Opinions on MA/NA wanted
Berry Miley
I finally found a local bookstore that carries the MA/NA.
Can anyone recomend which ones are the best of the series or any
particular ones you enjoyed reading?
Thanks for any advice
--
The views expressed are my own views and do not reflect the official views
of Microsoft Corporation
Brigadier Nathan Rogers
"Berry Miley" <ber...@microsoft.com> babbled:
>I finally found a local bookstore that carries the MA/NA.
>Can anyone recomend which ones are the best of the series or any
>particular ones you enjoyed reading?
MA : Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Empire of Glass, Sorcerer's
Apprentice, Millienial Rites, and Lords of the Storm
NA : Anything by Kate Orman, nothing by Dave Stone, 'Human Nature' and
that covers all the ones I have read
>Thanks for any advice
>--
>The views expressed are my own views and do not reflect the official views
>of Microsoft Corporation
--
"What will people think when they | "Work for? I don't work for anybody.
find that I'm a Jesus Freak" | I'm just having fun"
- DC Talk, "Jesus Freak" | - The Fourth Doctor in
from the album "Jesus Freak" | "Nightmare on Eden"
Gregory A Welda
On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Brigadier Nathan Rogers wrote:
> "Berry Miley" <ber...@microsoft.com> babbled:
>
> >I finally found a local bookstore that carries the MA/NA.
Good for you.
> >Can anyone recomend which ones are the best of the series or any
> >particular ones you enjoyed reading?
>
> MA : Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Empire of Glass, Sorcerer's
> Apprentice, Millienial Rites, and Lords of the Storm
To: BNR
I have not read SORCERER'S APPRENTICE, so I do not know, but LORDS OF THE
STORM? Only if you want to recommend dull, predictable, prattle, then
fine, go ahead
To: BM
In addition to BNR's more sane suggestions, I would like to submit
INVASION OF THE CAT-PEOPLE. I loved it.
> NA : Anything by Kate Orman, nothing by Dave Stone, 'Human Nature' and
> that covers all the ones I have read
HUMAN NATURE, great.
I think that Orman is the most overrated NA author. I have read three
books, up to SLEEPY. SET PIECE was OK, in other words, her best. Her
stuff has always stuck me as vapid, meandering, and lacking real focus.
On the other hand, Stone is the most underrated NA author. I have read
SP and D&D. SP was great. It was manic and truly grotesque. Unlike,
Orman's works, the scope of his stories, as well as the stories themselves,
really do encompass more than anything the TV series ever could.
--Gregory--
Terisa
Gregory A Welda wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Brigadier Nathan Rogers wrote:
>
> > "Berry Miley" <ber...@microsoft.com> babbled:
> >
> > >I finally found a local bookstore that carries the MA/NA.
>
> Good for you.
>
> > >Can anyone recomend which ones are the best of the series or any
> > >particular ones you enjoyed reading?
> >
> > MA : Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Empire of Glass, Sorcerer's
> > Apprentice, Millienial Rites, and Lords of the Storm
>>: Well, I would suggest, along with Goth Opera, Time Of Your Life, Invasion of the Cat-People, The Menagerie, and Managra. Personally, I
thought Managra was a great novel. I felt it really caught the mood and
feeling of Tom Baker's first couple of seasons. But remember, these are
my personal choices. If you don't like them, oh well.
> To: BNR
>
> I have not read SORCERER'S APPRENTICE, so I do not know, but LORDS OF THE STORM? Only if you want to recommend dull, predictable, prattle,
then fine, go ahead
>>:Well, I read Lords of the Storm. You right, sort of. It's not prattle, but it is sort of dull. I can't say I'd recommend it. As far
as the others he listed, besides Goth Opera, I can't comment since I
haven't read them. I've got them, I just haven't gotten around to
reading them yet.
> To: BM
>
> In addition to BNR's more sane suggestions, I would like to submit
> INVASION OF THE CAT-PEOPLE. I loved it.
>>: Agreed. It's a cute novel. Great characterization of the 2nd Doctor.
> > NA : Anything by Kate Orman, nothing by Dave Stone, 'Human Nature' and that covers all the ones I have read
>
> HUMAN NATURE, great.
>>: Agreed. Human Nature is a great book. I'd also suggest Sanctuary, which immediately preceedes Human Nature. The two are kind of linked,
given both the Doctor (?) and Benny lose someone they care for deeply.
I'd also suggest Just War. A story where Chris isn't a total twerp.
It's another rough story though. One of the companions get's tortured in
it.
> I think that Orman is the most overrated NA author. I have read three
> books, up to SLEEPY. SET PIECE was OK, in other words, her best. Her
> stuff has always stuck me as vapid, meandering, and lacking real focus.
>>: Well, I like her books. They're intriguing and involving. They might not be the easiest novels to read. Espically Hummer with all the
turmoil between Ace and the Doctor. But they're good novels. I
recommend all three.
> On the other hand, Stone is the most underrated NA author. I have read
> SP and D&D. SP was great. It was manic and truly grotesque. Unlike,
> Orman's works, the scope of his stories, as well as the stories themselves, really do encompass more than anything the TV series ever
could.
>>: No way. I think Stone's two novels are crap. Well, at least Sky Pirates! is total crap. Death and Diplomacy is a low okay on my rating's
scale. But I wouldn't recommend either. Not even if you made me. And
if you want a writer who's encompassed totally new ideas from the tv
series, read Falls the Shadow. It's a brutal book, very harsh on all the
characters, but it's a far better read than anything Stone's written.
> --Gregory--
>>: Terisa
>>:"Maybe you need a doctor." Peri
>>:"Are you trying to be funny?" 6th Doctor
David GOLDING
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96062...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> Gregory A Welda <greg...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> writes:
>On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Brigadier Nathan Rogers wrote:
>> "Berry Miley" <ber...@microsoft.com> babbled:
>> >particular ones you enjoyed reading?
>>
>> MA : Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Empire of Glass, Sorcerer's
>> Apprentice, Millienial Rites, and Lords of the Storm
>I have not read SORCERER'S APPRENTICE, so I do not know, but LORDS OF THE
>STORM? Only if you want to recommend dull, predictable, prattle, then
>fine, go ahead
Agreed! (Aha! Our IMHOs beat your IMHO! Or don't IMHOs increase in strength
arithmatically?)
>In addition to BNR's more sane suggestions, I would like to submit
>INVASION OF THE CAT-PEOPLE. I loved it.
Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Millenial Rites, they were all great. The
other ones recommended so far are, I think, mediocre at best. I think Eye of
the Giant is the most successful Missing Adventure so far (not my favourite
though). Other good ones are Downtime, Dancing the Code, and The English Way
of Death.
>> NA : Anything by Kate Orman, nothing by Dave Stone, 'Human Nature' and
>> that covers all the ones I have read
>HUMAN NATURE, great.
I disagree. Paul's weakest book. I'd heartily recommend it *after* reading
his prior books, and *after* reading Sanctuary (which I didn't like). Any of
Pauls other books are great stuff.
>I think that Orman is the most overrated NA author. I have read three
>books, up to SLEEPY. SET PIECE was OK, in other words, her best. Her
>stuff has always stuck me as vapid, meandering, and lacking real focus.
Naaah. Kate is the most daring regular author in the series. Her books are
wonders to behold, though I must warn you that the plot seems to diminish
with each book. Her books are based on characters and cultures. Many people
prefer The Left-handed Humingbird because it has the strong plot to hang
onto. If you can live without plot, then her books are brilliant.
>On the other hand, Stone is the most underrated NA author. I have read
>SP and D&D. SP was great. It was manic and truly grotesque. Unlike,
>Orman's works, the scope of his stories, as well as the stories themselves,
>really do encompass more than anything the TV series ever could.
Yes, more Dave Stone! And he has an MA coming out next year. Drool. This is
the Darin Morgan of the New Adventures. I love his stuff.
There are numerous other suggestions I have, but most of all, read Ben
Aaronovitch. His books are hands down the best stuff in the entire range.
Brilliant pieces of work.
Now I'm awaiting the follow-ups explaining how misguided I am in that
opinion... ;)
higs
Dave
--
david by default ... dgol...@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au
*converting Dave is like converting a television into a microwave*
"While all fanwanks are continuity references,
not all continuity references are fanwanks."
Jonathan Blum
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96062...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>,
Gregory A Welda <greg...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>I think that Orman is the most overrated NA author. I have read three
>books, up to SLEEPY. SET PIECE was OK, in other words, her best. Her
>stuff has always stuck me as vapid, meandering, and lacking real focus.
"Meandering" I can see. "Lacking real focus", maybe -- if "focus" means
the kind of straight-ahead driving plot that characterizes the TV series,
then yes. But "vapid"? A writer who integrates character, theme, and
imagery as well as Kate Orman does? Besides being one of the incredibly
few authors to make New Ace a character worth caring about, she gave us
the searing insights into the Doctor's character in "Set Piece" and
"Sleepy", showing both his breaking points and his determination to keep
everyone alive. And then there's Chris's brush with the Turtle in
"Sleepy", which is a wonderfully non-cliched way of touching on some
really scary emotional depths. If you could tell me what bits of her work
you find vapid, maybe that could help me understand...
>On the other hand, Stone is the most underrated NA author. I have read
>SP and D&D. SP was great. It was manic and truly grotesque.
That I'll agree with -- if "Sky Pirates!" had been a hundred pages
shorter, it would have been one of the most stunning NA's in the range.
"Death and Diplomacy" was that hundred pages shorter, and now I can't wait
for his third book...
Regards,
Jon Blum
(who, to head off the inevitable comments, was this much of a Kate Orman
fan even before we first met)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"All this time you two thought you were playing some twisted game of
chess... when it was just me playing solitaire!"
D O C T O R W H O : T I M E R I F T
Gregory A Welda
On 25 Jun 1996, Jonathan Blum wrote:
> Gregory A Welda <greg...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
> >I think that Orman is the most overrated NA author. I have read three
> >books, up to SLEEPY. SET PIECE was OK, in other words, her best. Her
> >stuff has always stuck me as vapid, meandering, and lacking real focus.
> "Meandering" I can see. "Lacking real focus", maybe -- if "focus" means
> the kind of straight-ahead driving plot that characterizes the TV series,
> then yes. But "vapid"? A writer who integrates character, theme, and
> imagery as well as Kate Orman does? Besides being one of the incredibly
> few authors to make New Ace a character worth caring about, she gave us
> the searing insights into the Doctor's character in "Set Piece" and
> "Sleepy", showing both his breaking points and his determination to keep
> everyone alive. And then there's Chris's brush with the Turtle in
> "Sleepy", which is a wonderfully non-cliched way of touching on some
> really scary emotional depths. If you could tell me what bits of her work
> you find vapid, maybe that could help me understand...
I have been avoiding responding to this all day. The first thing I did
when I read this post was to actually look up 'vapid.' Like many words,
I use the contextually, with out knowing dictionary definition.
According to THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY, 'vapid' means Lacking
liveliness, zest, or interest; flat. I did this to simply clarify things
for myself and to frame my response.
First, SET PIECE was OK. I really enjoyed it. It was my first NA. I
had been wanting to start reading the NAs, but I was having a hard time
choosing a first one. I picked SP because it was an exit story. What
was vapid? Dare I say/write the character of the Ship? When discussing
well drawn characters, we must discuss motivation, and Ship, as well as
it's mecha-ants, had none. Where was it from? What was it designed to do?
But, again, I enjoyed SP, because it was what it set out to be, a set
piece.
Second, an easier example, THE LEFT-HANDED HUMMINGBIRD. Characters:
Huitzilin, why was he an enemy of the Dr.? How did he achieve this,
higher, state of existence? And what was up with that psychic book? A
lot of the action seemed to be the principles siting around, while the Dr.
is withering on the floor experiencing some strange painful malady and
worrying about his feathers.
Third, the easiest example, SLEEPY. I had a great deal of trouble
keeping track of the bio-characters. Where they lesbians? Which one was
the man? What was the deaf lady's connection with the survival family?
Except for GRUMPY, the AI characters were the easiest to keep track of.
They had personality, emotions, and they were more real than the 'real'
characters.
And the insight into Chris's psyche, via the Turtle fear. Yes, it was
one of Chris's few good moments, but there was no follow up or
explanation. Orman spent quite a bit of time setting up the Turtle cult
and the planets mysterious distant past, and then, with Chris's
admission, drops it.
As far as insight into the Dr. limitations, no sale. The Dr. has been at
the mercy of creatures who were able to peal away, layer, by layer,
every signifier to identity, and defense mechanism he emulates. But, some
people try to read his mind, he looses it. I do not think so.
In hindsight, maybe 'vapid' was a poor choice. 'Vague' would have been
much better.
--Gregory--
Richard Morgan
jlro...@ix.netcom.com (Brigadier Nathan Rogers) wrote:
>"Berry Miley" <ber...@microsoft.com> babbled:
>
>
>>particular ones you enjoyed reading?
>
>MA : Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Empire of Glass, Sorcerer's
>Apprentice, Millienial Rites, and Lords of the Storm
>
Bucephalus is fun, and Managra is wonderfully creepy and silly at the
same time. The Romance of Crime is a great tribute to season 17 (That's a
compliment!) and Dancing the Code is a good Pertwee shoot-em-up.
>NA : Anything by Kate Orman, nothing by Dave Stone, 'Human Nature' and
>that covers all the ones I have read
>
Everything else by PAul Cornell, also Exodus, Transit, The Also People,
Falls the Shadow, First Frontier, Sanctuary, Original Sin. Everything
apart from The Pit and Strange England, really. Including Dave Stone!
He's good!
HAppy reading.
RM
Dwain Gleason
In article <dgolding.9...@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au>,
dgol...@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (David GOLDING) wrote:
> In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96062...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
Gregory A Welda <greg...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> writes:
> >On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Brigadier Nathan Rogers wrote:
> >> "Berry Miley" <ber...@microsoft.com> babbled:
>
> >> >Can anyone recomend which ones are the best of the series or any
> >> >particular ones you enjoyed reading?
> >>
> >> MA : Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Empire of Glass, Sorcerer's
> >> Apprentice, Millienial Rites, and Lords of the Storm
>
> >I have not read SORCERER'S APPRENTICE, so I do not know, but LORDS OF THE
> >STORM? Only if you want to recommend dull, predictable, prattle, then
> >fine, go ahead
>
> Agreed! (Aha! Our IMHOs beat your IMHO! Or don't IMHOs increase in strength
> arithmatically?)
I didn't think Lords of the Storm was total rubbish, but I probably
wouldn't recommend it to a new reader as an example of the series. It is
easily one of the least successful of the NAs IMHO, unfortunately.
> >In addition to BNR's more sane suggestions, I would like to submit
> >INVASION OF THE CAT-PEOPLE. I loved it.
>
> Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Millenial Rites, they were all great. The
> other ones recommended so far are, I think, mediocre at best. I think Eye of
> the Giant is the most successful Missing Adventure so far (not my favourite
> though). Other good ones are Downtime, Dancing the Code, and The English Way
> of Death.
I greatly enjoyed Eye of the Giant - an excellent read, and the
characterization of the Third Doctor was just about as accurate as it
could be. The English Way of Death was another that I enjoyed greatly (the
"More than 30 Years in the TARDIS" in-jokes left me a little bruised,
however). Otherwise, I agree with your recommendations as well.
[snip]
> There are numerous other suggestions I have, but most of all, read Ben
> Aaronovitch. His books are hands down the best stuff in the entire range.
> Brilliant pieces of work.
While I wasn't as entirely enamoured with Transit as some people around
here seem to have been (it's next on my second-time-around-reading-table,
tho, so my opinion may change at any moment), The Also People is, IMHO,
one of the best NAs, and this just degenerated into drooling fanboy stuff.
However, not being one to stop drooling once I've started... *grin* The
characterizations are very good (and there are a lot of them - everyone
and everything has a personality, even the tables!), the concept of the
Dyson sphere, while not really original, works very well (and the idea of
the planet orbiting inside the sphere had me floored!), and the
characterizations of the regulars were solid. Excellent book, one of the
most enjoyable NA reads in quite a while. All this IMHO. :)
--
Dwain Gleason
dgle...@sky.net
http://www.sky.net/~dgleason/wholink.html
Ben Aaronovitch
>There are numerous other suggestions I have, but most of all, read Ben
>Aaronovitch. His books are hands down the best stuff in the entire range.
>Brilliant pieces of work.
I agree entirely, buy all the NA's by Ben Aaronovitch, in fact buy two
copies of each book (in case you lose one).
Buy all your friends Aaronovitch's books as well. give them away at
parties. Write to Virgin and insist they give him a bigger percentage
of the gross.
Sorry.
Ran out of money again.
(VO) Get back to work!
Ben Aaronovitch
(b...@nomsa.sonnet.co.uk
Christopher Norman
Brigadier Nathan Rogers (jlro...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: "Berry Miley" <ber...@microsoft.com> babbled:
: >I finally found a local bookstore that carries the MA/NA.
: >Can anyone recomend which ones are the best of the series or any
: >particular ones you enjoyed reading?
: MA : Goth Opera, Venusian Lullaby, Empire of Glass, Sorcerer's
: Apprentice, Millienial Rites, and Lords of the Storm
: NA : Anything by Kate Orman, nothing by Dave Stone, 'Human Nature' and
: that covers all the ones I have read
Ahem. Both of Dave Stone's books are bloody brilliant. You cannot be
disappointed (assuming you like *books*, as opposed to
written-out-plotlines).
Maybe I'm just not critical enough, but almost every NA I've read has had
something to offer me. I'd say avoid David McIntee's books, and almost
everyone says "The Pit" isn't worth reading, but apart from that (oh, and
"Shakedown" is pretty dull) I think there's a pretty large percentage of
rather fine books in there. Even the not-so-fine ones are at least worth
the piddly amount you have to pay for them.
Christopher Norman
Christopher Norman
Gregory A Welda (greg...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu) wrote:
: To: BNR
: I have not read SORCERER'S APPRENTICE, so I do not know, but LORDS OF THE
: STORM? Only if you want to recommend dull, predictable, prattle, then
: fine, go ahead
Of all the Virgin DW books I've read, Lords of the Storm is possibly the
most wretched. If you have any appreciation for the art of writing, don't
read it.
: I think that Orman is the most overrated NA author. I have read three
: books, up to SLEEPY. SET PIECE was OK, in other words, her best. Her
: stuff has always stuck me as vapid, meandering, and lacking real focus.
I agree Set Piece is the best one so far, but I fail to understand how
the adjectives "vapid", "meandering" and "lacking real focus" can apply
to either of her other ones. Her plots, though a bit complex, are
extremely tight, coherent and well-thought-out, the writing, even in the
weakest moments, never fails to impress me, and there's an extremely keen
sense of balance between realistic dialogue and "novelistic" dialogue
that overjoys. There are some writers whom I think are her equals
(Aaronovitch, Cornell, Stone, maybe Parkin, maybe Gatiss and Lane), but
she's certainly one of the best.
: On the other hand, Stone is the most underrated NA author. I have read
: SP and D&D. SP was great. It was manic and truly grotesque. Unlike,
: Orman's works, the scope of his stories, as well as the stories themselves,
: really do encompass more than anything the TV series ever could.
Apart from that last sentence, which is clearly ridiculous, I couldn't
agree more.
Christopher Norman
Christopher Norman
Terisa (tlam...@mail.sdsu.edu) wrote:
: scale. But I wouldn't recommend either. Not even if you made me. And
: if you want a writer who's encompassed totally new ideas from the tv
: series, read Falls the Shadow. It's a brutal book, very harsh on all the
: characters, but it's a far better read than anything Stone's written.
Gads, I forgot all about O'Mahony. He's the finest writer Virgin have
come up with yet. I'd go as far as to call him a genuine artist. I don't
even know what he's doing writing Doctor Who books; he needs to get
himself a wider reputation. I'll just say that The Man in the Velvet Mask
and Falls the Shadow are my two favourites out of the whole line. Daniel
O'Mahony's got an extraordinarily individual style (maybe a bit
like Clive Barker, but the similarities aren't obvious), perfect prose,
and a ridiculously fertile imagination. His books are real *novels*, unlike
some of the NA/MAs.
Enough gushing.
Christopher Norman
Kate Orman
Possible SPOILERS for Hummer, Set Piece and Sleepy below...
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.960625...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>,
Gregory A Welda <greg...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>First, SET PIECE was OK. I really enjoyed it. It was my first NA. I
>had been wanting to start reading the NAs, but I was having a hard time
>choosing a first one. I picked SP because it was an exit story. What
>was vapid? Dare I say/write the character of the Ship? When discussing
>well drawn characters, we must discuss motivation, and Ship, as well as
>it's mecha-ants, had none. Where was it from? What was it designed to do?
I'm inclined to agree that the book suffers from a lack of a strong,
personalised villain, but Ship's motives and background are explained in
pages 185 and 186.
>But, again, I enjoyed SP, because it was what it set out to be, a set
>piece.
>
>Second, an easier example, THE LEFT-HANDED HUMMINGBIRD. Characters:
>Huitzilin, why was he an enemy of the Dr.? How did he achieve this,
>higher, state of existence? And what was up with that psychic book? A
>lot of the action seemed to be the principles siting around, while the Dr.
>is withering on the floor experiencing some strange painful malady and
>worrying about his feathers.
*grin* Kind of summarises my writing, really. :-)
Huitzilin wasn't the Doctor's enemy. I don't think there's a word in
English to describe their relationship... but if you read "No Future",
you'll discover how and why they came to have that relationship.
As to how he achieved his "higher state", that's explained on page 188,
as is how he became the Doctor's not-quite-enemy... the psychic book's
background is given on page 242, though I could have done more to explain
how it worked.
>Third, the easiest example, SLEEPY. I had a great deal of trouble
>keeping track of the bio-characters. Where they lesbians? Which one was
>the man? What was the deaf lady's connection with the survival family?
>Except for GRUMPY, the AI characters were the easiest to keep track of.
>They had personality, emotions, and they were more real than the 'real'
>characters.
Yes, they were lesbians. I thought the fact that they were both female,
were married, and slept together was a bit of a giveaway. ;-)
By the "survival family" I guess you mean the other Smith-Smiths - Simone
Smith-Smith is Dot's sister (see page 266).
>And the insight into Chris's psyche, via the Turtle fear. Yes, it was
>one of Chris's few good moments, but there was no follow up or
>explanation. Orman spent quite a bit of time setting up the Turtle cult
>and the planets mysterious distant past, and then, with Chris's
>admission, drops it.
Had you going, though, didn't I? :-) As the Doctor points out, the Turtle
was more of a red herring. What Chris learnt from his encounter with the
"Turtle" comes out in his conversation with Sleepy on pages 232-3.
>As far as insight into the Dr. limitations, no sale. The Dr. has been at
>the mercy of creatures who were able to peal away, layer, by layer,
>every signifier to identity, and defense mechanism he emulates. But, some
>people try to read his mind, he looses it. I do not think so.
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here.
>In hindsight, maybe 'vapid' was a poor choice. 'Vague' would have been
>much better.
I'm going to have to make my explanations clearer! It's no use putting
them in if some readers are missing them and wondering what the heck I'm
on about. :-)
--
Kate Orman - "A broad too deep for the small screen"
kor...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au | http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~korman
Gavin T.D. Greig
Christopher Norman wrote:
> Maybe I'm just not critical enough, but almost every NA I've read has had
> something to offer me. I'd say avoid David McIntee's books
Permit me to entirely disagree with that and say that you should read
David McIntee's books. He's had his off-moments but on the whole he's
rather good - I'd certainly put him somewhere in the top three NA
writers.
Cheers,
Gavin.
--
****************************************************************** \ oo
Gavin Greig, Home: cade...@asgard.compulink.co.uk \____|\mm
M&CS Senior Work: ggr...@mcs.dundee.ac.uk //_//\ \_\
Student Web : http://www.mcs.dundee.ac.uk:8080/~ggreig/ /K-9/ \/_/
***************************************************************** /___/_____\
Jen
(Jonathan Blum) wrote:
> In article <4qrn4n$h...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
> Brigadier Nathan Rogers <jlro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >jb...@access4.digex.net (Jonathan Blum) babbled:
> [my comments about Kate's writing snipped]
> >Ah ha! But I bet you typed this while she held a gun to your head! <G>
>
> *huge theatrical sigh* As I said...
>
> >>Regards,
> >>Jon Blum
> >>(who, to head off the inevitable comments, was this much of a Kate Orman
> >>fan even before we first met)
>
> Paul Cornell's work so much, that I must be having an affair with him on
> the side?
Oh, don't worry. People who've been around long enough remember that you
were worshipping Kate's writing before you met her. :-) It's just that you
guys have gone to such an effort to let everyone in the world know that
you're *together* now, and just perfect for each other, and havin' a
wonderful time... it's kinda like beating a dead horse, and it's no wonder
that some might think that you're saying this just 'cause you're an item.
Deal with it. ;-)
--
j...@sirius.com/ jenni...@aol.com/ rha...@marinet.lib.ca.us
"Cannot run out of time. Time is infinite. You are finite. Zathras is
finite. This... is wrong tool." -- Babylon 5, "War Without End"
...Darth Vader, Librarian: "If you only knew the power of the Dark
Side <heavy breathing>, you would return your books ON TIME."
<casually chokes patron> ;-)
Karen Guest
them better than the NAs. Really good reads are the following:
EMPIRE OF GLASS, SORCERER'S APPRENTICE, VENUSIAN LULLABY, DANCING THE
CODE, ROMANCE OF CRIME, ENGLISH WAY OF DEATH, SYSTEM SHOCK, and
MANAGRA. I would avoid categorically GHOSTS OF N-SPACE, CRYSTAL
BUCEPHALUS, and EVOLUTION.
I just read EYE OF THE GIANT. I read it in about 6 hours. It was
mind candy, what I needed when I was sick, but I was disappointed in
its lack of narrative tension. That book would have been better by
being about 50 pages shorter. The characterization was good, though,
with the Brigadier and Liz coming through particularly well.
Kate in Charlottesville
Jeffery Beuck
: I suggest that the problems with "Lords of the Storm" lie more in having
: to convert the video in to a book than his writing style.
I think you're confusing "Lords of the Storm" with "Shakedown."
Shakedown was the one which was novelized from a video (and rather
well, I thought). Lords of the Storm was the original novel which was
a "prelude" to Shakedown.
--
******************************************************************************
|) The Artist Formerly Known as Jeff
******************************************************************************
Henry Potts
: In article <4qsl6c$2...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
: Henry Potts <some...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
: >I suggest that the problems with "Lords of the Storm" lie more in having
: >to convert the video in to a book than his writing style.
: I assume you mean the novel of "Shakedown", right? "Lords of the Storm"
: wasn't based on a video (though there is a continuity reference to the
: Shakedown novel... none of this ties in to the on-screen "Shakedown",
: though, since neither the Rutan spy nor his mission is named on-screen.)
<grovel on>
You're right: I was getting the two mixed up.
<grovel off>
In which case, I rather have to agree that "Lords of the Storm" was simply
not particularly well written (IMHO).
Henry
(Damn. I hate it when facts get in the way of my posts...)
David McKinnon
>[my comments about Kate's writing snipped]
Brigadier Rogers:
>>Ah ha! But I bet you typed this while she held a gun to your head! <G>
Jon:
>*huge theatrical sigh* As I said...
>
>>>Regards,
>>>Jon Blum
>>>(who, to head off the inevitable comments, was this much of a Kate Orman
>>>fan even before we first met)
>
>Sheesh, I wonder how long before people start to say that, because I love
>Paul Cornell's work so much, that I must be having an affair with him on
>the side?
Tsk, tsk, Jon. Have you so easily forgotten that flamewar with Segonax?
These accusations are *years* old.
--David "Smartass" McKinnon
mcki...@math.berkeley.edu
David McKinnon
>Gads, I forgot all about O'Mahony. He's the finest writer Virgin have
>come up with yet. I'd go as far as to call him a genuine artist.
Really? Wow. It's amazing how different people's opinions can be.
I thought _Falls the Shadow_ was the worst NA I'd ever read. That may
be revised soon, but it's certainly true at the moment. (Note: I have not
read many of the worst-reviewed NAs, like _The Pit_, or _Timewyrm: Genesys_,
or _Deceit_.) I shall elaborate below.
[snip]
>Dan O'Mahony's got an extraordinarily individual style,
Well, OK, I'll agree with this. I just don't like it.
>perfect prose,
This is demonstrably false. If it were perfect, I would like it. I don't
like it. Therefore it is not perfect. (-:
IMHO, O'Mahony's prose is horribly overwritten. _Falls the Shadow_ was a
tortuous read for me, in part because the prose was difficult to digest.
>and a ridiculously fertile imagination.
Um, I guess I can agree with this too. I just don't like very many of his
ideas, is all.
>His books are real *novels*, unlike some of the NA/MAs.
Ah, now this seems a little tricky. What makes a book a real *novel*? I
always thought it was pages, binding, and a publisher's stamp.
What I objected to most about FtS, though, was the plot. There were *vast*
scenes in the book that were utterly pointless, and plot twists that were
utterly unmotivated. People complain about shutting Tegan and Turlough in
a crawlspace in "Terminus", but no one seems to mind that the Doctor was
shoved into an empty universe to get him out of the plot's way in FtS.
Why did Benny die? Why did she travel to the whatsit place when she died?
Why do talking statueheads rule the universe? Why is the Grey Guardian such
a powerless wuss? Why are Tanith and Gabriel written so powerfully that it
takes a deus ex machina, copout ending to defeat them?
IMHO, the plot of _Falls the Shadow_ is a poorly plotted, thinly disguised
excuse to torture the Doctor and his companions, as well as a few bonus
characters on the side. (Like me, for example. (-:) And if you want that,
why settle for _Falls the Shadow_ when you could read _Set Piece_ instead?
--David "Non-torture Man" McKinnon
mcki...@math.berkeley.edu
Martin Day
tessa.berkeley.edu> writes
>>Dan O'Mahony's got an extraordinarily individual style,
>
>Well, OK, I'll agree with this. I just don't like it.
>
>>perfect prose,
>
>This is demonstrably false. If it were perfect, I would like it. I don't
>like it. Therefore it is not perfect. (-:
Oh, ha ha ha.
>IMHO, the plot of _Falls the Shadow_ is a poorly plotted, thinly disguised
>excuse to torture the Doctor and his companions, as well as a few bonus
>characters on the side. (Like me, for example. (-:) And if you want that,
>why settle for _Falls the Shadow_ when you could read _Set Piece_ instead?
For what it's worth, I much preferred _Falls the Shadow_ (one of my top
five NAs) to _Set Piece_ (sorry, Kate). As you say, it does take all
sorts...
Martin Day <ma...@dial.pipex.com>
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/marty/
___________________________________________________
Everybody got Heaven
In God's Hotel.
So you'll never see scribbled on the bathroom wall
'Let Rosy get ya Heaven, dial 686-844!'
Nick Cave, 'God's Hotel', _King Ink_
___________________________________________________
Christopher Norman
: Christopher Norman:
: >Gads, I forgot all about O'Mahony. He's the finest writer Virgin have
: >come up with yet. I'd go as far as to call him a genuine artist.
: Really? Wow. It's amazing how different people's opinions can be.
: I thought _Falls the Shadow_ was the worst NA I'd ever read. That may
: be revised soon, but it's certainly true at the moment. (Note: I have not
: read many of the worst-reviewed NAs, like _The Pit_, or _Timewyrm: Genesys_,
: or _Deceit_.) I shall elaborate below.
: [snip]
: >Dan O'Mahony's got an extraordinarily individual style,
: Well, OK, I'll agree with this. I just don't like it.
: >perfect prose,
: This is demonstrably false. If it were perfect, I would like it. I don't
: like it. Therefore it is not perfect. (-:
: IMHO, O'Mahony's prose is horribly overwritten. _Falls the Shadow_ was a
: tortuous read for me, in part because the prose was difficult to digest.
My impressions are a bit coloured by The Man in the Velvet Mask, which is
even better than FtS. He's a bit more restrained in that one, although
the atmosphere is just as dark, so who knows if you'd like it any better.
: >and a ridiculously fertile imagination.
: Um, I guess I can agree with this too. I just don't like very many of his
: ideas, is all.
Well, there's the thing. I like "excess". I like extravagant
tour-de-forces of the imagination. That's what I thought FtS was. It's
a first novel, and unlike Velvet Mask, it's not "perfect", but I did find
it extraordinarily powerful, with a sort of possessed, visionary quality
that appealed to me (but not to everyone, I guess).
: >His books are real *novels*, unlike some of the NA/MAs.
: Ah, now this seems a little tricky. What makes a book a real *novel*? I
: always thought it was pages, binding, and a publisher's stamp.
Some NAs, while good enough, seem to me more like written-out-plotlines,
or an attempt to novelize an unwritten script, rather than a genuine
attempt to write a novel. I don't have the time to sit and think up all
the relevant jargon, so I can't explain the difference all that well. To
me, books like Legacy, Strange England, Tragedy Day, St. Anthony's Fire,
and some others, aren't exactly novels in the sense that the writer is
trying to come up with a good *novel* and not just a good Doctor Who
story, which IMO is what all those books are. That probably doesn't make
any sense to anyone, so I'll shut up.
: What I objected to most about FtS, though, was the plot. There were *vast*
: scenes in the book that were utterly pointless, and plot twists that were
: utterly unmotivated. People complain about shutting Tegan and Turlough in
: a crawlspace in "Terminus", but no one seems to mind that the Doctor was
: shoved into an empty universe to get him out of the plot's way in FtS.
: Why did Benny die? Why did she travel to the whatsit place when she died?
: Why do talking statueheads rule the universe? Why is the Grey Guardian such
: a powerless wuss? Why are Tanith and Gabriel written so powerfully that it
: takes a deus ex machina, copout ending to defeat them?
There are perfectly good reasons for all of these, and it's only the fact
that I'm afraid to admit I might be wrong that stops me from going home
and rereading the book and explaining all these things to you.
: IMHO, the plot of _Falls the Shadow_ is a poorly plotted, thinly disguised
: excuse to torture the Doctor and his companions, as well as a few bonus
: characters on the side. (Like me, for example. (-:) And if you want that,
: why settle for _Falls the Shadow_ when you could read _Set Piece_ instead?
Why not read both?
Kate Orman
Jonathan Blum <jb...@access5.digex.net> wrote:
[snip]
>Sheesh, I wonder how long before people start to say that, because I love
>Paul Cornell's work so much, that I must be having an affair with him on
>the side?
I'll scratch his eyes out!
Kate Orman
David McKinnon <mcki...@contessa.berkeley.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>IMHO, the plot of _Falls the Shadow_ is a poorly plotted, thinly disguised
>excuse to torture the Doctor and his companions, as well as a few bonus
>characters on the side. (Like me, for example. (-:) And if you want that,
>why settle for _Falls the Shadow_ when you could read _Set Piece_ instead?
"Thank you *very* much!" - Adam Colby. :-)
Brigadier Nathan Rogers
>In article <4qrn4n$h...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
>Brigadier Nathan Rogers <jlro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>jb...@access4.digex.net (Jonathan Blum) babbled:
>[my comments about Kate's writing snipped]
>>Ah ha! But I bet you typed this while she held a gun to your head! <G>
>*huge theatrical sigh* As I said...
it was a joke ;-> Never mind.
>>>Regards,
>>>Jon Blum
>>>(who, to head off the inevitable comments, was this much of a Kate Orman
>>>fan even before we first met)
>Sheesh, I wonder how long before people start to say that, because I love
>Paul Cornell's work so much, that I must be having an affair with him on
>the side?
You are? A love triangle? <vbg>
Don't worry I won't tell anyone
>Regards,
>Jon Blum
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>"All this time you two thought you were playing some twisted game of
>chess... when it was just me playing solitaire!"
> D O C T O R W H O : T I M E R I F T
--
Christopher D. Heer
(ggr...@mcs.dundee.ac.uk) says...
>Christopher Norman wrote:
>> Maybe I'm just not critical enough, but almost every NA I've read has had
>> something to offer me. I'd say avoid David McIntee's books
>Permit me to entirely disagree with that and say that you should read
>David McIntee's books. He's had his off-moments but on the whole he's
>rather good - I'd certainly put him somewhere in the top three NA
>writers.
Particularly if you're the sort that drinks too much caffeine or suffers from
insomnia.
--
Christopher D. Heer: Vice President & CoFounder of| ch...@us.oracle.com
the William Sasso Fan Club! Bring Pete to Visions!| The cheer-o-meter
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those | says today Chris is
of Oracle Corp. Not that I've asked, of course. | in: Chicago, IL!
R.J. Smith
> [snip]
>>Dan O'Mahony's got an extraordinarily individual style,
>Well, OK, I'll agree with this. I just don't like it.
>>perfect prose,
>This is demonstrably false. If it were perfect, I would like it. I don't
>like it. Therefore it is not perfect. (-:
Actually, Dave, here you're proceeding from a demonstrably false
premise... :-)
- Robert Smith?
Colonel X
>IMHO, the plot of _Falls the Shadow_ is a poorly plotted, thinly disguised
>excuse to torture the Doctor and his companions, as well as a few bonus
>characters on the side. (Like me, for example. (-:) And if you want that,
>why settle for _Falls the Shadow_ when you could read _Set Piece_ instead?
Because _Set Piece_ doesn't have Sapphire and Steel in it, and _Falls
the Shadow_ almost does.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
On assignment in Athens, Georgia,
Colonel X.
Expect the unexpected.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dwain Gleason
(Ben Aaronovitch) wrote:
> dgol...@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (David GOLDING) wrote:
>
>
> >There are numerous other suggestions I have, but most of all, read Ben
> >Aaronovitch. His books are hands down the best stuff in the entire range.
> >Brilliant pieces of work.
>
> I agree entirely, buy all the NA's by Ben Aaronovitch, in fact buy two
> copies of each book (in case you lose one).
>
> Buy all your friends Aaronovitch's books as well. give them away at
> parties. Write to Virgin and insist they give him a bigger percentage
> of the gross.
I bought a box of each. They make excellent jumbo beverage coasters (most
of my books seem to end up that way, somehow) and boy do they make
terrific stocking stuffers at Christmastime. And nothing says, "I love
you," like the gift of a Ben Aaronovitch book.
I write "With fondest memories, Glenda" and send them to randomly selected
addresses from the phone directory as well. I've left a couple in the
waiting room at the Doctor's and Dentist's offices, and of course generous
donations of numerous Aaronovitch books have been made to local library
systems around the country in the name of other NA authors. ("With love,
Kate." "Best wishes, John." And so on.)
Support your friendly author today...think of new and creative ways to
create royalties! :)
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Dwain Gleason dgle...@sky.net |
| WhoLINK: http://www.sky.net/~dgleason/wholink.html |
| "Logic...only allows one to be wrong with authority" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Henry Potts
: In article <4qv0uf$r...@agate.berkeley.edu> mcki...@contessa.berkeley.edu (David McKinnon) writes:
: >IMHO, the plot of _Falls the Shadow_ is a poorly plotted, thinly disguised
: >excuse to torture the Doctor and his companions, as well as a few bonus
: >characters on the side. (Like me, for example. (-:) And if you want that,
: >why settle for _Falls the Shadow_ when you could read _Set Piece_ instead?
: Because _Set Piece_ doesn't have Sapphire and Steel in it, and _Falls
: the Shadow_ almost does.
If I might ask, where?
Henry
DANIEL BEN-ZVI
> Colonel X (GOG...@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU) wrote:
> : In article <4qv0uf$r...@agate.berkeley.edu> mcki...@contessa.berkeley.edu (David McKinnon) writes:
(snip arguement of Set Piece vs. Falls The Shadow)
> : Because _Set Piece_ doesn't have Sapphire and Steel in it, and _Falls
> : the Shadow_ almost does.
> If I might ask, where?
Daniel O'Mahony, who wrote Falls The Shadow, has admitted in interviews
that the characters of Tanith and Gabriel in Falls The Shadow are
basically Sapphire and Steel gone psychotic.
TTFN,
Dan Ben-Zvi
Christopher D. Heer
In article <4qpsa7$2...@relay-2.mail.sonnet.co.uk>, Ben Aaronovitch
(b...@nomsa.sonnet.co.uk) says...
>dgol...@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (David GOLDING) wrote:
>>There are numerous other suggestions I have, but most of all, read Ben
>>Aaronovitch. His books are hands down the best stuff in the entire range.
>>Brilliant pieces of work.
>I agree entirely, buy all the NA's by Ben Aaronovitch, in fact buy two
>copies of each book (in case you lose one).
>Buy all your friends Aaronovitch's books as well. give them away at
>parties. Write to Virgin and insist they give him a bigger percentage
>of the gross.
>Sorry.
>Ran out of money again.
>(VO) Get back to work!
:)
Can you imagine a Transit party, then? Gad, the guests.
On a more serious note, I'd like to say that (a) I really liked Transit, and
felt that from a structural standpoint it's still one of the stronger books in
the line, and (b) I really really enjoyed The Also People, and in particular
God, and (c) I will pay cold hard cash for a preview copy of So Vile a Sin. :)
Alden Bates
Jonathan Blum (jb...@access5.digex.net) writes:
>Sheesh, I wonder how long before people start to say that, because I love
>Paul Cornell's work so much, that I must be having an affair with him on
>the side?
<glances at watch> Three minutes and counting.
Alden Bates.
--
___ ___ ___ ___
/ V \ / V \
| .^. .^. | .^. .^. |
| | |_| |_|_| |_| | |
_| |_ Memento _| |_
|_ _| Mori II |_ _|
|_| Coming soon |_|
Daniel Frankham
A few opinions:
MAs:
1) Venusian Lullaby by Paul Leonard
(my first Virgin - well, the first I finished :p)
1st Doctor, Ian & Barbara
I loved this one. It was more like my memories of reading those
old David Whitaker novelisations (which I loved) than watching the
series. There's a genuine feel of a couple of fairly ordinary
people exploring a genuinely strange new world, making it feel
rather old-fashioned as a piece of sf - CS Lewis's Out of the
Silent Planet comes to mind - but it works as early Who. This is
something the early series tried to do, but perhaps never
succeeded at quite as well as this does. (Web Planet could have if
it had had a much higher budget...) The Doctor's dialogue was good
- though without any "hmms" or fluffs, which I found disappointing
- that *is* part of the 1st Doctor's character, whether it was
intended or not - while Ian and Barbara were spot on.
2) The Empire of Glass by Andy Lane
1st Doctor, Steven and Vicki
I liked this one a lot, too. (I tend not to finish them if I
don't, and I don't like to review something I haven't finished.)
There's a reappearance of a character from previous books (I
think) which I haven't read - and that was no problem at all. The
companions are given very interesting treatments - the author
seems to be trying to inject hitherto hidden depths into these
rather-bland-on-TV characters. Esp. fun is the notion that Vicki
was only putting on that "silly girl" persona :)
In the early chapters the Doctor's dialogue switches into a kind
of "history textbook" mode a couple of times, but for the most
part is authentic-sounding. I'm afraid I didn't find Galileo very
convincing as Galileo, but he's an interesting character anyway...
And the bits with Steven & Marlowe had some very interesting
undercurrents which we'd have never seen in the TV series :)
3) The Romance of Crime by Gareth Roberts
More season 17 than season 17 (except maybe Nightmare of Eden :p),
this one is a lot of fun. I enjoyed it a lot while I was reading
it, but found it strangely unsatisfying... like I'd just eaten a
very large pizza, and still felt like a sack of M&Ms. Perhaps
that's just a season 17 thing? (Or an eating disorder?) And it's a
bit hard to take the Ogrons as comedy characters when they've just
killed a couple of hundred people... I'd still recommend it,
though. (And everyone else seems to like it.)
NAs:
4) Set Piece by Kate Orman
The opening (I suspect it may have been a "proposal"'s sample
chapters) is among the best bits of Who writing I've seen,
including the series. It's well worth reading just for this bit.
This is a very well-structured novel, with as much of the suspense
coming from waiting to find out what's already happened as what's
going to (without being at all pretentious or elitist :p).
Everyone splits up and gets their own bit of story - of which I'm
afraid I found Ace's adventures a wee bit dull... but then so did
she, so perhaps they were supposed to be, in a way? And it was
nice to see a novel set in a couple of fascinating historical
periods which the series has never visited before.
There's a major character who was introduced in a past NA which I
haven't read, but this didn't seem to be much of a hindrance to
understanding or enjoying the novel. (Though perhaps a simple
glossary explaining reappearing elements in the back of future
books would reduce this risk?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Frankham dan...@senet.com.au
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We're all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars (O Wilde)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Matthewman
Henry Potts wrote:
>
> Colonel X (GOG...@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU) wrote:
> : In article <4qv0uf$r...@agate.berkeley.edu> mcki...@contessa.berkeley.edu (David McKinnon) writes:
> : >excuse to torture the Doctor and his companions, as well as a few bonus
> : >characters on the side. (Like me, for example. (-:) And if you want that,
> : >why settle for _Falls the Shadow_ when you could read _Set Piece_ instead?
>
> : the Shadow_ almost does.
>
> If I might ask, where?
>
The Grey Man had more than a little of Steel about him (though even more of
Silver). The whole set up was very Sapphire and Steel-ish and, depending
on your point of view, you could even see Tanith and Gabriel as Sapphire
and Steel (though I like to think of them as two of the Transuranics).
Mind you, the Darkness was in Nightshade a little more blatantly.
(Yes, I *know* I owe alt.drwho.creative the rest of my S&S story, but
it's been a busy year...)-;
--
David Matthewman da...@cconcepts.co.uk/da...@xara.com
import std.disclaimer.Xara; // "Never tell the same lie twice" - Garak, DS9
Kate Orman
In article <4r8voh$r...@clams.camtech.com.au>,
Daniel Frankham <dan...@senet.com.au> wrote:
[snip]
>4) Set Piece by Kate Orman
>
>The opening (I suspect it may have been a "proposal"'s sample
>chapters)
*coughs embarassedly*
R.J. Smith
>4) Set Piece by Kate Orman
>There's a major character who was introduced in a past NA which I
>haven't read, but this didn't seem to be much of a hindrance to
>understanding or enjoying the novel. (Though perhaps a simple
>glossary explaining reappearing elements in the back of future
>books would reduce this risk?) [*]
[*] See 'Doctor Who and the Transit' by Ben Aaronovitch.
- Robert Smith?
R.J. Smith
In article <4qpsa7$2...@relay-2.mail.sonnet.co.uk>,
Ben Aaronovitch <b...@nomsa.sonnet.co.uk> wrote:
>dgol...@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (David GOLDING) wrote:
>>There are numerous other suggestions I have, but most of all, read Ben
>>Aaronovitch. His books are hands down the best stuff in the entire range.
>>Brilliant pieces of work.
>I agree entirely, buy all the NA's by Ben Aaronovitch, in fact buy two
>copies of each book (in case you lose one).
>Buy all your friends Aaronovitch's books as well. give them away at
>parties. Write to Virgin and insist they give him a bigger percentage
>of the gross.
der mista aarownowhgkftch,
i realy liked you're books. but pleese send me another becuase the table
is still unstedy.
Tre Hellman
In article <4r8voh$r...@clams.camtech.com.au>, dan...@senet.com.au (Daniel
Frankham) wrote:
>(my first Virgin - well, the first I finished :p)
Daniel,
Lines like that at the beginning of a review make the rest of it, well,
unreadable.
Tre.
some wondering how many virgins he couldn't finish and what their status
was afterward guy.
Daniel Frankham
t...@quake.net (Tre Hellman) begat these words:
>Daniel,
I don't know what you mean! It's a perfectly innocent turn of
phrase.
All it says is that I stopped before they reached their climaxes.
I don't know, some people just have smutty minds, I reckon :)