New Alien Encounter ride
Tommy Geddings
Kingdom?
Tommy Geddings
WGed...@FTC-I.net
gene...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
If the line is long, skip it. I think it's pretty dull.
The best part is the animatronics you view just before you enter the
seating area. Once inside, a malevolent alien breaks out of the glass
cylinder while the lights are out, then a little wind and water hit
you. When it was over I turned to my wife and said "Is that all?"
Yes, that was all! Not one of the better attractions.
Marc van de Grift
>
>On Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:47:11 GMT, WGed...@FTC-I.Net (Tommy Geddings)
>wrote:
>
>>Can anyone give me specific spoiler details about the Alien Encounter ride in Tommorrowland at Magic
>>Kingdom?
>>Tommy Geddings
>>WGed...@FTC-I.net
>>
>If the line is long, skip it. I think it's pretty dull.
I think it was great. My wife swore that she will never go in again.
Especially the part that some rescuers come to free the crowd and then
the lights go off and you hear screaming and 'blood' is splashing
everywhere. It was made very well.
This is my personal opinion
Bye,
Marc
Tiggr
WGed...@FTC-I.Net (Tommy Geddings) wrote:
>Can anyone give me specific spoiler details about the Alien Encounter ride in
Tommorrowland at Magic
>Kingdom?
>Tommy Geddings
>WGed...@FTC-I.net
>
same type of seating as the old mission to mars. Second it is not for kids.
Heck it is scary enough to be bad for some parents too. Do not follow the
basic philosophy that 'its disney it cant be scary'. Well its not that the
scary part is that scary, it is just a heck of a lot more suspenseful than
anything you would ever guess disney would create.
Other than that it is an awesome attraction and definitly worth the wait for
anyone to go at least once
Bob Arthur
>>Can anyone give me specific spoiler details about the Alien Encounter ride in
>Tommorrowland at Magic Kingdom?
Ok, now comes the minority opinion...<g>
Alien Encounter is an evil, horrifically violent, disgusting spectacle
that does not belong in the Magic Kingdom. It is jarringly out of step
with every other attraction in the park, especially Walt's favorite: The
Carousel of Progress. The juxtaposition of these two rides in
Tomorrowland--one, a hopeful vision of the future; the other, aliens
_eating_ people--is so far out of step with Walt's original idea of the
family amusement park as to be an insult to his memory.
Now, I understand that Walt wanted a place where _both_ adults and
children can go to be entertained; but he meant _together_. Otherwise,
why don't they make their next attraction "Mr. Toad's Strip Bar"! Not
only would I not take my children to Alien Encounter, I wouldn't take my
parents there, either.
I simply cannot believe that--with the resources of the Imagineering
team--the _best_ thing they could come up with for the "Mission to Mars"
replacement was this gut-wrenchingly violent display. In a word: yuk!
There have to be so many things they could have come up with that would
have been inspiring, fascinating, uplifting, astonishing...well, like the
rest of the park. But no, they chose to go for shock value. Thumbs
down. Disney doesn't need to go for the cheap thrill; let them leave the
lowest common denominator to hacks like Universal. I expect more from the
Mouse.
--Bob
--
Bob Arthur | "Spare the duct tape,
Technology Development Manager | spoil the job" - Red Green
Arthur Technology |
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Richard Brown
bar...@fdl.fdldotnet.com (Bob Arthur) wrote:
> > WGed...@FTC-I.Net (Tommy Geddings) wrote:
>
>
> I simply cannot believe that--with the resources of the Imagineering
> team--the _best_ thing they could come up with for the "Mission to Mars"
> replacement was this gut-wrenchingly violent display. In a word: yuk!
> There have to be so many things they could have come up with that would
> have been inspiring, fascinating, uplifting, astonishing...well, like the
> rest of the park. But no, they chose to go for shock value. Thumbs
> down. Disney doesn't need to go for the cheap thrill; let them leave the
> lowest common denominator to hacks like Universal. I expect more from the
> Mouse.
>
Apparenntly very much the minor opinion. Listen to the folks who come out
of the attraction - most of them love it.
Of course, if we have to elminate everything thats too scary for kids, we
have to remove Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, etc,
And not that the dark rides are all that comforting either. After all, in
Mr. Toad, you break the law, steal a car, die, and go to hell ;)
>
Bob Arthur
7637...@compuserve.com (Richard Brown) wrote:
> Of course, if we have to elminate everything thats too scary for kids, we
>have to remove Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, etc,
>
> And not that the dark rides are all that comforting either. After all, in
>Mr. Toad, you break the law, steal a car, die, and go to hell ;)
Oh, come on; there's a huge and obvious difference between
rollercoaster-type thrill rides and Alien Encounter! There is a gaping
divide between a ride that scares people in a thrilling, fun way and one
that scares people by turning out the lights and squirting blood on them.
Alien Encounter is a vile, extraordinarily violent display. If it
belongs anywhere in WDW, it belongs at Disney Studios. The attraction has
a movie tie-in, and the entertainment theme and standards are different at
the Studios.
But the Magic Kingdom is the land of Snow White, the Lion King, singing
children from around the world... People being violently murdered in a
dark room does not seem to fit.
Oh, and not everyone coming off the ride likes it. I was there in Dec
94, in a test audience before the ride was shut down to make it even
_more_ scary. The people around me felt the same way my girlfriend and I
did: the attraction is shockingly violent and is inconsistent with it's
setting.
L.A.
: 94, in a test audience before the ride was shut down to make it even
: _more_ scary. The people around me felt the same way my girlfriend and I
: did: the attraction is shockingly violent and is inconsistent with it's
: setting.
:
: --Bob
You know, on this same note, my sentiments when I saw the "New"
Tomorrowland, was one of a dark and sinister future where Big Brother
rules the world, kind of an Orwellian existence. Yes, Tomorrowland was
looking like Yesterland, but it showed a bright outlook of the future,
not a dark evil one. It kind of makes kids fear the future, not look
forward to it, something that does not really match the Carousel of
Progress' vision of what will be.
Even the character in the Cosmic Cafe was hunched over the piano as if
someone had shot him like in the days of the old west. Certainly, there
was a better position to leave him in than that.
Eisner and Co., are no longer worried about image, has that not become
clear? They only worry about the bottom line. Gruesome or not, you saw
how many people were in line and that's what pays the bills.
Louis Allen
sun...@gate.net
--
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Michael Eisner World, in a few moments, you
will be asked to place all of your cash in the purple receptacles before
entering the park, where you will experience a day of being bled on,
thrown around, and basically made sick. We hope you enjoy your stay at
the Michael Eisner World Resort...
Dan
>
>
> Oh, come on; there's a huge and obvious difference between
> rollercoaster-type thrill rides and Alien Encounter! There is a gaping
> divide between a ride that scares people in a thrilling, fun way and one
> that scares people by turning out the lights and squirting blood on them.
>
> Alien Encounter is a vile, extraordinarily violent display. If it
> belongs anywhere in WDW, it belongs at Disney Studios. The attraction has
> a movie tie-in, and the entertainment theme and standards are different at
> the Studios.
>
> But the Magic Kingdom is the land of Snow White, the Lion King, singing
> children from around the world... People being violently murdered in a
> dark room does not seem to fit.
>
> 94, in a test audience before the ride was shut down to make it even
> _more_ scary. The people around me felt the same way my girlfriend and I
> did: the attraction is shockingly violent and is inconsistent with it's
> setting.
>
> --Bob
>
You're so silly... I've said this before and will probably have to say it
again. It is not profitable for Disney or anyone to stick entirely to
"happy little kid rides" in a theme park these days. Disney is also
trying to appeal to EVERYBODY so EVERYBODY can find something they enjoy
in the Magic Kingdom. So I'm afraid I can't pity you just because there
is something at Disney World that YOU don't like. - Dan
Homepage = http://grove.ufl.edu/~dbs
Liz and Art Jennings
> On Sat, 13 Apr 1996, Bob Arthur wrote:
> > Alien Encounter is a vile, extraordinarily violent display. If it
> > belongs anywhere in WDW, it belongs at Disney Studios.
> > But the Magic Kingdom is the land of Snow White, the Lion King, singing
> > children from around the world... People being violently murdered in a
> > dark room does not seem to fit. The attraction is shockingly violent
and is inconsistent with it's
> > setting.
> > --Bob
> In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.960414180117.3303A-100000@banyan>, Dan
<d...@grove.ufl.edu> wrote:
> You're so silly... I've said this before and will probably have to say it
> again. It is not profitable for Disney or anyone to stick entirely to
> "happy little kid rides" in a theme park these days. Disney is also
> trying to appeal to EVERYBODY so EVERYBODY can find something they enjoy
> in the Magic Kingdom. So I'm afraid I can't pity you just because there
> is something at Disney World that YOU don't like. - Dan
Well, except there are families who go to WDW with younger kids (and I
don't mean the 3 and under set) who - dare I even suggest
this - haven't read The Unofficial Guide or Birnbaum cover to cover
and don't know what all these rides are about. And here they are
at the Magic Kingdom with the Lion King show and Cinderella's Castle, and
maybe they don't want their 5 or 7 year old kids sub-
jected to the likes of Alien Encounter. I agree with Bob - put it
in the Disney Studios park.
Liz
Andy Dannelley
> > WGed...@FTC-I.Net (Tommy Geddings) wrote:
> >>Can anyone give me specific spoiler details about the Alien Encounter
ride in
> >Tommorrowland at Magic Kingdom?
>
>
> Ok, now comes the minority opinion...<g>
>
> Alien Encounter is an evil, horrifically violent, disgusting spectacle
> that does not belong in the Magic Kingdom. It is jarringly out of step
> with every other attraction in the park, especially Walt's favorite: The
> Carousel of Progress.
....snip
> I simply cannot believe that--with the resources of the Imagineering
> team--the _best_ thing they could come up with for the "Mission to Mars"
> replacement was this gut-wrenchingly violent display. In a word: yuk!
.... snip
I guess I am a part of the minority opinion also...
I think the best description is (quoting Bob) *YUK* !! Yes, I agree,
couldn't they have come up with something better to replace MTM? I don't
really like "blood & guts".
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, if you don't like it, stay away from it! I do,
I just hope that those who do enjoy AE, *really* enjoy it. I'm just more
into "cute" like the "Transportarioum" (sp?) with Robin Williams that's
just across the way. I like the TTA, and I really, really miss the People
Mover at DL.
Later
Andy Dannelley dan...@primenet.com
wool...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
the best attractions Disney has to offer. The special effects create an
extremely realistic atmosphere. I'd say it was not to be missed. For the guy
who wrote it was "pretty dull" , what attractions do you like?
Jennifer Woolard
kpel...@angela.hwsys.com
Organization: SFH Enterprises
: On Sat, 13 Apr 1996, Bob Arthur wrote:
: >
: >
: > Oh, come on; there's a huge and obvious difference between
: > rollercoaster-type thrill rides and Alien Encounter! There is a gaping
: > divide between a ride that scares people in a thrilling, fun way and one
: > that scares people by turning out the lights and squirting blood on them.
: >
: > Alien Encounter is a vile, extraordinarily violent display. If it
: > belongs anywhere in WDW, it belongs at Disney Studios. The attraction has
: > a movie tie-in, and the entertainment theme and standards are different at
: > the Studios.
: > But the Magic Kingdom is the land of Snow White, the Lion King, singing
: > children from around the world... People being violently murdered in a
: > dark room does not seem to fit.
: >
Granted, I think "alien drool" would be just as effective and
more suspenseful than "technician blood", but there are all sorts of
warning signs and NOBODY IS FORCING ANYONE TO RIDE ALIEN ENCOUNTER
(except for some stupid parents who force their kids on).
There is NO movie tie-in here. This is in no way related to
"Aliens" universe. This is its own mythology.
Finally, I have no idea where people got this idea of Disney
always being light and flowery. Have you actually gone back and watched
some of the early animated features? How about the transformation of the
evil queen in Snow White, or when she is laughing at the skeletons? Or
when Snow Wite bites the apple, or when the queen is killed? What about
Bambi's mother being shot? What about Monstro in Pinocchio and all of
the stuff in that movie? (Pinocchio gave me bad nightmares as a child.)
What about Chernabog in Fantasia, or the Headless Horseman, or "Now
you're going to deal with me, and all the powers of HELL!" in Sleeping
Beauty?
I know the attraction is different in WDW, but at Disneyland,
it's called Snow White's SCARY Adventures. You get run over by a train
and sent to "Hades" in Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.
Ken Pellman, SFH
kpel...@hwsys.com
+These are my opinions, not those of my "I Remember Larry"
employer or any other entity.+
Bryan Vallejos
>setting.
>
> --Bob
>
>--
> Bob Arthur | "Spare the duct tape,
> Technology Development Manager | spoil the job" - Red Green
> Arthur Technology |
As much as I enjoyed the attraction the first time I went, I must agree
with Bob here. The entertainment factor does not change the fact that it
does seem out of place in MK. It doesn't really doesn't seem to fit in
with the new theme of Tomorrowland nor does it fit into the typical Disney
mold. They've got some neat technology in use on the attraction, but maybe
it would have been put to better use in another format.
Jeff
Mike
>Well, except there are families who go to WDW with younger kids (and I
>don't mean the 3 and under set) who - dare I even suggest
>this - haven't read The Unofficial Guide or Birnbaum cover to cover
>and don't know what all these rides are about. And here they are
>at the Magic Kingdom with the Lion King show and Cinderella's Castle, and
>maybe they don't want their 5 or 7 year old kids sub-
>jected to the likes of Alien Encounter. I agree with Bob - put it
>in the Disney Studios park.
>Liz
So don't take you children on the Alien Encounter ride. Do your work as a
parent and know what kind of ride you are taking your children on. Don't
deny the experience to other people because you are too damn lazy to be
responsible for your own children and expect disney to babysit for you.
Jason R
YOU ARE JUST HIT WITH THINGS AND SHOCKED AND KILLED AND....
Well, big news!. It isnt scary at all!!!. Just some stupied effects with
water {Remember The Little Mermaid,Muppetvision3d and Honey I shurnk the
audnce} In fact, doesnt AE use some compressed air effects {Just like on
Honey I shurnk.}
It isnt that scary, even the soundtrack is messed up. {Sit in the last
row, now ask, why do I hear people behind me.? Well it isnt because they
just teletransported those people there!}
If you dont like the ride dont go on it. I dont care if you havent read
the Brinbums guide book, that isnt a excuse when there are about 4000
signs and cast members and people in line PLUS the fact that they give
you a guide book as you walk in the park that TELLS you this may be
intense!.
Jay
Jason R
Member FDC {Beach Club lighting tech}
VRC Homepage, Use it to find out ALL you Disney info needs.
Http://www.vivanet.com/~thelazer
Bob Arthur
First--and this is off the main point--if you don't make a connection
between the attraction "Alien Encounter" and the "Alien" movie trilogy,
you are thinking like a lawyer. There is an obvious physical similarity
between the aliens, and the designers of the attraction clearly wanted you
to make that connection. True, they have a different backstory to the
aliens through the pre-show, but the feeling and general repulsiveness of
the alien is the same. But fine, if there is no direct movie tie-in (or
the producers of the "Alien" movies want too much money) then maybe it
doesn't belong in the Studios.
None of that changes the fact that AE is enormously inconsistent with
everything else in the Magic Kingdom, and doesn't belong there. Your
examples of violence in early (and recent) animated features prove _my_
point, not yours; specifically, that there is _Disney_ scary, and then
there is _serious, adult_ scary.
All of the examples you cite are violent, but are portrayed in as
tasteful and child-sensitive a way as possible. The death of Bambi's
mother serves a vital purpose in the story; and is presented in a
non-exploitive, careful way. There is an important lesson to her death.
It was probably my first understanding of the certainty of death; the
"circle of life", as it were. In no way is it gratuitously displayed for
entertainment value.
Also, in the movies there are evil characters _and_ there are good
characters. True, they show the pervasiveness and actions of evil; but
only in the context of a full story. In those full stories, good always
triumphs over evil. Evil actions are never presented by themselves, as
entertainment.
In _stark_ contrast, Alien Encounter is a non-stop, gratuitous display
of intense, gut-wrenching violence. There is a backstory, but they pretty
much leave it in the pre-show. The _only_ point to AE is that a murderous
alien is among you, that he has eaten others among you in horrible
fashion, and that eventually you _yourself_ will be eaten. There is no
escape, there is no reason, you will die. The act of violence is
repeatedly exploited for entertainment value. There is _nothing_ to
compare it to within the Magic Kingdom.
This is a sucker punch. This is not "Disney" scary, this is "Faces of
Death" scary. To say that parents simply need to be aware, and that
nobody is forcing you to ride misses the point entirely. The Magic
Kingdom has an extremely longstanding and hard-won standard for
entertainment. They built an empire around it. Simply, parents _trust_
Disney. That is something Disney needs to spend an incredible amount of
time thinking about and protecting.
I maintain: the Magic Kingdom has a standard for entertainment and
presentation that is unique, fun, and family-oriented. It is special.
Alien Encounter is inconsistent with that standard. I can get bloody
violence just by turning on my television. Mickey Mouse can do _much_
better than this.
--Bob
--
Bob Arthur | "Spare the duct tape,
Technology Development Manager | spoil the job" - Red Green
Arthur Technology |
Patrick Fitzsimmons
visit, and twice the time before. I still scream like a like a
little girlie-man every time I ride it. I like to really involve
myself in the theming of the attractions and Alien Encounter is so
involving that you can be scared by nothing more than the enviroment
it provides. That is why I like Disney so much better than something
like Six Flags. Where else on earth can you be SO scared without
moving an inch?
I have no quarrel with it being in the Magic Kingdom either. Why
should it be such a sin for more mature people to have some fun too?
It is a park for ALL-AGES, not just the kiddies. And the kiddies
have plenty of stuff already. They are going to come whether there
are attractions like AE or not. Now, Disney is attempting to attract
the mature crowd with Pleasure Island, Tower of Terror, Alien
Encounter, and very soon, Animal Kingdom. This isn't something bad.
A couple should be able to enjoy themselves at DisneyWorld as much as
a family.
And hasn't Disney always pushed the barrier on these kind of
attractions? Remember that Walt had originally planned on having
Pirates of the Carribean be a very violent attraction. It was the
IMAGINEERS, not Walt that finally decided against that. So give 'em
some credit for following in Walt's concept of a park for all ages,
not just children.
-DrFeelGood1/Patrick Fitzsimmons
Don't Worry, Bea Arthur
> You know, on this same note, my sentiments when I saw the "New"
> Tomorrowland, was one of a dark and sinister future where Big Brother
> rules the world, kind of an Orwellian existence.
I didn't get that impression at all. How "sinister" is bright neon? I
very much like the new theming. It's extremely Jules Vernian and it'll
never get old (a money-saving decision, probably, but an aesthetic one,
too...who can get excited about the future that looks like the 70s?). I
really like the color scheme...I didn't find it "dark" at all. No more
than the Nautilus in the middle of Fantasyland, anyway, which used to be
one of my favorites.
I understand (but don't at all agree with) your opinion of AE, but that's
not where I find fault with New Tomorrowland.
The main thing I have noticed that I don't like is whole "Technology Gone
Wrong" thing. You know, the oven over-heating in COP, Robin Williams not
having total control over the time machine, the whole transporter thing in
AE...while I personally believe the future will be a lot closer to Blade
Runner than Star Trek, I don't really want to see that at Disney.
This isn't the same argument as yours, tho. There's no reason the alien
had to be a corporate mistake. I enjoyed the Magic Journeys 3D movie a
lot more than HISTA, because the idea was cooler. Broken shrink ray, 3D
effect run amok in Muppets (tho I like that one a lot)...I dunno, it just
doesn't seem right. So I understand what you are trying to say about AE,
but I still think Disney was never above a cheap scare, just like corpses
popping up in the graveyard or the Evil Queen scaring the pants of little
kids in Snow White. Not to mention that most excellent witch from Magic
Journeys. Or J. Thaddeus Toad's Insane Adventure, the best ride ever...
Other random gripes:
This has probably been remarked upon before, but Dreamflight sucks. I
wonder if they kept all that If You Had Wings... stuff. It was
muchmuchmuch cooler. The song, too. Damn Eastern for ruing our ride!
They should not have changed the song in COP...I don't much care for the
final scene any more, either. I know COP came out just around 1960,
making the 20 year gaps flow better, but it just doesn't seem right to
launch right into the present from 1940. Being a circle and all, I guess
they didn't have much room to play with (damn that geometry), but somehow
the present falls a little flat. I'd rather see the old 1960 one and no
present. And was it really necessary to PC the dog's name from "Queenie"
to "Spot"?
The Fed Ex commercials in Space Mountain are just wretched. I never
minded the RCA dog at all (perhaps because it was tasteful?), but those
Fed Ex ads have got to go. And you'd think Disney'd put in enough
forethought to make the tape loop longer than the time you have to wait in
line.
I still like the TTA, but I wish it were more informational, like it used
to be. I guess that kills the whole Fantasy Future thing, but it seems a
little more plastic now than before.
All that griping aside...I'd rather spend 8 hours in Dreamflight than 15
minutes at my desk at work...WDW is still great, and Splash Mountain and
the Lion King show prove that all hope is not lost, Disney can still churn
out amazing magic that is like nothing else on Earth...but some changes
just seem to be going in completely the wrong direction. I really hate
that pained feeling I get when I see a closed ride (eg, Horizons) and I
just start worrying...oh no, what are they going to do NOW?
Rant over.
j
FDC - J. Thaddeus Toad
17 days to go!
Dan
>
> As much as I enjoyed the attraction the first time I went, I must agree
> with Bob here. The entertainment factor does not change the fact that it
> does seem out of place in MK. It doesn't really doesn't seem to fit in
> with the new theme of Tomorrowland nor does it fit into the typical Disney
> mold. They've got some neat technology in use on the attraction, but maybe
> it would have been put to better use in another format.
>
> Jeff
>
I don't think any of our opinions about what should and shouldn't be in
the Magic Kingdom mean anything (including "all" of the people who rode
with Bob who also didn't like AE). We are not Michael Eisner, the newly
crowned "most powerful man in Holleywood" who wanted this ride installed
and made even scarier after the original script was too lame. We are not
the Imagineers who spent countless hours designing and redesigning AE. We
are also not the market research team who spent quite a bit of money
concluding that Alien Encounter DID fit inside the New Tomorrowland theme
and that enough guests WOULD like the presentation. If this were not the
case, then everyone I know from College Program on would not love the ride,
and the line would not be so terribly long EVERY day.
So basically, state your opininon, but unless you have the facts
to prove what you say, it seems like you shouldn't be trying to tell
Disney how to run a theme park, and instead should be enjoying the parts
that you DO like. - Dan
__
Homepage = http://grove.ufl.edu/~dbs
Kristen D'Agostino
> First--and this is off the main point--if you don't make a connection
> between the attraction "Alien Encounter" and the "Alien" movie trilogy,
> you are thinking like a lawyer. There is an obvious physical similarity
> between the aliens, and the designers of the attraction clearly wanted you
> to make that connection. True, they have a different backstory to the
> aliens through the pre-show, but the feeling and general repulsiveness of
> the alien is the same. But fine, if there is no direct movie tie-in (or
> the producers of the "Alien" movies want too much money) then maybe it
> doesn't belong in the Studios.
Why would Disney tip-toe around tying a ride into one of their
own movies without placing the name directly on the ride? An "Alien"
movie would be called "Alien" and have an animitronic Sigourny Weaver
teleporting Skippy, not some SIR robot straight out of Tomorrowland.
>
> None of that changes the fact that AE is enormously inconsistent with
> everything else in the Magic Kingdom, and doesn't belong there. Your
> examples of violence in early (and recent) animated features prove _my_
> point, not yours; specifically, that there is _Disney_ scary, and then
> there is _adult...
As a Disney Cast Member, who took thirty hours of business
seminars, I tend to trust the market research the Imagineers considered
when they concieved of and designed the ride. I also trust Micheal
Eisner's opinion, and he felt the ride needed more.
> All of the examples you cite are violent, but are portrayed in as
> tasteful and child-sensitive a way as possible. The death of Bambi's
> mother serves a vital purpose in the story; and is presented in a
> non-exploitive, careful way. There is an important lesson to her death.
> It was probably my first understanding of the certainty of death; the
> "circle of life", as it were. In no way is it gratuitously displayed for
> entertainment value.
Do you feel that the slow-action segment of Simba and Scar's
fight in the Lion king is also a graphic and unneeded display of violence?
No one I have heard has questioned it as a non-essential part of the
movie, yet it is a graphic and violent as many R-rated films.
> Also, in the movies there are evil characters _and_ there are good
> characters. True, they show the pervasiveness and actions of evil; but
> only in the context of a full story. In those full stories, good always
> triumphs over evil. Evil actions are never presented by themselves, as
> entertainment.
>
I hate to break it to you, Bob, but good does not always triumph
over evil... That is why Disney movies are _fiction_ not fact. Evil is
a matter of judgement. Hearing that one person shot another point-blank
is evil, until we find out that the person who was shot about to slit the
person's throat over a lost parking spot. All of a sudden one death
because justified. Can we say that a fictitious alien is evil because he
was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was hungry?
> In _stark_ contrast, Alien Encounter is a non-stop, gratuitous display
> of intense, gut-wrenching violence. There is a backstory, but they pretty
> much leave it in the pre-show. The _only_ point to AE is that a murderous
> alien is among you, that he has eaten others among you in horrible
> fashion, and that eventually you _yourself_ will be eaten. There is no
> escape, there is no reason, you will die. The act of violence is
> repeatedly exploited for entertainment value. There is _nothing_ to
> compare it to within the Magic Kingdom.
What I find interesting is this repeated reference to the extreme
graphic nature of AE. The action takes place in a room with no lights.
It is portrayed through sounds and special effects. No one ever SEES
anything.
> This is a sucker punch. This is not "Disney" scary, this is "Faces of
> Death" scary. To say that parents simply need to be aware, and that
> nobody is forcing you to ride misses the point entirely. The Magic
> Kingdom has an extremely longstanding and hard-won standard for
> entertainment. They built an empire around it. Simply, parents _trust_
> Disney. That is something Disney needs to spend an incredible amount of
> time thinking about and protecting.
> you are right that Disney and the Magic Kingdom have a
reputation. But Disney is also the producer of many movies that are for
adult owners.
>
> --Bob
>
>
The children that I have seen ride AE all enjoyed it very much.
They were apparently able to separate the _fantasy_ in the ride and enjoy it.
-Kristen
Dan
> Well, except there are families who go to WDW with younger kids (and I
> don't mean the 3 and under set) who - dare I even suggest
> this - haven't read The Unofficial Guide or Birnbaum cover to cover
> and don't know what all these rides are about. And here they are
> at the Magic Kingdom with the Lion King show and Cinderella's Castle, and
> maybe they don't want their 5 or 7 year old kids sub-
> jected to the likes of Alien Encounter. I agree with Bob - put it
> in the Disney Studios park.
> Liz
For starters, Liz, Disney isn't a daycare center, but if it was I would
agree that Alien Encounter is inappropriate. But considering that Maagic
Kingdom is designed to deliver joy and happiness to guests of all ages,
it is about time that they are thinking of us "older kids" and realizing
that we all don't like little toy-train roller coasters or the new and
improved Snow White with the PC ending.
And even if you haven't read Brimbaun's, you surely couldn't have
missed the attractive park map that explains the intensity of Alien
Encounter, or perhaps the various signs outside of the ride itself
explaining the ride's possible severity to those expecting a kiddie
ride, or maybe even the REPEATED warning spoken over the intercom by the
host or hostess. As for your children, if you were to let them roam
around the park alone, and they disobey your order not to have fun and
ride the Alien Encounter, it is not Diney's nor Mickey Mouse's job to
ensure they stick to your rules. If you can't control your own children,
then that's your own problem.
I strongly recommend a lovely CHILDREN'S park run by Anheuser Busch
called Sesame Place if you really need a theme park/daycare.
-Daniel S.
Dan
when you see the Bollinger and Maballard roller coasters at Animal
Kingdom, aren't you? And hey you probably think the animals that Disney
will "imprison" in habitats fifty times better than their natural ones
with a year round bounty of food should be starving free in the wild...
Or do you not care because you have to go blow smoke in a non-smoker's
child's face?
-Dan
Homepage = http://grove.ufl.edu/~dbs
Andy Dannelley
D'Agostino <k...@grove.ufl.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Bob Arthur wrote:
>
....big snip
>
> What I find interesting is this repeated reference to the extreme
> graphic nature of AE. The action takes place in a room with no lights.
> It is portrayed through sounds and special effects. No one ever SEES
> anything.
Kristin,
You are right, no one ever sees anything of a graphic nature on AE. I
thought about this after my post on "blood and guts" on AE. AE plays on
something far more sensory than our sight, *our perceptions*. I guess
(being the "wimp" that I am) that is why AE gave me the creeps. If Disney
is trying to freighten people, they succeded with me (and lots of others
in the room with me).
>
> > This is a sucker punch. This is not "Disney" scary, this is "Faces of
> > Death" scary. To say that parents simply need to be aware, and that
> > nobody is forcing you to ride misses the point entirely. The Magic
> > Kingdom has an extremely longstanding and hard-won standard for
> > entertainment.
....snip
I think the best advice about AE is something I have said numerous times,
and others as well... Before going on AE, or any ride attraction, *KNOW*
yourself, and your children. If something would *spoil* your day or trip,
reconsider whether, you really want to do it.
I am not avocating anyone avoid AE or any other ride or attraction, just
be aware of your tolerances. I feel that we should all push the envelope
of our experience, for this is how we grow, but be considerate and kind to
yourself as to how hard you push.
Later,
Andy Dannelley dan...@primenet.com
Reed Bickley
<clap clap clap!>
<notthedisease>
Gosh....Now if only I could say these sort of things....:)
Reed Bickley -=- imag...@gate.net
FDC Imagineer -- RaD HoSt! -- Suckster #114
Disney Fan-=-|\|i|/| Fan-=-LoA Fan
"Thaw Walt Now!!!" - Ken Nabbe
Jonathan M Skiffington
bar...@fdl.fdldotnet.com says...
> In _stark_ contrast, Alien Encounter is a non-stop, gratuitous display
>of intense, gut-wrenching violence. There is a backstory, but they pretty
>much leave it in the pre-show. The _only_ point to AE is that a murderous
>alien is among you, that he has eaten others among you in horrible
>fashion, and that eventually you _yourself_ will be eaten. There is no
>escape, there is no reason, you will die. The act of violence is
>repeatedly exploited for entertainment value. There is _nothing_ to
>compare it to within the Magic Kingdom.
>
> This is a sucker punch. This is not "Disney" scary, this is "Faces of
>Death" scary.
What?!?! Okay, just on small point here-"Alien Encounter" is an attraction,
it's fake, and everyone who experiences it (or rides it, or whatever) should be
aware of that going in. Faces of Death, on the other hand, was real-life
executions, murders, and deaths. To compare that movie to a Disney attractiong
is deplorable, to say the least. It is the parents responsibility to inform
their children about the nature of the ride, and further, to decide if their
children are mature enough to realize that it's *NOT REAL*. If that's a
problem for you, then don't take your children (or yourself) on the ride.
Simple.
kpel...@angela.hwsys.com
Bob Arthur (bar...@fdl.fdldotnet.com) wrote:
: First--and this is off the main point--if you don't make a connection
: between the attraction "Alien Encounter" and the "Alien" movie trilogy,
: you are thinking like a lawyer. There is an obvious physical similarity
: None of that changes the fact that AE is enormously inconsistent with
: everything else in the Magic Kingdom, and doesn't belong there. Your
: examples of violence in early (and recent) animated features prove _my_
: point, not yours; specifically, that there is _Disney_ scary, and then
: there is _serious, adult_ scary.
Bob,
Before I say anything else, I'd like to say I'm very much in
favor of preserving Disney traditions, ideals, standards, and qualities.
I'd also like to say that I'm not nearly as passionate as you are about
this matter - AE could close down tomorrow and I know it wouldn't be the
end of the world - but I still feel that it is a well done attraction and
can be defended. With that...
Star Wars is not Battlestar Gallactica, and Alien Encounter is
not Alien or Aliens. You can just as easily say that it is Star Trek
because of the teleportation. So, there is no reason for it to be in the
studio park unless Disney makes a movie based on the mythology. Granted,
that does not neccessarily mean it belongs in the Magic Kingdom.
Yes, the point of the attraction is to scare people. That's what
the people who enter it want. Tower of Terror is supposed to scar you,
and that's what it does. The wicked queen/old hag in _Snow White atSD_
is supposed to scare people. Malificent is supposed to scare people.
Tell me, did you think the portrayal of Mufasa's death in TLK was
appropriate? Well Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston didn't, so QUICK! EDIT
THAT MOVIE!
Your point of "Disney scary" vs "unDisney scary" fails to take
into account the change in the general public. There was terrifying and
graphic violence in those early features, and there is terrifying implied
violence in AE. I know that AE is not the best example of a Disney
attraction, but I think it does have its place. I think the area were it
needs work on meeting Disney standards is the technology - the video
segments, writing, and animatronics are excellent, but it doesn't appear
to feature envelope-pushing technology, which would make the attraction
much more scary without resorting to violence (i.e. blood splattering).
Finally let me say that I think that generally WDI did a fine job
with it, regardless of what anyone thinks of the premise.
Ken Pellman, SFH
kpel...@hwsys.com
+These opinions are mine - not those of my employer,
who is not providing me with this computer, phone
line, time, or account anyway.+
Karl Guttag
like they were just finding a use for the old MARs/Moon
room. I'm more of a visual person and the lights seemed to
be out most of the time and the effects in the dark were
nothing special to me. Unlike a great ride like
Pirates or Temple of the Forbiddin Eye at Disneyland, it is
not the kind of thing I would like to go back on again and
again.
I don't see anything terribly wrong with it being at the MK
and they warn people very well what kind of attraction is.
I just don't think much of it as an attraction. But to
each his/her own.
Karl
Karl Guttag
Jim McLean
ALAN TAFF <10073...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>I personally think that Pirates of the Caribbean is far more
>effensive than Alien Encounter. In Pirates you get pirates
>holding women's knickers in the hands, pirates hanging a mayor,
>pirates getting completely pissed, pirates selling women, pirates
>chasing women, pirates tieing people up, and pirates shooting
>women. This is far more offensive, and sexist than anything
>experienced in Alien Encounter.
I didn't see anybody call Alien Encounter sexist, but this
does bring to mind a question: has the Pirates ride at WDW
changed at some point in the past 5 years or so to be
slightly less offensive? I'm thinking particularly of the
spot where (currently) three local matrons are chasing
three pirates in circles with brooms. Memory tells me that
originally this was two pirates chasing women followed by
one matron chasing pirate; setup, setup, punchline. (There
may be other spots where the implications of rape and
plunder were softened, but this is the one that always
strikes me). Of course, I could be simply flashing back to
my one trip to DL as a kid. Was the ride in fact changed
and if so where and how?
Jim McLean | There is no Truth, there are no Facts, just data to be
| manipulated. I can get any result you want; how much is
| it worth to you?
DormouseL7
cited to the new one with the women chasing the pirates. Besides that, I'm
not sure of any other specific things, but I've heard that the ride was
toned down in several instances.
Anime Nut
Is this at WDW or at DL? I'm sorry, I haven't been to either since last
summer (I'm a Chicagoan).
Anime Nut
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(_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_)
"In the name of the moon, I will punish you!"
-Sailor Moon
"What an incredible smell you've discovered!"
-Han Solo
"The word I'm searching for...I can't say, because there's preschool toys
present."
-Woody
Ah yes, nothing makes me happier than the three great pleasures this
planet has to offer: Anime, Star Wars, and anything Disney. Whether it's
live, on paper, on tv, or on the silver screen, I just can't get enough!
-Alan "Anime Nut" Hufana
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Sam & Ella's Chicken Stand
> > cited to the new one with the women chasing the pirates. Besides that, I'm
> > not sure of any other specific things, but I've heard that the ride was
> > toned down in several instances.
One minor thing I noticed was that in the chasing scene, I seem to
remember 1 chicken chasing another. I could have been hallucinating or
something, but I'm pretty sure that used to be there. At any rate, there
are no chickens chasing other chickens now.
The foreground of the final scene (right before you get off the boat, with
the soldiers tied up in the background and the shooting pirate in the
foreground) seemed different to me last time I went, but I'm much less
sure about this than even the chicken thing. It wouldn't surprise me at
all if nothing was changed here.
Also, the waterfall drop was definitely less exciting than it had been the
last time I was on it.
By the way, these comments refer to the WDW Pirates.
j
FDC - J. Thaddeus Toad
8 days to go!
Bob Calbridge
mcl...@raleigh.ibm.com (Jim McLean) wrote:
>In <4lgfde$6sn$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>,
>ALAN TAFF <10073...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>>I personally think that Pirates of the Caribbean is far more
>>effensive than Alien Encounter. In Pirates you get pirates
>>holding women's knickers in the hands, pirates hanging a mayor,
>>pirates getting completely pissed, pirates selling women, pirates
>>chasing women, pirates tieing people up, and pirates shooting
>>women. This is far more offensive, and sexist than anything
>>experienced in Alien Encounter.
> I didn't see anybody call Alien Encounter sexist, but this
> does bring to mind a question: has the Pirates ride at WDW
> changed at some point in the past 5 years or so to be
> slightly less offensive? I'm thinking particularly of the
> spot where (currently) three local matrons are chasing
> three pirates in circles with brooms. Memory tells me that
> originally this was two pirates chasing women followed by
> one matron chasing pirate; setup, setup, punchline. (There
> may be other spots where the implications of rape and
> plunder were softened, but this is the one that always
> strikes me). Of course, I could be simply flashing back to
> my one trip to DL as a kid. Was the ride in fact changed
> and if so where and how?
Personally, to me, it doesn't matter. That's what pirates were
supposed to do. What is the sense of having an attraction with a name
like this if it's going to show pirates helping old ladies across the
street? Me thinks someone ground their axe down too far and is
looking for a new axe to grind.
Bob
Bob Calbridge = bcalb...@dcccd.edu
Senior Network Systems Programmer
Postmaster, Cook, Bottle Washer
Samuel Ault
Your right about the chickens. I don't know why but they used
to really anger me. I'm glad they're gone.
Sam Ault
Savannah GA
Star Wars nut, Disney junkie, Buc's fan, drunk, and all-around
cool guy.
Brent Swanson
In article <4lmdb6$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
DormouseL7 <dormo...@aol.com> wrote:
>The pirate-chasing scene was definitely changed, from the old scenario you
>cited to the new one with the women chasing the pirates. Besides that, I'm
>not sure of any other specific things, but I've heard that the ride was
>toned down in several instances.
When I first visited WDW's Pirates in '86, two of the women were being
chased while the third was doing the chasing--with broom in hand. All
this PCing strikes me as being even more hypocritical than ususal
because in the WDW version of the ride, the pirates come out on top.
When last we see them, they've successfully plundered the treasury,
whereas in the Disneyland version, they're about to get blown sky-
high. Seems to me that if chasing women is bad, stealing gold
isn't much better.
By the way, am I the only one who's theorized that WDW's shortened
version of the ride wasn't intended to be that way in the original
plans? There are fragments of the longer version throughout the
Magic Kingdom: the old timer and his cabin are on the Rivers of
America, and the playerless piano is in the Haunted Mansion. Do
you suppose the necessity for a shaded queue area dictated that the
opening segments of the ride be abridged?
Brent Swanson, 2nd assistant desk clerk and ice bucket scrubber
Bright Kentucky Hotel, Crooper, Illinois
Bob Arthur
In article <4lgl76$m...@ns1.mailorder.com>, kpel...@angela.hwsys.com () wrote:
>Bob Arthur (bar...@fdl.fdldotnet.com) wrote:
>
>: None of that changes the fact that AE is enormously inconsistent with
>: everything else in the Magic Kingdom, and doesn't belong there. Your
>: examples of violence in early (and recent) animated features prove _my_
>: point, not yours; specifically, that there is _Disney_ scary, and then
>: there is _serious, adult_ scary.
>
>Bob,
> Before I say anything else, I'd like to say I'm very much in
>favor of preserving Disney traditions, ideals, standards, and qualities.
>I'd also like to say that I'm not nearly as passionate as you are about
>this matter - AE could close down tomorrow and I know it wouldn't be the
>end of the world - but I still feel that it is a well done attraction and
>can be defended. With that...
-snip-
> Yes, the point of the attraction is to scare people. That's what
>the people who enter it want. Tower of Terror is supposed to scar you,
>and that's what it does. The wicked queen/old hag in _Snow White atSD_
>is supposed to scare people. Malificent is supposed to scare people.
>Tell me, did you think the portrayal of Mufasa's death in TLK was
>appropriate? Well Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston didn't, so QUICK! EDIT
>THAT MOVIE!
I dispute your claim that people who enter AE get what they want. Being
in the Magic Kingdom is a...lulling...experience. Everything is a little
gentler, a little safer, a little more cheerful than real life; and that's
the way it was designed. If you lose your new hat, someone will get you a
new one. If you drop your ice cream, someone will get you a new one. It
seems perfectly normal to get a hug from a 5 foot duck...
All of this is exclusive to the MK itself, and doesn't really extend in
the same way to the other areas of WDW. Not to be a total polyanna, but
the MK is "special". That's why it's timeless.
I just think that AE sandbags people at the Magic Kingdom. Now, I saw
it in a preview in Dec 94, and perhaps there has been enough time for the
"word" to get around, so people aren't surprised. But, I maintain that
the ride has an intensity that is many orders of magnitude above anything
else _in the MK_. True, the ToT is scary, but that is in the Studios,
and there is a different standard there.
Who's Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston?
> Your point of "Disney scary" vs "unDisney scary" fails to take
>into account the change in the general public. There was terrifying and
>graphic violence in those early features, and there is terrifying implied
>violence in AE. I know that AE is not the best example of a Disney
>attraction, but I think it does have its place. I think the area were it
>needs work on meeting Disney standards is the technology - the video
>segments, writing, and animatronics are excellent, but it doesn't appear
>to feature envelope-pushing technology, which would make the attraction
>much more scary without resorting to violence (i.e. blood splattering).
> Finally let me say that I think that generally WDI did a fine job
>with it, regardless of what anyone thinks of the premise.
At the risk of starting a debate--which I don't want to--about the
perils of a sliding tolerance of violence in our modern culture, that _is_
at the root of my point. Just because there is a "change in the general
public" that makes violence more tolerable, I think it is a mistake for
Disney to play to that level.
Look, I watched the Road Runner cartoons. I saw Wile E. Coyote plunge
off the cliff about a thousand times. So far, at least, that hasn't
forced me to stockpile automatic weapons. Let's lay the overall violence
question aside. I concede as fact that the effect of violence on society
is difficult to track, and even more difficult to debate.
However, I _do_ think it is a mistake for Disney to give up the MK's
_one_ differentiating factor in the theme park marketplace: it's
overriding innocence. I hope that this is not an indication that Disney
is going to "join the crowd", rather than lead it.
You also bring up another point that I haven't even discussed: that the
ride is not really up to Disney's standards, as far as entertainment
value. Sure, it is shocking, but _anyone_ can turn out the lights and
scare people by shouting "boo" at the right moments. After riding AE a
few times, how entertaining can it really be?
One of the best and most fascinating things about the MK are the
timeless nature of the rides. The Pirates of the Caribbean is an
endlessly entertaining attraction, and it is because of the level of
_detail_ in the ride. There always seems to be something new to look at,
which _rewards_ repeat riders. The same can be said for the Haunted
Mansion, Small World, etc. Those rides are true examples of
"imagineering" and are, well, "magical".
In contrast, AE seems kind of..."cheap". Not cheap in a monetary sense,
because I don't doubt it was very expensive; but cheap in imagination. It
just feels like the designers shot for the lowest common denominator, and
never really tried to rise above it. The story and effects seem copied
from that of a video game.
I gladly pay more to visit a Disney theme park, because I expect the
best; I expect magic. To me, this isn't magic.
--Bob
--
Bob Arthur | "Spare the duct tape,
VP of Marketing & Product Development | spoil the job"
Arthur Technology | - Red Green
____________________________________________________________________________
Sam & Ella's Chicken Stand
On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Bob Arthur say:
> In contrast, AE seems kind of..."cheap". Not cheap in a monetary sense,
> because I don't doubt it was very expensive; but cheap in imagination. It
> just feels like the designers shot for the lowest common denominator, and
> never really tried to rise above it.
Well, that IS how you terrify people, which was their intent
("ExtraTERRORestrial"). You pretty much have to just yell BOO! to scare
the krap out of someone sitting in a chair that doesn't go anywhere. By
it's very nature, you HAVE to go for something very low, very gut level.
I mean, the Haunted Mansion is very well done, very cool, and very
imaginative, but all it can do is be eerie. Basically, the only way to
really give you a good scare is to have those corpses popping outta the
graves at the end. That still startles me, even tho I know it's coming.
I think they did a great job...no one complains about the similar effects
in HISTA or Muppet 4D...
I still wish it was a real Aliens alien, tho.
j
FDC - J. Thaddeus Toad
7 days to go!
Dan
On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Bob Arthur wrote:
> I dispute your claim that people who enter AE get what they want. Being
> in the Magic Kingdom is a...lulling...experience. Everything is a little
> gentler, a little safer, a little more cheerful than real life; and that's
> the way it was designed. If you lose your new hat, someone will get you a
> new one. If you drop your ice cream, someone will get you a new one. It
> seems perfectly normal to get a hug from a 5 foot duck...
>
> All of this is exclusive to the MK itself, and doesn't really extend in
> the same way to the other areas of WDW. Not to be a total polyanna, but
> the MK is "special". That's why it's timeless.
You would be better off to dispute his claim by saying that YOU
didn't get what you want from Alien Encounter, instead of assuming that
everyone who visits this attraction has the same opinions that you do,
Bob. It sounds like the description you are looking for about Magic
Kingdom is "fantasy". Everything in the park does have that extra degree
of "better than you could have imagined yourself". It makes for a very
special feeling when you leave the real world and enter the one created
by Disney. But after spending a summer living on Disney proptery in
Orlando, I take such comforts for granted throughout the Disney WORLD,
and not just the Magic Kingdom. Everything about Reedy Creek is a little
safer, softer, and prettier than real life.
But what's more important than any of these is theme. It is so
obvious from any vantage point throughout the World that every little
detail has been meticulously though out to control exactly what one
experiences. Fortunately in the New Tomorowland, Disney has used a little
bit of reality in its themeing. Who's to say the future will be as
wonderful as most of Tomorrowland predicts? AE gives all of us who have a
little pessimism in our blood something to look forward to :)
>
> You also bring up another point that I haven't even discussed: that the
> ride is not really up to Disney's standards, as far as entertainment
> value. Sure, it is shocking, but _anyone_ can turn out the lights and
> scare people by shouting "boo" at the right moments. After riding AE a
> few times, how entertaining can it really be?
>
> One of the best and most fascinating things about the MK are the
> timeless nature of the rides. The Pirates of the Caribbean is an
> endlessly entertaining attraction, and it is because of the level of
> _detail_ in the ride. There always seems to be something new to look at,
> which _rewards_ repeat riders. The same can be said for the Haunted
> Mansion, Small World, etc. Those rides are true examples of
> "imagineering" and are, well, "magical".
> --Bob
Have you even ridden the Alien Encounter a few times yet? Ever since the
first cast preview, I have enjoyed viewing the Alien Encounter each time
I make my way to Tomorrowland (I can still see those little kids looking
in from outside through the bubble windows and seeing us in the preview
area after the other cast members who worked on the ride swore that the
guests couldn't see us riding!). The ride is obviously not "in the dark"
the entire time and it is always fun to search for new effects that I
may have missed previously, just like on every ride, preshow, and queue
throughout Disney WORLD.
I guess it boils down to how much this entire discussion has amazed me.
It could be that I just don't scare and took this attraction for what
it was meant to be from day one: a technology exhibit gone awry by
overeager management, not a horrible demoralizing Magic-ruining
disaster as you insist on making it out to be. And how could you be
afraid of Skippy?, or the cold water they drip on you that's supposed to
be blood? or alien venom? Whatever Bob.....
-Dan
__
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MM MMMM MM OO OO NN NNNN TT UU UU May 16th. For the latest
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Kjcottrell
In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.960427002802.12109A-100000@willow>, Dan
<d...@grove.ufl.edu> writes:
> But what's more important than any of these is theme. It is so
>obvious from any vantage point throughout the World that every little
>detail has been meticulously though out to control exactly what one
>experiences.
You learn how much they meticulously go over things when something they
have no control over (and/or have not yet thought of) happens. Some of my
worst experiences at WDW have been when they had to *think on their feet*.
The CMs can't think of all the possibilities when they are put on the
spot to move into action. This isn't to put down the CMs, they are doing
what they are supposed to, but every once and a while some rare occurance
does pop up that the folks at WDW have not thought of how to handle. I
usually understand (and help others understand) what has happened and why
they aren't handling everything like we expect from *Disney Standards*.
Kenny Cottrell
L G
mcl...@raleigh.ibm.com (Jim McLean) wrote:
>In <4lgfde$6sn$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>,
>ALAN TAFF <10073...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>>I personally think that Pirates of the Caribbean is far more
>>effensive than Alien Encounter. In Pirates you get pirates
>>holding women's knickers in the hands, pirates hanging a mayor,
>>pirates getting completely pissed, pirates selling women, pirates
>>chasing women, pirates tieing people up, and pirates shooting
>>women. This is far more offensive, and sexist than anything
>>experienced in Alien Encounter.
Why does everyone get offended at period behavior. Do we HAVE to
1990's everything? What's the matter about show how different behavior
and ways of life hundreds of yyears ago.
Why should everything be bleached squeeky clean to appease everyone.
What's next?
Jason R
Well to sum the whole AE thing up. It comes down to one thing. What will
get em in the gate.?
Because MK has that "Softer" side thing going for it. Many teens and
pre-teens dont like the place. So, Disney wanting to get as many in as
the can went and did what any good marketing people would do. Build
something that the Pre-Teens and Teens are going to want to go on.
Ok, they may have done it cheeply and badly, but you can say thing for
sure. NOTHING IS AS BAD AS FOOD ROCKS at Epcot96!. I mean that too!.
Jay
Jason R
Member FDC {Beach Club lighting tech}
VRC Homepage, Use it to find out ALL you Disney info needs.
Http://www.vivanet.com/~thelazer
Bob Calbridge
gas...@eclipse.net (L G) wrote:
>mcl...@raleigh.ibm.com (Jim McLean) wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree. It seems to me that history itself has
probably been flavored enough by the retelling. The diorama of
Pirates of the Carribean is nothing more than a story. If stories had
to comply with the 90isms we're being being pelted with today we'd
have an extremely limited range of books, movies and television shows.
I for one can't say whether or not the perception we have of pirates
is correct, but we do know that there are, and have always been, bad
people in the world. Hiding the facts from people, even children, is
doing them a disfavor. How are they going to be prepared to deal with
the world when they don't know it's complexity.
POtC doesn't hold pirates up as role models. Why do some people seem
to feel that Disney, or any other organization, is trying to corrupt
our society? Is it because of the voices in their heads?
Don Reagin
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960426...@paris-gw.cs.miami.edu> Sam & Ella's Chicken Stand <j...@winona.cs.miami.edu> writes:
>I mean, the Haunted Mansion is very well done, very cool, and very
>imaginative, but all it can do is be eerie. Basically, the only way to
>really give you a good scare is to have those corpses popping outta the
>graves at the end. That still startles me, even tho I know it's coming.
I've heard the graveyard in DLP's Phantom Manor is full of creepy skeletons
and decomposed corpses, while the US Haunted Mansions are populated mostly
with ghosts. Having never been to DLP I can't confirm this. Can someone
who's been to DLP describe the graveyard in the Manor?
Don
GREGORY T TALLEY
In <4m08ph$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> kjcot...@aol.com writes:
> In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.960427002802.12109A-100000@willow>, Dan
> <d...@grove.ufl.edu> writes:
>
> > But what's more important than any of these is theme. It is so
> >obvious from any vantage point throughout the World that every little
> >detail has been meticulously though out to control exactly what one
> >experiences.
>
> You learn how much they meticulously go over things when something they
> have no control over (and/or have not yet thought of) happens. Some of my
> worst experiences at WDW have been when they had to *think on their feet*.
> The CMs can't think of all the possibilities when they are put on the
> spot to move into action. This isn't to put down the CMs, they are doing
> what they are supposed to, but every once and a while some rare occurance
> does pop up that the folks at WDW have not thought of how to handle. I
> usually understand (and help others understand) what has happened and why
> they aren't handling everything like we expect from *Disney Standards*.
>
> Kenny Cottrell
I have visitied WDW on several occasions and have noticed the unpreparedness
of the CM"s to handle emergency - or otherwise unplanned events. I work
as an Area Manager at one of the Paramount Parks and we have to go thru
rigorous training and they do their best to make sure we can handle all
possible situations. I just think that as far as the Disney CM's are
concerned....They just get caught up in the magic as well and sometimes forget
reality. I can't say I blame them. I would be the same way.
GREG
Dan
On 29 Apr 1996, Jason R wrote:
> Ok, they may have done it cheeply and badly, but you can say thing for
> sure. NOTHING IS AS BAD AS FOOD ROCKS at Epcot96!. I mean that too!.
Food Rocks kicks butt!!! :)
Alex Kooney
<Reagind.29...@gacsrv.gactr.uga.edu> Organization: Concentric
Internet Services Distribution:
Don Reagin (Rea...@gacsrv.gactr.uga.edu) wrote: : In article
: Don
Yes, the Phantom Manor at DL Paris is much better. The Haunted House at
WDW is just a series of scary or creepy scenes that you ride through with
no apparent story to link the scenes together. However, at DLP the scenes
are linked together with a very creepy story (check out the Phantom Manor
home page). I don't know French but the ride is so well done that I could
still understand the story. I also found the scenes at Phantom Manor to
be more macabre and darker than WDW. The cemetary scene had discusting
decomposing corpse trying to get out of thier coffins, a decomposing dog
barking at the guests, and the Phantom standing over an open grave
laughing at you. I could see young children getting really scared! I
have a trip report from DLP at my home page that describes the Phantom
Manor ride in more detail.
Alex
http://www.cris.com/~drmobius/wdw.shtml
Sam Ault
Alex Kooney wrote:
> Yes, the Phantom Manor at DL Paris is much better. The Haunted House at
> WDW is just a series of scary or creepy scenes that you ride through with
> no apparent story to link the scenes together. However, at DLP the scenes
> are linked together with a very creepy story (check out the Phantom Manor
> home page). I don't know French but the ride is so well done that I could
> still understand the story. I also found the scenes at Phantom Manor to
> be more macabre and darker than WDW. The cemetary scene had discusting
> decomposing corpse trying to get out of thier coffins, a decomposing dog
> barking at the guests, and the Phantom standing over an open grave
> laughing at you. I could see young children getting really scared! I
> have a trip report from DLP at my home page that describes the Phantom
> Manor ride in more detail.
>
> Alex
> http://www.cris.com/~drmobius/wdw.shtml
I can confirm this. Euro-Disneys Phantom Manor would never fly in the
US for it's darker content. The Phantom is very creepy looking and the
decomposing bodies are pretty gross. It's a great ride. At the end you
go through a old west "Ghost Town" and theres a table in a saloon with
invisible poker players throwing cards on the table and smoking (A 10.5
on the cool scale). I got the whole ride on videotape and it's fun to
watch it after returning from WDW.
Sam Ault
Disney junkie, Star Wars fan, drunk, and all-around cool guy.
Mike Pilman
Greeting everyone,
My wife and I are in training for our next trip to WDW.
We were wondering how far it is around the World Showcase.
It might be interesting to know some other distances in
the parks.
Thanks in advance
mike
Dan
The World Showcase Promenade is 1.3 miles long... straight from my
handy-dandy cast-member "That's a Fact" pocket guide :)
Todd J. Puccio
Drmo...@cris.com (Alex Kooney) writes:
> <Reagind.29...@gacsrv.gactr.uga.edu> Organization: Concentric
>Internet Services Distribution:
>Don Reagin (Rea...@gacsrv.gactr.uga.edu) wrote: : In article
><Pine.SUN.3.91.960426...@paris-gw.cs.miami.edu> Sam &
>Ella's Chicken Stand <j...@winona.cs.miami.edu> writes:
>: >I mean, the Haunted Mansion is very well done, very cool, and very :
>>imaginative, but all it can do is be eerie. Basically, the only way to :
>>really give you a good scare is to have those corpses popping outta the :
>>graves at the end. That still startles me, even tho I know it's coming.
I admit I have only seen WDW's HM. However, its eerie nature is what
separates it from the carnival spook house.
Who wouldn't jump when something pops out. My own Mother scares
me when she jumps from around an unexpected corner.
IMHO - that's a "cheap" scare
It takes a bit more to create a truly spooky atmosphere where,
what you can imagine is more frightening than what really happens.
Doom Buggies coming out from a dark nowhere.....
Cold - air blowing on my neck
Eye's following my doom buggy
Grim Grinning Ghosts Singing about their haunting exploits
Just watch Young Children at the HM
They are not startled because somthing jumped out at them
they are frightened because the 'fear' is well cultivated
by the atmosphere
>: I've heard the graveyard in DLP's Phantom Manor is full of creepy
>skeletons : and decomposed corpses, while the US Haunted Mansions are
>populated mostly : with ghosts. Having never been to DLP I can't confirm
>this. Can someone : who's been to DLP describe the graveyard in the
>Manor?
>: Don
>Yes, the Phantom Manor at DL Paris is much better. The Haunted House at
>WDW is just a series of scary or creepy scenes that you ride through with
>no apparent story to link the scenes together. However, at DLP the scenes
>are linked together with a very creepy story (check out the Phantom Manor
>home page). I don't know French but the ride is so well done that I could
>still understand the story. I also found the scenes at Phantom Manor to
>be more macabre and darker than WDW. The cemetary scene had discusting
>decomposing corpse trying to get out of thier coffins, a decomposing dog
>barking at the guests, and the Phantom standing over an open grave
>laughing at you. I could see young children getting really scared! I
>have a trip report from DLP at my home page that describes the Phantom
>Manor ride in more detail.
>Alex
>http://www.cris.com/~drmobius/wdw.shtml
This sounds great! I hope I go one day.
todd
puc...@mail.firn.edu
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd J. Puccio NOVA/Southeastern University
Technical Services Librarian Health Professions Library
(305) 949-4000 x4400 1750 NE 167 Street
GJDOYLE
I am not sure where I heard this, but I think it is about 1.5 miles around
World Showcase. You can take the double decker bus around or you can take
a boat across the lake. I think it is faster to walk.
Don Bertino
Previously Rea...@gacsrv.gactr.uga.edu wrote:
>In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960426...@paris-gw.cs.miami.edu> Sam & Ella's Chicken Stand <j...@winona.cs.miami.edu> writes:
>
>>I mean, the Haunted Mansion is very well done, very cool, and very
>>imaginative, but all it can do is be eerie. Basically, the only way to
>>really give you a good scare is to have those corpses popping outta the
>>graves at the end. That still startles me, even tho I know it's coming.
>
>
>and decomposed corpses, while the US Haunted Mansions are populated mostly
>with ghosts. Having never been to DLP I can't confirm this. Can someone
>who's been to DLP describe the graveyard in the Manor?
To see a great web site with alot of pictures, check out Steve
Ziolkowski's Phantom Manor web site (and his Haunted Mansion one too)
http://www.rhythm.com/~stevez/phantomManor.html
http://www.rhythm.com/~stevez/hauntedMansion.html
don
--
ber...@netcom.com ____/^\_____________________________________
Disney ascii art & / \ || FDC MCP || / \
animations are at <______\ [] [] [] || [] [] [] || [] [] [] /______>
http://www.calweb.com \----------------||----------||----------------/===
/~bertino===============\______________||__________||______________/=====
Dynamite Disney Document of the Day (available at the above FTP site):
** monottc.wav "For those of you remaining on board, our next stop is the
T&T Center"
sso...@delphi.com
eek gads!!!! Whats with all this PC business? Its Disneyland not a
political statement.
tv's Spatch
In article <4m1fci$3...@news.dcccd.edu>,
Exactement. Heck, at the end of the ride, the pirates end up in jail,
eh? Well, most of the pirates. SOme of 'em live long enough to die in
their treasure caverns, sure. But some of 'em are in jail still! Hah!
And in this day and age, can a kid REALLY run away and become an evil
nasty pirate? I think not.
--
tv's Spatch, MSTie #43790 and bastard spawn of Norman Rockwell
Pick Up The Phone Booth and Die: http://www.javanet.com/~spatula/booth.html
Do you sing like Olive Oyl on purpose?
You guys must be into the Eurythmics. - TMBG
David Neely
In article <4m0ljt$r...@lunar.eclipse.net>, gas...@eclipse.net says...
Why does everyone get offended at period behavior. Do we HAVE to
1990's everything? What's the matter about show how different behavior
and ways of life hundreds of yyears ago.
Why should everything be bleached squeeky clean to appease everyone.
What's next?
I agree, people should lighten up. I'd hate an attraction that showed pirates
building homes for the homeless and donating to charity, if you don't like
pirates and pirate activity, simply dont ride a ride named "Pirates of the
Carribean". Go ride the merry go round or something...
dave
David Neely
In article <4m1buq$i...@vivanews.vivanet.com>, thel...@vivanet.com
says...
Ok, they may have done it cheeply and badly, but you can say thing for
sure. NOTHING IS AS BAD AS FOOD ROCKS at Epcot96!. I mean that
too!.
Jay
Food Rocks isnt that bad, you have to admit its better than "Kitchen Cabaret"!
Remember "veggie veggie fruit fruit"? ugg...
dave
John C. Lewandowski
Close, but 1.5 miles isn't correct. I was once a CM at EPCOT and was
asked that very question. When I called for the info, they did not have
exactly what the guest (and the original poster) wanted, but I wrote what
I was given in my little notebook (still have it after all these years!)
and here is what I have:
Distance from American Adventure to Spaceship Earth - Direct line 2,800
feet (.53 miles)
--
Total distance - Starting EC Min Gate through Communicore East (now
Innoventions) around lagoon, through Communicore West (again, now
Innoventions) and back to Main Gate - 8,500 feet (1.6 miles)
To get across the lagoon when at Showcase Plaza, it is usually quicker to
walk, unless a boat is just arriving at the dock and there is no line,
or you just arrive to a bus stop and there is no line. If you have to
wait about 5 minutes for anything, it is safe to say that it is usually
quicker to walk.
--
-John
John C Lewandowski
lewa...@rmii.com
Doug Krause
In article <4m6jsh$n...@kona.javanet.com>,
tv's Spatch <spa...@kona.javanet.com> wrote:
#Exactement. Heck, at the end of the ride, the pirates end up in jail,
Are those the pirates or their prisoners?
--
Doug Krause di...@lido.com http://www.lido.com/
"The circle is now complete. The Circle of Life!" -Mufasa Vader
Doug Krause
In article <4m6c4q$k...@alterdial.uu.net>,
David Neely <dne...@atlcom.net> wrote:
#In article <4m0ljt$r...@lunar.eclipse.net>, gas...@eclipse.net says...
#Why does everyone get offended at period behavior. Do we HAVE to
#1990's everything? What's the matter about show how different behavior
#and ways of life hundreds of yyears ago.
#Why should everything be bleached squeeky clean to appease everyone.
#What's next?
#
#I agree, people should lighten up. I'd hate an attraction that showed pirates
#building homes for the homeless and donating to charity, if you don't like
#pirates and pirate activity, simply dont ride a ride named "Pirates of the
#Carribean". Go ride the merry go round or something...
Naw, that's un-PC too. Using animals for people's pleasure... Eeek! :-)
ROBISON_III_WILLIAM_C
HI:
Pirates not role models? Are you sure?!
Damn... Okay guys, better get those fire extinguishers out!
Well, NOW SOMEBODY TELL'S ME! ;)
--
"All men die, but not all men truly live."
Braveheart, 1995
Will Robison: FDC Taran: FDC Dr. Bunson Honeydew: RAD HOST
Dan
On Wed, 1 May 1996, Sam wrote:
> Wow. I would kill for one of those guides. Don't suppose you would
> want to sell it ;o)
I have both a Fall/Winter 1994 (Innovations cover) and a Spring/Summer 95
(Celebration cover).
You realize that they are just 28 page 3"x6" factbooks, right? and that
they are special to me and I'd be spoiling the "magic".
But what are they worth to you anyway? :)
Dave Quiles
I think it is about a mile because my mother ran a 2 mile
Fun Run there in 1994 (I ran the Walt Disney World Marathon-
26.2 miles, a tad farther, eh...) and she said that she had
to go twice around the World Showcase lagoon...
Dave Quiles
Future WDWCP Castmember
T minus 26 days and counting...
mary ann mehal
I take offense to your comment that Disney CM's are not prepared to
deal with emergencies or other unforeseen circumstances. I have worked
at WDW for over a year (total) and have never had that experience.
CM's are trained very well and are prepared to handle situations just
as well as people at Paramount Parks.
GTTA...@vax1.acs.jmu.edu (GREGORY T TALLEY) wrote:
>
> In <4m08ph$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> kjcot...@aol.com writes:
>
> > In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.960427002802.12109A-100000@willow>, Dan
> > <d...@grove.ufl.edu> writes:
> >
> > > But what's more important than any of these is theme. It is so
> > >obvious from any vantage point throughout the World that every little
> > >detail has been meticulously though out to control exactly what one
> > >experiences.
> >
SDahlem
I believe it is 1.6 miles because it was too far to have a parade although
they built the best parade sound system into Epcot and only used it a
coulpe of times before they realized it was to foar for the performers to
dance.
Bill Rothe
In article <4m6c4q$k...@alterdial.UU.NET>, dne...@atlcom.net (David Neely) writes:
|> Subject: Re: Pirates Changes? (was: Alien Encounter ride)
|> From: dne...@atlcom.net (David Neely)
|> Date: 1 May 1996 00:44:10 GMT
|>
|> I agree, people should lighten up. I'd hate an attraction that showed pirates
|>
for human enjoyment.
There should be an even number of humans depicted on the carousel that
animals could ride to even the score...
ow! Ow! Just kidding...;)
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>|
| "It's like I've always said. You can get more with a kind |
| word and a two by four than with just a kind word." |
| |
| -Marcus Cole |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ro...@ug.eds.com ** Opinions stated here are not those of EDS ** |
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>|
Don Bertino
Previously ro...@teksun30.ug.eds.com wrote:
>In article <4m6c4q$k...@alterdial.UU.NET>, dne...@atlcom.net (David Neely) writes:
>|> Subject: Re: Pirates Changes? (was: Alien Encounter ride)
>|> From: dne...@atlcom.net (David Neely)
>|> Date: 1 May 1996 00:44:10 GMT
>|>
>|> In article <4m0ljt$r...@lunar.eclipse.net>, gas...@eclipse.net says...
>|> Why does everyone get offended at period behavior. Do we HAVE to
>|> 1990's everything? What's the matter about show how different behavior
>|> and ways of life hundreds of yyears ago.
>|> Why should everything be bleached squeeky clean to appease everyone.
>|> What's next?
>|>
>|> I agree, people should lighten up. I'd hate an attraction that showed pirates
>|> building homes for the homeless and donating to charity, if you don't like
>|> pirates and pirate activity, simply dont ride a ride named "Pirates of the
>|> Carribean". Go ride the merry go round or something...
>|>
> Merry-go-rounds demonstrate the deliberate enslavement of animals
> for human enjoyment.
>
> There should be an even number of humans depicted on the carousel that
> animals could ride to even the score...
I take it you have never been to "The House on the Rock" in Wisconsin? :)
> ow! Ow! Just kidding...;)
SSSSPPPPLLLLOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHH!!!!! ;)
Your welcome!
don
--
ber...@netcom.com ____/^\_____________________________________
Disney ascii art & / \ || FDC MCP || / \
animations are at <______\ [] [] [] || [] [] [] || [] [] [] /______>
http://www.calweb.com \----------------||----------||----------------/===
/~bertino===============\______________||__________||______________/=====
Dynamite Disney Document of the Day (available at the above FTP site):
** Attraction Descriptions/Scripts: WDW.the.lion.king.attraction.Z
SLZ
On Mon, 29 Apr 1996 04:08:27 GMT, bcalb...@dcccd.edu (Bob Calbridge)
wrote:
>gas...@eclipse.net (L G) wrote:
>
>>mcl...@raleigh.ibm.com (Jim McLean) wrote:
>
>>>In <4lgfde$6sn$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>,
>>>ALAN TAFF <10073...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>
>>>>I personally think that Pirates of the Caribbean is far more
>>>>effensive than Alien Encounter. In Pirates you get pirates
>>>>holding women's knickers in the hands, pirates hanging a mayor,
>>>>pirates getting completely pissed, pirates selling women, pirates
>>>>chasing women, pirates tieing people up, and pirates shooting
>>>>women. This is far more offensive, and sexist than anything
>>>>experienced in Alien Encounter.
>
>>Why does everyone get offended at period behavior. Do we HAVE to
>>1990's everything? What's the matter about show how different behavior
>>and ways of life hundreds of yyears ago.
>>Why should everything be bleached squeeky clean to appease everyone.
>>What's next?
>
>I wholeheartedly agree. It seems to me that history itself has
>probably been flavored enough by the retelling. The diorama of
>Pirates of the Carribean is nothing more than a story. If stories had
>to comply with the 90isms we're being being pelted with today we'd
>have an extremely limited range of books, movies and television shows.
>I for one can't say whether or not the perception we have of pirates
>is correct, but we do know that there are, and have always been, bad
>people in the world. Hiding the facts from people, even children, is
>doing them a disfavor. How are they going to be prepared to deal with
>the world when they don't know it's complexity.
>
>POtC doesn't hold pirates up as role models. Why do some people seem
>to feel that Disney, or any other organization, is trying to corrupt
>our society? Is it because of the voices in their heads?
>
>Bob Calbridge = bcalb...@dcccd.edu
>Senior Network Systems Programmer
>Postmaster, Cook, Bottle Washer
>
Why is it people expect pirates to behave differently at disney?
(I know, because it is disney)
Do people watch a pirate movie and expect to see pirates behaving
nicely?