End of Time
The Doctor
--
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Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
The Doctor
PArt 1 mixed reviews
PArt 2 Super superb!!
Do I read you all correctly
?
adric22
Davies. However, I must admit I still don't understand certain parts
of the plot. I'll have to watch it again and see if it makes more
sense. I hope it doesn't end up being like the Phantom Menace where I
didn't understand the plot and as it turns out years later - neither
does anyone else.
Stephen O'Connell
news:91dce4ed-c99d-415f...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
The two parts of the story combined could easily have been made as one
part, as the whole story was dragged out way too long, especially The
Doctor's goodbye to all 'his' companions and his eventual regenaration.
Rassilon and the Time Lords returning was long overdue, but RTD was
bringing them back just to get rid of them again, then it will have been a
waste. I'd like to see more of Timothy Dalton & Co in S5.
For me, I thought the End of Time was fairly dull and lacked excitement.
But I'm sure others loved it to bits. So good luck to them. Doctor Who on
BBC1 on both Christmas Day and New Years Day is a bonus for us all.
Unfortunately the story wasn't that 'special' at all as far as I was
concerned.
Goodbye David Tennant, hello Matt Smith.
The Doctor
I understood it quite well. You might have to refer to the Master ,
Gallifrey, the Time Lords and the Time War for help. It is complicated,
but once you have the background, easy to understand, I enjoyed this.
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> "adric22" <adr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:91dce4ed-c99d-415f...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com.
> ..
>> Well, I'd say part 1 & 2 were pretty good for being written by
>> Davies. However, I must admit I still don't understand certain parts
>> of the plot. I'll have to watch it again and see if it makes more
>> sense. I hope it doesn't end up being like the Phantom Menace where
>> I didn't understand the plot and as it turns out years later -
>> neither does anyone else.
>
> The two parts of the story combined could easily have been made as one
> part, as the whole story was dragged out way too long, especially The
> Doctor's goodbye to all 'his' companions and his eventual
> regenaration.
Part one I thought had too much stuff crammed into it, but part two did
drag a bit.
> Rassilon and the Time Lords returning was long overdue, but RTD was
> bringing them back just to get rid of them again, then it will have
> been a waste. I'd like to see more of Timothy Dalton & Co in S5.
There we disagree; Time Lords are dull, and I'd have been quite happy if
they'd never returned. The entire point of the place is to be dull, so we
understand the Doctor better by contrast. The only occasions when they
aren't dull is when they're the villains[1], which is what we got here.
Since non-dull Time Lords have to be villains, there was never any
question in my mind that the reason for bringing the them back was to
force the Doctor to decide he had to wipe them out again. I agree it's
unfortunate more wasn't made of this; instead he was rapidly put into a
situation where sending them back wasn't just the best choice, it was the
*only* one.
In any case, while the hole they escaped through may have been plugged up
*this* time, it's been established that such an escape route exists, and
therefore so may another one. I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of
them, any more than we have the Daleks.
(And I don't believe that was *the* Rassilon anyway. Rassilon the Second,
maybe...)
[1]Note that this does not exclude the possibility of them being dull
*and* villains, as in Trial of a Time Lord.
--
Dave
People say nothing rhymes with orange, but it doesn't.
Stephen O'Connell
>
> In any case, while the hole they escaped through may have been plugged
> up *this* time, it's been established that such an escape route exists,
> and
> therefore so may another one. I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last
> of them, any more than we have the Daleks.
More Mr Dalton as the bad Lord President of Gallifrey would be okay. But
yes, I'm sure that they will be back one day alright.
> (And I don't believe that was *the* Rassilon anyway. Rassilon the
> Second, maybe...)
Rassilon could just be an honourable term for the President? Or maybe some
parents name their offspring Rassilon after THE Rassilon?
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> "Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote
>> (And I don't believe that was *the* Rassilon anyway. Rassilon the
>> Second, maybe...)
>
> Rassilon could just be an honourable term for the President? Or maybe
> some parents name their offspring Rassilon after THE Rassilon?
It seems plausible. He might even be descended from the original. Which
would possibly mean he grew up feeling he was *expected* to become Lord
President.
Or, and this only occured to me just now, he *could* actually be
Rassilon, "brought back" to fight the Time War in the same ill-defined
way as the Master.
(Personally, if I was going to give the President a name just for the
Doctor to shout it in the last minute, I'd probably have gone for
Borusa...)
--
Dave
There's an old Earth saying. A phrase full of power and wisdom, and
consolation to the soul in times of need. Allons-y!
The Doctor
>parents name their offspring Rassilon after THE Rassilon?
I have my doubts. The reference must be non-complementary. Still not all the
greatest.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK
John Elliott
: On 04 Jan 2010, "Stephen O'Connell" <no....@fk.u.com> wrote:
:>
:> Rassilon could just be an honourable term for the President? Or maybe
:> some parents name their offspring Rassilon after THE Rassilon?
I'd think it would be rather like a Pope taking the name Peter. You'd have
to be some sort of megalomaniac (though that wouldn't bar our friend 007).
And it has been pointed out elsewhere that the last Emperor of the Western
Roman Empire was called Romulus Augustus -- named after the first King and
the first Emperor.
: It seems plausible. He might even be descended from the original. Which
: would possibly mean he grew up feeling he was *expected* to become Lord
: President.
: Or, and this only occured to me just now, he *could* actually be
: Rassilon, "brought back" to fight the Time War in the same ill-defined
: way as the Master.
Obviously my time putting similar ideas on the recap page at TV Tropes
under 'Epileptic Trees' could have been put to better use :-) Though, on the
evidence so far, it seems that whatever process the Time Lords use to bring
people back is rather hard on the little grey cells. Jacobi's Master
couldn't pull off a simple murder, Simm's Master is as mad as a kettle of
ferrets, and Dalton's Rassilon-if-that's-his-real-name shows all the
strategic thinking and devious cunning of a tea cosy.
(It's also theoretically possible that the Doctor could be calling the
*woman* 'Rassilon', but that's something of a reach.)
: (Personally, if I was going to give the President a name just for the
: Doctor to shout it in the last minute, I'd probably have gone for
: Borusa...)
And I'd have chosen 'Morbius'.
--
John Elliott
Thinks: This is what a nice clean life leads to. Hmm, why did I ever lead one?
-- Bluebottle, in the Goon Show
Stephen O'Connell
news:Xns9CF6C28D68E34da...@130.133.4.11...
> On 04 Jan 2010, "Stephen O'Connell" <no....@fk.u.com> wrote:
>> Rassilon could just be an honourable term for the President? Or maybe
>> some parents name their offspring Rassilon after THE Rassilon?
>
> It seems plausible. He might even be descended from the original. Which
> would possibly mean he grew up feeling he was *expected* to become Lord
> President.
>
> Or, and this only occured to me just now, he *could* actually be
> Rassilon, "brought back" to fight the Time War in the same ill-defined
> way as the Master.
I would imagine that is how RTD intended it. However the name of Timothy
Dalton's character as the Lord President of Gallifrey could have been
called anything really without the Doctor shouting the name Rassilon. So
RTD over-egged the pudding a bit by throwing that line in. As if it was
THE Rassilon, it would raise more questions than it answered. Which might
mean another return of the Time Lords one day to answer them?
chas_m
> I would imagine that is how RTD intended it. However the name of Timothy
> Dalton's character as the Lord President of Gallifrey could have been
> called anything really without the Doctor shouting the name Rassilon. So
> RTD over-egged the pudding a bit by throwing that line in. As if it was
> THE Rassilon, it would raise more questions than it answered. Which might
> mean another return of the Time Lords one day to answer them?
I don't think it raises a whole lot of questions particularly -- if the
Time Lords can -- as explicity stated in the show -- resurrect (note
the use of the term) totally dead Time Lords like The Master and give
them an entire new regeneration cycle, what's to stop them doing the
same for arguably their George Washington? Seems like a bit of a
no-brainer to me.
It's pretty obvious that RTD meant it to be THE Rassilon, and though I
also think "Morbius" would have been more a squee moment for fans, too
bad. It's Rassilon.
--
Cheers
chas_m