for mixing and thining. No smell, no
health problems, and you can vary the dry time at will by changing the mix.
(All Walnut oil = one week; all Walnut alkyd = overnight) Generally, you
want the dry time to be about three days.
Brush cleaning is with Neet's Foot Oil which you can find at many stores
from grocery to Walmart to craft etc.
A brush is good as long as it still loads up w paint and lays down
responsively, and does not shed bristles. Toss them when they shed.
Always leave a brush wiped out w Neet's Foot oil, and always start a brush w
dipping it in Walnut oil and wiping out.
There is no need for any of the old turps, linseed, etc., etc. that this
list runs on about.
Following the above your colours will be the brightest, your marks the
strongest and your health and safety (linseed is a HUGE fire hazard)
assured. Use paper towels to do all your wiping. Set your garbage out often.
Small patches of cloth can be handy to make some kinds of marks on the
canvas.
In my experience, Gessoing multiple times w sanding in between is not
advised as the tooth holding the paint is lost. It is not a pleasure to make
marks and the paint is very fragile on the surface.
Better to use standard pre-gessoed products to start with. The downside is
that your finished work may look 'canvassy'.
Before you start drawing w paint, make a very thin wash of Alizaron Crimson
and oil and either w a pad of paper or w a large brush, cover the entire
canvas. Wipe the canvas w paper towel till you can't get any more off. Your
finger should slide easily over the surface. Now draw w paint.
Paint thin to start; that means that after you have drawn with paint (burnt
umber), start the block in w paint that is dragged thinly across the canvas.
Try not to thin the paint w oil (you will need a little when you use
whites). After the block-in, the canvas should still be translucent when
held to the light.
Scrape the canvas and block-in again looking for design.
If your piece gets dry and you want to start again, always start w 'oiling
in'. Use a paper towel pad or a brush and oil w no pigment, cover the
surface and wipe down. You will find that there is a short time when this is
not possible without disturbing your work to date. If the piece is still
tacky don't paint on it. It must be either dry (to oil in) or wet (why you
want a long dry time).
When drawing w paint, keep a paper towel pad handy (or a small cloth patch)
to erase or alter your drawing. You will find this easier to do than w
charcoal or pencil amazingly enough. Often you may find that the drawing in
burnt umber is a beauty in its own right. Stop now and keep the work aside
for a week or month ...if it still looks good, sign it and be happy! Start
another one.
Improvement in art (oil) is better advanced by the number of starts you do
than the number of finishes.
You may find that the oil appears to be resisted by the surface (either the
gesso or an already painted surface). Use a pad, cover like always, make
sure you have not left any beaded or too wet patches and carry on.
Paint on.
Richard
"WBrownlee" <xenoc...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:lb06bv8v1hcmg5qd5...@4ax.com...
> I'm almost ready to begin my oil painting. I gessoed the support and
> will sand it tonight, then refine my drawing. I started looking
> through my brushes awhile ago though and noticed that the ones I have
> (which weren't that great to begin with) are pretty old. Late 70's.
> I'm pretty sure that my tempera brushes -- sables, mostly -- won't
> work for laying down oil paint. I thought I'd ask here, since you all
> seem so knowledgeable and have been so kind about answering my pesky
> questions. I'll have to order them, since I'm fairly sure that walmart
> won't carry what I need and Tulsa is just too far away to drive. So
> recommendations for brushes? Types, sizes? (panel size is fairly small
> to begin with, at 2' x 2')
>
> thanks,
> wanda
Hans Awn
>But whatever, I'm sitting at this keyboard,
>TALKING about painting. How lame is that.
Unless you're losing money doing it, what
difference does it make? Everyone has to have
a bit of levity in their day - not that
competing in this forum is all than humorous.
But for me it IS a form of entertainment.
Shows how isolated I am, doesn't it!
Andrew D
<capn...@isomedia.com> wrote:
>Assuming oil:
>Go to Walmart or any other large craft store and get a set of cheap Chinese
>made hog brushes ...they are white and stiff. Pass on the round ones if you
>can and also avoid the small ones.
I use one of these for painting grass. I get it out, scrub it hard against
a flat surface so the bristles stick out all over the place, then grab a
dollop of paint of varying colours and "wisp" the brush in a upward
movement creating a random arrangement of "grass-like" strokes.
I find it difficult to use for general painting as it simply doesn't hold
the paint the way I like it.