S7E14 The Name of the Doctor

Agamemnon

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May 18, 2013, 7:40:37 PM5/18/13

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Brilliant episode.

<SPOILERS>

Do not read until you've watched the season finale.

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Great performance from Matt Smith. Good ones too from the other cast members
especially Richard E. Grant.

Lot's of clips from previous episodes from the classic series. Didn't manage
to spot David Tennant. Not sure if I spotted Paul McGann. Peter Davison's
appearance came from Four to Doomsday, Sylvester McCoy's from Dragonfire,
Jon Pertwee came from The Five Doctors. Need to watch it again to work out
the rest.

Going back to Gallifray to do a prequel about why the Doctor left seems to
have been ruled out now, otherwise Clara will have to be in it, unless she's
some kind of projection that the Doctor can't see but can influence his
mind, otherwise how come he didn't recognise her the moment he say her in
The Snowmen?

River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established that
she's a Time Lord and the Master and Rassilon were brought back from the
Matrix and the Library computer is similar to that then she could be brought
back the same way.

The next question is, is this going to stay as the Doctor's final resting
place or will he end up changing his timeline and rewriting his future so
that it's not?

As is now the norm in the new series the assistant is expected to sacrifice
themselves in order to save the Doctor and not the other way round like in
The Caves of Androzani.

If Clara now knows who she was before as well as who all the first 11
Doctors were, then does she also know the Doctor's name, although this
episode wasn't actually about the name of the Doctor but everything that was
in the name of the Doctor.

In the final twist at the end John Hurt is introduced as the Doctor. The
question is, is he going to be playing the first incarnation of the Valayard
since the Valayard was mentioned by the Great Intelligence or is he going to
be some sort of projection like the Watcher? The only problem with being the
Valayard is that he's between the Doctors 12th and 13th regenerations they'd
have to explain why he's a regeneration early. In either case whoever his
is, whatever he does won't be in the Doctor's name. The Doctor may have
recognised him from his 10th incarnation since both Matt Smith and David
Tennant are in the anniversary special, unless he's taken a look further
down his time line and knows what's going to happen next. On the other hand
he might actually be from the Doctor's past from before he left Gallifrey
and call himself the Doctor as I was beginning to think at first.

10/10

Looking forward to the anniversery special now.

jgharston

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May 19, 2013, 8:08:01 AM5/19/13

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Agamemnon wrote:
> Brilliant episode.
> <SPOILERS>
> Do not read until you've watched the season finale.
>
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> !
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> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
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> !
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> !
>

> Going back to Gallifray to do a prequel about why the Doctor left seems to
> have been ruled out now

My thought at the clip of the 1st Doctor and Susan stealing the TARDIS
was: shouldn't he have looked a bit younger? How long were they
traveling before we encountered them in Foreman's Junk Yard?

> In the final twist at the end John Hurt is introduced as the Doctor. The
> question is, is he going to be playing the first incarnation of the Valayard
> since the Valayard was mentioned by the Great Intelligence or is he going to
> be some sort of projection like the Watcher? The only problem with being the
> Valayard is that he's between the Doctors 12th and 13th regenerations they'd
> have to explain why he's a regeneration early.

He could still be between 12 and 13, just because 11 encountered him
doesn't mean he has to be 11+half, he could be 12+half, even 13! Hold
on, 13 is in the tomb - ah, but the graveyard contains images of all
13 doctors, so that's the image of the final doctor whose "mortal
remains" are in the tomb.

However, about ten minutes in I did glance at the TV guide to see how
long the episode was going to be as there seemed to be too much plot
building up to fit into 45 minutes. It could certainly have done with
being a one-hour special.

JGH

Mark Evans

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May 19, 2013, 8:07:16 AM5/19/13

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Considering the costumes they showed her in I was thinking something along
the lines of "Quantum Leap". So that The Doctor (and anyone else) would see
Susan, Sarah Jane, Ace, etc.

> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established that

Possibly an android (or Tesselector) body.

> she's a Time Lord and the Master and Rassilon were brought back from the
> Matrix and the Library computer is similar to that then she could be brought
> back the same way.

Presumably they had The Master's DNA/Biodata stored as well as his conciousness.
With Rassilon never being dead in the first place.

> The next question is, is this going to stay as the Doctor's final resting
> place or will he end up changing his timeline and rewriting his future so
> that it's not?
>
> As is now the norm in the new series the assistant is expected to sacrifice
> themselves in order to save the Doctor and not the other way round like in
> The Caves of Androzani.
>
> If Clara now knows who she was before as well as who all the first 11
> Doctors were, then does she also know the Doctor's name, although this
> episode wasn't actually about the name of the Doctor but everything that was
> in the name of the Doctor.
>
> In the final twist at the end John Hurt is introduced as the Doctor. The
> question is, is he going to be playing the first incarnation of the Valayard
> since the Valayard was mentioned by the Great Intelligence or is he going to
> be some sort of projection like the Watcher? The only problem with being the
> Valayard is that he's between the Doctors 12th and 13th regenerations they'd
> have to explain why he's a regeneration early. In either case whoever his
> is, whatever he does won't be in the Doctor's name. The Doctor may have
> recognised him from his 10th incarnation since both Matt Smith and David
> Tennant are in the anniversary special, unless he's taken a look further
> down his time line and knows what's going to happen next. On the other hand
> he might actually be from the Doctor's past from before he left Gallifrey
> and call himself the Doctor as I was beginning to think at first.

My theory is that John Hurt is between Paul McGann and Christopher Eccleston.
The incarnation involved in the time war. Which ties up with the book Clara
read his name in. (There's also an obvious parallel with Joran Dax from ST:DS9).

Stephen Wilson

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May 19, 2013, 8:23:26 AM5/19/13

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"Agamemnon" <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:m7WdnUeLU73ojAXM...@eclipse.net.uk...

>
> Great performance from Matt Smith. Good ones too from the other cast
> members especially Richard E. Grant.

Yeah. Until he disappeared.

> Lot's of clips from previous episodes from the classic series. Didn't
> manage to spot David Tennant. Not sure if I spotted Paul McGann. Peter
> Davison's appearance came from Four to Doomsday, Sylvester McCoy's from
> Dragonfire, Jon Pertwee came from The Five Doctors. Need to watch it again
> to work out the rest.

Why did seeing any of those clips make the story any good? There was no
interaction between the Great Intelligence or Clara. We saw a few clips of
the Doctor. But so what? The only one which seemed to be relevant was Clara
with the first Doctor. In that, she pointed him to the right TARDIS. But if
Clara hadn't been there, then the proper course would have been for the
Doctor to have picked the faulty TARDIS, in which case he'd never have got
to meet Clara. Grandfather paradox all over! Literally in this case.

Talking of Clara, when she got split into a million copies, this must mean
there are a million Claras scattered through time and space. Strange we've
only seen 2 of them - and those 2 seemed to have real lives, and neither
recognised the Doctor or knew what they were meant to be doing. And what
happens to these copies once they've done their jobs? Are they all
genetically identical? In which case does this mean they've replaced other
babies in the wombs of their mothers?

> Going back to Gallifray to do a prequel about why the Doctor left seems to
> have been ruled out now, otherwise Clara will have to be in it, unless
> she's some kind of projection that the Doctor can't see but can influence
> his mind, otherwise how come he didn't recognise her the moment he say her
> in The Snowmen?

I don't believe there were any plans to do a prequel - apart from a propsed
spinoff a few years ago about a teenage Doctor that RTD (thankfully) vetoed.

> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established
> that she's a Time Lord and the Master and Rassilon were brought back from
> the Matrix and the Library computer is similar to that then she could be
> brought back the same way.

I've still no idea how/why she turned up. If she could do so this easily,
why hasn't she done so before?

> The next question is, is this going to stay as the Doctor's final resting
> place or will he end up changing his timeline and rewriting his future so
> that it's not?

I doubt Moffat's given it a second thought.

> As is now the norm in the new series the assistant is expected to
> sacrifice themselves in order to save the Doctor and not the other way
> round like in The Caves of Androzani.

Except the assistant doesn't, does she? The only time one has actually died
was Clara - and it's now been revealed they were only copes.

> If Clara now knows who she was before as well as who all the first 11
> Doctors were, then does she also know the Doctor's name, although this
> episode wasn't actually about the name of the Doctor but everything that
> was in the name of the Doctor.

Who knows? Another loose thread that will probably never be resolved.

> In the final twist at the end John Hurt is introduced as the Doctor. The
> question is, is he going to be playing the first incarnation of the
> Valayard since the Valayard was mentioned by the Great Intelligence or is
> he going to be some sort of projection like the Watcher? The only problem
> with being the Valayard is that he's between the Doctors 12th and 13th
> regenerations they'd have to explain why he's a regeneration early. In
> either case whoever his is, whatever he does won't be in the Doctor's
> name. The Doctor may have recognised him from his 10th incarnation since
> both Matt Smith and David Tennant are in the anniversary special, unless
> he's taken a look further down his time line and knows what's going to
> happen next. On the other hand he might actually be from the Doctor's past
> from before he left Gallifrey and call himself the Doctor as I was
> beginning to think at first.

He won't be the Valeyard. I'm not going to try and second-guess Moffat's
thinking on this one. But seems to me like he'll be Moffat's equivalent of
the Valeyard.

> 10/10

Irrelevant score.

> Looking forward to the anniversery special now.

Another 6 months to go. I do hope it's a little more special than this
was...

Agamemnon

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May 19, 2013, 3:23:55 PM5/19/13

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"Mark Evans" <m...@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ksrm6a-...@server.anacon.no-ip.org...

That would work for Dalek Oswin/Clara but not for Victorian Clara.

>
>> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
>> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
>> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established
>> that
>
> Possibly an android (or Tesselector) body.

That would have obvious limitations, like not being able to consummate their
marriage properly.

>
>> she's a Time Lord and the Master and Rassilon were brought back from the
>> Matrix and the Library computer is similar to that then she could be
>> brought
>> back the same way.
>
> Presumably they had The Master's DNA/Biodata stored as well as his
> conciousness.
> With Rassilon never being dead in the first place.

They expressly said that Rassilon was brought back the same way as the
Master.

Possible since Eccleston declined taking part in the anniversary special and
if it's being set during the Time War.

Agamemnon

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May 19, 2013, 3:33:30 PM5/19/13

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"jgharston" <j...@mdfs.net> wrote in message
news:90e841fd-2b78-4f02...@q8g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

I thought that was well.

> traveling before we encountered them in Foreman's Junk Yard?

Looks like they went there straight away and since the Police Box must have
been the first form that TARDIS took after looking like a cylinder to begin
with because the Chameleon Circuit was broke.

>
>> In the final twist at the end John Hurt is introduced as the Doctor. The
>> question is, is he going to be playing the first incarnation of the
>> Valayard
>> since the Valayard was mentioned by the Great Intelligence or is he going
>> to
>> be some sort of projection like the Watcher? The only problem with being
>> the
>> Valayard is that he's between the Doctors 12th and 13th regenerations
>> they'd
>> have to explain why he's a regeneration early.
>
> He could still be between 12 and 13, just because 11 encountered him
> doesn't mean he has to be 11+half, he could be 12+half, even 13! Hold
> on, 13 is in the tomb - ah, but the graveyard contains images of all

It could actually be 11 in the tomb since Clara only saw 11 Doctors. Why not
the other 2?

The Doctor

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May 19, 2013, 4:34:59 PM5/19/13

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In article <sOKdnYsfb8-VtATM...@eclipse.net.uk>,

Flashbacks include

Hartnell
Troughton
Pertwee
TBaker
Davison
CBaker
McCoy

I do not recall seeing doctoros passed that.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
The false churches will conform themselves to this world's demands, seeing as they do not fear and thus do not obey God. - anon

Your Name

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May 19, 2013, 5:18:06 PM5/19/13

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In article
<90e841fd-2b78-4f02...@q8g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,

TV shows are mostly made to fit within network time schedules of "1/2 an
hour" and "1 hour" (including adverts). The best that could happen is that
it would have to be a two-part episode.

Stephen Wilson

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May 19, 2013, 5:17:22 PM5/19/13

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"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:knbd1j$pd5$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...

I've no idea who doctoros is. And what do you not recall doctoros passing?

Agamemnon

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May 19, 2013, 5:19:31 PM5/19/13

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"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:knbd1j$pd5$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...

Think we saw the back or side of number 8 and the back or side of number 9.
Don't remember seeing David Tennant's Doctor.

Stephen Wilson

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May 19, 2013, 5:32:29 PM5/19/13

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"Agamemnon" <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message

news:ZsmdndfWJLx-3ATM...@eclipse.net.uk...

No, I don't think we did. Maybe they felt it wasn't necessary because he'll
be in the next episode. Or maybe because it's not so long since he played
the part. Maybe even because he's linked to the Hurt Doctor, although I
doubt it as Clara said she saw all 10 of his past incarnations.

Stephen Wilson

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May 19, 2013, 5:46:34 PM5/19/13

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"Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote in message
news:YourName-200...@203-118-187-22.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz...

TV shows in Britain aren't, and never have been. And the BBC has never had
adverts. But because Dr Who is one of its best sellers, modern Dr Who is
made as 45 minute episodes to pander to oversea networks which pad it out to
1 hour with the inclusion of adverts.

But even during Tennant's era, several episodes exceeded 45 minutes -
probably because RTD was able to stand his ground and insist that those
episodes could not be edited down any further. And the specials varied
anywhere between 60 minutes and 75 minutes.

Agamemnon

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May 19, 2013, 5:59:23 PM5/19/13

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"Stephen Wilson" <stephen.w...@nospam.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Sxbmt.18119$KM4....@newsfe25.iad...

Maybe the John Hurt Doctor is the older version of the David Tennant Doctor
on the parallel Earth?

Stephen Wilson

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May 19, 2013, 6:03:11 PM5/19/13

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"Agamemnon" <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message

news:sOKdnYsfb8-VtATM...@eclipse.net.uk...

>>
>> He could still be between 12 and 13, just because 11 encountered him
>> doesn't mean he has to be 11+half, he could be 12+half, even 13! Hold
>> on, 13 is in the tomb - ah, but the graveyard contains images of all
>
> It could actually be 11 in the tomb since Clara only saw 11 Doctors. Why
> not the other 2?

And this was another part of the problem. Clara saw 11 Doctors. We saw a
montage of clips showing Clara with past Doctors. All the fanboys get
excited. But the idea was half-baked. The idea was that Clara was meant to
have saved each of them from the damage the Great Intelligence was
inflicting on them. We never got to see the Great Intelligence at work - how
it was attacking the Doctor. We never got to see how Clara stopped it. The
only scene that had any detail was Clara directing the first Doctor and
Susan to an alternative TARDIS. So are we meant to assume it was the Great
Intelligence that tried to get them into the other TARDIS? On the other
hand, doesn't that entire scene completely contradict "the Doctor's Wife"
which was only broadcast 2 years ago? In that, it was claimed that the
Doctor and the TARDIS selected each other...

No, we don't need to be explicitly shown every single tiny little detail.
But enough to join the dots would be nice every now and then.

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May 19, 2013, 11:08:44 PM5/19/13

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In article <ZsmdndfWJLx-3ATM...@eclipse.net.uk>,

Point well taken good sir.

The Doctor

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May 19, 2013, 11:11:44 PM5/19/13

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In article <Sxbmt.18119$KM4....@newsfe25.iad>,

Something in that time line is a mystery. 6 months to ponder.

The Doctor

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May 19, 2013, 11:12:53 PM5/19/13

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In article <YourName-200...@203-118-187-46.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,

Touche.

May 21, 2013, 12:37:03 PM5/21/13

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"Ross" <rras...@trenchcoatsoft.com> wrote in message
news:be88b0e2-6396-479f...@v9g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...

Ooh, does that me we can also blame the Great Intelligence for the Billy
fluffs, wobbling scenery, dodgy CSO, Keff McCulloch's music, Richard Briers
as the caretaker, etc?

>(And contrarywise, every too-easy save, every plot that goes the
>Doctor's way because of dumb luck, every time the Doctor gets out of
>mortal peril by just deciding to stand up and not drown or whatever,
>that's Because Clara Oswald)

So that will include every trained soldier, Dalek, etc that's taken a
potshot and missed...

Hmm. Maybe we need to extend this idea. James Bond needs similar
explanations, eg how he survived the waterfall and dropping through an
iced-over pond in Skyfall, etc... Of course, as James Bond has many
different appearances, it could be argued that "James Bond" is just a name
adopted by many different agents over the years... or that he's really a
Time Lord.

�G�l�k Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian

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May 30, 2013, 7:40:10 AM5/30/13

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On Sun, 19 May 2013 00:40:37 +0100, in rec.arts.drwho "Agamemnon" <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

�Brilliant episode.

�
�<SPOILERS>
�
�Do not read until you've watched the season finale.
�
�!

�
�Great performance from Matt Smith. Good ones too from the other cast members

�

Valyard is far from right especially to those who recognize this Time War crap, but he also looked nothing like that
and it was a prosecutorial title, oh it was destroyed before the temporal anomole was given the Doctor's lives by the High Council.

Merlin is a name not to have come up at all since Battlefield was it? He was recognized but in another aspect, perhaps he kills the
guy and leaves himself a note. Then gets stuck in ice.

Also what he did in some cases could be in the name of the Celestial Intelligence Agency, his people, et al.... not just a name of personal
distinction. Name of Earth (mother's planet).

Brian

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May 30, 2013, 10:03:44 AM5/30/13

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"Agamemnon" <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> Brilliant episode.
>
> <SPOILERS>
>
> Do not read until you've watched the season finale.
>
> !

Just seen it broadcasted in my country.

What interested me was that the first doctor was in colour in 'The name of
the Doctor' story
Far as I know all episodes of the first doctor was recorded in black and
white so I suspect it was coloured.

--
Regards Brian

Stephen Wilson

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May 30, 2013, 12:31:49 PM5/30/13

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"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1550117758391615175....@free.teranews.com...

No shit, Sherlock! There was a brief clip of a lookalike but the main clip
was taken from the Aztecs. There are better examples of what can be done by
fans on YouTube (look up Babelcolour).

solar penguin

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May 30, 2013, 2:24:52 PM5/30/13

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On Thu, 30 May 2013 17:31:49 +0100, Stephen Wilson wrote:

>
> No shit, Sherlock! There was a brief clip of a lookalike but the main
> clip was taken from the Aztecs. There are better examples of what can be
> done by fans on YouTube

I've seen Laurel & Hardy shorts that were colourised better than the
Hartnell clip. That's how bad it was.

> (look up Babelcolour).

The Doctor

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May 30, 2013, 2:54:32 PM5/30/13

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In article <1550117758391615175....@free.teranews.com>,

Computer colourisatino I think.

>--
>Regards Brian

Your Name

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May 30, 2013, 5:06:52 PM5/30/13

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In article <ko85hk$vmt$1...@dont-email.me>, solar penguin

<solar....@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 May 2013 17:31:49 +0100, Stephen Wilson wrote:
> >
> > No shit, Sherlock! There was a brief clip of a lookalike but the main
> > clip was taken from the Aztecs. There are better examples of what can be
> > done by fans on YouTube

> > (look up Babelcolour).

>
> I've seen Laurel & Hardy shorts that were colourised better than the
> Hartnell clip. That's how bad it was.

Most of the old inserts weren't very well done, but then it is TV, so
there's not a massive budget for such things and the original footage
wasn't brilliant quality to start with.

Ross

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May 31, 2013, 9:29:21 PM5/31/13

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On May 30, 5:06 pm, YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name) wrote:
> In article <ko85hk$vm...@dont-email.me>, solar penguin

All the old footage she's been inserted into is done slightly
clumsily, and the strange composite of her in the park with stand-ins
running past her dressed as previous doctors is even clumsier. I
suspect that it's not that they screwed up, I think they were
deliberately going for an artistic effect to make it seem less like
"This is those bits of the Doctor's past brought back to life before
your eyes" and more like "Clara really has been surgically inserted
back into past *episodes of Doctor Who*," and therefore she's inserted
as if she'd been inserted into the original footage at the time, using
the same techniques they would have used when that footage was shot,
so poorly-done CSO for the 70s stuff, and hand-colorized film insets
for the 60s stuff. Maybe even a stock Video Toaster effect for the
80s. It all goes hand-in-hand with the idea from last season that the
"Oldest question in the universe" is the one that was first asked by
TV viewers on November 23, 1963. And it also ties in with having the
credits step through the fourth wall in the last scene. For the
fiftieth anniversary of the show, Moffatt is playing with the
boundaries between the in-universe world and the out-of-universe
world. Which is actually sort of in keeping with the early days of the
program too (Like, remember: the very first time The Doctor has to
explain how the TARDIS can be bigger on the inside than the outside,
he compares it to the way you can see a whole world *inside a
television*.)

solar penguin

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Jun 1, 2013, 4:01:23 AM6/1/13

to

Ross wrote:

>
> All the old footage she's been inserted into is done slightly
> clumsily, and the strange composite of her in the park with stand-ins
> running past her dressed as previous doctors is even clumsier. I
> suspect that it's not that they screwed up, I think they were
> deliberately going for an artistic effect to make it seem less like
> "This is those bits of the Doctor's past brought back to life before
> your eyes" and more like "Clara really has been surgically inserted
> back into past *episodes of Doctor Who*," and therefore she's inserted
> as if she'd been inserted into the original footage at the time, using
> the same techniques they would have used when that footage was shot,

So why wasn't the Hartnell scene in pure black-and-white with obvious
use of a Hartnell lookalike who looks northing like Hartnell at all?

> so poorly-done CSO for the 70s stuff, and hand-colorized film insets
> for the 60s stuff.

Have you ever seen old, hand-coloured film? The colours literally
have to be painted onto each frame at a time, so they're not
consistent from frame to frame, and seem to flicker and move with a
life of their own.

The colours in the Hartnell scene didn't do that. It was more like a
very crappy computer colourisation. Because it was a crappy computer
colourisation.

> Maybe even a stock Video Toaster effect for the
> 80s. It all goes hand-in-hand with the idea from last season that the
> "Oldest question in the universe" is the one that was first asked by
> TV viewers on November 23, 1963. And it also ties in with having the
> credits step through the fourth wall in the last scene. For the
> fiftieth anniversary of the show, Moffatt is playing with the
> boundaries between the in-universe world and the out-of-universe
> world. Which is actually sort of in keeping with the early days of the
> program too (Like, remember: the very first time The Doctor has to
> explain how the TARDIS can be bigger on the inside than the outside,
> he compares it to the way you can see a whole world *inside a
> television*.)

I'll believe you if the special ends with Smith wishing a happy
anniversary to all of us at home!

TB

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Sep 28, 2016, 9:45:30 PM9/28/16

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The Great Intelligence has psychic powers. It must have fogged the Doctor's mind!

The Doctor

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Sep 29, 2016, 7:59:39 AM9/29/16

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In article <bebb1a88-641a-44af...@googlegroups.com>,

How?
--
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Time for the USA to hold a referendum on its republic and vote to dissolve!!

Tim Bruening

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Oct 15, 2016, 7:40:48 PM10/15/16

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Great moments: The First Doctor and Susan stealing a TARDIS, and Clara warning him that he was about to make a terrible mistake. What was the mistake?

A criminal telling Vastra that "The Doctor has a secret that he will take to the grave, and it is discovered".

Vastra calling a cross-temporal tele conference.

Tim Bruening

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Oct 15, 2016, 7:50:29 PM10/15/16

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Strax asking his sparring partner to knock him out so that he can attend the conference. Strax thought that it would take a while, but his sparring partner knocked him out instantly with a shovel blow to the top of the head. I had thought that the probic vent in the back of the head was the only vulnerable point!

The Doctor

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Oct 15, 2016, 8:04:40 PM10/15/16

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In article <a6cfa054-0051-4ed0...@googlegroups.com>,

The start of a grand trilogy!

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Oct 16, 2016, 12:09:12 AM10/16/16

to

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> "Mark Evans" <m...@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ksrm6a-...@server.anacon.no-ip.org...

> > Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.no_spam> wrote:

> >
> >> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
> >> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
> >> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established
> >> that
> >

> > Possibly an android (or Tesselector) body.
>
> That would have obvious limitations, like not being able to consummate their
> marriage properly.

Can't androids or Tesselectors be equipped with vaginas?

I would clone River Song and download her memories from the Library Computer.

Tim Bruening

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Oct 16, 2016, 12:13:39 AM10/16/16

to

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 6:19:13 PM UTC-7, Your Name wrote:
> In article <Gjbmt.24522$JB5....@newsfe26.iad>, "Stephen Wilson"
> <stephen.w...@nospam.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
> > news:knbd1j$pd5$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> > >
> > > Flashbacks include
> > >
> > > Hartnell
> > > Troughton
> > > Pertwee
> > > TBaker
> > > Davison
> > > CBaker
> > > McCoy
> > >
> > > I do not recall seeing doctoros passed that.
> >
> > I've no idea who doctoros is. And what do you not recall doctoros passing?
>
> Doctor "Os" (really spelt Oz, but we all know "The Doctor"'s inability to
> spell correctly) is Oprah Winfrey's medical expert, who got his own
> spin-off show ... I never knew he was on Doctor Who as well. ;-)

Day of Doctor Oz: Daleks invade daytime advice shows in the US.

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Oct 16, 2016, 5:44:53 PM10/16/16

to

In article <a1507057-c2cb-4d00...@googlegroups.com>,

Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 5:28:29 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <7a0fc95c-d683-4352...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:37:10 PM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
>
>> >> The war camps with time children
>> >
>> >What are time children, and what are their abilities?
>>
>> You did not recall this in Day ofthe Doctor?
>
>
>I had thought that the 2.47 billion children on Gallifrey were ordinary
>non time traveling children. Are you contending that said children
>could travel in time, without TARDISes?

Recall Susan.

TB

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Oct 16, 2016, 10:36:13 PM10/16/16

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On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 2:44:53 PM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <a1507057-c2cb-4d00...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 5:28:29 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <7a0fc95c-d683-4352...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:37:10 PM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> >
> >> >> The war camps with time children
> >> >
> >> >What are time children, and what are their abilities?
> >>
> >> You did not recall this in Day ofthe Doctor?
> >
> >
> >I had thought that the 2.47 billion children on Gallifrey were ordinary
> >non time traveling children. Are you contending that said children
> >could travel in time, without TARDISes?
>
> Recall Susan.

She still needed a TARDIS to time travel.

The Doctor

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Oct 17, 2016, 11:33:42 AM10/17/16

to

In article <8cdb1e2b-6715-42c8...@googlegroups.com>,

She was a Time Tot.

TB

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Dec 25, 2016, 11:39:09 AM12/25/16

to

How did the War Doctor get to Tranzalore?

Tim Bruening

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Dec 25, 2016, 11:40:06 AM12/25/16

to

Then on what do you predict your Gallifrey sucking prediction?

The Doctor

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Dec 25, 2016, 7:14:37 PM12/25/16

to

In article <e34f3b9e-631d-4709...@googlegroups.com>,

Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>How did the War Doctor get to Tranzalore?

He did not.

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Merry Christmas 2016 and Happy New Year 2017

The Doctor

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Dec 25, 2016, 7:15:02 PM12/25/16

to

In article <2d687176-7694-47a3...@googlegroups.com>,

Not into a black hole.

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Tim Bruening

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Dec 25, 2016, 7:58:37 PM12/25/16

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On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 4:14:37 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <e34f3b9e-631d-4709...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >How did the War Doctor get to Tranzalore?
>
> He did not.

I saw him with my own two eyes!

The Doctor

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Dec 25, 2016, 8:27:00 PM12/25/16

to

In article <b35d5cac-9461-446a...@googlegroups.com>,

Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 4:14:37 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <e34f3b9e-631d-4709...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >How did the War Doctor get to Tranzalore?
>>
>> He did not.
>
>I saw him with my own two eyes!

In the Docotr's Time Line!

Tim Bruening

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Dec 25, 2016, 10:57:49 PM12/25/16

to

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 5:27:00 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <b35d5cac-9461-446a...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 4:14:37 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <e34f3b9e-631d-4709...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >How did the War Doctor get to Tranzalore?
> >>
> >> He did not.
> >
> >I saw him with my own two eyes!
>
> In the Docotr's Time Line!

I saw the War Doctor standing on Transzalore with my own two eyes at the end of this episode!

Why hadn't Clara ever seen the War Doctor during her travels through the Doctor's timeline?

The Doctor

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Dec 26, 2016, 10:27:36 AM12/26/16

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In article <458562e5-9ba3-4b34...@googlegroups.com>,

That was not Transelore! That was in the Doctor's Time Line!

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Dec 26, 2016, 5:48:47 PM12/26/16

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In article <9ec58b8f-679d-42d2...@googlegroups.com>,

Exactly!! THe Dcotor had to enter his time line when it all happened.

Tim Bruening

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Jan 1, 2017, 8:20:05 PM1/1/17

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So now the trip to visit the Doctor's grave never happened?

Tim Bruening

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Jan 1, 2017, 8:21:57 PM1/1/17

to

How did Strax's sparring partner knock him out so fast? It didn't look to me like the shovel had hit the probic vent.

The Doctor

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Jan 1, 2017, 9:06:05 PM1/1/17

to

In article <74762b13-cb8e-4bed...@googlegroups.com>,

Exactly! As proven in the Day of the Dalek.

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Mar 28, 2018, 9:46:57 PM3/28/18

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On Monday, May 20, 2013 at 5:35:23 AM UTC-7, Ross wrote:
>
> But look at what we did see: the literal cliffhanger from Dragonfire.
> Where the seventh doctor for no discernable reason other than "We're
> at the 22 minute mark and it's time for a cliffhanger" decides to
> climb over a railing and dangle over the edge of an ice cliff. The
> most bizarre, pointless, inexplicable cliffhanger in the show's
> history.
>
> There's your hint. Why did that happen? Because The Great
> Intelligence. Why does the Doctor turn into a cowardly jackass for big
> stretches of Vengeance on Varos? Because The Great Intelligence. Arc
> of Infinity: Why, dear God, just WHY? Because the Great Intelligence.
>
> Every stupid, pointless cliffhanger in forty years, every nonsensical
> plot complication, every time something bad happens for NO REASON
> other than to wratchet up dramatic tension, it's all BECAUSE THE GREAT
> INTELLIGENCE.

So GI caused the above by tweaking Doctor's timeline?

The Doctor

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Mar 29, 2018, 8:38:02 AM3/29/18

to

In article <13688412-8a40-465c...@googlegroups.com>,

To carry chromosomes ...

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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism

You can't have everything. Where would you put it? -Steven Wright

The Doctor

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Mar 29, 2018, 8:39:13 AM3/29/18

to

In article <187298ca-e391-44e5...@googlegroups.com>,

Until Clara corrected everything.

Timothy Bruening

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Apr 16, 2018, 11:58:49 AM4/16/18

to

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:38:02 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <13688412-8a40-465c...@googlegroups.com>,
> Timothy Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> "Mark Evans" <m...@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:ksrm6a-...@server.anacon.no-ip.org...
> >> > Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.no_spam> wrote:
> >> >> Brilliant episode.
> >
> >> >
> >> >> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
> >> >> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
> >> >> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established
> >> >> that
> >> >
> >> > Possibly an android (or Tesselector) body.
> >>
> >> That would have obvious limitations, like not being able to consummate their
> >> marriage properly.
> >
> >Why can't androids be made with sexual equipment?
>
> To carry chromosomes ...

Why should that stand in way?

The Doctor

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Apr 16, 2018, 4:49:13 PM4/16/18

to

In article <38ee13b8-1f92-4ce6...@googlegroups.com>,

no chromosomes in a droid.

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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism

Do the thing we fear, and death of fear is certain. -Ralph Waldo Emerson

Timothy Bruening

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Apr 16, 2018, 10:05:15 PM4/16/18

to

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 1:49:13 PM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <38ee13b8-1f92-4ce6...@googlegroups.com>,
> Timothy Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:38:02 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <13688412-8a40-465c...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Timothy Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> "Mark Evans" <m...@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> >> news:ksrm6a-...@server.anacon.no-ip.org...
> >> >> > Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.no_spam> wrote:
> >> >> >> Brilliant episode.
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
> >> >> >> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
> >> >> >> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Possibly an android (or Tesselector) body.
> >> >>
> >> >> That would have obvious limitations, like not being able to
> >consummate their
> >> >> marriage properly.
> >> >
> >> >Why can't androids be made with sexual equipment?
> >>
> >> To carry chromosomes ...
> >
> >Why should that stand in way?
>
>
> no chromosomes in a droid.

There is a law against giving droids that lack chromosomes sexual equipment?

The Doctor

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Apr 16, 2018, 10:51:41 PM4/16/18

to

In article <b4c8adf3-8170-49b2...@googlegroups.com>,

Oh?

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Timothy Bruening

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Apr 17, 2018, 12:38:04 AM4/17/18

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You listed "no chromosomes in a droid" as a reason barring droids from being given sexual equipment. The logical inference is that there is a law against it, since I see no technological reason for a lack of chromosomes in a droid to make droid sex equipment impossible!

Timothy Bruening

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Apr 17, 2018, 12:56:48 AM4/17/18

to

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> "Mark Evans" <m...@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ksrm6a-...@server.anacon.no-ip.org...
> > Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.no_spam> wrote:

> >> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
> >> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
> >> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established
> >> that
> >
> > Possibly an android (or Tesselector) body.
>
> That would have obvious limitations, like not being able to consummate their
> marriage properly.

The Husbands Of River Song: King Hydraflax speaks of nights of passion, which means he has sexual equipment!

Timothy Bruening

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Apr 17, 2018, 1:05:30 AM4/17/18

to

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 4:59:39 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <bebb1a88-641a-44af...@googlegroups.com>,

> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >On Monday, May 20, 2013 at 5:35:23 AM UTC-7, Ross wrote:

> >> But look at what we did see: the literal cliffhanger from Dragonfire.
> >> Where the seventh doctor for no discernable reason other than "We're
> >> at the 22 minute mark and it's time for a cliffhanger" decides to
> >> climb over a railing and dangle over the edge of an ice cliff. The
> >> most bizarre, pointless, inexplicable cliffhanger in the show's
> >> history.
> >>
> >> There's your hint. Why did that happen? Because The Great
> >> Intelligence. Why does the Doctor turn into a cowardly jackass for big
> >> stretches of Vengeance on Varos? Because The Great Intelligence. Arc
> >> of Infinity: Why, dear God, just WHY? Because the Great Intelligence.
> >>
> >> Every stupid, pointless cliffhanger in forty years, every nonsensical
> >> plot complication, every time something bad happens for NO REASON
> >> other than to wratchet up dramatic tension, it's all BECAUSE THE GREAT
> >> INTELLIGENCE.
> >

> >The Great Intelligence has psychic powers. It must have fogged the
> >Doctor's mind!
>
> How?

By thinking at him.

The Doctor

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Apr 17, 2018, 9:49:22 AM4/17/18

to

In article <223f4b93-eeca-4d1a...@googlegroups.com>,

So how do you programme chromosomes into an android?

The Doctor

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Apr 17, 2018, 9:50:51 AM4/17/18

to

In article <85dad2c0-c96e-4852...@googlegroups.com>,

Ah! Yes!!

The Doctor

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Apr 17, 2018, 9:51:15 AM4/17/18

to

In article <c4705f46-90ee-40ec...@googlegroups.com>,

And distorting time.

Timothy Bruening

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Apr 17, 2018, 3:09:43 PM4/17/18

to

Perhaps male & female androids could have electronic sex to combine "half-files" to create a program from which a baby android can be made. See "Code Of The Lifemaker" by James P Hogan.

Timothy Bruening

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Jul 7, 2018, 3:16:20 AM7/7/18

to

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 4:40:37 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> Brilliant episode.

> River Song from the Library computer shows up so this could mean that
> Stephen Moffat might devise a way to bring her permanently back to life
> since there's almost nowhere else to find River. Since it's established that

> she's a Time Lord and the Master and Rassilon were brought back from the
> Matrix and the Library computer is similar to that then she could be brought
> back the same way.

But her parents are card carrying homo sapiens!

The Doctor

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Jul 7, 2018, 11:17:20 AM7/7/18

to

In article <0ff919e4-64c1-4a6e...@googlegroups.com>,

So?

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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Timothy Bruening

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Feb 24, 2019, 11:47:21 PM2/24/19

to

S07E14. S7E14.

On Monday, May 20, 2013 at 5:35:23 AM UTC-7, Ross wrote:

> On May 19, 6:03 pm, "Stephen Wilson"
> <stephen.wilson2...@nospam.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
> >
> > news:sOKdnYsfb8-VtATM...@eclipse.net.uk...
> >
> >
> >
> > >> He could still be between 12 and 13, just because 11 encountered him
> > >> doesn't mean he has to be 11+half, he could be 12+half, even 13! Hold
> > >> on, 13 is in the tomb - ah, but the graveyard contains images of all
> >
> > > It could actually be 11 in the tomb since Clara only saw 11 Doctors. Why
> > > not the other 2?
> >
> > And this was another part of the problem. Clara saw 11 Doctors. We saw a
> > montage of clips showing Clara with past Doctors. All the fanboys get
> > excited. But the idea was half-baked. The idea was that Clara was meant to
> > have saved each of them from the damage the Great Intelligence was
> > inflicting on them. We never got to see the Great Intelligence at work - how
> > it was attacking the Doctor. We never got to see how Clara stopped it. The
> > only scene that had any detail was Clara directing the first Doctor and
> > Susan to an alternative TARDIS. So are we meant to assume it was the Great
> > Intelligence that tried to get them into the other TARDIS? On the other
> > hand, doesn't that entire scene completely contradict "the Doctor's Wife"
> > which was only broadcast 2 years ago? In that, it was claimed that the
> > Doctor and the TARDIS selected each other...
> >
> > No, we don't need to be explicitly shown every single tiny little detail.
> > But enough to join the dots would be nice every now and then.

>
> But look at what we did see: the literal cliffhanger from Dragonfire.
> Where the seventh doctor for no discernable reason other than "We're
> at the 22 minute mark and it's time for a cliffhanger" decides to
> climb over a railing and dangle over the edge of an ice cliff. The
> most bizarre, pointless, inexplicable cliffhanger in the show's
> history.
>
> There's your hint. Why did that happen? Because The Great
> Intelligence. Why does the Doctor turn into a cowardly jackass for big
> stretches of Vengeance on Varos? Because The Great Intelligence. Arc
> of Infinity: Why, dear God, just WHY? Because the Great Intelligence.
>
> Every stupid, pointless cliffhanger in forty years, every nonsensical
> plot complication, every time something bad happens for NO REASON
> other than to wratchet up dramatic tension, it's all BECAUSE THE GREAT
> INTELLIGENCE.

So THAT'S why

I: The New Doctor regenerates in the counsel room of a moving TARDIS, causing it to go haywire,

and II: Never thinks to develop a remote for the TARDIS in spite of being hit over the head with the need for a remote by being cut off from the TARDIS over and over?

The Doctor

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Feb 25, 2019, 8:49:18 AM2/25/19

to

In article <fe3315f8-0251-47c9...@googlegroups.com>,

IS that what you conclude?

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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Timothy Bruening

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Apr 19, 2019, 9:18:06 PM4/19/19

to

I can't think of any other logical reasons for the above meta nits!