Review - The Waters of Mars
pbo...@aol.com
the question that's been preoccupying everyone for so long:
Is my review of Waters of Mars any good?
Oh yes, and there's been a bit of fuss here and there about the
episode itself.
It has a fair amount to live up to: the wait between the last
Christmas special and Planet of the Dead left a lot of people feeling
let down with the latter, and we've waited nearly twice as long for
this instalment, following not one but now two rather weak specials.
RTD has gone overboard with the hyperbole in his media spin. And then
there's the title itself to live up to.
The Waters of Mars. Dr Who has had some pretty dire names in its
history - "The Deadly Assassin" is one I like to rip into, but what
about more recent clunkers like "Fear Her" (the name, not *just* the
episode), "Love & Monsters", "The Runaway Bride", "The Stolen Earth",
"Planet of the Dead"... Then there are the clever ones, and "Waters of
Mars" fits firmly in this category - it almost sounds like the name of
a '50s pulp story, exactly as you'd expect for a sci-fi programme set
on Mars, yet at the same time being topical with recent discoveries by
the latest Mars rovers with the implicit suggestion of something
sinister (since there isn't any liquid water on Mars).
Plus ... it's Mars! You've got to do a Mars story in a sci-fi show!
It's such an iconic place that it deserves a good story, at that.
Of course, in the Dr Who universe, Mars means one thing (other than
Pyramids) - Ice Warriors. A story set on Mars surely needs Ice
Warriors, and we've seen all those pictures of creatures with Ice
Warriorish mouths. Yet RTD tells us this is not an Ice Warrior story.
So what's going on?
Well, RTD's telling the truth. And the Doctor does, indeed, refer to
the creatures as Ice Warriors (albeit in one sentence - "Works against
the Ice Warriors, works against the flood [which is caused by the Ice
Warriors]") - so we're right too. A couple of us here converged on the
idea that this would somehow involve converting humans into Ice
Warriors to resurrect the race, and in essence this is what happens. I
think john smith was the one who suggested that the Ice Warriors left
something in the water that would allow them to return from
extinction, and this is the Doctor's explanation too. However, the Ice
Warriors themselves are only in the story as a source for the flood
(if they can create water, what do they need Earth for?), and as the
obligatory "monster to run away from".
Hold on - aren't I supposed to be reviewing the actual story here?
Oops, sorry about that. So, is it any good?
The short answer is yes. Does it live up to its billing? Not really -
it's been touted as a scary episode, but there have certainly been
ones that score higher on the fear factor front. The monsters are
revealed early on, and there's a limited amount that can be squeezed
out of "oh no, the killer rising damp!". So it's perhaps wise that the
story mostly neglects this aspect (the flood only comes to a head in
the final few minutes), and wiser still that it neglects most of the
supporting cast, who are for the most part badly-acted with dismal
fake accents (the "American" kid sounds every bit as phoney as Luke
Rattigan in The Sontaran Stratagem).
This leaves the Doctor and companion Adelaide, both of whom put on
good performances for a two-person show, even if the episode does tend
to leave you with the feeling that the first 45 minutes could probably
be dispensed with altogether without getting rid of any of the good
bits or any relevant part of the plot. Oh, and sneakily RTD sneaks in
a Dalek, since we have to have at least one every year. But hey,
Midnight had a slow buildup too, and except for the "funny" robot and
the excruciating name Bowie Base, there's no sign of typical RTD
silliness here, and the robot operating the TARDIS was quite fun.
While there's a pretty big, plotless gap between "Ice Warriors appear"
and "the base is flooded and things begin to happen", this time isn't
completely wasted; Adelaide's given character development that makes
her somewhat more 'real' than a number of one-off companions, but much
of the episode generates tension as we wonder what the Doctor's going
to do and when, since he shows no signs of wanting to do anything to
prevent the deaths that RTD unsubtly flags up multiple times at the
start of the story. When they get ready to evacuate, what's he
planning? Will he sabotage the shuttle to ensure his 'fixed point' in
time stays fixed?
In the end, of course, he does a Pompeii and rescues a few of them
after all. Unlike the Pompeii episode, this isn't a happy ending and
it's where things get interesting, as the Doctor starts to turn into
the Master and Adelaide gets rather unhappy about it. I'm not exactly
sure how killing herself in her own house has the same impact as her
dying on Mars, though... Nevertheless, this is a particularly powerful
scene that does make a solid but mostly uneventful episode into
certainly the strongest Dr Who special yet, and better than quite a
few episodes of the main series.
And what of the Ice Warriors? We can presume all three were killed in
the explosion; however it appears that this is the first time they
learn about Earth, and apparently that knowledge remains with their
Earth-invading descendants. Perhaps future Mars colonies are destined
to awaken them again, but with survivors from the base humanity can be
warned about them - does this mean they will now never be resurrected,
since the Doctor changed history (he's so keen to preserve human
history, but he doesn't seem very concerned about the history of other
races)? This, I suspect, will be a story for later Who writers to
tell...
Phil
john smith
<pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d3a72434-402b-43ce...@d5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Cool review! Agree with almost everything you said - although I didn't
think the other actors were that bad, just kinda inconsequential to the
story. (The tone and setting reminded me a lot of "Moon", actually.) And I
picked up on the Doctor/Master similarities too. Tennant's acting was
excellent! Plus I don't mind those pulp sci-fi titles - like you said, this
one suited it perfectly...
I also watched "Doctor Who Confidential" which echoed a lot of your points -
although they underplayed the Ice Warriors and left it very much open-ended.
So... not as scary as it could've been, but pretty good, and the ending
bodes ill for the Doctor... As I said in a previous post, they're finally
gonna address the idea of Time Lord mortality - so roll on Christmas! (Just
makes me wonder how likely it is to run a real downer of an episode on
Christmas Day: "Right, kids, off to bed. The babysitter's here. Mum and
dad are off to the pub...")
pbo...@aol.com
> <pbow...@aol.com> wrote in message
Finally! Better stick to Dr Who rather than SJA reviews from now on,
then... I'm starting to get embarrassed on the SJA threads that only
Aggy agrees with me. :-(
- although I didn't
> think the other actors were that bad, just kinda inconsequential to the
> story. (The tone and setting reminded me a lot of "Moon", actually.)
Got to watch that one of these days. Though wasn't Moon set on, well,
the moon?
And I
> picked up on the Doctor/Master similarities too.
I thought it was a great direction, but should probably have had more
build-up earlier in the episode when less was happening rather than
just shouting out "The Laws of Time are MINE! ALL MINE!!
HAHAHA!!!!!" (or close equivalent) as everyone was preoccupied with
other things.
Tennant's acting was
> excellent! Plus I don't mind those pulp sci-fi titles - like you said, this
> one suited it perfectly...
There's a fantastic Deep Space Nine episode about Sisko imagining
himself as a writer of '50s pulp sci-fi - I always imagine the title,
Far Beyond the Stars, in the portentous tones of a B-movie trailer -
it's exactly that sort of name! Yes, those sorts of titles are great
for nostalgia value if nothing else, as well as a nod to a tradition
that a lot of Who titles seem to borrow from.
> I also watched "Doctor Who Confidential" which echoed a lot of your points -
> although they underplayed the Ice Warriors and left it very much open-ended.
I'll catch that on iPlayer, probably in a few minutes.
Phil
Damian R
<pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d3a72434-402b-43ce...@d5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well, RTD's telling the truth. And the Doctor does, indeed, refer to
> the creatures as Ice Warriors (albeit in one sentence - "Works against
> the Ice Warriors, works against the flood [which is caused by the Ice
> Warriors]") - so we're right too. A couple of us here converged on the
> idea that this would somehow involve converting humans into Ice
> Warriors to resurrect the race, and in essence this is what happens. I
> think john smith was the one who suggested that the Ice Warriors left
> something in the water that would allow them to return from
> extinction, and this is the Doctor's explanation too. However, the Ice
> Warriors themselves are only in the story as a source for the flood
> (if they can create water, what do they need Earth for?), and as the
> obligatory "monster to run away from".
<snip>
> And what of the Ice Warriors? We can presume all three were killed in
> the explosion; however it appears that this is the first time they
> learn about Earth, and apparently that knowledge remains with their
> Earth-invading descendants. Perhaps future Mars colonies are destined
> to awaken them again, but with survivors from the base humanity can be
> warned about them - does this mean they will now never be resurrected,
> since the Doctor changed history (he's so keen to preserve human
> history, but he doesn't seem very concerned about the history of other
> races)? This, I suspect, will be a story for later Who writers to
> tell...
While the Doctor was talking to Adelaide as they looked at the glacier, he
talks about the ancient civilisation on Mars and how they may have found the
Flood and perhaps embedded them in the glacier to keep them away. In his
comments about using heat, I assumed he was referring to the experience of
using heat against the Ice Warriors because they're a life form that prefers
cold, and that the same idea may work with the Flood - I didn't infer any
suggestion that the Flood actually were the Ice Warriors.
john smith
<pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3bea9887-dcdc-46df...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Finally!
***What - you WANT us to agree with you? Where's the fun in that?***
Better stick to Dr Who rather than SJA reviews from now on,
then... I'm starting to get embarrassed on the SJA threads that only
Aggy agrees with me. :-(
***It's probably only you and him who watch it!***
- although I didn't
> think the other actors were that bad, just kinda inconsequential to the
> story. (The tone and setting reminded me a lot of "Moon", actually.)
Got to watch that one of these days. Though wasn't Moon set on, well,
the moon?
***Funny guy! The off-world base stuff, obviously. Also the Gadget robot
reminded me of Gerty from "Moon"... though "Wall-E" was maybe a more obvious
relation...***
And I
> picked up on the Doctor/Master similarities too.
I thought it was a great direction, but should probably have had more
build-up earlier in the episode when less was happening rather than
just shouting out "The Laws of Time are MINE! ALL MINE!!
HAHAHA!!!!!" (or close equivalent) as everyone was preoccupied with
other things.
***Okay, the dialogue was a bit corny but the nuances of Tennant's acting
were great. He can really act with his eyes (c.f. "Midnight", which I know
we both rate), which is the mark of a real actor...***
Tennant's acting was
> excellent! Plus I don't mind those pulp sci-fi titles - like you said,
> this
> one suited it perfectly...
There's a fantastic Deep Space Nine episode about Sisko imagining
himself as a writer of '50s pulp sci-fi - I always imagine the title,
Far Beyond the Stars, in the portentous tones of a B-movie trailer -
it's exactly that sort of name!
***Seen it and that's one of its better episodes; well, at least it stuck in
my mind. I thought the "Star Trek" franchise got increasingly laboured, but
then don't most things that run and run and run? It's amazing - but
brilliant! - that they've gotten so much mileage out of "Doctor Who" all
these years, considering it's such a simple premise...***
Yes, those sorts of titles are great
for nostalgia value if nothing else, as well as a nod to a tradition
that a lot of Who titles seem to borrow from.
> I also watched "Doctor Who Confidential" which echoed a lot of your
> points -
> although they underplayed the Ice Warriors and left it very much
> open-ended.
I'll catch that on iPlayer, probably in a few minutes.
***You mean the red button, surely? ;-) ***
Phil
pbo...@aol.com
> <pbow...@aol.com> wrote in message
I don't think the Flood referred to the monsters, just to, well, the
flood of water - I took it that the three converted humans were the
Ice Warriors referred to, and the flood their product. As I recall, it
was electricity he was using against them, not heat, and I'm not aware
of the Doctor using electricity to beat any other Ice Warriors.
Phil
Soze
<pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:44cdff2e-a590-411d...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
I have to confess I didn`t get anything from the episode which suggested
these monsters actually *were* ice warriors. The Doctor talked of an ancient
noble race from Mars called the ice warriors and said these creatures called
be a virus trapped in the ice ( something along those lines ). He went on to
say heat had worked against the ice warriors in the past but never said
anything to make me think we were actually seeing them here. I`ll have to
watch it again...did anyone besides Phil think these were ice warriors
today?
Alan Sailsbury
As I mentioned the other day, RTD said there were no Ice Warriors in
this story so Phil's theory is incorrect.
Monsieur Tabernac
I think you misintepreted the Ice Warrior connection. The Doctor
mentioned that he though the ancient race of Ice Warriors had
imprisoned the water-virus in the glacier for their own protection --
not that it was of their making (nor a method of their resurrection).
This is the exact dialogue (from the closed captioning):
"They tell legends of Mars, from long ago. Of a fine and noble race
who built an empire out of snow. The Ice Warriors. [...] Perhaps
they found something down there. Used their might and their wisdom to
freeze it."
And later when he considers using heat:
"They use water,so we can use heat! Works against the Ice Warriors
and the Flood, ramp up the environment controls, steam them!"
Anyway...
Overall, it was quite an interesting episode, although it appears that
the whole adventure on Mars was a vehicle to get to the end where the
Doctor -- perhaps out of character -- snaps. I got the impression
that his decision to save the colonists was to prove that he could
change a "fixed point in time and space", and therefore could change
the fate of the Time Lords. I wish his change of character was a
little more subtle, though -- but what do I know? I couldn't write a
decent script for television (unlike Aggy).
Still, the Mars adventure had its moments and was suspenseful and had
great atmosphere (and fantastically creepy visuals). I look forward
to "The End of Time." (I have a feeling it'll be a Doctor Who version
of "A Christmas Carol" with the Doctor playing the part of Scrooge,
and the Ood playing the part of the ghost of Christmas
past/present/future.)
john smith
"Soze" <I...@salsbury42.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7mbgpvF...@mid.individual.net...
Nope!
john smith
"Monsieur Tabernac" <mtab...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6341g515hr8o0soqh...@4ax.com...
Hmm... Could work but didn't they do that "It's A Wonderful Life" type riff
in "Turn Left"?
Alan Sailsbury
> I wish his change of character was a
> little more subtle, though -- but what do I know?
The way I saw it, it's been building up to this since 2005! The Time
War, Father's Day, Lynda, Rose, Donna... all came to a head.
The Doctor
Ice Warriors, Daleks, the Doctor going barmy ... I can't wait.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
The Doctor
pbo...@aol.com
What you actually said was that it wasn't an Ice Warriors story - not
the same as saying there are no Ice Warriors in the story. Didn't one
of the Peladon stories only have an Ice Warrior in the supporting
cast? However, the episode's 'fact file' does suggest the second
reference was intended to refer to Ice Warriors past after all, not
these monsters (who aren't named).
Phil
Nicholas Waller
> After seven months of breathless anticipation, we can finally answer
> the question that's been preoccupying everyone for so long:
>
> Is my review of Waters of Mars any good?
>
> Oh yes, and there's been a bit of fuss here and there about the
> episode itself.
[snip]
I wasn't very keen on the 'running' joke (ho ho) about the bicycles.
This Mars base has vast empty corridors made of steel and plenty of
kitchen trolleys for pushing large food packs about - yet we get a bit
of a lecture about how some small fold-up bicycles are too heavy to
bring along.
Nick
pbo...@aol.com
In fairness, they could hardly have anticipated anyone needing to run
at high speed through the base... And why, in any case, did they seem
constrained to running at the speed they could manage in Earth
gravity?
I'd have a different plausibility concern - vehicles would be a top
priority for a Martian base in order to get round the planet. Plans
that have been mooted for Martian colonies have posited launching
modules containing rovers and planes (or components thereof that can
be readily-assembled) in advance of the base components themselves. A
throwaway line about having vehicles that aren't intended for indoor
use would have been better than the bicycle joke.
Then again, with things like the rocket-powered robot, we can't expect
much adherence to scientific plausibility...
Phil
Alan Sailsbury
>
>> As I mentioned the other day, RTD said there were no Ice Warriors in
>> this story so Phil's theory is incorrect.
>
> What you actually said was that it wasn't an Ice Warriors story - not
> the same as saying there are no Ice Warriors in the story.
Er, actually it is, in plain English.
Nathan Sanders
Alan Sailsbury <al...@yahoo.comm> wrote:
Was this a Dalek story?
The mere presence or mention of something in a story doesn't mean the
story is *about* that something.
Nathan
Alan Sailsbury
Yes, in a small way it WAS a Dalek story. When the next list of Dalek
stories is published, The Waters of Mars will be included. So your point
is...?
Nathan Sanders
Alan Sailsbury <al...@yahoo.comm> wrote:
> Nathan Sanders wrote:
> > In article <uqmdnX0nmZal85zW...@bt.com>,
> > Alan Sailsbury <al...@yahoo.comm> wrote:
> >
> >> pbo...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>> As I mentioned the other day, RTD said there were no Ice Warriors in
> >>>> this story so Phil's theory is incorrect.
> >>> What you actually said was that it wasn't an Ice Warriors story - not
> >>> the same as saying there are no Ice Warriors in the story.
> >> Er, actually it is, in plain English.
> >
> > Was this a Dalek story?
> >
> > The mere presence or mention of something in a story doesn't mean the
> > story is *about* that something.
>
> Yes, in a small way it WAS a Dalek story. When the next list of Dalek
> stories is published, The Waters of Mars will be included. So your point
> is...?
...my last sentence that you quoted.
I guess this was a carrot story and a German story, too!
Nathan
pbo...@aol.com
So because there was a Dalek in Waters of Mars, it was a Dalek story?
Phil
Ignis Fatuus
I liked the story about the gay Russians
a) because it was funny, and
b) because it infuriated Aggy.
Do you think RTD reads Aggy and then includes these snippets to wind
him up?
Hulahoop
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:38:49 -0500, Nathan Sanders
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <hIidnSAvvMPL7ZzWnZ2dnUVZ8g1i4...@bt.com>,
> > Alan Sailsbury <al...@yahoo.comm> wrote:
>
> >> Nathan Sanders wrote:
> >> > Alan Sailsbury <al...@yahoo.comm> wrote:
>
> >> >> pbow...@aol.com wrote:
> >> >>>> As I mentioned the other day, RTD said there were no Ice Warriors in
> >> >>>> this story so Phil's theory is incorrect.
> >> >>> What you actually said was that it wasn't an Ice Warriors story - not
> >> >>> the same as saying there are no Ice Warriors in the story.
> >> >> Er, actually it is, in plain English.
>
> >> > Was this a Dalek story?
>
> >> > The mere presence or mention of something in a story doesn't mean the
> >> > story is *about* that something.
>
> >> Yes, in a small way it WAS a Dalek story. When the next list of Dalek
> >> stories is published, The Waters of Mars will be included. So your point
> >> is...?
>
> >...my last sentence that you quoted.
>
> >I guess this was a carrot story and a German story, too!
>
> I liked the story about the gay Russians
>
> a) because it was funny, and
> b) because it infuriated Aggy.
>
> Do you think RTD reads Aggy and then includes these snippets to wind
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes - recall the use of the phrase "Ginger Beer". He must have told
Gareth Roberts to use that in the Aggy Christie episode
Regards
Ged
Stephen Wilson
"john smith" <the_jo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:PC0Mm.45483$uf7....@newsfe12.ams2...
>>
>> Still, the Mars adventure had its moments and was suspenseful and had
>> great atmosphere (and fantastically creepy visuals). I look forward
>> to "The End of Time." (I have a feeling it'll be a Doctor Who version
>> of "A Christmas Carol" with the Doctor playing the part of Scrooge,
>> and the Ood playing the part of the ghost of Christmas
>> past/present/future.)
>
>
> Hmm... Could work but didn't they do that "It's A Wonderful Life" type
> riff in "Turn Left"?
I thought "Turn Left" was their equivalent of "Sliding Doors"
john smith
"Ignis Fatuus" <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote in message
news:4ps2g55tb7o22ol9v...@4ax.com...
Does he fuck as like! You're as deluded as him to even entertain the idea!
john smith
<pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:57f63ed6-9c24-4bec...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
FFS, Phil, how bloody pedantic can you get?
john smith
"Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:LqjMm.27$mC4...@newsfe22.ams2...
Never seen it so I wouldn't know...
All these things are based on quantum indeterminancy anyway... C.f.
"Watchmen" for Doctor Manhattan's brilliant speech to Laurie on Mars about
how our individual existence is as rare as an atom of lead turning into
gold...
I think this is one of the overarching themes of RTD's run on "Doctor Who",
actually: this meddling and its repercussions has always been at the heart
of the programme but RTD is the first to really explore it in any kind of
depth...
Alan Sailsbury
Story has it Tennant looked in once, thought everyone was mad, and never
looked again.
john smith
"Alan Sailsbury" <al...@yahoo.comm> wrote in message
news:3YKdnWf1uapqZZzW...@bt.com...
Wise man...
pbo...@aol.com
> <pbow...@aol.com> wrote in message
Got to at least try and keep up with Iggy, though I suspect that's
likely to prove impossible.
Phil
The Face of Po
john smith got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
Just after the new series started, RTD claimed that he included snippets
like that in order to make casually homophobic viewers' heads explode.
We don't need to boost Aggy's ego by suggesting that he was the sole
target.
--
Happiness will prevail
john smith
"The Face of Po" <gkenn...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:hduunv$uaq$1...@spuduser.motzarella.org...
Exactly! The idiot already has delusions of grandeur. No need to fan the
flames further...
> --
> Happiness will prevail
Agamemnon
"Nicholas Waller" <narm...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:ed1124e8-1be5-4d05...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> On 15 Nov, 21:10, "pbow...@aol.com" <pbow...@aol.com> wrote:
>> After seven months of breathless anticipation, we can finally answer
>> the question that's been preoccupying everyone for so long:
>>
>> Is my review of Waters of Mars any good?
>>
>> Oh yes, and there's been a bit of fuss here and there about the
>> episode itself.
>
> [snip]
>
> I wasn't very keen on the 'running' joke (ho ho) about the bicycles.
> This Mars base has vast empty corridors made of steel and plenty of
> kitchen trolleys for pushing large food packs about - yet we get a bit
And guns. What do they need guns on Mars for? Who are they going defend
themselves against? Ice Warriors?
Mr.Smartypants
> "Nicholas Waller" <narmi...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ed1124e8-1be5-4d05...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 15 Nov, 21:10, "pbow...@aol.com" <pbow...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> After seven months of breathless anticipation, we can finally answer
> >> the question that's been preoccupying everyone for so long:
>
> >> Is my review of Waters of Mars any good?
>
> >> Oh yes, and there's been a bit of fuss here and there about the
> >> episode itself.
>
> > [snip]
>
> > I wasn't very keen on the 'running' joke (ho ho) about the bicycles.
> > This Mars base has vast empty corridors made of steel and plenty of
> > kitchen trolleys for pushing large food packs about - yet we get a bit
>
> And guns. What do they need guns on Mars for? Who are they going defend
> themselves against? Ice Warriors?
>
Cat molesters maybe.
>
> > of a lecture about how some small fold-up bicycles are too heavy to
> > bring along.
>
> > Nick- Hide quoted text -
Ross
> "Nicholas Waller" <narmi...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ed1124e8-1be5-4d05...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 15 Nov, 21:10, "pbow...@aol.com" <pbow...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> After seven months of breathless anticipation, we can finally answer
> >> the question that's been preoccupying everyone for so long:
>
> >> Is my review of Waters of Mars any good?
>
> >> Oh yes, and there's been a bit of fuss here and there about the
> >> episode itself.
>
> > [snip]
>
> > I wasn't very keen on the 'running' joke (ho ho) about the bicycles.
> > This Mars base has vast empty corridors made of steel and plenty of
> > kitchen trolleys for pushing large food packs about - yet we get a bit
>
> And guns. What do they need guns on Mars for? Who are they going defend
> themselves against? Ice Warriors?
>
In case someone comes down with Space-Madness? It's an awfully
stressful and sometimes depressing life on the frontier.
But notice that no one seems especially surprised by the Doctor's
presence. It bothers the commander, but no one ever reacts with
flabbergastedness to his having shown up -- they just suggest that
he's from one of the other global powers. To me, that suggests that
the political situation back on Earth is such that this is something
they've been worried about.
Andrew
On the other hand initial surprise of the Doctor's presence by locals
followed by rapid acceptance of him is scarcely unusual in Doctor Who.
That's why Midnight was so striking - it subverted that convention.
Alan Sailsbury
Yes the acceptance is just there to get the story moving along. One has
to suspend disbelief a lot with Doctor Who, and I wouldn't have it any
other way.
The Doctor
TB
The Doctor
and start new. Why bother with one human?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
People who are offended by Truth are an offense to good governance. -unknown
TB
> In article <9c04a6c9-edf1-4438...@googlegroups.com>,
>
> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, November 16, 2009 7:32:39 AM UTC-8, Alan Sailsbury wrote:
>
> >> Nathan Sanders wrote:
>
> >> > In article <uqmdnX0nmZal85zW...@bt.com>,
>
> >> > Alan Sailsbury <al...@yahoo.comm> wrote:
>
> >> >
>
> >> >> pbo...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >> >>>> As I mentioned the other day, RTD said there were no Ice Warriors in
>
> >> >>>> this story so Phil's theory is incorrect.
>
> >> >>> What you actually said was that it wasn't an Ice Warriors story - not
>
> >> >>> the same as saying there are no Ice Warriors in the story.
>
> >> >> Er, actually it is, in plain English.
>
> >> >
>
> >> > Was this a Dalek story?
>
> >> >
>
> >> > The mere presence or mention of something in a story doesn't mean the
>
> >> > story is *about* that something.
>
> >> >
>
> >> > Nathan
>
> >>
>
> >> Yes, in a small way it WAS a Dalek story. When the next list of Dalek
>
> >> stories is published, The Waters of Mars will be included. So your point
>
> >> is...?
>
> >
>
> >But I remember seeing only one Dalek! I am quite amazed that that Dalek didn't kill Adelaide!
>
>
>
> The Daleks thought they were going to erase Creation
>
> and start new. Why bother with one human?
The Doctor
TB
The Doctor
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism