OT Political
MEMIKI
traveling to France. You did not wait for the wounds of war to heal. You are an
American who visited a country that is anti-American; you are a Jew who visited
a country that is violently anti-Semitic. That speaks for itself. Those are the
facts -- I understand you love your country, but not the administration -- but
you chose an unusual way to demonstrate your love, loyalty and allegiance just
the same.
Those of you who are offended by my remarks, please remember I also have First
Ammendment rights. As far as I am concerned, this particular topic is
done.....life is too short! Exercise some self-control, Ed, and let it
go........
Miki
Ed Jay
>Monsier J -- No need to babble and babble. You already made your statement by
>traveling to France. You did not wait for the wounds of war to heal. You are an
>American who visited a country that is anti-American; you are a Jew who visited
>a country that is violently anti-Semitic. That speaks for itself.
I don't believe that France is anti-American. We were treated with courtesy
and made to feel welcome as I always have been in that country. Jay was
surprised because of the bad she's heard about the place and its people. I
had the opportunity to live in Strasbourg and not once did I sense any
anti-American attitude. That may not be what has been reported, but that
was our reality. Additionally, I may have been born into the Jewish faith,
but I gave it up for Christianity several years ago. While I know the Vichy
was reputed to be anti-semitic during WWII, I've never seen any signs of it
in France. Other countries, yes, but not France. Perhaps I've only been
lucky enough to miss it.
One philosophy that seems universal is that there's usually a huge
difference between a country's government (any country) and the people of
that country. Iraq is an extreme example. The government was repulsive, led
by a tyrant and anti-everyone, but the people, for the most part, are as
decent as anyone else.
>Those are the
>facts -- I understand you love your country, but not the administration -- but
>you chose an unusual way to demonstrate your love, loyalty and allegiance just
>the same.
Nah...we went on the honeymoon we couldn't go on three years ago because of
work.
>
>Those of you who are offended by my remarks, please remember I also have First
>Ammendment rights.
So noted and appreciated as much as you appreciate that those with
political leanings other than yours have the same rights.
>As far as I am concerned, this particular topic is
>done.....life is too short! Exercise some self-control, Ed, and let it
>go........
>
Life is too short to exercise any more, and I'm too old to 'let it go.' ;-)
Ed Jay (No X to reply)
Edwardyung
I think you're confused about the position of the French government. Neither
the government nor the French people are anti-Americans. I mean American
citizens in general. The French government and most of its citizens objected
to the policy of the current US administration which a significant number of US
citizens feel the same way.
I don't know Ed Jay. I don't know whether he is Jewish or not. Assuming he
is, I find your scolding him of going to France because of what you stated as
anti-semitic culture highly distasteful. He is a free man and can choose
wherever he wants to go. It would be great if he managed to change a few
anti-semitic minds over there.
Following your logic, he probably should avoid visiting quite a bit of US
territory, namely the red states Bush carried in the last election. Does that
make sense?
Edward Yung
Ed Jay
Iraq's illegal WMD sites were looted, Bush now explains
REUTERS - Sunday, Jun 22, 2003
US President George W. Bush, trying again to explain the failure to find
weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, said yesterday that suspected arms
sites had been looted in the waning days of Saddam Hussein's rule.
-------
Rumsfeld Says U.S. Will Find Iraqi WMD Evidence
June 24, 2003
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Tuesday he
believed it was "just a matter of time" before evidence of weapons of mass
destruction were found in Iraq, and that it was still early in the hunt.
<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20030624/ts_nm/iraq_usa_weapons_dc>
MEMIKI
>From: Ed Jay ed...@aes-intl.com
>Date: 6/24/2003 2:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
>I don't believe that France is anti-American. We were treated with courtesy
>and made to feel welcome as I always have been in that country. Jay was
>surprised because of the bad she's heard about the place and its people. I
>had the opportunity to live in Strasbourg and not once did I sense any
>anti-American attitude. That may not be what has been reported, but that
>was our reality.
Ed -- I have to respond to this post because it is such a nice one and what I
like to hear -- it is positive, rather than negative; it is optimistic; it is
productive in that it might help in some small way to mend affairs between
countries.
>Additionally, I may have been born into the Jewish faith,
>but I gave it up for Christianity several years ago. While I know the Vichy
>was reputed to be anti-semitic during WWII, I've never seen any signs of it
>in France. Other countries, yes, but not France. Perhaps I've only been
>lucky enough to miss it.
I am personally uncomfortable discussing this subject, but I do remember signs
in the Louis Vuitton shops to this effect...but enough said.
>One philosophy that seems universal is that there's usually a huge
>difference between a country's government (any country) and the people of
>that country. Iraq is an extreme example. The government was repulsive, led
>by a tyrant and anti-everyone, but the people, for the most part, are as
>decent as anyone else.
The same was true with Russia in the past -- people were warm and friendly --
government NOT. I have never been to Russia, but when I was associated with the
Los Angeles County Museum some years back, I assisted in bringing an art
exhibit here from Russia. I was a liaison between our curators and Russian
curators and US Consul -- I got to know their government.
>
>>Those are the
>>facts -- I understand you love your country, but not the administration --
>but
>>you chose an unusual way to demonstrate your love, loyalty and allegiance
>just
>>the same.
>
>Nah...we went on the honeymoon we couldn't go on three years ago because of
>work.
Do you know that thought crossed my mind?.........I remember you postponed your
honeymoon and your plan was to eventually go to Paris. I would have enjoyed
hearing more about your honeymoon, and less about how the world dislikes us. :)
<snip>
I now return to political hibernation.....on a good note and with a calm
feeling.
Miki
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/24/2003 2:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Miki
>
>I think you're confused about the position of the French government. Neither
>the government nor the French people are anti-Americans. I mean American
>citizens in general. The French government and most of its citizens objected
>to the policy of the current US administration which a significant number of
>US
>citizens feel the same way.
Edward --- I do want to get away from this subject now, but your post is
courteous and deserves a reply. I feel a country that not only was not an ally,
but went out of their way to cause us harm is anti-American and this affects
all American citizens. If you say France is warm and friendly and opens its
arms to welcome us, I will take that on your word. I have not been there for a
long time.
>
<snip>
>
>Following your logic, he (Ed) probably should avoid visiting quite a bit of US
>territory, namely the red states Bush carried in the last election. Does
>that
>make sense?
No more sense than you trying to follow my logic :)
Miki
Ed Jay
>>I don't believe that France is anti-American. We were treated with courtesy
>>and made to feel welcome as I always have been in that country. Jay was
>>surprised because of the bad she's heard about the place and its people. I
>>had the opportunity to live in Strasbourg and not once did I sense any
>>anti-American attitude. That may not be what has been reported, but that
>>was our reality.
>
>Ed -- I have to respond to this post because it is such a nice one and what I
>like to hear -- it is positive, rather than negative; it is optimistic; it is
>productive in that it might help in some small way to mend affairs between
>countries.
Believe it or not, I'm a human who like other humans, responds to external
stimuli. :-)
>
>>Additionally, I may have been born into the Jewish faith,
>>but I gave it up for Christianity several years ago. While I know the Vichy
>>was reputed to be anti-semitic during WWII, I've never seen any signs of it
>>in France. Other countries, yes, but not France. Perhaps I've only been
>>lucky enough to miss it.
>
>I am personally uncomfortable discussing this subject, but I do remember signs
>in the Louis Vuitton shops to this effect...but enough said.
I only do Gucci and Versace. :-)
>
>>One philosophy that seems universal is that there's usually a huge
>>difference between a country's government (any country) and the people of
>>that country. Iraq is an extreme example. The government was repulsive, led
>>by a tyrant and anti-everyone, but the people, for the most part, are as
>>decent as anyone else.
>
>The same was true with Russia in the past -- people were warm and friendly --
>government NOT. I have never been to Russia, but when I was associated with the
>Los Angeles County Museum some years back, I assisted in bringing an art
>exhibit here from Russia. I was a liaison between our curators and Russian
>curators and US Consul -- I got to know their government.
Would that be the Impressionism exhibit from the Pushkin and Hermitage?
I've been to the former Soviet Union seven times. The first time the
Vietnam War was underway. I remember the feeling of anxiety as the plane
touched down in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg). As we left the airport for
the dreaded commie abyss, the first sign of graffiti I saw was the peace
symbol! That was the introduction to as fine a group of people as I've
encountered. BTW, the Hermitage was fantastic...in many ways better than
the Louvre. If you ever get the chance, visit it. The Pushkin was
wonderful, but kind of a dreary place.
>
>>
>>>Those are the
>>>facts -- I understand you love your country, but not the administration --
>>but
>>>you chose an unusual way to demonstrate your love, loyalty and allegiance
>>just
>>>the same.
>>
>>Nah...we went on the honeymoon we couldn't go on three years ago because of
>>work.
>
>Do you know that thought crossed my mind?.........I remember you postponed your
>honeymoon and your plan was to eventually go to Paris. I would have enjoyed
>hearing more about your honeymoon, and less about how the world dislikes us. :)
I don't think the details of the honeymoon are fit for print. :-)) But,
now that you ask...we couldn't have been blessed with better weather. Paris
is as Paris has always been...wonderful with a pulse of life that I'm sure
you can recall. The Louvre was great, but the Musee d'Orsay brought tears
to our eyes it was so magnificent. The Dega, Cezanne and Van Gogh
collections were the finest I've seen anywhere. We drove to Monet's home in
Giverny and spent an afternoon in the most incredible garden I've
experienced. Then came the castles in the Loire Valley. Mind blowing! We
stayed in a 15th Century chateau in a tiny village (Noizay) near where
Leonardo da Vinci lived. A fun and educational time all the way around.
Unfortunately, the wines of the Loire aren't as extraordinary as those
found in Bordeaux, but for $5/btl, who can complain. I'm bringing a few
samples to Phoenix if you'd care to taste. :-)
>
> <snip>
>
> I now return to political hibernation.....on a good note and with a calm
>feeling.
>
Kewl. Now we can smile at each other in Phoenix. It's time for our
bi-annual hug and pledge of forgiveness. :-)
Victor Eijkhout
> I do want to get away from this subject now
Then why on earth did you start this thread?
V.
--
email me: first name at last name dot net
Victor Eijkhout
> Iraq's illegal WMD sites were looted, Bush now explains
You got that from The Onion, right?
MEMIKI
>>The same was true with Russia in the past -- people were warm and friendly
>--
>>government NOT. I have never been to Russia, but when I was associated with
>the
>>Los Angeles County Museum some years back, I assisted in bringing an art
>>exhibit here from Russia. I was a liaison between our curators and Russian
>>curators and US Consul -- I got to know their government.
>
>Would that be the Impressionism exhibit from the Pushkin and Hermitage?
>
Ed -- To reply very quickly for now, it was a Collection of Impressionism
Masters' works not seen outside of Russia. It was quite a coup for LACMA. The
events in my life since then have damaged my timeclock and memory for those
years, but it had to be 1975 or 1976 when I worked with Ben Johnson, Head of
Conservation. Do these dates match the exhibit you have in mind? My dealings
were always with Moscow. Before that time, I was with Dr. Pratapaditya Pal,
Curator of Indian and Islamic Art and Mary Kahlenberg, Curator of Textiles and
Costumes -- there were many exhibits with both departments.
What I recall in more detail are my experiences when we sent a collection of
American works to Moscow in reciprocity for their Impressionism. Dealing with
our Consul and dealing with Moscow was impossible. Our curators were very
concerned about temperature control in Moscow -- it was nonexistent. They were
concerned about the right kind of dust wipes; they were concerned about
transporting the art within the museum without large enough freight elevators
-- actually, I don't think there were freight elevators. They could only call
out of Moscow during certain hours, which were middle of night for me, and
there was always someone on the line monitoring their calls. One of the
curators was not allowed into Russia.
I got real tired of diplomacy and went over their heads and called Armand
Hammer's art curator here in L.A. for help -- she put me in touch with their
office in Moscow and they got everything I needed accomplished.
Sorry to be so vague -- I cannot find my Museum stuff -- only the letters of
recommendation from the curators. My background is not art -- I assisted the
curators in writing text books, getting and keeping them organized, and
handling the business stuff at which they were not experienced.
More later.
Miki
MEMIKI
>From: see...@for.real.addy (Victor Eijkhout)
>Date: 6/24/2003
>> I do want to get away from this subject now
>
>Then why on earth did you start this thread?
>
I did not start this thread. Somebody else did. I jumped in after it started to
support that somebody else. This is not the first time you have falsely accused
me of starting a thread and it is about time you got your facts straight,
Victor.
Miki
Miki
Ed Jay
>>From: Ed Jay
>
>>Would that be the Impressionism exhibit from the Pushkin and Hermitage?
>>
>Ed -- To reply very quickly for now, it was a Collection of Impressionism
>Masters' works not seen outside of Russia. It was quite a coup for LACMA. The
>events in my life since then have damaged my timeclock and memory for those
>years, but it had to be 1975 or 1976 when I worked with Ben Johnson, Head of
>Conservation. Do these dates match the exhibit you have in mind? My dealings
>were always with Moscow. Before that time, I was with Dr. Pratapaditya Pal,
>Curator of Indian and Islamic Art and Mary Kahlenberg, Curator of Textiles and
>Costumes -- there were many exhibits with both departments.
The exhibit I was thinking of took place about 1986/7. It was called
"Impressionist to Early Modern Paintings from the USSR." My book from the
exhibit contains a letter from then president Reagan.
>
>What I recall in more detail are my experiences when we sent a collection of
>American works to Moscow in reciprocity for their Impressionism. Dealing with
>our Consul and dealing with Moscow was impossible. Our curators were very
>concerned about temperature control in Moscow -- it was nonexistent. They were
>concerned about the right kind of dust wipes; they were concerned about
>transporting the art within the museum without large enough freight elevators
>-- actually, I don't think there were freight elevators. They could only call
>out of Moscow during certain hours, which were middle of night for me, and
>there was always someone on the line monitoring their calls. One of the
>curators was not allowed into Russia.
>
>I got real tired of diplomacy and went over their heads and called Armand
>Hammer's art curator here in L.A. for help -- she put me in touch with their
>office in Moscow and they got everything I needed accomplished.
>
You'll get a kick out of Hammer's Preface in my book..."In 1973 I arranged
the first US tour of important Impressionist and Post-Impressionist works
from the Soviet Union. It was the first time that US citizens were able to
see in their own country such a major exhibition of masterpieces from the
two leading museums of the USSR...." I knew and worked a bit Armand Hammer.
He was always one to rely on for overuse of the word "I." :-)
As to the inconveniences, monitoring of calls, etc., I could tell a bunch
of stories. One I remember vividly happened when my former wife and
traveled to Sochi to visit with some ham radio friends I had met on the
air. One of the guys said, "Please don't use any names. 'They' are probably
listening." During the conversation in my hotel room, someone mentioned
Igor's name. When they left for their hotel, a man approached them in the
lobby and asked, "Which of you is Igor?" :-)
Ed Jay
>Ed Jay <ed...@aes-intl.com> wrote:
>
>> Iraq's illegal WMD sites were looted, Bush now explains
>
>You got that from The Onion, right?
>
No. He said it in his weekly (weakly?) speech last Saturday. I found the
quote in the Taipei Times.
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/24/2003
>>>From: Ed Jay
>>
>>>Would that be the Impressionism exhibit from the Pushkin and Hermitage?
>>>
Miki wrote:
>>Ed -- To reply very quickly for now, it was a Collection of Impressionism
>>Masters' works not seen outside of Russia. It was quite a coup for LACMA.
>The
>>events in my life since then have damaged my timeclock and memory for those
>>years, but it had to be 1975 or 1976 when I worked with Ben Johnson, Head of
>>Conservation. Do these dates match the exhibit you have in mind? My dealings
>>were always with Moscow. Before that time, I was with Dr. Pratapaditya Pal,
>>Curator of Indian and Islamic Art and Mary Kahlenberg, Curator of Textiles
>and
>>Costumes -- there were many exhibits with both departments.
Ed wrote:
>The exhibit I was thinking of took place about 1986/7. It was called
>"Impressionist to Early Modern Paintings from the USSR." My book from the
>exhibit contains a letter from then president Reagan.
Ed -- That would not have been it -- My husband was ill from 1981 and died in
1987. I was not with LACMA during that time.
>>
>You'll get a kick out of Hammer's Preface in my book..."In 1973 I arranged
>the first US tour of important Impressionist and Post-Impressionist works
>from the Soviet Union. It was the first time that US citizens were able to
>see in their own country such a major exhibition of masterpieces from the
>two leading museums of the USSR...." I knew and worked a bit Armand Hammer.
>He was always one to rely on for overuse of the word "I." :-)
Yes, Yes !-- This is the exhibition to which I referred (I knew it was
somewhere in the 70's) -- Armand Hammer was on the LACMA Board of Directors. I
saw him quite often in those days in our section of the Museum. He more than
likely was the man that got Moscow to deal and send the exhibition to us.....
>As to the inconveniences, monitoring of calls, etc., I could tell a bunch
>of stories. One I remember vividly happened when my former wife and
>traveled to Sochi to visit with some ham radio friends I had met on the
>air. One of the guys said, "Please don't use any names. 'They' are probably
>listening." During the conversation in my hotel room, someone mentioned
>Igor's name. When they left for their hotel, a man approached them in the
>lobby and asked, "Which of you is Igor?" :-)
A hidden device monitoring the conversation in your hotel room? Scary!
Miki
Ed Jay
<snip>
> A hidden device monitoring the conversation in your hotel room? Scary!
>
And the car and the phone and the tables in restaurants.
Victor Eijkhout
> did not start this thread. Somebody else did. I jumped in after it
> started to support that somebody else. This is not the first time you have
> falsely accused me of starting a thread and it is about time you got your
> facts straight, Victor.
Ahem. Post <20030624163525...@mb-m03.aol.com> was yours and
it was the start of the thread. Since you're claiming it's not, kindly
give me me the message ID of its parent or eat your words and apologise.
I checked with google
(http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=e12ifvsb
unkt2nnnhjsoaq4ljfs45lc0ru%404ax.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie
%3DUTF-8%26group%3Drec.arts.dance) and they also claim that you started
this thread.
Now who is doing the false accusing and who needs to get facts straight?
Admit it. Your post has no parent.
Victor Eijkhout
> >> Iraq's illegal WMD sites were looted, Bush now explains
> >
> >You got that from The Onion, right?
> >
> No. He said it in his weekly (weakly?) speech last Saturday. I found the
> quote in the Taipei Times.
I know. But this is so bizarre you couldn't make it up if you had wanted
to.
Ed Jay
>Ed Jay <ed...@aes-intl.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Iraq's illegal WMD sites were looted, Bush now explains
>> >
>> >You got that from The Onion, right?
>> >
>> No. He said it in his weekly (weakly?) speech last Saturday. I found the
>> quote in the Taipei Times.
>
>I know. But this is so bizarre you couldn't make it up if you had wanted
>to.
>
When I heard the radio speech I was reminded of John Lovitt's old sketch on
Saturday Night Live: "The sites were...ummm...looted. Yeah, that's the
ticket, they were looted." :-)
MEMIKI
>From: see...@for.real.addy (Victor Eijkhout)
>Date: 6/24/2003
>MEMIKI <mem...@aol.com> wrote:
You make me angry, Victor --
You ae looking at Goggle as your newsreader -- that is not my newsreader. On
my newsreader, it is not a new thread, but OT Political and grouped with over
300 other OT Political.....and it is not a new subject started by me.. This
particular subject about France was started by AggieCntryDncer -- after several
relating to this subject. I joined in to support her with my first post, which
said "Ditto". I agreed with AggieCntryDncr and we posted back and forth. Ed Jay
then joined in as he was the person to whom all the posts were directed.
When I answered Edward Yung's courteous post with the words, "I really want to
get away from this...." and you replied, "then why did you start this
thread".... even if I had started the thread.....how valuable or important a
contribution did you make?.....
Miki
Miki
Ed Jay
Now, now, kids, stop fighting or I'll have to ground you both.
Miki, you thought you were posting to the old thread. Instead of responding
to a post in that thread, you posted from scratch. In doing so, you
neglected the colon ':' in your header. IOW, the header for the old thread
is 'OT: Political' and yours is 'OT Political.' Technically, you started a
new thread. :-)
Victor, you knew that. :-)
Why do I always have to be the mediator? Why can't I participate in these
threads like everyone else? Sheesh! ;-)))
Julie K. Smith
stand with Victor, why did you start this stupid thread. Stop the politics,
we had agreed I thought. I'd go to France in a hot minute, never been
Julie K
"MEMIKI" <mem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030624211334...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Victor Eijkhout
> You ae looking at Goggle as your newsreader -- that is not my newsreader.
Neither is it mine. I was just looking for confirmation. I use MacSoup
which is scrupulously standards-conforming. Julie, who uses Outlook
Express, says that in her newsreader you also appear to start a new
thread. That's three against one.
> On
> my newsreader, it is not a new thread, but OT Political and grouped with over
> 300 other OT Political.....and it is not a new subject started by me..
Ah. Get your facts straight. A subject and a thread are not the same. I
told my newsreader to hide the "OT political" thread for me. Yet you pop
up. Why? Because you started a new thread, be it with an old subject
line.
> You make me angry, Victor --
You indulge far too much in negative emotions. Chill, sister. Go dancing
or something.
Oh, and I guess that apology I was asking for is probably too much to
hope for?
Bob Wheatley
news:skhjfvcp7pht6bdo0...@4ax.com...
Because you never neglect your colon.:>)
---
Bob Wheatley
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003
Ed Jay
>"Ed Jay" <ed...@aes-intl.com> wrote in message
>> Why do I always have to be the mediator? Why can't I participate in these
>> threads like everyone else? Sheesh! ;-)))
>>
>Because you never neglect your colon.:>)
>
You sound like my doctor. :-)
MEMIKI
>From: Ed Jay ed...@aes-intl.com
>Date: 6/25/2003
Thanks, Ed -- I had already marked the other posts to which I made my first
reply as "Read" and was too lazy to bring 'em back. I did not think any harm
would be caused by retyping the subject thread from memory and I guess I left
out the colon.
Technically is as good as intent and my intent was that my posts were in
response to other posts of similar nature. Poor Victor -- sad he was unable to
figure that out for himself -- particularly since I explained to him the proper
order of things.
Miki
Jerry C.
Your insinuations are startling. I responded to your post that started
this thread (yes you started this), not because I disagree with your
politics, but because the tone of your remarks to Ed were extremely
negative, not only ignorant about France (a non-anti-Semitic historical
ally and friend of Americans) but insulting to Ed personally. Then
below you respond that you like to hear positive responses rather than
negative ones. The insinuation being that people are unfairly
responding to you with negativism, when you in fact are extremely
negative and inciteful. A little self-reflection rather than
insinuation is called for. Backpedaling a bit and perhaps an apology to
Ed would stand you in a better light to many readers.
Jerry C.
---------------------------
MEMIKI
>From: see...@for.real.addy (Victor Eijkhout)
>Date: 6/25/2003
Grow up Victor or take out the hair curlers or do something more constructive.
I do not owe you an apology, nor do you deserve one for being such a big
curly-haired baby. (LOL "three against one")
Only a person of immaturity would take such a tantrum -- Ed explained to me in
another post that my leaving off a colon started a new thread. My intent was
not to start a new thread; the evidence itself was within the posts that I did
not intend to start a new thread; I, personally, explained the situation to you
that I did not intend to start a new thread -- either you were just not clever
enough to uderstand or you knew right along and were just being nasty and
sarcastic.
Technically, you may think you are correct; legally I definitely am correct. I
have the Proof of Intent!
Shame on you for making such a fuss over such a small thing.....it only makes
you smaller.
Don't call me sister! God Forbid!
Miki
MEMIKI
>Believe it or not, I'm a human who like other humans, responds to external
>stimuli. :-)
I, too, respond -- a sweet word, a small hug, a kind gesture, a pat on the
head........and I am your loyal friend. Hurt me three times and after that the
bond is broken.
>I've been to the former Soviet Union seven times. The first time the
>Vietnam War was underway. I remember the feeling of anxiety as the plane
>touched down in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg). As we left the airport for
>the dreaded commie abyss, the first sign of graffiti I saw was the peace
>symbol! That was the introduction to as fine a group of people as I've
>encountered. BTW, the Hermitage was fantastic...in many ways better than
>the Louvre. If you ever get the chance, visit it. The Pushkin was
>wonderful, but kind of a dreary place.
I am not as well-traveled as you, and I enjoy hearing your first-person
comments. I also enjoy seeing the "softer" side of Ed. Which museum do you
think -- L'Hermitage or Pushkin -- was so backward as to not have had
temperature-control or freight elevators back in the 70's? .
>>
<lotsa snips because previously addressed, miki)
>>>
Miki wrote:
.......I remember you postponed
>your
>>honeymoon and your plan was to eventually go to Paris. I would have enjoyed
>>hearing more about your honeymoon, and less about how the world dislikes us.
Ed wrote:
>
>I don't think the details of the honeymoon are fit for print. :-)) But,
>now that you ask...we couldn't have been blessed with better weather. Paris
>is as Paris has always been...wonderful with a pulse of life that I'm sure
>you can recall. The Louvre was great, but the Musee d'Orsay brought tears
>to our eyes it was so magnificent. The Dega, Cezanne and Van Gogh
>collections were the finest I've seen anywhere. We drove to Monet's home in
>Giverny and spent an afternoon in the most incredible garden I've
>experienced. Then came the castles in the Loire Valley. Mind blowing! We
>stayed in a 15th Century chateau in a tiny village (Noizay) near where
>Leonardo da Vinci lived. A fun and educational time all the way around.
>Unfortunately, the wines of the Loire aren't as extraordinary as those
>found in Bordeaux, but for $5/btl, who can complain. I'm bringing a few
>samples to Phoenix if you'd care to taste. :-)
It sounds like a wonderful honeymoon! My husband and I were married very young
-- I always said I wished we had waited two or three years before taking "the
honeymoon". Don't even ask!!!!!......but the real honeymoon lasted a very long
time and that's the important thing methinks.
Ed wrote:
>>
>Kewl. Now we can smile at each other in Phoenix. It's time for our
>bi-annual hug and pledge of forgiveness. :-)
How about smiling at each other over a glass of Loire wine?
Miki
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/25/2003 1:36 PM Pacific Standard Time
Miki wrote to Ed:
>Which museum do you
>think -- L'Hermitage or Pushkin -- was so backward as to not have had
>temperature-control or freight elevators back in the 70's? .
Apologies to Hermitage Museum -- after years of being a Museum, I turned them
into a restaurant......Miki
Ed Jay
>>Subject: Re: OT Political
>>From: Ed Jay ed...@aes-intl.com
>>Date: 6/24/2003
>
>>I've been to the former Soviet Union seven times...
>
>...Which museum do you
>think -- L'Hermitage or Pushkin -- was so backward as to not have had
>temperature-control or freight elevators back in the 70's? .
It had to be the Puskin in Moscow. No lifts, no air, poor lighting. As I
said, it was a dreary place. The Hermitage, on the other hand, is
considered a national treasure. It was very well lit, had air, and all of
the modern conveniences. Take a look at the virtual tour at
<http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/index.html>.
>>>
>It sounds like a wonderful honeymoon!
Twas, indeed. I agree with waiting to take the honeymoon, although our wait
wasn't entirely voluntary.
>
>Ed wrote:
>>>
>>Kewl. Now we can smile at each other in Phoenix. It's time for our
>>bi-annual hug and pledge of forgiveness. :-)
>
>How about smiling at each other over a glass of Loire wine?
>
I like your spirit(s). :-)
Ed Jay
Ah, yes, on La Cienega. I didn't even notice the apostrophe. :-) That was
a wonderful restaurant. Too bad it closed.
Ed Jay
The Senate Intelligence Committee is investigating whether intelligence
assessments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) were full of
honest or dishonest mistakes, or whether temperate CIA reports were hyped
by administration officials to gain support for the war.
<http://www.cato.org/dailys/06-22-03.html>
-------------------------------
Nomination for oxymoron of the new American century: :-)
<http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/bush.html>
MEMIKI
>>Miki wrote to Ed:
>>>Which museum do you
>>>think -- L'Hermitage or Pushkin -- was so backward as to not have had
>>>temperature-control or freight elevators back in the 70's? .
>>
>>Apologies to Hermitage Museum -- after years of being a Museum, I turned
>them
>>into a restaurant......Miki
>
>Ah, yes, on La Cienega. I didn't even notice the apostrophe. :-) That was
>a wonderful restaurant. Too bad it closed.
>
We loved that restaurant --
Miiki
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/25/2003
Miki wrote:
>>...Which museum do you
>>think -- The Hermitage or Pushkin -- was so backward as to not have had
>>temperature-control or freight elevators back in the 70's? .
>
>It had to be the Puskin in Moscow. No lifts, no air, poor lighting. As I
>said, it was a dreary place.
Then that must have been where the exhibit of works of American Artists was
sent -- no wonder the LACMA curators were so unhappy.
Take a look at the virtual tour at
><http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/index.html>.
>>>>
Thank you, I will -- already bookmarked.
Miki
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/24/2003
> Stop the politics,
>we had agreed I thought.
Is this remark intended just for me? or are you unaware that the major
political theme of the last two months is perpetuated by others who are far
more active in this scheme of this newsgroup than I am?
I have never known you to respond to a post of mine other than in an angry and
hysterical manner.
On April 13, 2003 I wrote my last post on the political subject of the war.
I did not write another political post until June 21, 2003, and it consisted of
one word, "Ditto" -- it was a reply to another post and it was related to
subject of travel in France.
>I'd go to France in a hot minute,
Go! Enjoy! You have my blessings! There is much to see! -- only please direct
your anger at those who are the major players in the political discussion and
who are the most active in politics.
Miki
Ed Jay
>>From: "Julie K. Smith" julie...@charter.net
>>Date: 6/24/2003
>
>> Stop the politics,
>>we had agreed I thought.
>
No, we all didn't agree. We are trying to keep it all in one thread,
"OT: Political." This new thread was started inadvertently.
Victor Eijkhout
> Technically, you may think you are correct;
Technically I *am* correct. Therefore you accused me falsely. Your
ignorance of the facts does not excuse the venom you spout.
> legally I definitely am correct.
In a legal sytem where you can successfully sue McDonald's for serving a
cup of hot coffee, that doesn't impress me too much.
Oh well. I wasn't really expecting an apology from you. It would be out
of character.
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/25/2003
>Technically I *am* correct. Therefore you accused me falsely. Your
>ignorance of the facts does not excuse the venom you spout.
>
Victor....YOU are the snake....
Miki
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/25/2003
>>>From: "Julie K. Smith" julie...@charter.net
>>>Date: 6/24/2003
>>
>>> Stop the politics,
>>>we had agreed I thought.
>>
>No, we all didn't agree. We are trying to keep it all in one thread,
>"OT: Political." This new thread was started inadvertently.
>
You're right, Ed -- but I did agree when Paul-Andre suggested it.......on the
condition others went along with it.
I think you counteracted the complaints of posters early on with the suggestion
of making a separate thread for off-topic. It did not finally come to pass
until the letters of complaint appeared in The Mighty Flyer and you suggested
it again. It works!
Miki
Victor Eijkhout
Mikkalai
I'm wondering: are there any English proverbs/sayings on men arguing with
women?
:mikkalai
''''
MEMIKI
>From: "Mikkalai" (mail,not mall dot com) mik...@hotmall.com
>Date: 6/25/2003
>I'm wondering: are there any English proverbs/sayings on men arguing with
>women?
Not a proverb, but this line from a song always worked in our household when
implemented by the person who started the argument --"Try a little tenderness"
with your words It works with men; it works with women.
Miki
Paul-Andre Panon
> Thanks, Ed -- I had already marked the other posts to which I made my first
> reply as "Read" and was too lazy to bring 'em back. I did not think any harm
> would be caused by retyping the subject thread from memory and I guess I left
> out the colon.
Hello Miki. FYI for next time, proper threaded news readers keep track
of threads not by the subject line but through header fields that are
not normally displayed. These fields are the References: and MessageID:
header lines.
For instance your post, that I am hereby replying to, contains in its
header:
References: <skhjfvcp7pht6bdo0...@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030625155558...@mb-m17.aol.com>
and Ed's parent post contains
References: <1fx37u3.1mt6v4tokrtzmN%see...@for.real.addy>
<20030625113025...@mb-m27.aol.com>
Message-ID: <skhjfvcp7pht6bdo0...@4ax.com>
The threading is established because your References: line
contains the value in Ed's Message-ID: line and your Message-ID:
line will show up in the References: line for my post. This linkage
is automatically established when you press the reply button to
somebody else's post (and is why a good news reader can keep track
of threads even when the Subject: line changes).
Even had you remembered to place a colon in the subject line, your
post would still have shown up as the start of a new thread for
many r.a.d readers.
>
>
> Technically is as good as intent and my intent was that my posts were in
> response to other posts of similar nature. Poor Victor -- sad he was unable to
> figure that out for himself -- particularly since I explained to him the proper
> order of things.
>
> Miki
Victor was reporting things as he saw them. While he was overzealous in
his approach and didn't take into account your possible innocent
ignorance of what was happening, he was correct in his assertion. You
may want to investigate some better newsreaders for reading r.a.d. I am
reasonably happy with the Mozilla news reader. Xnews and (Free) Agent
also have their adherents.
P-A
MEMIKI
>Date: 6/25/2003 11:09 PM
Yes, thank you -- I understand that now that you have explained..
>>
>>
>> Technically is as good as intent and my intent was that my posts were in
>> response to other posts of similar nature. Poor Victor -- sad he was
>unable to
>> figure that out for himself -- particularly since I explained to him the
>proper
>> order of things.
>>
>> Miki
>Victor was reporting things as he saw them. While he was overzealous in
>his approach and didn't take into account your possible innocent
>ignorance of what was happening, he was correct in his assertion. You
>may want to investigate some better newsreaders for reading r.a.d. I am
>reasonably happy with the Mozilla news reader. Xnews and (Free) Agent
>also have their adherents.
>
Not only was Victor overzealous, he was narrow visioned. He is a computer geek;
I am not. After I explained what happened and what my intent was, the sensible
thing would have been for him to back off -- it is to that I take exception.
Even more than that, why would Victor take a simple post response to Edward
Yung in which I wrote "Edward --- I do want to get away from this subject now,
but your post is courteous and deserves a reply" and expand these few words of
mine into an issue by posting to me "Then why on earth did you start this
thread?" I carefully explained the situation to Victor that was not my intent,
but he was already armed and taking aim, and I was his target.
His intent was not without malice. I believe this cancels any credit due him
for his "correct assertion", which could have been easily modified by plain
common sense.
Thank you for taking the time and patience to explain this to me. I am not a
newsgroup junkie -- the tech and auto forums where I participate are all
moderated, and they are quite nice to me as the only female on some of them.
Miki