More General notes and other stuff...

[Keane]

We'll do the on to off-topic slide again.

Fast Pass return time enforcement:
There are reports on SGT (http://www.stupidguesttricks.com)
that Disney is going to start enforcing Fast Pass return times.
(Go to the WDW forum. I don't think you have to register to
get there...) This'll put a crimp on attraction greets...


Disney Visa upgrade:
Way back in Nov 2008, Disney Visa surveyed a few of us about
the Rewards Card. (Gave us $20 to fill it out, too.)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.disney.parks/browse_thread/thread/3e8626d6ae110ad9/6bf4ca0499dc268a?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=visa+survey+keane#6bf4ca0499dc268a

Well, evidently Disney/Chase has finally decided on an upgrade
program:

https://www.chase.com/online/Credit-Cards/disney-premier-card.htm

For $49, you get double the points (2%) on gas, groceries, restaurants
and Disney locations, plus another half-dozen card designs.

Now, when Citibank decided to destroy the Shell Mastercard program
(they went from 5 percent back per gallon back to 5 *cents* per
gallon; gas here is over $3.50, you do the math), I got a BoA card
that gives me 3% on gas, 2% on groceries, and 1% on everything
else, with no annual fee. (And a $100 sign up bonus.)

Now, I like some of the card designs for the premier Disney Visa
card, but overall, I'd give the upgrade a fail. Sorcerer Mickey is not
worth $49/year, and I'd have to charge more than $6000 at Disney
and at restaurants, just to break even. The BoA card now gets used
for gas and groceries, but my Disney card is still used for everything
else...


Transformers, the Ride - 3D:
The new attraction at Universal Studios Hollywood is opening in
May 2012. (Apparently the attraction opened at US Singapore a
couple of months ago.) A flyer for the ride came in Transformers 3:
Dark of the Moon 3-D Blu-Ray that was just released. (And yes, I
thoroughly enjoyed watching Chicago get the snot beat out of it.)

It's supposed to be based on Spiderman's technology, except the
ride vehicles will travel over two levels.

I'm hoping this is what's replacing Jaws in USF...

(This was actually mentioned in a thread over two years ago:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.disney.parks/browse_thread/thread/254aafb7fe67c3f5/2a3bd594dc0b3757?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=transformers+keane#2a3bd594dc0b3757)


And finally, anyone eaten at Liberty Tree Tavern recently? Any good?

Keane
--
When stars are born, They possess a gift or two,
One of them is this, They have the power to make a wish come true...
-- Wishes
Visit my site: http://keanespics.com

[Rudeney]

On 2/9/2012 5:55 AM, Keane wrote:
> We'll do the on to off-topic slide again.
>
> Fast Pass return time enforcement:
> There are reports on SGT (http://www.stupidguesttricks.com)
> that Disney is going to start enforcing Fast Pass return times.
> (Go to the WDW forum. I don't think you have to register to
> get there...) This'll put a crimp on attraction greets...
>
>
> Disney Visa upgrade:
> Way back in Nov 2008, Disney Visa surveyed a few of us about
> the Rewards Card. (Gave us $20 to fill it out, too.)
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.disney.parks/browse_thread/thread/3e8626d6ae110ad9/6bf4ca0499dc268a?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=visa+survey+keane#6bf4ca0499dc268a
>

that sucks! I know that it probable should be enforced, but hopefully
there will be some leeway. I would be really pissed to get turned away
from a popular attraction for being 15 minutes late for my FP return
because I was stuck on a TT breakdown.

> Well, evidently Disney/Chase has finally decided on an upgrade
> program:
>
> https://www.chase.com/online/Credit-Cards/disney-premier-card.htm
>
> For $49, you get double the points (2%) on gas, groceries, restaurants
> and Disney locations, plus another half-dozen card designs.
>
> Now, when Citibank decided to destroy the Shell Mastercard program
> (they went from 5 percent back per gallon back to 5 *cents* per
> gallon; gas here is over $3.50, you do the math), I got a BoA card
> that gives me 3% on gas, 2% on groceries, and 1% on everything
> else, with no annual fee. (And a $100 sign up bonus.)
>
> Now, I like some of the card designs for the premier Disney Visa
> card, but overall, I'd give the upgrade a fail. Sorcerer Mickey is not
> worth $49/year, and I'd have to charge more than $6000 at Disney
> and at restaurants, just to break even. The BoA card now gets used
> for gas and groceries, but my Disney card is still used for everything
> else...

IT is all just another way for the credit card companies to make more
money. I Mean, really how hard is it to put a different picture on the
card? Especially when Chase already lets you design your own
(copyrighted material not withstanding). After years of experience in
the industry, the best advice I can give anyone is to stick with charge
card like Amex. otherwise, you will fall prey to their games and you
will lose.

>
> Transformers, the Ride - 3D:
> The new attraction at Universal Studios Hollywood is opening in
> May 2012. (Apparently the attraction opened at US Singapore a
> couple of months ago.) A flyer for the ride came in Transformers 3:
> Dark of the Moon 3-D Blu-Ray that was just released. (And yes, I
> thoroughly enjoyed watching Chicago get the snot beat out of it.)
>
> It's supposed to be based on Spiderman's technology, except the
> ride vehicles will travel over two levels.
>
> I'm hoping this is what's replacing Jaws in USF...
>
> (This was actually mentioned in a thread over two years ago:
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.disney.parks/browse_thread/thread/254aafb7fe67c3f5/2a3bd594dc0b3757?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=transformers+keane#2a3bd594dc0b3757)
>
>
>

sounds like an interesting ride. I have never been to USF so I have no
clue about Spiderman, but everyone i know who has done it says it is
really great and blows away anything at WDW, at least from a
techno-thrill perspective.



--

- RODNEY

Next WDW Vacation?
Who knows!

Need to know more about RADP (rec.arts.disney.parks)?

http://www.radp.org
http://allears.net/btp/radp_bk.htm
http://allears.net/tp/abrev.htm

Are you still accessing RADP via Google? Why?
Get instructions on how to access to the "real"
RADP Usenet Group here:

http://meets.radp.org/usenet.htm

[Debbi]

On 2/9/2012 6:55 AM, Keane wrote:
> We'll do the on to off-topic slide again.
>
> Fast Pass return time enforcement:
> There are reports on SGT (http://www.stupidguesttricks.com)
> that Disney is going to start enforcing Fast Pass return times.
> (Go to the WDW forum. I don't think you have to register to
> get there...) This'll put a crimp on attraction greets...
>

As I understand it, management is trying to pull-in the abuse of the
system, meaning that the CMs were simply reminded about the policy and
asked to start using a smaller window for late arrivals. I hope this
means that a breakdown on another attraction won't be an issue but
returning 4 hours late because 'nobody checks' will be stopped.

ab

Reminder: Grand Gatherings Safari Celebration Dinner, Good Morning
Gathering and International Dinner & IllumiNations Dessert Reception
will no longer be offered at the Walt Disney World Resort as of January
28, 2012

[Lisa Cubbon]

On 2/9/12 4:24 PM, Debbi wrote:
> On 2/9/2012 6:55 AM, Keane wrote:
>> We'll do the on to off-topic slide again.
>>
>> Fast Pass return time enforcement:
>> There are reports on SGT (http://www.stupidguesttricks.com)
>> that Disney is going to start enforcing Fast Pass return times.
>> (Go to the WDW forum. I don't think you have to register to
>> get there...) This'll put a crimp on attraction greets...
>>
>
> As I understand it, management is trying to pull-in the abuse of the
> system, meaning that the CMs were simply reminded about the policy and
> asked to start using a smaller window for late arrivals. I hope this
> means that a breakdown on another attraction won't be an issue but
> returning 4 hours late because 'nobody checks' will be stopped.

I understand that but it makes me a tad sad. I never thought of it as
abuse to show up late but I guess some guests would use it that way.
Pity...

Lisa

[Lisa Cubbon]

Amex gets my business (Delta pts that we do use) and Chase Disney Visa
gets all the rest. Not interested in paying more for it either.

Ah well...


Thanks, Keane

[Lisa Cubbon]

I know I owe a TR from the two days I spent at Disneyland last week (
and the TR will come soon.. Watch for it. I promise) but we got FPs for
Soarin and went over to Toy Story Mania. Just a direct line (well, as
direct as it gets at DCA!) and we got back to Soarin about five minutes
outside our window. And we were with some of my siblings who got their
FPs before we got ours. If the CMs are aware of wait times, it might
work but gees it was a race.

Lisa

Lisa

[BigBob]

On Feb 9, 7:31 pm, Lisa Cubbon <cub...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On 2/9/12 4:24 PM, Debbi wrote:
>
> > On 2/9/2012 6:55 AM, Keane wrote:
> >> We'll do the on to off-topic slide again.
>
> >> Fast Pass return time enforcement:
> >> There are reports on SGT (http://www.stupidguesttricks.com)
> >> that Disney is going to start enforcing Fast Pass return times.
> >> (Go to the WDW forum. I don't think you have to register to
> >> get there...) This'll put a crimp on attraction greets...
>
> > As I understand it, management is trying to pull-in the abuse of the
> > system, meaning that the CMs were simply reminded about the policy and
> > asked to start using a smaller window for late arrivals. I hope this
> > means that a breakdown on another attraction won't be an issue but
> > returning 4 hours late because 'nobody checks' will be stopped.
>
> I understand that but it makes me a tad sad.  I never thought of it as
> abuse to show up late but I guess some guests would use it that way.
> Pity...
>
> Lisa

"I understand that but it makes me a tad sad. I never thought of it
as
abuse to show up late but I guess some guests would use it that way.
Pity... "

YES, the *same* guests that were making four and five different dining
reservations, for the same general time period, so that *they* could
eat at the one most convenient for them.
The rest of us that would have loved to have a dining
reservation? ...they could care less.
Cancel a reservation they no longer needed? ...not their problem.

Guests gaming the system has become as big a problem as Disney gaming
the guests. ROFL
Kind of a "chicken v. egg which came first" discussion -- but both
Disney and guests are responding, often poorly, to each other's
attempt to gain some control.

But, make no mistake, there are vast and increasing numbers of
inconsiderate douchebag guests.
Remember to thank "them" next time you have to secure your dining
reservations with a credit card in advance.
(Hint: they're probably the ones texting on their cell-phones during
dark theatre attractions, e.g. The American Adventure, and/or taking
flash pictures on dark rides and attractions.)

[Rudeney]

On 2/15/2012 12:47 PM, BigBob wrote:
>
> YES, the *same* guests that were making four and five different dining
> reservations, for the same general time period, so that *they* could
> eat at the one most convenient for them.
> The rest of us that would have loved to have a dining
> reservation? ...they could care less.
> Cancel a reservation they no longer needed? ...not their problem.

But remember, in the old ADR system (which really seemed to work well
before all this DDP nonsense), it wasn't an issue to have multiples or
not cancel; it had no effect on available tables.

> Guests gaming the system has become as big a problem as Disney gaming
> the guests. ROFL
> Kind of a "chicken v. egg which came first" discussion -- but both
> Disney and guests are responding, often poorly, to each other's
> attempt to gain some control.

I'd say the big problem with dining has been created by Disney. I can't
recall not one single person ever saying that they wanted dining prices
to skyrocket and quality and availability of food to plummet. And this
seems to be a WDW thing because I found plenty of great food and
availability at DLR. My guess is that the vast majority of DLR guests
are locals that visit regularly and wouldn't stand for the crappy dining
environment at WDW, but they can get away with it in Florida since so
many guests there are first-timers on their once-in-a-lifetime big
family Disney vacation and buy into the pre-planned package mentality.

> But, make no mistake, there are vast and increasing numbers of
> inconsiderate douchebag guests.

It's not just WDW guests - it's everywhere. Like the people blocking
the entrance to Costco last week with a giant stroller, asking the
greeter all sort of stupid questions. When someone in the growing crowd
behind them (and surprising not me) asked if we could get buy, the dad
replied "No! Because I'm in your way and I'm not moving until I get my
questions answered!" Another Costco employee finally ushered them
aside. As I walked by, I expressed my concern for the future of their
child, given the stupidity of the parents. Oh, and not that I'm
necessarily trying to bring this back on topic, but I noticed the wife
was wearing a WDW hoody. I assume they acted the same at WDW and thus
are in the group of SG's that were talking about.

[BigBob]

On Feb 15, 2:52 pm, Rudeney <rude...@mickeypics.com> wrote:
> On 2/15/2012 12:47 PM, BigBob wrote:
>
> > YES, the *same* guests that were making four and five different dining
> > reservations, for the same general time period, so that *they* could
> > eat at the one most convenient for them.
> > The rest of us that would have loved to have a dining
> > reservation? ...they could care less.
> > Cancel a reservation they no longer needed? ...not their problem.
>
> But remember, in the old ADR system (which really seemed to work well
> before all this DDP nonsense), it wasn't an issue to have multiples or
> not cancel; it had no effect on available tables.

Except that we have had people -- right here in RADP -- that used to
brag about making multiple same time period reservations, way in
advance, as a way to outsmart Disney's hard to get a reservation when
and where you want one when you're actually at WDW.
Now that Disney added capability to their reservation system to detect
and reject multiple same time reservations by the same person, these
same people brag about using a different phone number, etc. as a way
to get around that restriction.
Now we have to have credit cards given to secure reservations -- I
hope they're happy.

> > Guests gaming the system has become as big a problem as Disney gaming
> > the guests. ROFL
> > Kind of a "chicken v. egg which came first" discussion -- but both
> > Disney and guests are responding, often poorly, to each other's
> > attempt to gain some control.
>
> I'd say the big problem with dining has been created by Disney.  I can't
> recall not one single person ever saying that they wanted dining prices
> to skyrocket and quality and availability of food to plummet.  And this
> seems to be a WDW thing because I found plenty of great food and
> availability at DLR.  My guess is that the vast majority of DLR guests
> are locals that visit regularly and wouldn't stand for the crappy dining
> environment at WDW, but they can get away with it in Florida since so
> many guests there are first-timers on their once-in-a-lifetime big
> family Disney vacation and buy into the pre-planned package mentality.

No question that Disney is responsible for ruining the dining
experience.
My comments regarding "gaming the system" include *many* more issues
than just dining.
For example, abuse of FastPass return times that I was replying to.

>
> > But, make no mistake, there are vast and increasing numbers of
> > inconsiderate douchebag guests.
>
> It's not just WDW guests - it's everywhere.  Like the people blocking
> the entrance to Costco last week with a giant stroller, asking the
> greeter all sort of stupid questions.  When someone in the growing crowd
> behind them (and surprising not me) asked if we could get buy, the dad
> replied "No! Because I'm in your way and I'm not moving until I get my
> questions answered!"  Another Costco employee finally ushered them
> aside.  As I walked by, I expressed my concern for the future of their
> child, given the stupidity of the parents.  Oh, and not that I'm
> necessarily trying to bring this back on topic, but I noticed the wife
> was wearing a WDW hoody.  I assume they acted the same at WDW and thus
> are in the group of SG's that were talking about.
>
> --
> - RODNEY

Of course "it's everywhere."

Used to be that guests at WDW behaved better than they (or the general
population?) did outside of WDW.
There was some kind of respect for the institution, if nothing else.

I think a lot of this has to do with guests "acting out" as a result
of the non-Disney way Disney runs things now.
Using dining as an example -- but I'm not talking exclusively about
dining -- people would *not* tolerate what Disney dining has become
from restaurants and food outlets in the real world.
And, in fact, they don't.
We have a term for restaurants that require reservations six-months in
advance, a $14 parking fee, a $90.53/per person cover charge, serve
inferior quality food and small portion sizes, have dumbed-down
uninspired menus, often poor service (especially if you use one of
their "dining plan" coupons), charge high-prices and assess mandatory
gratuities: CLOSED
Not "Temporarily Closed; Operates Seasonally," but permanently OUT-OF-
BUSINESS.

If you've ever been to the Grand Canyon (and I have been five times),
one of the things you will be struck by is how well-behaved and
courteous the vast majority of the visitors are.
This is the same population pool WDW guests are drawn from.
Could it just be the lack of cell-phone reception in-and-around the
Grand Canyon (my last visit was 2008) that makes the difference? ROFL

[Darrell Jefress]

On 2/15/2012 3:38 PM, in article
83bf9c32-bd18-4f94...@x19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, "BigBob"

<BlG...@hotmail.com> wrote:



> For example, abuse of FastPass return times that I was replying to.

. . . except that returning after the FP return window does not create any
negative effects on other guests. As long as one does not return *early*,
the flow of guests through the FP line is not impacted, other than in some
rare and pathological cases. This gets explained all the time in all the
forums I ever browse, but it just doesn't register with some folks.

And since the non-expiration of fast-passes is an in-writing policy at WDW,
it isn't an abuse or gaming of the system anyway. Strong speculation is
that the new policy is somehow or other in anticipation of some part of the
NextGen system that's coming up in the next couple years.

N via D

[BigBob]

On Feb 15, 7:48 pm, Darrell Jefress <eve...@tokyo.com> wrote:
> On 2/15/2012 3:38 PM, in article

> 83bf9c32-bd18-4f94-a55e-95d39fe04...@x19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, "BigBob"

>
> <BlG...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > For example, abuse of FastPass return times that I was replying to.
>
> . . . except that returning after the FP return window does not create any
> negative effects on other guests.  As long as one does not return *early*,
> the flow of guests through the FP line is not impacted, other than in some
> rare and pathological cases.  This gets explained all the time in all the
> forums I ever browse, but it just doesn't register with some folks.

I don't accept this at all.
When someone gets a FastPass from a fixed pool of FastPasses -- often
completely distributed early in the day -- they prevent other guests
from getting one.
Furthermore, when they return hours later than their time window, they
get in the way of other guests again -- guests who decided to come
back later because they didn't have a FastPass.
What should be obvious, "but it just doesn't register with some
folks," is that FastPasses have windows so that the effects of the
FastPass are spread-out and staggered over the course of the entire
day. It's not even fair to other FastPass holders who had to wait for
their window to have late-arriving FastPass users slowing-down the
FastPass benefit they waited for.

>
> And since the non-expiration of fast-passes is an in-writing policy at WDW,
> it isn't an abuse or gaming of the system anyway.  Strong speculation is
> that the new policy is somehow or other in anticipation of some part of the
> NextGen system that's coming up in the next couple years.
>
> N via D

I'd love to see the "in writing" part.
There is clearly a difference between showing guests a little courtesy
and leeway, versus guests deliberately intending to use their FastPass
any time that they want to.

On a related note, what good is getting a FastPass at Soaring (before
noon before they're all gone) that has a return window eight-hours
later?

We agree on one thing, I'm sure the NextGen FastPass sleights-of-hand
will be even more annoying.

[Rudeney]

On 2/15/2012 5:38 PM, BigBob wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2:52 pm, Rudeney<rude...@mickeypics.com> wrote:
>> On 2/15/2012 12:47 PM, BigBob wrote:
>>
>>> YES, the *same* guests that were making four and five different dining
>>> reservations, for the same general time period, so that *they* could
>>> eat at the one most convenient for them.
>>> The rest of us that would have loved to have a dining
>>> reservation? ...they could care less.
>>> Cancel a reservation they no longer needed? ...not their problem.
>>
>> But remember, in the old ADR system (which really seemed to work well
>> before all this DDP nonsense), it wasn't an issue to have multiples or
>> not cancel; it had no effect on available tables.

(NOTE: I actually meant to say, "in the old PS system...") I think the
difference with PS's is that it factored in the ability to not leave
empty tables for no-shows and so those seats became available for
walk-ups. The PS's system was sort of like FP for dining - if the PS
holders were there, they were put ahead of the line of standby guests,
but if not, standby guests were seated. Now, they don;t seem to do
this. I know that we are told that ADR's are not real "reserved
tables", but it sure seems to work that way. Especially as compared to
PS's.

>> It's not just WDW guests - it's everywhere.
>

> Of course "it's everywhere."
>
> Used to be that guests at WDW behaved better than they (or the general
> population?) did outside of WDW.
> There was some kind of respect for the institution, if nothing else.
>
> I think a lot of this has to do with guests "acting out" as a result
> of the non-Disney way Disney runs things now.
> Using dining as an example -- but I'm not talking exclusively about
> dining -- people would *not* tolerate what Disney dining has become
> from restaurants and food outlets in the real world.
> And, in fact, they don't.
> We have a term for restaurants that require reservations six-months in
> advance, a $14 parking fee, a $90.53/per person cover charge, serve
> inferior quality food and small portion sizes, have dumbed-down
> uninspired menus, often poor service (especially if you use one of
> their "dining plan" coupons), charge high-prices and assess mandatory
> gratuities: CLOSED
> Not "Temporarily Closed; Operates Seasonally," but permanently OUT-OF-
> BUSINESS.
>
> If you've ever been to the Grand Canyon (and I have been five times),
> one of the things you will be struck by is how well-behaved and
> courteous the vast majority of the visitors are.
> This is the same population pool WDW guests are drawn from.
> Could it just be the lack of cell-phone reception in-and-around the
> Grand Canyon (my last visit was 2008) that makes the difference? ROFL

It could also be the perception that Disney is a big evil corporation
and these SG's feel they are obligated to soak them for what they can
get, where the Grand Canyon is a natural treasure and not corporate
owned, so there's no sense in trying to game that system, even though I
am sure the restaurants and gift shops are terribly overpriced.

[Rudeney]

On 2/15/2012 6:48 PM, Darrell Jefress wrote:
>
> . . . except that returning after the FP return window does not create any
> negative effects on other guests. As long as one does not return *early*,
> the flow of guests through the FP line is not impacted, other than in some
> rare and pathological cases. This gets explained all the time in all the
> forums I ever browse, but it just doesn't register with some folks.

I think the only problem with late FP returns would be during hard
ticket events. In that case, they often close down parts of the queue
(or sides of the ride) and technically there shouldn't be any FP's
issued for those hours, but large groups that hoarded their FP's from
earlier could cause some logjams. But I think that's not a very common
occurrence and would be a very short-lived problem.

> And since the non-expiration of fast-passes is an in-writing policy at WDW,
> it isn't an abuse or gaming of the system anyway. Strong speculation is
> that the new policy is somehow or other in anticipation of some part of the
> NextGen system that's coming up in the next couple years.

Yep, I'll bet the plan is to make sure guests with these pre-planned
schedules make everything right on time. While overall overage wait
times would not be affected by late FP returns, anecdotal, or
instantaneous samples could be. If that happens a few times to guests
who have paid top-dollar for this new system and it causes them to miss
a must-do, I can see a problem.

[Sandi Femino]

In article <d076j71lp696svfs9...@4ax.com>,

Keane <ke...@keanespics.com> wrote:

> Now, I like some of the card designs for the premier Disney Visa
> card, but overall, I'd give the upgrade a fail. Sorcerer Mickey is not
> worth $49/year, and I'd have to charge more than $6000 at Disney
> and at restaurants, just to break even.

Got the same offer, arrived at the same conclusion...
no upgrade for me!

--


Sandi
http://capecodcards.blogspot.com/